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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation


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holy crap mike and mike read this threadHi mikes!!!!:hey:

:lmao:What did they say?
they made an "A few good men" referenceto really BE in this thread though theyn should make it again the next few days and act as if they just thought of it, maybe have some guests come on and make the same comment
I wonder if they'll point out the title of sandusky's book...
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My apologies to BroadwayG. I don't even know you, so my comment was out of line.

But your comments still disgust me.

Which one? That grand jury reports are not always 100% factual? That was the only comment I intended to make.

And apology accepted. I totally understand the rage people have in these situations.

Thank you. It's difficult for me to stay calm when I hear about stuff like this.
the acts are so disturbing it fires people up

and joepa is so revered he fires people up in his defense

it's a bad situation, and that had to play a part in the decision to fire him. This saturday's game could have turned REALLY ugly REALLY fast.

I hope Husker players and fans don't go too far either. I know college football gets emotions running high, and Paterno not being there may difuse some of it, but it's still volatile. IF a few husker players or fans go down the Pedo State line that some in this thread have things could get really bad.

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Let's just change one fact here and see how Joe's defenders handle it. Let's say one of Joe Paterno's coaches comes to his home and says he saw Joe's assistant coach fondling and having inappropiate sexual contact with Joe's 10-year old grandson

No, let's change all the facts of the case so we can really get angry here.

If it was his grandson then he could ask his grandson what happened and then report it to the police. If he witnessed the crime himself he could report to the police. If he had seen who the boy was he could have told the parents and let them call the police. If if if...play the if game all day long but at the end of the day he reported it to the person he should have reported it to and he did it immediately. We get it, he's jerk for not going the extra mile and calling a news conference to announce that he heard a rumor that his old assistant coach is a child molester and nobody is doing anything about it.

Rant over... I'll let you get back to playing 'let's change the facts'

He could have still done those things and without much effort. That's my point. You think Joe couldn't have called his good friend of over 40 years, or his good friend's wife to find out more. Yeah, definitely impossible for Joe to have found out more.
Okay so we are now accepting the fantasy as fact? The point is that he couldn't have done any of those things I mentioed above because that is not what happened. It wasn't his grandson and he didn't witness the crime.
You're right. Don't go to Joe Paterno if you witness a horrendous crime being committed at Penn State's football facilities. The man has no clout and can't do anything about it.

And no, I wasn't still talking fantasy. I was referring to the actual facts of the case. Paterno could have called Spanusky or his wife and easily found out who the boy is staying over.

Edited by jackdubl
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Unbelievable. Just announced that McQueary will be coaching on Saturday.

I have a hard time believing Penn State officials can be this dense.
Bradley just announced it at his press conference.
Penn State is putting on a staggering show of continued incompetence. It's quite stunning.
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Just disgusting :thumbdown: The more you keep him on the coaching staff the more you are justifying what people say that paterno was a scapegoat. McQueary and Paterno did the same thing and so far one of them was punished (deservedly so)

You can easily argue what McQueary did was worse. HE saw it first hand, he did nothing, and then when it appeared the university did nothing he stuck around to move up the ranks
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Unbelievable. Just announced that McQueary will be coaching on Saturday.

That's insane.
I don't know how this makes sense unless he was somehow forced to keep quiet about it by those above him and if that's the case it will come out eventually.
Forced to keep quiet? Is he a grown man?
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Leeroy Jenkins with some impressive denial here

