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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (2 Viewers)

Why Joe Paterno Didn't Call the Police

article doesn't really focus on Paterno so not sure why they went with this title, but touches on some interesting points.
I tend to believe that Paterno didn't call the police in 2002 because not only would it create a scandal that a former coach and long time friend raped a 10 year old in the Penn State football locker room after hours, but when it became public knowledge that a very similar incident happened 4 years earlier and Paterno and Penn State admins did nothing to prevent further abuse it would create an even bigger scandal. The Yahoo expert might know more than me about complex physiological motivations but in my experience self interest is the number one reason people do what they do. The most reasonable explanation for why Paterno didn't call the police is because he was more concerned about himself, his legacy and the image of Penn State and he was about his friend Sandusky raping some boys.

 
Paterno is no better, or worse, than the Catholic Bishops that covered up the child rapes that were being done by Catholic Priests.

Both Paterno and the Bishops have done a world of great things in their lives and touched many people. But all these good things are trumped by inaction in the face of horrid child molestation.

Paterno will be defined by this and rightfully so. You are allowed to make mistakes in life and most of the time you can overcome and learn from them. But there's no recovering from a mistake, or innaction, of this magnitude. It blows my mind that there were actually 2 or 3 people that allowed this to perpetuate.
[beavis]You said touched.[/butthead]
Man, it would be really ironic if somebody found some articles or a book where Sandusky of all people used terms like that.
it would be like rain on your wedding day
I would liken it more to winning the lottery and dying the next day.
 
Who you really are is what you do when nobody is looking. Or at least when you think nobody is looking. When Paterno, McQueary, Curley, etc. thought nobody was looking they put the university, the football program, and their own self-interests above the most vulnerable young victims.

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

 
Apologies if this has been posted before:

Who knew about Sandusky?

- Mike McQueary may have run away when he saw Sandusky raping a little boy, but he apparently didn't hesitate to break up a knife fight.

- the wife of Sandusky's adopted son went to court to prevent him from visiting his grandchildren after he was arrested.

- the child services investigator was not given all the details of the 1998 case ("[The detective] didn’t tell me details. All he said was, 'There’s nothing to it — we're going to close our case.' And I said, 'That's fine, I'm going to close my case, too.'")

- the mother of one victim implies that she was pressured not to press charges ("They told me to go home and think about what I wanted to do. They said I needed to think about how that would impact my son if I said something like that. I went home and got [my son] and we came to [Children and Youth Services] immediately.")
That, along with this: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/penn_state_child_sex-abuse_sca.html
In 1998, a boy who was 12 at the time told police that Sandusky had showered with him in the Penn State football locker room during a tour. The boy claimed Sandusky assaulted him during the shower.

During our own investigation, years later, the mother told us that she had been specifically instructed by state police not to speak with reporters.

No charges were filed against Sandusky in 1998. With the mother cowed into silence, the incident remained buried.
Absolutely sicken me. This is reprehensible.
Agreed. Now that the spotlight has been focused on PSU, I hope that people who can/will not be intimidated by the PSU machine dig long and dig deep.
 
Who you really are is what you do when nobody is looking. Or at least when you think nobody is looking. When Paterno, McQueary, Curley, etc. thought nobody was looking they put the university, the football program, and their own self-interests above the most vulnerable young victims.Sick of people trying to find excuses.
you would think a 22 year old GA would know better
 
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
I don't know if he is, or whether that has any effect on his perception of the situation (are Pitt and Penn State rivals?) However, I can say that I'm neither a Penn State fan nor hater, I don't follow college sports at all, really, and I've agreed with just about every word CrossEyed's written in this thread (and we rarely agree on stuff). :shrug:
 
