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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation


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Notwithstanding your reply above, I'd like to ask you if you think that the inference that the Grand Jury is biased in favor of Paterno is relevant or not? I'd submit that it is relevant in the discussion because of the use of the Grand Jury report as the closest-version-of-fact that we have by the witnesses themselves, the attorneys involved and the media. When someone quotes it, they are usually wise enough to say "if these allegations are true...then...(fill in the blank for their conclusion)". But those that cite the report never qualify it as a potentially personally biased source. If it is, then the report should not be used as a weapon in defense or not of Paterno and others as it has been. And I'd submit that there are indications that it is "personally biased" (my term).

Regarding that specific point, I just don't think it's about JoePA. Oh, it is, it's his program, and this is probably the thing that brings him down (or makes for a convenient exit point). But he did what the law required him to do, which is bring it to his superiors attention. Once he did that, the responsibility and the legal obligation shifted.

ASIDE - we all have opinions on whether he did enough, and that's another debate. Personally I think he failed miserably as a human being, but that's not the relevant legal question.

So I don't think it's relevant because I think from a strict legal interpretation, JoePA is in the clear.

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They all need to be terminated and prosecuted including JoePa and President Spanier. There is no "horseplay" or misinterpretation. The GA and his Dad informed Paterno.

They all agreed to let Sandusky stay on in a full access position. They all knew he was raping boys. They thought they could get away with it and explain it away if they had to. Wrong.

Spanier said "troubling?" JoePa was "shocked?" Huh? They must've known it wasn't reported to police otherwise they would've been interviewed in the investigation, Sandusky would've been banned and in jail, etc.

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Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."

Sandusky was not an employee, but he did have emeritus status. What does that mean? An office at the football facilities, a desk, a phone, an internet account through Penn State, a parking pass, keys to all the football facilities, welcome to attend any practice or event. Much of the sexual abuse took place in the showers at the football facility. Some of took place at a golf resort hotel the team stayed the night before every home game. He ate meals with the team just as he did when he was an assistant. He and anyone in his household were given free tuition to any courses.Regardless of his official title, his retirement package from Penn State guaranteed him the same access and prestige - and probably even more of the latter - that he enjoyed when he was the DC.
The lawyer is talking about Schultz, not Sandusky. His argument is that Schultz is a PSU employee and the child was a Second Mile child, not a PSU child.
Well, I'm sure if this had happened at a high school football camp held on the campus of Penn State, that wouldn't fly. Seems pretty flimsy.I think the lawyers are just throwing crap at the wall to see what will stick. The goal is to obfuscate.
Which is why so many people hate lawyers.
Until it's their butt in the sling.
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Regarding that specific point, I just don't think it's about JoePA. Oh, it is, it's his program, and this is probably the thing that brings him down (or makes for a convenient exit point). But he did what the law required him to do, which is bring it to his superiors attention. Once he did that, the responsibility and the legal obligation shifted.

But here's the thing:

McQueary told the grand jury that he reported a sexual assault to Paterno. But Paterno apparently described it as just "horsing around". And Curley (AD), Schultz (VP in charge of campus police) and Spanier (university president) have ALL described it the same way -- "horsing around".

So then the question becomes: at what point was the description changed from "sexual assault" to "horsing around"? Did Paterno start that ball rolling?

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Regarding that specific point, I just don't think it's about JoePA. Oh, it is, it's his program, and this is probably the thing that brings him down (or makes for a convenient exit point). But he did what the law required him to do, which is bring it to his superiors attention. Once he did that, the responsibility and the legal obligation shifted.

But here's the thing:

McQueary told the grand jury that he reported a sexual assault to Paterno. But Paterno apparently described it as just "horsing around". And Curley (AD), Schultz (VP in charge of campus police) and Spanier (university president) have ALL described it the same way -- "horsing around".

So then the question becomes: at what point was the description changed from "sexual assault" to "horsing around"? Did Paterno start that ball rolling?

No, though it appears he was perhaps less graphic or explicit than he should have been. He said "in the showers...fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

The Grand Jury asked Curley point blank if the GA reported anal sex between Sandusky and the child. He said no, absolutely not, twice. And for that he is being charged with perjury - the Grand Jury concluded the GA was credible, and that Curley made material misstatements. Similarly, Schultz was vague in remembering the meeting with the GA, and thought it was "not that serious", that the report was about inappropriate sexual behavior by Sandusky but no crime was committed. Again, the Grand Jury concluded Schultz made material misstatements, he too was indicted for perjury.