What am I denying?Jerry Sandusky is a monster. He should not have been released on $100k bail. He should not be allowed to kill himself. He should be forced to face his victims and face the wall in prison repeatedly. The students should be outside of HIS house because HE is who has tarnished PSU and Paterno.Mike McQueary is a coward. He witnessed a child in the most vulnerable position possible. He did nothing. He could have stopped that act. That boy SAW him and he did NOTHING. That boy lost all hope that day that he could ever be saved. He sneaked to his office and picked up the phone, but instead of 911 he calls his DAD!?! Mike McQueary is beyond reprehensible. Tim Curly failed in his job as Athletic Director. He failed that little boy. He failed Penn State. He failed Mike McQueary. He failed Joe Paterno. If anybody was given the full details of 1998 AND the full story of what McQueary saw it was this man. Joe reported SOMEthing to Curly. Regardless of what Joe said to him, McQueary certainly gave the full detailed rendition at their meeting. Curly was legally responsible to report this to the authorities. Curly was morally responsible to report it to the authorities. Curly was responsible for the University to conduct a thorough investigation into the incident to identify that boy and whether there was an overarching issue with the football program and policies. Curly could have saved more children, but HE told the Second Mile that while there was a complaint that the university's non-existent investigation yielded NO WRONG DOING. Sandusky still had a flow of kids because CURLY blatantly lied to Second Mile. This man should be in jail. This man should have been fired, NOT on voluntary leave. His failure to act on several levels and his blatant lies are inexcusable.Joe Paterno failed that boy. He failed Penn State. And he failed himself. When the coward Mike McQueary came to his house, regardless of the details of what McQueary told him, Joe should have sat down and TOGETHER they should have called the police. That's what should have been done the previous night at a minimum and Joe Paterno should have recognized what the RIGHT thing to do was. I do not know what Mike McQueary told Joe. I just know that the grand jury and the DA believe whatever McQueary and Joe testified as to what their conversation contained. I do not know what Joe said he was going to do about the situation. I just know that Joe met with the AD who later interviewed McQueary and did nothing. What Joe knew about 2002, 1998, before, in between, and after is not clear. My defense of Joe Paterno is one regarding a rush to judgment and making assumptions based on little information regarding the program, what he knew and allowed regarding Sandusky, and what he actually (not theoretically) was responsible for. We do not know his relationships with people, what his role administratively has been since 1998, nor what the AD and others share with him. Joe deserves to be highly criticized. Joe should not represent Penn State and Penn State football saturday. But the criticism is so disproportionate to the actions of Sandusky, McQueary, and Curly, in my opinion, that I cannot help but go into lawyer and defense mode. If it comes out that Joe was aware of 1998 and that was why Sandusky was "retired" if it comes out that he knew Sandusky had these tendencies, that Joe knowingly allowed Sandusky to run rampant etc., then Joe deserves to be vilified.The manner and amount of vitriol being spewed towards Paterno and Penn State itself seems rather misplaced and smells of ulterior motives to me based on certain people in this thread. Not everybody.
All good except one little lie you slipped in there: Paterno testified under oath that McQueary told him that he witnessed Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy".And you wrote that what Joe knew in 2002 was unclear or "if it comes out" that Paterno "knew Sandusky had these tendencies, that Joe knowingly allowed Sandusky to run rampant" then Paterno deserves to be vilified. The above is willful denial of the actual facts by you--you either dont care what Paterno testified to under oath, or you think Paterno is a liar. Paterno testified under oath he was told by an eyewitness--who he must trust because he later promoted him repeatedly--of sexual abuse of a young boy at a PSU facility, he reported it, nothing happened and then Paterno repeatedly saw Sandusky over the years with young boys at PSU events, practices and games.PATERNO TESTIFIED HE KNEW AND THEN HE DID NOTHING ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR NOONE ELSE WAS DOING ANYTHING.
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Just disgusting :thumbdown: The more you keep him on the coaching staff the more you are justifying what people say that paterno was a scapegoat. McQueary and Paterno did the same thing and so far one of them was punished (deservedly so)

You can easily argue what McQueary did was worse. HE saw it first hand, he did nothing, and then when it appeared the university did nothing he stuck around to move up the ranks
I agree but if you are looking at it from the pro-Paterno side there argument has always been that he "followed protocol" and did nothing legally wrong. Well techncially McQueary did the exact same thing only slower and with more information and he is stayingdon't get me wrong they both should be gone in my opinion
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Not that we need another player in this whole big mess but don't you think Mrs. Sandusky had some suspicions at some point?

There are countless people who could've done more, her included. If you read the grand jury report, many of these assaults happened in their home, in their basement where Jerry would creep down at night and assault the kids. To think she had no knowledge of any wrongdoing is unfathomable to me.
I did, I think I was one of the first to post the report in this thread. It appears Sandusky set up his whole life to feed his desires. Now learning that he lives 1000ft from an elementary school his wife, to me anyhow, has to be the most blind person on earth or the queen of enablement.
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Definitely denial, no way you can't suspect something wrong with all the known variables.
She had to have known. But women are pragmatic. They'll even tolerate their husband being a pederast if it means she and her children are provided with a good living.
Yes, because all this thread needs is a random shot at women.
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Unbelievable. Just announced that McQueary will be coaching on Saturday.

That's insane.
I don't know how this makes sense unless he was somehow forced to keep quiet about it by those above him and if that's the case it will come out eventually.
even if they had a gun to his head and said they would kill all of his friends and family, McQueasy's actions are inexcusable
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Anyone who knew specifics and covered it up should be fired...period. But the vitriol for the "program" is badly misplaced. This incident has NOTHING to do with the football program, other than the fact that one or two of the people involved were coaches. Sandusky wasn't a part of the program at the time.