Thoughts on the Penn State ScandalThursday, November 10, 2011, 3:21 PMJoe CarterFor the past few days I’ve been trying, without success, to make sense of the disgusting spectacle at Penn State. My reaction can be summed up in one word: inexplicable. The actions of Jerry Sandusky, Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier, Mike McQueary, the rioting Penn State students—all of it is inexplicable. I tell myself that it must be an anomalous event, for I can’t bear the idea that it may be symptomatic of our larger culture.Since other writers have formed more coherent opinions on the topic, I’ll share what I think about what they’ve written.My main thought about the situation is summed up by this comment by Rod Dreher:I don’t know that I can think of an act of everyday cowardice more vile than Mike McQueary, big strapping 6-foot-4-inch Mike McQueary, walking away when he came upon an old man sodomizing a little boy.Exactly. McQueary is the living embodiment of cowardice. The idea that a man could act in such a manner is beyond my comprehension. Anyone who is even remotely sympathetic to his situation or thinks they may have done the same thing in similar circumstances needs to stop whatever they are doing and begin some serious soul-searching. If your reaction would be anything other than that of Ronnie Polaneczky, then something is deeply flawed in your character:I know, like I know the sun will rise tomorrow, that if I’d seen what McQueary saw, nothing would have stopped me from screaming bloody murder. From using every ounce of strength I possess to pull that naked, repulsive predator off of that little boy. From gathering the child in my arms. From telling him, “I am here. You are safe. It’s over.”I am not alone. So many others I have spoken with about McQueary – whether male or female, a parent or childless – say the same, decent thing: They would not, could not, have left that boy. They would not, could not, have thought of anything other than ending the horror of what he was enduring.It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.Abandoned. On his own.Prey.If you are the kind of person that can leave a child to be brutalized than you have lost your humanity. May God have mercy on your soul.And if you’re a student at Penn State who is more upset about a coach being fired than a child being raped then please make that opinion as broadly known as possible (rioting is a good means of communicating your viewpoint). Your peculiar take on moral priorities needs to be made public so that the rest of us can avoid coming into contact with you in the future.Alan Jacobs thinks the problem stems from viewing a football team as a military unit :For me, the question that looms largest about the Penn State sexual-abuse scandal is this: How could someone see a man raping a child and fail to intervene? Fail even to call 911? I can contemplate many difficult, challenging, frightening situations that cause me to ask myself what I really would do if faced with them — and cause me to have no clear answer. This isn’t one of them. How could Mike McQueary not have done more?The answer, I think, lies in the tradition — as old as football itself — of pretending that football is a branch of the military. Players often talk about other players they’d go to war with. That linebacker is a warrior. The guys in this locker room, they know I’ve got their back. Football coaches, more perhaps than coaches in any other sport, play up the idea that the team is comprised of a besieged band of brothers who can trust only one another. (Even at the school where I teach — a Division III school with no athletic scholarships, thank God — the football players sit together at dinner and chant and shout.) Moreover, the coaches themselves are the primary beneficiaries of this governing military metaphor: they are your commanding officers, and to them you are uniquely and solely accountable. I bet it never occurred to Mike McQueary to call the police. I bet the first, last, and only thought he had was: I have to tell Coach.I think Alan’s metaphor may hold up in the abstract, but in my experience, it doesn’t represent the reality of military life. (Update: As Jacobs notes in the comments section, “Please note that my comment wasn’t about the military itself but about the way that sports teams are held together by a kind of make-believe that they’re soldiers.” He’s absolutely right about that.) I don’t know anyone I served with who thinks that anyone in the military, much less the commanding officer, is the person to whom they are “uniquely and solely accountable.” During the heat of battle warriors certainly look out for the interest of their brothers in arms. But when the bullets stop flying they go back to being accountable to their own conscience. Most people I knew in the Marines believed that their duty was to God, Country, and Corps—in that order.Certainly there are situations when a small group of soldiers will try to cover up for each other. Those cases are, I believe, rather exceptional. And I find it unimaginable that a servicemember in the U.S. military would turn a blind eye after witnessing a child being raped. If it happened, though, it would be a case of the military acting more like a football team, rather than vice versa.I love football and I respect football coaches. In fact, one of my all-time favorite characters on TV is Coach Eric Taylor on Friday Night Lights. But the fascination with football and the Cult of the Coach is a problematic sign of the degeneracy of modern manhood. Young men today are absolutely desperate for masculine role models. Too often the only example they have is a football coach. In many cases, the coaches are also decent, moral men. But the values of the playing field are not always sufficient for forming character. Joe Paterno, Mike McQueary, and Jerry Sandusky have proved that being a good coach and being a man of character are not always the same thing.Finally, there is sci-fi writer John Scalzi who provides the most apt metaphor for this heartbreaking scandal:Here’s what I think about that, right now. I’m a science fiction writer, and one of the great stories of science fiction is “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas,” which was written by Ursula K. LeGuin. The story posits a fantastic utopian city, where everything is beautiful, with one catch: In order for all this comfort and beauty to exist, one child must be kept in filth and misery. Every citizen of Omelas, when they come of age, is told about that one blameless child being put through hell. And they have a choice: Accept that is the price for their perfect lives in Omelas, or walk away from that paradise, into uncertainty and possibly chaos.At Pennsylvania State University, a grown man found a blameless child being put through hell. Other grown men learned of it. Each of them had to make their choice, and decide, fundamentally, whether the continuation of their utopia — or at very least the illusion of their utopia — was worth the pain and suffering of that one child. Through their actions, and their inactions, we know the choice they made.
 
