Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Joe Paterno Big Ten Championship Trophy, wait
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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter PoliSciGuy
- Start date
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Wasn't it the Stagg-Paterno Trophy?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
That might be right. They just said on ESPN that the Big Ten has decided to remove Paterno's name. I don't think they got any more specific than that (TVs on in the other room).
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Doug B
Footballguy
Stagg-Hayes ... no ...Stagg-Tressel ... not quite ...
Stagg Trophy ... dunno ... "stag films" and all ... no, that won't do ...
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Yeah, just the Stagg Championship Trophy now. http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/33310400
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
No, I read the followup from the portion of your point listed above. Whether you intend to or not, you at least coming off as if the Penn State situation is worse. I truly don't want to fight about this because we're on the same side. But right now, we're at a stalemate in this situation. It is imaginably terrible. I think even the most ardent PSU apologists are realizing that now. Its a court case and we are not a jury. My personal opinion is, the most productive direction we can take now is to figure out as a country and a world how we can stem the tide of this awfulness. The salacious specifics and the rehashing of them, are less interesting to me.
Maybe I'm threadcraping in here, and on the one hand I don't mean to troll, but on the other hand, I see a lot of positive energy here as far as people CARING about this issue. We all do, or we all should, I suppose, but as PSU shows, it can slip between the cracks. This thread found its place in a strict dissection of details, but its personally sickening to me at this point on some level. And yes, I realize we are less than a week out from this breaking, but short of new, substantiated developments in regard to this case, then we are going in circles.
What I guess I would like to hope to see, maybe taking this from an unimaginatively dark place and somehow reclaiming the legacies involved. Not of Paterno and Sandusky but of the children involved. No amount of money will undo whats been done, and the past is the past. The future, however, is unwritten. If we learn from this and translate that knowledge into action and awareness that prevents all, some or one case of future abuse, we will have honored these children who are now adults in some cases in a truly meaningful way.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Because of the ongoing, predatory nature of the molestations, and the ongoing, systemic nature of the coverup, the PSU situation IS worse. Not sure how you can make an argument in the other direction. Yes, the acts of molestation affect all victims equally, but that doesn't make both situations equivalent.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
I had to step away from this thread for a few days, but this guy is shtick right?
B-Deep
Footballguy
I do have this to add...
Why was the Big 10 trophy named the Joe Paterno trophy anyway? Looking at it the man won 3 Big 10 titles, which puts him in the elite company of men like Gary Moeller and John Copper, both LEGENDARY LEADERS in the Big 10...
It should have been the Lloyd Carr trophy before the Joe Paterno trophy, i am just saying...
Why was the Big 10 trophy named the Joe Paterno trophy anyway? Looking at it the man won 3 Big 10 titles, which puts him in the elite company of men like Gary Moeller and John Copper, both LEGENDARY LEADERS in the Big 10...
It should have been the Lloyd Carr trophy before the Joe Paterno trophy, i am just saying...
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think the "Paterno has done so much" has anything to do with him as a coach. They're referring to his donations, etc.; he's done more for his university than any other coach I can think of, and it's not particularly close.Actually, great posting.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Yeah, but Joe did it with honor and integrity...oh, wait.
B-Deep
Footballguy
i am not dissing him as a coach, ok maybe a bit, but much of his career was before he even entered the Big 10just oddanyway, it was probably dickish to PSU people to bring that up in here, sorry
ArbyMelt
Footballguy
Has anyone discussed why Sandusky got ZERO coaching offers after his "retirement" from Penn State? The guy was at the height of his coaching career, and a defensive genius, and no other school is interested in him? It seems to me that maybe it was known among coaches about his "issues"? Something smells here.
Brock Middlebrook
Footballguy
JoePa was one of the big name coaches to coach in the B10I also wonder if it was part of the deal to get PSU in the B10 as opposed to the Big East...
whoknew
Footballguy
You think PSU joined the Big Ten so that 18 years after it joined, the Big Ten would name its championship trophy after the coach?
BroadwayG
Footballguy
Only about every other page.
seems reasonable.
beer 30
Footballguy
Yep, pretty sure his issues where known amongst the coaching circles at PSU before the first investigation as well. It was posted earlier but Joe knows everything about that program and for as blatant as this guy was I have to think it wasn't the first time he got caught. Joe told him he wouldn't be head coach, guessing it pointed squarely to this. Word travels, people close to Joe had to ask why did Sandusky retire so abruptly? I'd like to think that Joe put the word out not to hire the guy but given everything that has come to light in the last few weeks I'm not so sure.
B-Deep
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
What does him not interviewing with or getting offers from other programs across the country have to do with what people at PSU knew? College football people knew who Sandusky was. It's not like they were calling for references before they would bring him in for an interview. Either Sandusky declined to go elsewhere because he was comfortable or people outside PSU knew also.