I disagree that this has nothing to do with the program.At the very least, there are two direct incidents that link with the program:1. The alleged 1998 incident happened while Sandusky was an active coach.2. The 2002 incident was allegedly seen by a graduate assistant at the time and occurred in the football showers. Sandusky had emeritus status, access to the facility, and even an office in the complex. He was not just a random citizen who ended up there.Another less tangible connection to the program is the disproportionate power, or at least huge presence, of the football program in the overall Penn State institutional infrastructure. It is clearly possible that if even a partial cover-up occurred, i.e. looking the other way, a deal with Sandusky to retire at a fairly early age, etc., it likely occurred to protect the image of the football program. It is possible to conclude that the welfare of the football program was valued higher than the welfare of the institution and/or the pursuit of justice. It also can be argued that the institution, the football program, and the money the football program provides are so tightly intertwined as to not be able to distinguish them from each other. It is possible to almost follow the potential twisted logic that may have been used by President Spanier, et al, to hope that this situation would quietly go away rather than harming all three: the football program, the institution, and the money. Other powerful institutions have already shown that it is possible for people in places of power to protect the institution rather than to pursue justice.
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Ok, just making sure you were aware the grand jury report is not the end all be all of the judicial process. You may carry on with the pitchforks and torches.

I don't give a damn about the judicial process. This isn't a legal issue to me, it's a moral issue. You protect children, you don't look the other way.
:goodposting: I heard a good analogy on M&M this morning. Much like the Marines in this clip, even if there was no legal obligation, there was a moral one where many people, including Paterno, failed.
Did you know Sandusky wrote...ahh nevermind. :wall:
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Unbelievable. Just announced that McQueary will be coaching on Saturday.

indefensiblewhatever godwill PSU gained by yesterday's ####cannings has been lost
I thought the same yesterday until the BOT stepped up and did the right thing last night. I fully expect there will be an announcement dismissing McQueary before Saturday's game as well.
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The manner and amount of vitriol being spewed towards Paterno and Penn State itself seems rather misplaced and smells of ulterior motives to me based on certain people in this thread. Not everybody.

I personally take no joy in seeing Paterno being fired but it was the only choice to make. He had to go to help save any shred of intergrity for PSU. There is a time and a place to reflect on what good JoePa did and honor that, but making the end of the season one last big hurrah or pep rally wasn't that time. Keeping him on would have made the school look like one big joke. And the kids cheering and rioting is misguided. I understand that they are emotional about Joe but it reflects poorly on them as individuals and a student body. I still think they need to fully clean house and put the program on at least a year or two death penalty. I am not an alum of PSU myself but my wife is and I live in PA and one day may send kids there. To me, I think PSU alums and students should be the most supportive of the move by the trustees because keeping JoePa around any longer was serving to harm the university more, and effectively cheapening their experiences and degrees. From a public perspective. I still think that PSU is a wonderful institution and can get past this in time if they take the right steps from here on out. Firing JoePa was, unfortunately, the key first step.
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Unbelievable. Just announced that McQueary will be coaching on Saturday.

indefensiblewhatever godwill PSU gained by yesterday's ####cannings has been lost
I thought the same yesterday until the BOT stepped up and did the right thing last night. I fully expect there will be an announcement dismissing McQueary before Saturday's game as well.
If that were the case I would think that Bradley would have been less certain about him being there on Saturday.
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My apologies to BroadwayG. I don't even know you, so my comment was out of line.

But your comments still disgust me.

Which one? That grand jury reports are not always 100% factual? That was the only comment I intended to make.

And apology accepted. I totally understand the rage people have in these situations.

Thank you. It's difficult for me to stay calm when I hear about stuff like this.
the acts are so disturbing it fires people up

and joepa is so revered he fires people up in his defense

it's a bad situation, and that had to play a part in the decision to fire him. This saturday's game could have turned REALLY ugly REALLY fast.

I hope Husker players and fans don't go too far either. I know college football gets emotions running high, and Paterno not being there may difuse some of it, but it's still volatile. IF a few husker players or fans go down the Pedo State line that some in this thread have things could get really bad.

Sal's dead. Go Big Red!

The Husker fans will take their shots.