That's the crux of it. Regardless if JoePA called it fondling or ###-rape, the GA made it clear ten days later. The Grand Jury concluded the GA was credible, and the university officials were not credible.

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Oh yeah and #### the lawyer for these guys too.

What do you want his lawyer to do?
Kill himself.
I'm pretty sure we'll find you tapping your feet in bathroom stalls next, big guy.
You're comparing homosexuality to child rape? And calling someone gay as an insult? Awesome.Love it how everyone is rushing to defend the guy trying to keep the child rapist on the street. What kind of human decides he' s going to help people get away with rape as his profession.
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Oh yeah and #### the lawyer for these guys too.

What do you want his lawyer to do?
Kill himself.
I'm pretty sure we'll find you tapping your feet in bathroom stalls next, big guy.
You're comparing homosexuality to child rape? And calling someone gay as an insult? Awesome.Love it how everyone is rushing to defend the guy trying to keep the child rapist on the street. What kind of human decides he' s going to help people get away with rape as his profession.
Nope, I just think you protest too much.
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Sunday night, Penn State annnounced athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz have stepped down amid allegations of an explosive child-sex abuse scandal and cover-up.

And while the pair will not survive the scandal, it is believed Penn State football icon Joe Paterno probably adhered to the letter of the law when he told the school’s athletic director - but not the police - that former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky allegedly sexually abused a boy in the Nittany Lions’ locker room in 2002.

But attorneys familiar with child abuse statutes say that while the venerable college coach may not face criminal charges, he is hardly an innocent bystander.

“I don’t think Joe Paterno is in trouble,” Cardozo School of Law professor Marci Hamilton told the Daily News on Sunday. “But the bigger problem is the number of people who knew about it and covered it up.

“It is hard to argue that Paterno didn’t have some responsibility, especially since he did not receive a report of abuse but an account from an actual eyewitness,” she added. “For him to take such a non-aggressive approach, and for him to allow Sandusky to remain part of the program, is troubling.”

Boston attorney Mitchell Garabedian, who has represented hundreds of victims abused by Catholic priests, said Paterno’s failure to report the allegations to police allowed Sandusky to molest children for an additional seven years.

“After learning that school officials were not reporting the matter to police, Joe Paterno should have reported it himself, Garabedian said. “It is simply common - and ethical and moral - sense. My experience in child abuse cases shows that predators don’t stop until they are caught.”

Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly said on Saturday that Sandusky, who worked with at-risk kids through his Second Mile charity, abused or made sexual advances on eight boys between 1994 and 2009. Sandusky, 67, a defensive wiz once considered a potential successor to the 84-year-old Paterno, was charged Friday with 40 counts of sexual abuse-related charges. He could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted .

Penn State athletic director Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, the school’s vice president for finance and business, were charged with perjury and failure to report the allegations. Curley and Schultz face up to seven years in prison if convicted.

In 2002, according to a grand jury report, a graduate assistant saw Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the locker room shower of the Lasch Football Building on the Penn State campus. The grad assistant, identified in media accounts as current Penn State wide receivers coach and recruiting coordinator Mike McQueary, and his father reported the incident to Paterno, who immediately told Curley about the allegation.

Pennsylvania law requires anyone who in the course of his or her employment who comes into contact with children to report evidence of abuse to “appropriate authorities.” Failure to do so is a third-degree misdemeanor.

The statute specifically lists teachers, nurses, doctors and child-care workers, among others, as those required to notify authorities when they suspect children in their care have been molested.

Paterno apparently followed the letter of the law by telling Curley about what McQueary had witnessed. But if Paterno had notified law-enforcement officials once it became clear university officials had not shared the allegation with police, Sandusky may have been arrested, sparing at least one of the boys whose abuse was detailed in the grand jury report.

The report said “Victim 1” first met Sandusky in 2005 or 2006 through Second Mile, the charity Sandusky established for at-risk kids.

“Victim 1 testified that ultimately Sandusky performed oral sex on him more than 20 times through 2007 and early 2008,” the grand jury report said. “Sandusky also had Victim 1 perform oral sex on him one time and also touched Victim 1’s penis with his hands during the 2007-2008 time period.”