Why Joe Paterno Didn't Call the Police

article doesn't really focus on Paterno so not sure why they went with this title, but touches on some interesting points.
I tend to believe that Paterno didn't call the police in 2002 because not only would it create a scandal that a former coach and long time friend raped a 10 year old in the Penn State football locker room after hours, but when it became public knowledge that a very similar incident happened 4 years earlier and Paterno and Penn State admins did nothing to prevent further abuse it would create an even bigger scandal. The Yahoo expert might know more than me about complex physiological motivations but in my experience self interest is the number one reason people do what they do. The most reasonable explanation for why Paterno didn't call the police is because he was more concerned about himself, his legacy and the image of Penn State and he was about his friend Sandusky raping some boys.
I think you underestimate the power of denial. It's all the more powerful when it comes to dealing with a close friend or family member. That doesn't excuse his inaction. But face it - Sandusky was his friend for a number of years. He was held in very high regard within the community. He did loads of charity work. Everyone regarded him as one of the nicest guys around and a rare breed which the world could use more of. Hearing so many great things about him acts as a form of brainwashing. So when you hear a report of inappropriate behavior it's colliding with years of personal experience. The police dismissed claims by at least one accuser. All those things are going to help lead you to believe this great guy simply ran across a crazy mom and/or a disgruntled kid. You'd rationalize things by saying McQueary didn't *really* see what he claimed. He must have misinterpreted things. I'm sure Sandusky was also a convincing liar (you don't stay that big a predator for so long without that ability). At best, Paterno deliberately kept himself in the dark. At worst...well that's something I don't believe I need to explain.

Paterno rightfully deserves loads of blame and is getting his due in the media. It's both tragic and disgusting he let things get to this point. But at the same time I understand how things could get here. It was a cluster#### by many people.

 
Sick of people trying to find excuses.
this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.
 
Why Joe Paterno Didn't Call the Police

article doesn't really focus on Paterno so not sure why they went with this title, but touches on some interesting points.
I tend to believe that Paterno didn't call the police in 2002 because not only would it create a scandal that a former coach and long time friend raped a 10 year old in the Penn State football locker room after hours, but when it became public knowledge that a very similar incident happened 4 years earlier and Paterno and Penn State admins did nothing to prevent further abuse it would create an even bigger scandal. The Yahoo expert might know more than me about complex physiological motivations but in my experience self interest is the number one reason people do what they do. The most reasonable explanation for why Paterno didn't call the police is because he was more concerned about himself, his legacy and the image of Penn State and he was about his friend Sandusky raping some boys.
I think you underestimate the power of denial. It's all the more powerful when it comes to dealing with a close friend or family member. That doesn't excuse his inaction. But face it - Sandusky was his friend for a number of years. He was held in very high regard within the community. He did loads of charity work. Everyone regarded him as one of the nicest guys around and a rare breed which the world could use more of. Hearing so many great things about him acts as a form of brainwashing. So when you hear a report of inappropriate behavior it's colliding with years of personal experience. The police dismissed claims by at least one accuser. All those things are going to help lead you to believe this great guy simply ran across a crazy mom and/or a disgruntled kid. You'd rationalize things by saying McQueary didn't *really* see what he claimed. He must have misinterpreted things. I'm sure Sandusky was also a convincing liar (you don't stay that big a predator for so long without that ability). At best, Paterno deliberately kept himself in the dark. At worst...well that's something I don't believe I need to explain.