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I have real issues with the grad student and janiter who actually saw terrible things happening to kids and didn't call the police! The biggest problem with these cases usually is it becomes the kids' word against the adults'. Here we have evidance and they didn't call the police. That's the thing that gets me. How can you see something like that and not immediatly call the police? I agree that Patterno and all the other people must go,there's no other way.

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Has this been mentioned? I just saw it

now i fear it is a "touched" (i am thinking "touched" could be the new "honda"....seems like there is potential)

1. Joe Paterno was offered the head coaching job of the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1969, three years after he took over at Penn State. The Rooney family reportedly offered Paterno $70,000 per season to make the jump to the NFL, far more than the $20,000 he was making in State College.

Paterno said he was close to taking the job but reconsidered after sleeping on it for a night. He told "Pittsburgh Steelers: The Complete Illustrated History:"

"It was an awful lot of money, a fantastic offer. I'd never dreamed of making that much money. Then I started thinking about what I wanted to do. I had put some things out of whack. I haven't done the job I set out to do at Penn State."

Pittsburgh eventually hired one of Don Shula's assistants from Baltimore. His name was Chuck Noll.

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I don't have the heart to read this whole thread as I've been a long time Penn State fan and actually was a student there for a couple of years.

Anyone who knew specifics and covered it up should be fired...period. But the vitriol for the "program" is badly misplaced. This incident has NOTHING to do with the football program, other than the fact that one or two of the people involved were coaches. Sandusky wasn't a part of the program at the time.

I realize you have a more vested interest in this than many others do, but I bolded the part that is part of the issue.

Sandusky was investigated for similar incidents WHEN HE WAS STILL A COACH in 1998. That led to his retirement, and if things play out as some reporters are suggesting, that was part of an agreement he made with the school to keep everything from coming out. Another part of the purported agreement is that he would not accept a coaching position anywhere. Sandusky had just been named the National Assistant Coach of the Year . . . and then he retires when he CERTAINLY could have been a leading candidate for head coaching and defensive coordinators all over the country, if not as the heir apparent to Paterno?

Even though he was no longer a coach and had "retired," he still kept an office in the football/sports complex, still attended practice with a certain degree of regularity, ran his foundation for young boys, ran football camps attended by young boys (IIRC at Penn State locations), and still used campus facilities and worked out there.

To add another layer to this, even after the 2002 now infamous shower incident, PSU officals and administrators STILL let all of that continue. The only thing (seemingly) that was asked of him was that he could no longer shower with boys and that if he wanted to hang out with boys to not do it at PSU.

Unfortunately for PSU and the powers that be there, the families of any boy that got abused after the college was awar of what was going on are going to get H-U-G-E payouts and/or civil suit awards with punative damages. Subsequent attacks could have been avoided if PSU brought everything to light at the time things happened . . . yet they didn't.

Legally/criminally, it's one thing to "report things to a superior," but it's another to let a predator to continue to operate under your watch and within your walls.

While Joe Pa was not the one committing the actual crimes and it was not truly a pandemic among the football program, a case certainly can (and will) be made that the football coaching staff, the sports program, and the administration were remiss in not notifying people that one of their brethren was a child molester and parents unknowingly enrolled their children in camps and programs without that knowledge that could have prevented additional illegal activities.

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Just disgusting :thumbdown: The more you keep him on the coaching staff the more you are justifying what people say that paterno was a scapegoat. McQueary and Paterno did the same thing and so far one of them was punished (deservedly so)

You can easily argue what McQueary did was worse. HE saw it first hand, he did nothing, and then when it appeared the university did nothing he stuck around to move up the ranks
I know what I would do if I saw something like this happening. Sadly, I don't know if I would have taken the hero route when I was 22. It is admittedly a situation I would not have been ready to handle.
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Let's just change one fact here and see how Joe's defenders handle it. Let's say one of Joe Paterno's coaches comes to his home and says he saw Joe's assistant coach fondling and having inappropiate sexual contact with Joe's 10-year old grandson

No, let's change all the facts of the case so we can really get angry here.

If it was his grandson then he could ask his grandson what happened and then report it to the police. If he witnessed the crime himself he could report to the police. If he had seen who the boy was he could have told the parents and let them call the police. If if if...play the if game all day long but at the end of the day he reported it to the person he should have reported it to and he did it immediately. We get it, he's jerk for not going the extra mile and calling a news conference to announce that he heard a rumor that his old assistant coach is a child molester and nobody is doing anything about it.