The report also indicates that Paterno and top Penn State officials knew, or should have known, that Sandusky was possibly a sexual predator much sooner than 2002. The mother of “Victim 6” notified Penn State police in 1998 after Sandusky forced the boy, then 11, to shower with him in a university locker room, the filing said.

“After a lengthy investigation by University Police Detective Ronald Shreffler, the investigation was closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges,” the report said.

“Victim 4,” a boy who the grand jury report said spent a lot of time with the defensive coordinator — and was “repeatedly subjected to Involuntary Deviate Sexual Intercourse and Indecent Assault at the hands of Sandusky” - testified that Sandusky was visibly upset after Paterno told him in May 1999 that he would never be the head coach at Penn State. Sandusky retired not long after that meeting; it is unclear if Paterno told him that he would not be his successor because of the sexual abuse investigation or for other reasons.

But this much is clear, according to the grand jury report: Paterno and other Penn State officials continued to give Sandusky full access to university facilities for years after the 1998 investigation.

In 2000, a Penn State janitor named Jim Calhoun told other members of the custodial staff that he had witnessed Sandusky pinning a boy against the wall of a locker room shower and performing oral sex on him. Another janitor, Ronald Petrosky, saw Sandusky exit the locker room with the boy. The custodial staff, the grand jury report said, was afraid to file a report about the incident because the janitors feared they would lose their jobs. Calhoun did notify his supervisor about what he witnessed but did not file a formal report.

In the grand jury report, Calhoun, who had served in the Korean War, was described as distraught by what he had seen, and was crying when he talked to co-workers about the incident. The co-workers feared he would have a heart attack as he described what he had witnessed. He now suffers from dementia and is a nursing home and could not testify to the grand jury about the events. But according to the report, Calhoun said after witnessing the incident that he had “fought in the (Korean) war . . . seen people with their guts blowed out, arms dismembered . . . I just witnessed something in there I’ll never forget.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/penn-state-ad-tim-curley-vp-gary-schultz-step-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-scandal-cover-up-article-1.973110#ixzz1czkR3ccl

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That part about the janitor breaks my heart. :(

If you back and read the GJ presentment, there is a paragraph about what happened after Sandusky left. IIRC the janitors observed him in his car late that night. Then they saw him drive by the facility twice, I think once around 11 pm, and again around 2 am (roughly - I might have the times wrong, but he kept coming around). It's pretty obvious from reading the report Sandusky knew they had probably seen him. He didn't come back inside and get in a shouting match or anything, but he clearly (I think) was trying to intimidate those guys from reporting what they saw. And it worked, the guy who saw it was a temporary worker, and his boss never filed a report. That's how predators keep going, because they are allowed. They won't stop until they are caught.
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Paterno, 84, told Curley about what McQueary witnessed, but said in his statement that he was never told the specifics of what McQueary saw.

This is the statement, in full:

"If true, the nature and amount of charges made are very shocking to me and all Penn Staters. While I did what I was supposed to with the one charge brought to my attention, like anyone else involved I can't help but be deeply saddened these matters are alleged to have occurred.

"Sue and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential. The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers.

"As my grand jury testimony stated, I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators.

"I understand that people are upset and angry, but let's be fair and let the legal process unfold. In the meantime I would ask all Penn Staters to continue to trust in what that name represents, continue to pursue their lives every day with high ideals and not let these events shake their beliefs nor who they are."

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Sickening. Throw the book at him, and at everyone involved in the cover up. How JoePa could associate with let alone work with somebody who was a child rapist is mind boggling. He's not innocent here.

On another note, this happens all the time. I'm suspicious anytime I see adult males get too close to kids. Sleep overs, gifts, trips, etc. Huge red flag. Maybe innocent, but prove me wrong. And this is from a guy who coached baseball 20 years. I've seen it time and time again where supposed pillars of the community get busted for child related porn, sexual conduct, etc. People - keep your eyes and ears open.

