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"If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yo (3 Viewers)

True. It's all I ever wanted to hear from her since this all went down. That she ####ed up.
Why does it even matter? Anything she says is an attempt to manipulate you... her apologies are about as sincere and heartfelt as (Insert crazy analogy here). Frankly it's even MORE pathetic that you even CARE enough at this point to want some empty apology. Look dude... you still care way too ####### much. You can keep saying you don't, but you do. Until you get her claws out of you (dog, texts, etc) then you're going to continue to be the fluffer to her real studs in her life. You're too damn weak to distance yourself on your own... you need to help yourself out a little with a block and getting that dog connection out of your life. IF you're truly concerned for the Dog's well being (yeah right) then put an ad in the paper give it away to a good home. But you won't do that because you enjoy your ex taking the PT's johnson and guiding it firmly in and out of your earhole in the most pathetically drawn out mind#### I've seen in quite some time.
:goodposting:No.16I get wanting to feel like she effed up, but 1 question...How would you be feeling is she fell in love with PT and was engaged right now?It's been fun, but everyone is right, as usual, grow up move on, the longer you "want" her in your life, the longer it is going to take for you to get her out of your life.
If she fell in love and married that guy it would hurt, but good for her. It would actually make it easier for me to say she left me for her husband instead of a #####. I would still move on just like I'm doing now. The thing is I wouldn't know until someone told me because she wouldn't text me and I don't have any contact other then her texts.
 
Seriously. I've seen some pathetic #### in the FFA before but this dude is starting to make Cranbrulet look like John Stamos. This is really really really sad to read.... on a scale of 1 to loser this kid is about to start lapping folks a 3rd time.
16 - You really need to start taking some of the advice you get on this board. Take if from some of us older guys (i think i have at least 10 years on you) who have been there and done that....you are going to look back at the time you wasted and wish you had it back. Move on!
 
- June: Friend's Wedding - mutual friends with ex and I
So what's the plan here? You're going to continue to ignore her while she tries to reach out and let anger/resentment build, then you two are suddenly going to play nice at the wedding? Solid plan here, Admiral Yamamoto.
:goodposting: No 16 is a fool if he goes to this wedding.
I'm rooting for the ex and the PT now. I hope the PT goes to this and he makes BJ gestures from across the room.
Why should I not go to this wedding? The bride has been my friend since Freshman year of HS compared to my ex whom she met in college. Most of the wedding guests there will be my friends from high school. So why would I disinvite myself from thr wedding when I have known the party and guests longer?
You definately need to bring some hired talent if you go....I talking a six foot blond in a mini skirt....Start saving now for one of those $2-3K escorts....Oh, and you will have to obviously post pics...
 
If she fell in love and married that guy it would hurt, but good for her. It would actually make it easier for me to say she left me for her husband instead of a #####. I would still move on just like I'm doing now. The thing is I wouldn't know until someone told me because she wouldn't text me and I don't have any contact other then her texts.
So do you really have yourself sold on all these lies? Please...
 
If she fell in love and married that guy it would hurt, but good for her. It would actually make it easier for me to say she left me for her husband instead of a #####. I would still move on just like I'm doing now. The thing is I wouldn't know until someone told me because she wouldn't text me and I don't have any contact other then her texts.
So do you really have yourself sold on all these lies? Please...
Gotta start somewhere.
 
icon may be over the top, but he's hitting the nail on the head in here. While 16 should block calls and keep the $#@&ing dog, none of that is going to lead to closure on this. This crazy will eventually wind up on his doorstep kicking and screaming until she gets exactly what she wants. What is the most troubling is 16 doesn't recognize obvious manipulative attempts to keep him captive as.... just that. He thinks he's getting upperhand, receiving legit remorse. It makes him feel better about himself, and so he allows it to continue. But don't think for a moment that wasn't her plan all along. Hell, she's used half of Sybil's personalities trying to find the right way in. This person seems incapable of caring about anything but her own selfish needs and desires, and you've littered 47 pages with the breadcrumbs of evidence. If she was capable of even an iota of self-suffering, she wouldn't be trying to set up a doggy visit while you're trying to get on with your life. To your face she's telling you her trivial desire to pet that dog is more important to her than you, and your mental state. Think about that for a moment and recognize the person you're dealing with here.

Keep posting updates because it is entertaining, but for the love of god, don't be so naive. Until you recognize blatant manipulation, and recognize the soul-less blackhole of a person you're dealing with, you'll be strung along regardless of what you do, or don't do.

And FWIW - Your description of her and your 6th grade crush and commandeering your friend list is almost cliche; the people who can't be trusted are those same people who find everyone else untrustworthy. They assume everyone is as conniving and deceiptful as themselves. You shouldn't put any faith in someone like that under any circumstances.