Rant over... I'll let you get back to playing 'let's change the facts'

He could have still done those things and without much effort. That's my point. You think Joe couldn't have called his good friend of over 40 years, or his good friend's wife to find out more. Yeah, definitely impossible for Joe to have found out more.
Okay so we are now accepting the fantasy as fact? The point is that he couldn't have done any of those things I mentioed above because that is not what happened. It wasn't his grandson and he didn't witness the crime.
You're right. Don't go to Joe Paterno if you witness a horrendous crime being committed at Penn State's football facilities. The man has no clout and can't do anything about it.

And no, I wasn't still talking fantasy. I was referring to the actual facts of the case. Paterno could have called Spanusky or his wife and easily found out who the boy is staying over.

Okay just for blanks and giggles. Please tell me what you (playing Joe Paterno) would do in this situation. I'm serious.

I'll play too. You come to me and tell me that you saw a man raping a kid and that instead of stopping it, you ran away and called your dad because you were so upset. I ask 'Did you call the police?' You say 'Nope'. I punch you in the face and drive you to the police station.

Of course I'm 80 years old and probably not in complete control of my faculties. So I probably take a less aggressive approach and make sure I tell my boss and his boss and let them know who exactly witnessed this crime.

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Just disgusting :thumbdown: The more you keep him on the coaching staff the more you are justifying what people say that paterno was a scapegoat. McQueary and Paterno did the same thing and so far one of them was punished (deservedly so)

You can easily argue what McQueary did was worse. HE saw it first hand, he did nothing, and then when it appeared the university did nothing he stuck around to move up the ranks
I know what I would do if I saw something like this happening. Sadly, I don't know if I would have taken the hero route when I was 22. It is admittedly a situation I would not have been ready to handle.
He was 28.
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Leeroy Jenkins with some impressive denial here

What am I denying?Jerry Sandusky is a monster. He should not have been released on $100k bail. He should not be allowed to kill himself. He should be forced to face his victims and face the wall in prison repeatedly. The students should be outside of HIS house because HE is who has tarnished PSU and Paterno.Mike McQueary is a coward. He witnessed a child in the most vulnerable position possible. He did nothing. He could have stopped that act. That boy SAW him and he did NOTHING. That boy lost all hope that day that he could ever be saved. He sneaked to his office and picked up the phone, but instead of 911 he calls his DAD!?! Mike McQueary is beyond reprehensible. Tim Curly failed in his job as Athletic Director. He failed that little boy. He failed Penn State. He failed Mike McQueary. He failed Joe Paterno. If anybody was given the full details of 1998 AND the full story of what McQueary saw it was this man. Joe reported SOMEthing to Curly. Regardless of what Joe said to him, McQueary certainly gave the full detailed rendition at their meeting. Curly was legally responsible to report this to the authorities. Curly was morally responsible to report it to the authorities. Curly was responsible for the University to conduct a thorough investigation into the incident to identify that boy and whether there was an overarching issue with the football program and policies. Curly could have saved more children, but HE told the Second Mile that while there was a complaint that the university's non-existent investigation yielded NO WRONG DOING. Sandusky still had a flow of kids because CURLY blatantly lied to Second Mile. This man should be in jail. This man should have been fired, NOT on voluntary leave. His failure to act on several levels and his blatant lies are inexcusable.Joe Paterno failed that boy. He failed Penn State. And he failed himself. When the coward Mike McQueary came to his house, regardless of the details of what McQueary told him, Joe should have sat down and TOGETHER they should have called the police. That's what should have been done the previous night at a minimum and Joe Paterno should have recognized what the RIGHT thing to do was. I do not know what Mike McQueary told Joe. I just know that the grand jury and the DA believe whatever McQueary and Joe testified as to what their conversation contained. I do not know what Joe said he was going to do about the situation. I just know that Joe met with the AD who later interviewed McQueary and did nothing. What Joe knew about 2002, 1998, before, in between, and after is not clear. My defense of Joe Paterno is one regarding a rush to judgment and making assumptions based on little information regarding the program, what he knew and allowed regarding Sandusky, and what he actually (not theoretically) was responsible for. We do not know his relationships with people, what his role administratively has been since 1998, nor what the AD and others share with him. Joe deserves to be highly criticized. Joe should not represent Penn State and Penn State football saturday. But the criticism is so disproportionate to the actions of Sandusky, McQueary, and Curly, in my opinion, that I cannot help but go into lawyer and defense mode. If it comes out that Joe was aware of 1998 and that was why Sandusky was "retired" if it comes out that he knew Sandusky had these tendencies, that Joe knowingly allowed Sandusky to run rampant etc., then Joe deserves to be vilified.The manner and amount of vitriol being spewed towards Paterno and Penn State itself seems rather misplaced and smells of ulterior motives to me based on certain people in this thread. Not everybody.
All good except one little lie you slipped in there: Paterno testified under oath that McQueary told him that he witnessed Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy".And you wrote that what Joe knew in 2002 was unclear or "if it comes out" that Paterno "knew Sandusky had these tendencies, that Joe knowingly allowed Sandusky to run rampant" then Paterno deserves to be vilified. The above is willful denial of the actual facts by you--you either dont care what Paterno testified to under oath, or you think Paterno is a liar. Paterno testified under oath he was told by an eyewitness--who he must trust because he later promoted him repeatedly--of sexual abuse of a young boy at a PSU facility, he reported it, nothing happened and then Paterno repeatedly saw Sandusky over the years with young boys at PSU events, practices and games.PATERNO TESTIFIED HE KNEW AND THEN HE DID NOTHING ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR NOONE ELSE WAS DOING ANYTHING.
What lie? The tendencies I am referring to are in regard to Joe's knowledge prior to 2002. I am not saying that McQueary didn't tell him about "fondling" or something of a "sexual nature" I am referring to whether McQueary gave full details or not and what fondling/sexual nature actually was described.Question, and this is hypothetical, if Joe reported to the AD whatever McQueary said and the AD said for Joe not to worry about it he would investigate it and do what needed to be done, and then the AD interviewed McQueary did an "investigation" and then told Joe (as he told Second Mile) that no wrong doing occurred, then why should Joe be concerned? I know, you will say that an EYE-WITNESS TOLD HIM, but maybe the AD tells Joe that McQueary didn't see what he thought he saw. Unless it comes out that some order was levied by Joe to sweep this under the rug, the more I think about it, the more Curly needs to rot.Because Curly and Shultz are charged with perjury right now, it is impossible to know what type of investigation (if any) actually occurred. The fact that they told Second Mile that there was no wrong doing really puts them at the forefront IMO.Something stinks in Denmark for sure. I just am not sure what it is just yet.
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Unbelievable. Just announced that McQueary will be coaching on Saturday.