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Paterno, 84, told Curley about what McQueary witnessed, but said in his statement that he was never told the specifics of what McQueary saw.This is the statement, in full:"If true, the nature and amount of charges made are very shocking to me and all Penn Staters. While I did what I was supposed to with the one charge brought to my attention, like anyone else involved I can't help but be deeply saddened these matters are alleged to have occurred."Sue and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential. The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers."As my grand jury testimony stated, I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators."I understand that people are upset and angry, but let's be fair and let the legal process unfold. In the meantime I would ask all Penn Staters to continue to trust in what that name represents, continue to pursue their lives every day with high ideals and not let these events shake their beliefs nor who they are."

Starting to feel more like Aaron is about the whole thing...let's see if we can cut thru the BS here because it seems to be mounting and I have tried hard to keep an open mind towards JoePa."If true"...really leaning on the crutch of everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. He then starts to say he only knew of "One" incident...isn't one enough? "Sue and I"...he basically is asking people to look at all the good he has done and his track record over the many years. Then he is lumping all these other people into the category of "None of these people did anything about it either" to justify his actions. "he at no time related specifics"...but yet Joe Pa went and told the higher ups what? Ahhhh this GA says that Sandusky did ahhhhh something ahhhhh something ahhhhh something bad. Ad responds "Ok Joe, we'll check it out"...this is all bull#### at this point. The press should eat him alive over this. Someone is lying big time here. "Let's be fair"...he actually is trying to make the folks like Aaron for example out to be the bad guys because they are up in arms and jumping all over him. There are plenty of others in this thread, just using Aaron because of his work in the field.Wow, this could really tarnish JoePa for eternity. He is going to have to step down after the season if not sooner. I'm shocked he didn't retire a while back when he knew this would eventually get out. And the GA...why is he still with the team? It just begs for more examination. Did he use the event to further his career? Did PSU advance him to shut him up? Why would he want to be at PSU after he was scarred so badly?
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Sickening. Throw the book at him, and at everyone involved in the cover up. How JoePa could associate with let alone work with somebody who was a child rapist is mind boggling. He's not innocent here.

On another note, this happens all the time. I'm suspicious anytime I see adult males get too close to kids. Sleep overs, gifts, trips, etc. Huge red flag. Maybe innocent, but prove me wrong. And this is from a guy who coached baseball 20 years. I've seen it time and time again where supposed pillars of the community get busted for child related porn, sexual conduct, etc. People - keep your eyes and ears open.

Absolutely :goodposting:

Sports camps, VBS, apple picking. Never assume anything - or assume the worst and do your due diligence, check things out, ask questions. I know I've offended coaches and teachers over the years, but if my son is going off-campus for anything and I can't be there, I want to know every detail of the logistics. I don't care if I'm being a PITA.

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Just heard on sports radio that the DA's office is announcing that Paterno has agreed to testify against Sandusky.

Is hearsay admissible or did he know more than what is being reported? I don't know what he does for the case that the GA doesn't provide already - other than trying to save what is left of his image.
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so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.

Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
I realize it's how some people behave. It's the defending of that behavior that's bull####.This was not an isolated incident. There were at least 8 victims in a pattern of behavior that went on for 15 years. Paterno and everyone else involved in this fiasco had reason to believe that boys lives were being destroyed and they sat by and did nothing. No amount of, "Yeah, but look what THAT guy did" can ever justify their inaction.
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
Christianity was around long before the Catholic Church, but why let facts get in the way at this point?
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so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.

Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
I realize it's how some people behave. It's the defending of that behavior that's bull####.This was not an isolated incident. There were at least 8 victims in a pattern of behavior that went on for 15 years. Paterno and everyone else involved in this fiasco had reason to believe that boys lives were being destroyed and they sat by and did nothing. No amount of, "Yeah, but look what THAT guy did" can ever justify their inaction.
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
Christianity was around long before the Catholic Church, but why let facts get in the way at this point?
Ok, so now I'm confused. Which one goes on the high part of the medal podium? Also, can we get back to talking about a child molester that a university football program with a squeaky clean image managed to protect for more than a decade?
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For anyone defending Paterno is any form:

Someone on his staff goes to him and tells him he witnessed his friend and long time DC having inappropriate contact with a young boy who appeared to be 10 or so in the shower....he does not ask what was actually witnessed? He has no idea what actually happened but he considers it serious enough to report it to the AD? Is that what we are being asked to believe here?

By his own admission he was told of this inappropriate conduct in 2002, but yesterday he is shocked?