Paterno rightfully deserves loads of blame and is getting his due in the media. It's both tragic and disgusting he let things get to this point. But at the same time I understand how things could get here. It was a cluster#### by many people.
And it was just a coincidence that this denial happen to also be the course which most benefited Paterno and Penn State?
 
It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.
I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.
 
Sick of people trying to find excuses.
this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.
If these were "good people" then God help us all. Good people do the right thing in difficult circumstances and regardless of personal cost. Good people make mistakes in a moment of uncertainty, but they don't cover it up for years at the expense of the most innocent and vulnerable. These were not good people.

 
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
 
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
Yes, I am. And if this happened at Pitt it would change nothing about my feelings or my posts.
I believe you would be just as vehement about the coaches, administators and others. I suspect you'd be a little more compassionate to the students and others affiliated with the university who had no role because you'd understand the complex emotions where pride and shame are mixing together.
 
Why Joe Paterno Didn't Call the Police

article doesn't really focus on Paterno so not sure why they went with this title, but touches on some interesting points.
I tend to believe that Paterno didn't call the police in 2002 because not only would it create a scandal that a former coach and long time friend raped a 10 year old in the Penn State football locker room after hours, but when it became public knowledge that a very similar incident happened 4 years earlier and Paterno and Penn State admins did nothing to prevent further abuse it would create an even bigger scandal. The Yahoo expert might know more than me about complex physiological motivations but in my experience self interest is the number one reason people do what they do. The most reasonable explanation for why Paterno didn't call the police is because he was more concerned about himself, his legacy and the image of Penn State and he was about his friend Sandusky raping some boys.
I think you underestimate the power of denial. It's all the more powerful when it comes to dealing with a close friend or family member. That doesn't excuse his inaction. But face it - Sandusky was his friend for a number of years. He was held in very high regard within the community. He did loads of charity work. Everyone regarded him as one of the nicest guys around and a rare breed which the world could use more of. Hearing so many great things about him acts as a form of brainwashing. So when you hear a report of inappropriate behavior it's colliding with years of personal experience. The police dismissed claims by at least one accuser. All those things are going to help lead you to believe this great guy simply ran across a crazy mom and/or a disgruntled kid. You'd rationalize things by saying McQueary didn't *really* see what he claimed. He must have misinterpreted things. I'm sure Sandusky was also a convincing liar (you don't stay that big a predator for so long without that ability). At best, Paterno deliberately kept himself in the dark. At worst...well that's something I don't believe I need to explain.

Paterno rightfully deserves loads of blame and is getting his due in the media. It's both tragic and disgusting he let things get to this point. But at the same time I understand how things could get here. It was a cluster#### by many people.
And it was just a coincidence that this denial happen to also be the course which most benefited Paterno and Penn State?
I don't think Sandusky getting busted in the 90's would have hurt Joe's legacy too much (unless he had previously buried his head in the sand). I will agree keeping this in the dark is one of the very many things that helped lead to his decision.

But I can also understand the psychology behind this. Some folks helped cover it up. Others kept their heads buried in the sand. Both fuel the other.

 
If these men aren't convicted and thrown in prison it's further evidence that our legal system is a joke.

 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Other than criticizing the handful of idiot drunken rioters (present on every campus in America) my criticism has been leveled at the administration, and primarily at those who knew and did nothing. If you are reading criticism of every current and former student, that's your misconception, because it's not my intent.
 
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.
I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.
I said this in my longer post several pages ago and was labelled a liar by Tom whatever.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Other than criticizing the handful of idiot drunken rioters (present on every campus in America) my criticism has been leveled at the administration, and primarily at those who knew and did nothing. If you are reading criticism of every current and former student, that's your misconception, because it's not my intent.
That is how it is coming off though. Not just you, but not everybody either.
 