I'm guessing that McQueary's situation just hasn't been addressed yet. Bradley has only been HC for 13 hours. There isn't an AD or a university president. Bradley is probably just waiting for Erickson or the trustees to TELL him how to proceed here.Lots of time left before Saturday, I'd be shocked if McQueary is coaching.
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The reality is that he did as much as any of us could do with what amounts to a rumor.

Oh bull####. You Paterno defenders are absurd.
The 2002 situation wasn't a rumor reported by a barely known associate or about some random staff member Joe barely knew. A heinous crime was described by a former football captain. (Or if you prefer, the former captain put together a few sentences involving a nearly 60 year old former coach, a 10 year old boy, the shower, and inappropriate sexual contact.) The alleged perpetrator was someone who Paterno had a 40 year relationship from the time Sandusky was a player and Paterno an assistant at Penn State. They coached together for over 30 years. One would at least hope that a little more could have been done.Perhaps more was done. It's clearly possible that more information will disseminate describing what Paterno did concerning Sandusky, but at this time based on what is supposedly known, it's hard to suggest Joe did anything more than the bare legal minimum. And given what happened to countless other children due to this apparent inaction, people are understandably upset. I've seen nothing to suggest Joe did anything criminal, but I've seen plenty to suggest -- at least at this time -- that Joe could have done much more. I'm not suggesting it would be easy to even mildly confront a longtime friend and associate, but with great power comes great responsibility, and it's reasonable to suggest Joe failed to meet his responsibility in this matter. Actually, I want to believe Joe when he says it is the deepest regret of his life. It should be. Edited by The Jerk
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The manner and amount of vitriol being spewed towards Paterno and Penn State itself seems rather misplaced and smells of ulterior motives to me based on certain people in this thread. Not everybody.

I personally take no joy in seeing Paterno being fired but it was the only choice to make. He had to go to help save any shred of intergrity for PSU. There is a time and a place to reflect on what good JoePa did and honor that, but making the end of the season one last big hurrah or pep rally wasn't that time. Keeping him on would have made the school look like one big joke. And the kids cheering and rioting is misguided. I understand that they are emotional about Joe but it reflects poorly on them as individuals and a student body. I still think they need to fully clean house and put the program on at least a year or two death penalty. I am not an alum of PSU myself but my wife is and I live in PA and one day may send kids there. To me, I think PSU alums and students should be the most supportive of the move by the trustees because keeping JoePa around any longer was serving to harm the university more, and effectively cheapening their experiences and degrees. From a public perspective. I still think that PSU is a wonderful institution and can get past this in time if they take the right steps from here on out. Firing JoePa was, unfortunately, the key first step.
I agree that he had to go. That isn't my argument at all.
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Leeroy Jenkins with some impressive denial here

What am I denying?

