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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2012 Off Season Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dgreen
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fatness
Footballguy
Each year I wonder how teams would draft at the end of the season, vs. how they finally draft, and which would have historically worked out better. I think at least some of them have deluded themselves with the combine, and the surrounding "buzz" which is usually bad information from agents, other teams, and sportswriters.
It's a real shame that Barkley didn't come out this year. The Skins would be almost assured at getting a Franchise QB at 6. If they are sold on Griffin then I would agree that 2 #1s would be worth it, what I don't want to see is them draft a project QB.If Blackmon or Claibourne drops though I certainly wouldn't be upset if they ended up with either of those guys.'fatness said:
Sebowski
Footballguy
There was a good amount of buzz around Flynn well before that game. He has been rostered in my dynasty league since before the season because everyone knew he was an impending FA and would get a chance to start somewhere. That one game upped his contract a few mil, but you are fooling yourself if you think it's the only thing that gave him a chance at a starting job. I wonder how you would feel about him if he didn't even play that week? It is almost like some people are using that great game as an excuse to call him a flash in the pan.'fatness said:
fatness
Footballguy
I'm beginning to think Barkley and Landry Jones hate the Redskins.
fatness
Footballguy
I'd feel like I noticed him slightly less, and that he wasn't worth a big contract and being handed the starting QB job.
It's almost like some people are mesmerized by one game under ideal conditions and are annointing him. But if flashy things thrill you, you've been a fan of the right team over the years.
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I'm not sure Flynn is a franchise QB, I do think he is better than Grossman so if they could get him for what he is worth then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Throwing a ton of money at him would be a mistake IMO.If they don't want to trade up for Griffin I would prefer them to sign Flynn than stick with Grossman/Beck
Sebowski
Footballguy
That's the thing. It's funny how signing Flynn is all of the sudden flashy when just a week ago it was considered a pretty shrewd move. Don't get me wrong, I'm not all aboard the Flynn hype train or anything. I just want an upgrade at B and I'd take Luck, RG3, or Flynn as that upgrade. I am certainly not discounting Flynn just because he has had a couple good games like you seem to be. A lot of people see him like they saw Schuab when he left ATL. And that was before his record setting game last week. Could he be more like Keivn Kolb? Sure. And Luck could be Leaf. Flynn could also be Brady or Kurt Warner. Not likely, but the spectrum goes both ways. I'll have to trust the Skins scouts on it. It sounds awfully appealing to be able to get a guy with the potential to be a franchise QB and still have our #6 pick to use on another need.
dgreen
Footballguy
I think it's all based on the assumptions we're making about his potential contract. Flynn talk has been around for months. Prior to his week 17 performance, I think most people pushing Flynn assumed he could be signed for a reasonable contract. Then, after week 17, the assumption changed to visions of a mega contract and the fear that he won't be worth such a large contract. It went from shrewd to flashy because our view of his future contract skyrocketed.
fatness
Footballguy
I didn't consider it a shrewd move before his big game. Rex Grossman needs to be replaced with someone better before this team can go anywhere. I don't have any reason to believe Flynn would or would not be able to beat out Grossman here. What happened in the last week is that the # of people who think he's already an NFL caliber starter multiplied by a factor of 100 or so.
fatness
Footballguy
While I don't see that Flynn has the "potential to be a franchise QB", I do agree that it would be nice to get one and still have pick #6 this year. But I don't know any reason Flynn would want to come to Washington with their established tradition of being a below average team with frequent front office turmoil. Other teams will want him, and it'll take a lot of bucks to make him want to come here. Face it, the Redskins are not a desirable location for NFL players any more.
Balco
Footballguy
Why would you compare him to Rob Johnson and not a player like Mark Brunnel, Matt Schaub, or Matt Hasselback? Flynn has steadily improved each season in the presason and has performed well in the regular season when called upon. If you want to compare him to previous backups I think he compares very favorable to Matt Hasselback.
For a QB like Flynn it could be. The only teams that have a starter spot open at QB is Washington, Cleveland, Indy and Miami. Two of those will get Luck and Griffin, so it looks like it would be either Miami or Washington that would have a spot for a QB to come in and start right away. Which is also why staying at #6 and taking the BPA and waiting to draft a franchise QB next year (like Barkley) wouldn't be a bad move. But then again I don't expect many people to have the foresight or patience to run with a plan like that.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I guess Atogwe, Chester, Bowen, Cofield, Wilson and Rocca lost that memo.
I think if: a.) the Redskins offer Flynn more money than anyone else and b.) they offer him the chance to start right away, then c.) he would consider their offer as strongly as anyone else. This is one time where Snyder's desire to back up the Brinks truck would make a difference. Washington would actually be a good landing spot for Flynn. Sure, the team has been dysfunctional over the past decade, but over the last year they have committed to getting younger and their offense made some strides late in the year. He would be able to walk in and replace a guy who the team sees as a turnover machine and would be poised to look really good by comparison.
fatness
Footballguy
Do you really think other NFL players didn't see Rogers and Carter make the Pro Bowl after getting ditched by a team that has gone 8-8, 4-12, 6-10, and 5-11? Players will sign here if the money's right. Right now that's the only attraction the Redskins have left. Nobody's coming here because they want to play for a winner.'Sidewinder16 said:
fatness
Footballguy
I understand what you're saying and don't completely disagree. But being poised to look really good has no bearing on whether he'd actually play well on a team with a greatly inferior roster than Green Bay's. And quite possibly an inferior coaching staff as well. A couple good performances for a great team don't necessarily translate into a season of good performances for a bad team.