Sick of people trying to find excuses.
this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment. I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster. But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)
 
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Agreed. Now that the spotlight has been focused on PSU, I hope that people who can/will not be intimidated by the PSU machine dig long and dig deep.
When you generically refer to PSU, you implicate all of PSU. I agree they should dig to uncover what is there, with no preconceived notions either way.But I think we should be careful in saying it is Penn State. Excise the cancer, but don't kill the patient.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
:goodposting: I will also add that there was several adults that are at fault on this and to just pin this on JoePa or the GA is wrong. They messed up big time and are paying a price for it. But what about the Police that did not act in the 90's or the DA? This board seems to be focused on JoePa and the GA as the ones who failed, but guess what the whole community failed. For it to go along this long there had to be whispers of what was going on and guess what the entire community did nothing.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
Yes, I am. And if this happened at Pitt it would change nothing about my feelings or my posts.
I believe you would be just as vehement about the coaches, administators and others. I suspect you'd be a little more compassionate to the students and others affiliated with the university who had no role because you'd understand the complex emotions where pride and shame are mixing together.
I understand that you don't know me. But allow me to assure you that you are wrong. I would take issue with any person looking to defend any of these men, regardless of affiliation. If it were my dad I'd feel the same way. You don't do these things, and you don't defend people who do.I understand that people will disagree with me, but please don't try to paint me as a disgruntled Pitt fan. This has absolutely nothing to do with which institution was home to the actions.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
:goodposting: I will also add that there was several adults that are at fault on this and to just pin this on JoePa or the GA is wrong. They messed up big time and are paying a price for it. But what about the Police that did not act in the 90's or the DA? This board seems to be focused on JoePa and the GA as the ones who failed, but guess what the whole community failed. For it to go along this long there had to be whispers of what was going on and guess what the entire community did nothing.
And I have posted about these things.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.
 
I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.

 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.
Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.
Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.
Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.
 
Sick of people trying to find excuses.
this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.
If these were "good people" then God help us all. Good people do the right thing in difficult circumstances and regardless of personal cost. Good people make mistakes in a moment of uncertainty, but they don't cover it up for years at the expense of the most innocent and vulnerable. These were not good people.
Agree. People need to step back from the media telling them for years how great JoePa is. A great guy doesn't coverup child rape for over a decade. He's a turd that has done nice things for people at times I'm sure.
 
from paterno's latest statement it sure looks like at a minimum he could be up on perjury. I thought he got a world class lawyer yesterday? Who is advising this monster what to say?

 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.
Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.
Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.
Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.
 
Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.
I think it should be fairly obvious who people are referring to in this thread. Do we really have to list Sandusky, McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Shultz, etc in every post?Everybody knows that the vast majority of PSU alum are not culpable in this matter.
 
I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.
HA! Mcqueer! Good one.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.
Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.
Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.
Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.
Of course not everyone associated with PSU is a child rapist or participated in the coverup of child rape. No one here has even hinted at that. You know that.But so far a 30 year employee allegedly raped many kids on the PSU campus and it was covered up by the face of PSU in Paterno as well as by the A.D. and a Vice President and the school president has been a completed moron since the story broke. It kind of implicates the university whether you like it or not.
 
'Idiot Boxer said:
'Wadsworth said:
CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?
Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.
Ok. But are you?
You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.
I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.
Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.
Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.
Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.
Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.
Unfortunately, IB, you don't get to tell the world what "Penn State" is. And to much of the rest of the world "Penn State" is now a place where certain powerful individuals conspired to allow a monster to continue preying on children in order not to sully the image of a football team. It's sad, but true. And the image of students rioting in support of Paterno only supports that image - as distorted and inaccurate as it might be.
 
I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.
curious, why do you insinuate McQueary is gay? Are you saying that gay people would look the other way at child rape?
 
Sick of people trying to find excuses.
this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment. I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster. But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)
Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.
 
I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.
curious, why do you insinuate McQueary is gay? Are you saying that gay people would look the other way at child rape?
Poke holes in this theory (guess):People told that Sandusky is closeted gay. It's why he can't coach anymore. A worst kept secret of sorts.

-McQ sees him doing this and it triggers a confirmation bias that he's unable to get past, and his father can't even set him straight

-That one sports writer was right in that it was super odd that he was a high powered coach and unable to find a job in his prime years. There had to be some rumor out on this.

 
I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.
curious, why do you insinuate McQueary is gay? Are you saying that gay people would look the other way at child rape?
Poke holes in this theory (guess):-People told that Sandusky is closeted gay. It's why he can't coach anymore. A worst kept secret of sorts.

-McQ sees him doing this and it triggers a confirmation bias that he's unable to get past, and his father can't even set him straight

-That one sports writer was right in that it was super odd that he was a high powered coach and unable to find a job in his prime years. There had to be some rumor out on this.
No, he is a pedophile, that is why he can't coach anymore.
 

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