Jerry Sandusky is a monster. He should not have been released on $100k bail. He should not be allowed to kill himself. He should be forced to face his victims and face the wall in prison repeatedly. The students should be outside of HIS house because HE is who has tarnished PSU and Paterno.

Mike McQueary is a coward. He witnessed a child in the most vulnerable position possible. He did nothing. He could have stopped that act. That boy SAW him and he did NOTHING. That boy lost all hope that day that he could ever be saved. He sneaked to his office and picked up the phone, but instead of 911 he calls his DAD!?! Mike McQueary is beyond reprehensible.

Tim Curly failed in his job as Athletic Director. He failed that little boy. He failed Penn State. He failed Mike McQueary. He failed Joe Paterno. If anybody was given the full details of 1998 AND the full story of what McQueary saw it was this man. Joe reported SOMEthing to Curly. Regardless of what Joe said to him, McQueary certainly gave the full detailed rendition at their meeting. Curly was legally responsible to report this to the authorities. Curly was morally responsible to report it to the authorities. Curly was responsible for the University to conduct a thorough investigation into the incident to identify that boy and whether there was an overarching issue with the football program and policies. Curly could have saved more children, but HE told the Second Mile that while there was a complaint that the university's non-existent investigation yielded NO WRONG DOING. Sandusky still had a flow of kids because CURLY blatantly lied to Second Mile. This man should be in jail. This man should have been fired, NOT on voluntary leave. His failure to act on several levels and his blatant lies are inexcusable.

Joe Paterno failed that boy. He failed Penn State. And he failed himself. When the coward Mike McQueary came to his house, regardless of the details of what McQueary told him, Joe should have sat down and TOGETHER they should have called the police. That's what should have been done the previous night at a minimum and Joe Paterno should have recognized what the RIGHT thing to do was. I do not know what Mike McQueary told Joe. I just know that the grand jury and the DA believe whatever McQueary and Joe testified as to what their conversation contained. I do not know what Joe said he was going to do about the situation. I just know that Joe met with the AD who later interviewed McQueary and did nothing. What Joe knew about 2002, 1998, before, in between, and after is not clear. My defense of Joe Paterno is one regarding a rush to judgment and making assumptions based on little information regarding the program, what he knew and allowed regarding Sandusky, and what he actually (not theoretically) was responsible for. We do not know his relationships with people, what his role administratively has been since 1998, nor what the AD and others share with him. Joe deserves to be highly criticized. Joe should not represent Penn State and Penn State football saturday. But the criticism is so disproportionate to the actions of Sandusky, McQueary, and Curly, in my opinion, that I cannot help but go into lawyer and defense mode. If it comes out that Joe was aware of 1998 and that was why Sandusky was "retired" if it comes out that he knew Sandusky had these tendencies, that Joe knowingly allowed Sandusky to run rampant etc., then Joe deserves to be vilified.

The manner and amount of vitriol being spewed towards Paterno and Penn State itself seems rather misplaced and smells of ulterior motives to me based on certain people in this thread. Not everybody.

All good except one little lie you slipped in there: Paterno testified under oath that McQueary told him that he witnessed Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy".

And you wrote that what Joe knew in 2002 was unclear or "if it comes out" that Paterno "knew Sandusky had these tendencies, that Joe knowingly allowed Sandusky to run rampant" then Paterno deserves to be vilified.

The above is willful denial of the actual facts by you--you either dont care what Paterno testified to under oath, or you think Paterno is a liar.

Paterno testified under oath he was told by an eyewitness--who he must trust because he later promoted him repeatedly--of sexual abuse of a young boy at a PSU facility, he reported it, nothing happened and then Paterno repeatedly saw Sandusky over the years with young boys at PSU events, practices and games.

PATERNO TESTIFIED HE KNEW AND THEN HE DID NOTHING ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR NOONE ELSE WAS DOING ANYTHING.

What lie? The tendencies I am referring to are in regard to Joe's knowledge prior to 2002. I am not saying that McQueary didn't tell him about "fondling" or something of a "sexual nature" I am referring to whether McQueary gave full details or not and what fondling/sexual nature actually was described.