Oh yeah, I agree...he may bust big time. I was just speaking as to whether he would be open to coming to the Redskins. But make no bones about it, no matter who we bring in -- Flynn or RGIII or someone else -- any of those guys could fail given the right confluence of factors.
This is my worry as well. Next year, if we roll with Rex again, I think it's very likely we get more than 5 wins, just on the strength of the rest of the team being better. Next year we could be picking in the 10-15 slot and would have to give up even more to move up to get Barkley. And, the team would be even more desperate.
fatness
Footballguy
Review of the 2011 draft class by John Keim.
Kerrigan played every defensive snap this year, by the way. And I can't wait to see Jarvis Jenkins on the field. 2011 was quite a good draft for the Skins.
Kerrigan played every defensive snap this year, by the way. And I can't wait to see Jarvis Jenkins on the field. 2011 was quite a good draft for the Skins.
Trying to get a bead on what you think the Redskins should do. If you were GM, what approach would you take to securing a QB. Six choices:a. Move up to get RGIIIb. Move up to get Luckc. Sign Flynn as FA (# 1 pick given if franchised, just $$ if not)d. Select a different QB in the draft after RGIIIe. Stay with Rex another yearf. Other (please specify...lol)
fatness
Footballguy
Move up to get RGIII (I think they can do this without the cost being prohibitive)
Move up to get Luck (but I think the cost will be prohibitive)
Sign Flynn if it doesn't mean giving up a #1 pick.
Select a different QB in the draft after Griffin, regardless of whether Flynn is signed or not.
Grossman as a backup is OK. As a starter, he'll never allow the team to get better than 8-8. Why limit the team like that?
How about your ideas?
Move up to get Luck (but I think the cost will be prohibitive)
Sign Flynn if it doesn't mean giving up a #1 pick.
Select a different QB in the draft after Griffin, regardless of whether Flynn is signed or not.
Grossman as a backup is OK. As a starter, he'll never allow the team to get better than 8-8. Why limit the team like that?
How about your ideas?
I think my preferred option would be to trade up to get RGIII, as long as after evaluating him fully you think he can be your franchise guy. I am not worried about giving up a future # 1 if that's what it costs, as I think over the long haul, having a true franchise QB the caliber of Brees or Brady is more valuable than having an additional # 1 pick in the following year. Yes, you won't have that pick for some other slot, but the benefit of QB has more utility in a QB driven league. Thus, I would not be saying this if it weren't for the fact that it was the QB position. I don't believe that the past experience of giving up picks for the likes of TJ Duckett are comparable situations in this regard. I think we've played around with middling QBs for the past few years and we need to just "go for it" now. That's my two cents. No matter what position you adopt, someone is going to attack you. But you have to try something. You cannot be paralyzed by the fact that it may not work out.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Wow. Didn't realize that. Interestingly, I noticed Rob Jackson in at times for Orakpo throughout the season. I'm sure some of those were injury related, but sometimes I got the feeling that Jackson was just being given some snaps to get him on the field. And they seemed to prefer putting him in for Orakpo instead of the rookie Kerrigan. I'm a little worried that Orakpo has peaked.
fatness
Footballguy
From the games that I saw this year, Orakpo only did one thing --- speed rush from the outside. If the other team could stop that, then he was effectively stopped all game. I don't think he's stupid or lazy or lacks ability. I think he needs to learn more moves than just that one. Time for some effective coaching. And if the coaches won't teach him that I'll be taking the bus, and you will NOT see me at the pancake social.
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fatness
Footballguy
I'm hoping that at the combine Griffin is shorter or lighter than was previously thought. You know how bandwagon thinking develops after the combine, and if he's "slipping on the draft boards" due to size, I think that works to the Redskins' advantage. Because he's whatever size he played at.
dgreen
Footballguy
He has a decent bull rush. But, I agree, he needs more moves.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I'm fairly confident the vast majority of those were injury related. Orakpo had numerous, minor dings during the season that would sometimes get reaggravated during games.I recall, towards the end of last season (2010), when asked about Orakpo moving between the left and right sides against different teams, Haslett said that Orakpo usually picked his matchup every week. Basically, they were trying to put Orakpo in the best positions to cause problems. With the addition of Kerrigan, they ran Kerrigan on the right and Orakpo on the left 99.99% of the time during the '11 season (most likely, IMO, for Kerrigan's sake; easier to learn/focus on one "position" as a rookie)...except for the last game. In the Eagles game, Orakpo was moved around a good bit with good results (3 tackles, 2 were sacks, the other a TFL, plus a QH and a FF; not to mention drawing a couple holding penalites, IIRC). I have a feeling we'll see more of that (maybe even moving both Kerrigan and Orakpo around), which will make it harder for offenses to account for/double team him. IMO, Orakpo is still improving, and we'll see an uptick in his big play numbers (sacks, specifically) next season.