AmosMoses
Footballguy
Parrothead, I know you are angry and ashamed at the individuals involving this scandal. I feel bad for you and for all the other Penn St grads regarding this. But you really need to lay off comparing this to anything else, even the Citadel story. If you want to talk about the Citadel story, you should make a new thread. Otherwise, even if you don't try to draw comparisons, everyone here will think you are posting it here to deflect the message board hate to Citadel. Because of that, people are going to take shots at you that you nor the board need. Can you just drop the Citadel stuff in this thread? Thanks.again- prove it = where did I defend Paterno or Sandusky? Give me a break.. read the threadYou come across as a complete apologist for child rape enablers. Everyone is calling you "creepy" and "jackhole" and saying you are way off base. But you're right, it is everyone but you.I've ignored you for 89 pages- but please point me to the post where I defended Paterno or Sandusky (you kidding me??).. otherwise, ####
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I think Sandusky declined to look for other jobs because he wanted to stay close to Second Mile, for obvious reasons.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Agreed. He had built his little kingdom and had his perfect scenario. He was drawing a $60K pension from PSU, and another $57K from Second Mile. He was still a BMOC at PSU and everyone was protecting his little secret. Why would he ever leave?
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
In fairness, how do you know he didn't get any?
B-Deep
Footballguy
"The NCAA will defer in the immediate term to law enforcement officials since this situation involved alleged crimes," president Mark Emmert said Thursday. "As the facts are established through the justice system, we will determine whether association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly."
CrossEyed
Footballguy
17seconds
root of all aliai
I can see how Paterno could eventually be cleared in the public's opinion (somewhat). If you aren't sure McQueary is telling the truth (maybe he and Sandsusky didn't like each other), and you know the PSU + law enforcement know about it you assume everything is alleged and under investigation. Just saying it's possible...
B-Deep
Footballguy
for 9 years...with either a child molestor around your program or the kind of person who would lie about child abuse being promoted up through your ranksno need to figure out which, both pretty harmless
#1 If he thinks McQueary isn't telling the truth or is untrustworthy in any way, how does he make him a coach and recruiting coordinator within a year or two?#2 If he thinks the accusations from 2002 are true and is aware of anything from earlier, how does he do nothing when he sees the school administration take no action against Sandusky? How does he let a child rapist and pedophile hang around his locker room and players for another 9 years?
Billy Bats
Footballguy
So sad. "It's a very good question... I know that Joe and Jerry weren't buds, they weren't, so I'm not sure how that ended up where he had access, but you're absolutely right he should not have had access" -Franco Harris when asked how Sandusky is allowed to be on campus all those years.
Apparently Paterno isn't responsible for that either, Joe couldn't tell him to be gone and stay gone. What a joke.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
The Noid
Avoid me!
And she's bad at math (or, she's from the future....)She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
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CrossEyed
Footballguy
I think you missed her point as to why so many men hesitated to blow the whistle. And I think it's a very valid one.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
women are more likely to report incidents like this.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Because they are women? Or because they are parents?women are more likely to report incidents like this.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
He said "part of the deal." Maybe it was included. Legacy means a lot in CFB. As we're seeing in this thread.
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CrossEyed
Footballguy
Many of the men who chose to stay silent are/were parents.Because they are women? Or because they are parents?women are more likely to report incidents like this.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
I think women are more likely to empathize with the victim.Because they are women? Or because they are parents?women are more likely to report incidents like this.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
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But that leaves you with one of two results, neither of which should be tolerable. Sandusky is a pedophile or McQueary is despicable enough to falsely accuse someone of being a pedophile. Yet both remained.
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Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Well, McQueary was 22 in 2002, and now he's 37. So 2002 was 15 years ago. (MOP please check my math)
parrot
Footballguy
Parents of Sandusky victims, or just parents?Many of the men who chose to stay silent are/were parents.Because they are women? Or because they are parents?women are more likely to report incidents like this.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I guess I was being too obtuse. Let me rephrase:1. the article implied that females were inherently more likely to call police.2. I am suggesting that it had less to do with the person's gender, and more to do with the fact that the person was a parent of a victim.Many of the men who chose to stay silent are/were parents.Because they are women? Or because they are parents?women are more likely to report incidents like this.She also makes some bad points and some sketchy implications. "Men bad, women good".
17seconds
root of all aliai
Agree. Just saying it's possible. Things always change when you hear the other side of the story.His reasons may be wrong, but I doubt we find out that Joe Pa has been fooling us for almost 50 years and is really a dirty old man who doesn't mind a little child abuse or is a completely unscrupulous coward. Doesn't add up. There must be something in there that caused him to justify his inaction.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
You mean like the priests and bishops who helped coverup child molestation for decades? Nah, you're right, no way someone could have talked one way and acted another.
B-Deep
Footballguy
Sure there is, dedication to PSU and PSU football over all else. We have seen it by otherwise great men in other places, when the organization becomes more important than people you can dismiss awful things to protect the organizationI'll gladly listen to what he has to say, but short of alienas replacing him with a joepa clone from Zargon7 I have trouble seeing a side of it that makes him look like he did the right thing. HE even said he should have done more.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
If Penn Staters cannot cite the Citadel, you cannot cite the church.