Question, and this is hypothetical, if Joe reported to the AD whatever McQueary said and the AD said for Joe not to worry about it he would investigate it and do what needed to be done, and then the AD interviewed McQueary did an "investigation" and then told Joe (as he told Second Mile) that no wrong doing occurred, then why should Joe be concerned? I know, you will say that an EYE-WITNESS TOLD HIM, but maybe the AD tells Joe that McQueary didn't see what he thought he saw. Unless it comes out that some order was levied by Joe to sweep this under the rug, the more I think about it, the more Curly needs to rot.

Because Curly and Shultz are charged with perjury right now, it is impossible to know what type of investigation (if any) actually occurred. The fact that they told Second Mile that there was no wrong doing really puts them at the forefront IMO.

Something stinks in Denmark for sure. I just am not sure what it is just yet.

Because it would mean that someone in his staff, McQueary, lied about witnessing sexual abuse. One would think in this case McQueary would quickly fall from favor at very least, and probably be run out of PSU. Instead he enjoyed a meteoric rise to the top.

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Just disgusting :thumbdown: The more you keep him on the coaching staff the more you are justifying what people say that paterno was a scapegoat. McQueary and Paterno did the same thing and so far one of them was punished (deservedly so)

You can easily argue what McQueary did was worse. HE saw it first hand, he did nothing, and then when it appeared the university did nothing he stuck around to move up the ranks
I know what I would do if I saw something like this happening. Sadly, I don't know if I would have taken the hero route when I was 22. It is admittedly a situation I would not have been ready to handle.
he was 28
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Second Mile is not affiliated with Penn State

No, not at all. They just had an office at Penn State, free use of the facilities, free tickets to games, and permission to have sleepover camps with little boys on campus.
Second Mile had this, or Sandusky personally?
dude.....
Eventually it will make a difference to Second Mile itself what they are liable for and what was Sandusky personally. From a lawsuit perspective.
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Let's just change one fact here and see how Joe's defenders handle it. Let's say one of Joe Paterno's coaches comes to his home and says he saw Joe's assistant coach fondling and having inappropiate sexual contact with Joe's 10-year old grandson

No, let's change all the facts of the case so we can really get angry here.

If it was his grandson then he could ask his grandson what happened and then report it to the police. If he witnessed the crime himself he could report to the police. If he had seen who the boy was he could have told the parents and let them call the police. If if if...play the if game all day long but at the end of the day he reported it to the person he should have reported it to and he did it immediately. We get it, he's jerk for not going the extra mile and calling a news conference to announce that he heard a rumor that his old assistant coach is a child molester and nobody is doing anything about it.

Rant over... I'll let you get back to playing 'let's change the facts'

He could have still done those things and without much effort. That's my point. You think Joe couldn't have called his good friend of over 40 years, or his good friend's wife to find out more. Yeah, definitely impossible for Joe to have found out more.
Okay so we are now accepting the fantasy as fact? The point is that he couldn't have done any of those things I mentioed above because that is not what happened. It wasn't his grandson and he didn't witness the crime.
You're right. Don't go to Joe Paterno if you witness a horrendous crime being committed at Penn State's football facilities. The man has no clout and can't do anything about it.

And no, I wasn't still talking fantasy. I was referring to the actual facts of the case. Paterno could have called Spanusky or his wife and easily found out who the boy is staying over.

Okay just for blanks and giggles. Please tell me what you (playing Joe Paterno) would do in this situation. I'm serious.

I'll play too. You come to me and tell me that you saw a man raping a kid and that instead of stopping it, you ran away and called your dad because you were so upset. I ask 'Did you call the police?' You say 'Nope'. I punch you in the face and drive you to the police station.

Of course I'm 80 years old and probably not in complete control of my faculties. So I probably take a less aggressive approach and make sure I tell my boss and his boss and let them know who exactly witnessed this crime.

I'll be as clear as I can be. If I'm the witness, I call the police. No questions asked. If I'm Paterno, I try to find out more, either by confronting Spanusky or his wife. That's out of courtesy to a long-time friend, by the way. I tell the witness that he MUST make a statement to police if that's what he saw. That's the bare minimum. Honestly, what other actions are there to take?

What it sounds like Paterno did, instead, was say "Well, don't go to the police. We'll handle this in house." He certainly didn't advise his assistant to go to the police, or he would have. The only reasons to tell your boss instead of the police is either you don't want an investigation or you don't know if you want an investigation. Period.

Would you have done different than that?

Edited by jackdubl
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