So do the Redskins have no shot at resigning London Fletcher or is Fletcher just looking for the biggest paycheck?
The 2011 draft has the potential to be a great one. First there was trading down to acquire more picks. And then Shanahan/Allen appears to have made good choices.
Sebowski
Footballguy
London is obviously in it just for the money like the rest of the roster or they would have all signed with the Steelers and Pats for league minimums.
You are smarter than this "fans will trot out the wait until next year?" BS you keep spouting. This team has had two years of competent coaching and drafting. This team was no better than an expansion team a few years ago. I'd like to hear one team that has been built up to a competitve level in two years like you seem to think this team should have been.
fatness
Footballguy
You're smarter than this "two years of competent coaching and drafting" excuse, thayman. They had one year of good drafting and one bad year. They've had 0 years of the Shanahans choosing a good QB to lead the team. A very good college QB is right there to be chosen at #2, the Rams don't want a QB, and it's time to put a decent driver in the drivers seat and let him drive. If you think they're going to have a better shot, at a better QB, next year, tell he how that's going to happen. Will they have to go 3-13, and how will they do that with "competent coaching and drafting"? Will 6 stud college QB's suddenly materialize next year? Come on, this year is their best shot at getting one.
fatness
Footballguy
Depends on whether Fletcher feels more loyalty, or more desire to win. So far in his career he's mostly been on losing teams, right? I hope they don't lose him, but it's nearing the end of his career and if he wants a shot at a super bowl he may be looking elsewhere.
fatness
Footballguy
I'm still impressed with last year's draft. And as you mentioned they picked up additional picks as well. That's one of the reasons I"m not hesitant to support moving up to get Griffin (or Luck, but he's probably out of reach) --- they're not bereft of draft choices like they were in so many past years. They have plenty of picks to use on building other positions.'Marvelous said:
fatness
Footballguy
I'd love to see that. Both those guys are very good, and young enough to get even better.
It's not an excuse it's reality. It takes time to build up a team, for years I've read your posts about how trading picks and signing those flashy guys are not the way to go. Now that the team is building through the draft and pushing in the same direction that most good teams do it's not fast enough?'fatness said:
fatness
Footballguy
I've offered my idea on the best way for the Skins to get what they most lack --- a good QB.
I'm waiting to hear your suggestion.
"It takes time to build up a team"
"the team is building through the draft"
"pushing in the same direction that most good teams do"
Those aren't suggestions.
I'm waiting to hear your suggestion.
"It takes time to build up a team"
"the team is building through the draft"
"pushing in the same direction that most good teams do"
Those aren't suggestions.
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Take BPA. The team is going to be .500 at best next year and will still end up with a top 10-15 pick. But I don't think that is quick or flashy enough for you.ETA: The primary needs IMO are CB, WR and QB. You need to see how FA starts out to see what WR and CB will be out there. That should dictate how you choose to go in the draft
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Free agency starts before the draft, so the decision on Flynn or any other free agent comes first.I think if Flynn is not too expensive, you sign him (assuming the Shanahans think he can play). This move gives you flexibility. Then in the draft, you can move up to get Griffin, but you don't feel like you have to mortgage the future to get him. Or draft a QB in a mid round (2-4) as more of a developmental project than Griffin is. They could also sign a reclamation project at QB. No names come to mind, but there are always former starters looking for jobs. But that is just competition for the 3rd string QB. If they don't sign Flynn, the goal must be to come away with a QB of the future (I actually hate that term) in this draft. That could mean more aggressively trading up for Griffin, or working with a mid-round pick. If they go this round, I think they should seriously consider drafting 2 QBs in the draft if they can find a 2nd one they like.They need to re-sign Grossman, who will either be the backup or start until a rookie QB is ready. Beck can compete for the 3rd QB position. As I noted before, if Beck is the 3rd QB, he will probably not be on the roster, but just a phone call away.I think the goal is to get two new QBs this offseason, although one could be low round draft pick that goes on the practice squad.
I believe the Redskins need to find their QB. If they do not, the best they can be will the Vikings the past few years before Farve. A very good team searching for a QB. The Raiders a long time ago was like that when they traded for Jay Schroeder. You can win a lot of games and make the playoffs, but you won't have an elite team that can get to the Super Bowl.
All of this could just be a moot point since Griffin hasn't even declared yet.
Even if Griffin stays in college, the Redskins need to find their QB. The upside is limited wtih Grossman as QB. And the upside is lower if they ditch Grossman and go with some other cast off.
If Griffin doesn't come out I don't think there is really anything out there. The other QBs coming out this year are more project guys, the only other QBs out there would be FAs, Flynn and I'm not sure who else is available.
dgreen
Footballguy
[cough]Peyton Manning[/cough]
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