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For anyone defending Paterno is any form:Someone on his staff goes to him and tells him he witnessed his friend and long time DC having inappropriate contact with a young boy who appeared to be 10 or so in the shower....he does not ask what was actually witnessed? He has no idea what actually happened but he considers it serious enough to report it to the AD? Is that what we are being asked to believe here?By his own admission he was told of this inappropriate conduct in 2002, but yesterday he is shocked?

I interpret that as shock to the extent/number of victims and perhaps because nothing happened since Joe told the AD etc maybe he thought that was it. I can see McQuery not going into full detail to Joe. I imagine that would be an awkward situation/conversation for mcquery to have with an 80yr old man you look up to. Joe reported whatever McQuery told him to who he was supposed to. The AD interviewed mcquery so he should have gotten the full details then.
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How much media attention is this getting on mainstream outlets?

a significant amount. this is a huge story.
I am a little surprised that this has not been the lead story on espn.com. Seems like it has been buried most of the weekend, and "hidden" with headlines referring to the AD, and not the primary scandal of Sandusky, and how it may relate to Paterno.
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You can't just blow up the season right now though.(being 8-1)

Maybe the season just needs to hit the showers.
For the season's sake, it should just go home dirty. Penn State showers are not a safe place for a season so young.
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I have Joe Pa signed memorabilia all over my basement and it came down yesterday. IMO as soon as you hear an under aged child was in a Penn St. shower room with ANYONE associated with school its up to Joe to make a stink about it. It boggles my mind that this can just be passed over and he could sleep at night, it sickens me.

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I have Joe Pa signed memorabilia all over my basement and it came down yesterday. IMO as soon as you hear an under aged child was in a Penn St. shower room with ANYONE associated with school its up to Joe to make a stink about it. It boggles my mind that this can just be passed over and he could sleep at night, it sickens me.

Paterno probably take a piss 6 times a night. I bet he sleeps horribly.
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Paterno is scum, too.

Aren't you and a lot of people jumping to conclusions here? I agree that IF all of the facts being reported now are true, and IF there are no other facts that might mitigate Paterno's actions (or lack of actions in this case) then it's difficult to reach any conclusion other than the one you've drawn. But how often does it happen that the whole truth is always what we first think it is? I say almost never. Everyone is in such a rush to judgment. If Joe Paterno is truly guilty of helping to conceal these horrible crimes, then we'll know soon enough. But for now I suggest it's best to take a deep breath and wait for all the facts to come out, and to withhold judgment until they do.
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I have Joe Pa signed memorabilia all over my basement and it came down yesterday. IMO as soon as you hear an under aged child was in a Penn St. shower room with ANYONE associated with school its up to Joe to make a stink about it. It boggles my mind that this can just be passed over and he could sleep at night, it sickens me.

Paterno probably take a piss 6 times a night. I bet he sleeps horribly.
Good stuff here.
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PSU alum, and former Second Mile volunteer here.

I heard an interesting spin on this on the radio this morning.

1) Sandusky was not on JoePa's staff at the time of the allegations, which means he was NOT a direct report to JoePa, thus JoePa couldn't "fire him," or whatever.

2) Sandusky and JoePa are clearly good friends.

3) Given this, and the potential conflict of interest that could've arisen given their friendship, JoePa reported this to the AD, which was likley the outlined course of action.

4) The problem was that despite reporting this, Curley didnt' do anything about it.

Now the negatives for JoePa

1) At what point did the graphic description given by McQueary become "horsing around?" If JoePa was the one who made that restatement, that's very bad.

2) You'd think he would've followed up, but admittedly there was no legal obligation to do so. Further, perhaps he did...I'm not saying that taking the "It's been dealt with" response is right, but at what point do you step out of what is a sticky situation?

I think that while a lot of this finger pointing at JoePa is certainly understandable, if it WASN'T Paterno in question, this would be 100% about Sandusky, and possibly Curley, etc. In reality, the non-Paterno headline would've read, "Former DC accused of child molestation." Because in reality he had no professional link to Paterno at the time. But because America loves witch hunts and tearing down idols, Joe Pa inevitably gets pulled in.

It's just a crappy crappy situation. I personally (and as a PSU alum) hope that Sandusky's...I can't even think of how I'd describe how horrid this is or think of a word for it, so I'll just use "actions," bring down the JoePa legacy, because how he handled this situation shouldn't define his legacy.

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