 
icon may be over the top, but he's hitting the nail on the head in here. While 16 should block calls and keep the $#@&ing dog, none of that is going to lead to closure on this. This crazy will eventually wind up on his doorstep kicking and screaming until she gets exactly what she wants. What is the most troubling is 16 doesn't recognize obvious manipulative attempts to keep him captive as.... just that. He thinks he's getting upperhand, receiving legit remorse. It makes him feel better about himself, and so he allows it to continue. But don't think for a moment that wasn't her plan all along. Hell, she's used half of Sybil's personalities trying to find the right way in. This person seems incapable of caring about anything but her own selfish needs and desires, and you've littered 47 pages with the breadcrumbs of evidence. If she was capable of even an iota of self-suffering, she wouldn't be trying to set up a doggy visit while you're trying to get on with your life. To your face she's telling you her trivial desire to pet that dog is more important to her than you, and your mental state. Think about that for a moment and recognize the person you're dealing with here. Keep posting updates because it is entertaining, but for the love of god, don't be so naive. Until you recognize blatant manipulation, and recognize the soul-less blackhole of a person you're dealing with, you'll be strung along regardless of what you do, or don't do.And FWIW - Your description of her and your 6th grade crush and commandeering your friend list is almost cliche; the people who can't be trusted are those same people who find everyone else untrustworthy. They assume everyone is as conniving and deceiptful as themselves. You shouldn't put any faith in someone like that under any circumstances.
WoW!! This guy knows something 16. Best post yet.
 
If she fell in love and married that guy it would hurt, but good for her. It would actually make it easier for me to say she left me for her husband instead of a #####. I would still move on just like I'm doing now. The thing is I wouldn't know until someone told me because she wouldn't text me and I don't have any contact other then her texts.
My god you're in denial.
 
icon may be over the top, but he's hitting the nail on the head in here. While 16 should block calls and keep the $#@&ing dog, none of that is going to lead to closure on this. This crazy will eventually wind up on his doorstep kicking and screaming until she gets exactly what she wants. What is the most troubling is 16 doesn't recognize obvious manipulative attempts to keep him captive as.... just that. He thinks he's getting upperhand, receiving legit remorse. It makes him feel better about himself, and so he allows it to continue. But don't think for a moment that wasn't her plan all along. Hell, she's used half of Sybil's personalities trying to find the right way in. This person seems incapable of caring about anything but her own selfish needs and desires, and you've littered 47 pages with the breadcrumbs of evidence. If she was capable of even an iota of self-suffering, she wouldn't be trying to set up a doggy visit while you're trying to get on with your life. To your face she's telling you her trivial desire to pet that dog is more important to her than you, and your mental state. Think about that for a moment and recognize the person you're dealing with here. Keep posting updates because it is entertaining, but for the love of god, don't be so naive. Until you recognize blatant manipulation, and recognize the soul-less blackhole of a person you're dealing with, you'll be strung along regardless of what you do, or don't do.And FWIW - Your description of her and your 6th grade crush and commandeering your friend list is almost cliche; the people who can't be trusted are those same people who find everyone else untrustworthy. They assume everyone is as conniving and deceiptful as themselves. You shouldn't put any faith in someone like that under any circumstances.
Now this I understand and can get behind. However, what's crazy is that everyone in this thread thinks she is the freaking devil and puppet master. Now I get you guys are trying to help me out so you maybe exaggerating, probably it is the wisdom of prior experience, or that you guys have an untainted viewpoint as an outside observer but why does everything have to be some type of manipulation on her part? You guys are likely right that she's trying to get me back.... but to completely dismiss it all as selfish manipulation is a bit extreme and hard to swallow. To accept that is basically saying everything I FELT during the relationship was a due to her manipulation and deceit. That I offer nothing of value to her despite being her BF for 7 years and us having talks about the future. That it is impossible she could truly regret leaving me because of the qualities I possess and the way I handled the relationship. That during these 7 years we were never truly happy... that she just manipulated everything to feed her selfishness.I'm not saying you guys are wrong about her motives right now or the basic advice, but to truly accept that viewpoint 100% means I have/had nothing she desires except for my attention. How is that supposed to make any feel any better? Yah... she just wants you because you are there (probably the case, but it can't be everything).How I view it: She made a mistake leaving me for dude. Now she realizes that she ####ed up. However, in that time I realized she is crazy, there are other women out there, and not to mention she ####### left me for a ####### stranger after 7 years together. Why does it need to be more than that? How come for you guys those reasons are not good enough for me to move on? Why do I have to condemn her as manipulative temptress to move on? I'm a person who hates hate, anger, and basically all negative energy. People make decisions. Every decision has a consequence. She decided to cheat on me. So now I don't ever want to be with her again because I can never trust her. Simple as that. Does it really need to be anymore?I understand what you guys are saying about blocking her texts in order to not even waste a nano second devoted to her, but why do I have to turn her into the spawn of Satan to convince you guys I'm moving on (not that it should matter anyways)?
 
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:goodposting: though, again, harsh.

Also: :lmao: at the bolded.
We've got 50 ####### pages of you guys whispering that he's an idiot.... telling him he's an idiot.... yelling that he's an idiot..... shaking him and telling him that he's an idiot....slapping him and telling him he's an idiot.....

Someone needs to break out the rebar and start doing work on this kid's skull because nothing else seems to be getting through. It's sad. :lmao:
:penalty: I did this already in #2420.

 
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, but you cannot look back with the rose colored glasses. We aren't saying 7 years was a lie, you had good moments. But this is not meant to be, move on.

 
icon may be over the top, but he's hitting the nail on the head in here. While 16 should block calls and keep the $#@&ing dog, none of that is going to lead to closure on this. This crazy will eventually wind up on his doorstep kicking and screaming until she gets exactly what she wants. What is the most troubling is 16 doesn't recognize obvious manipulative attempts to keep him captive as.... just that. He thinks he's getting upperhand, receiving legit remorse. It makes him feel better about himself, and so he allows it to continue. But don't think for a moment that wasn't her plan all along. Hell, she's used half of Sybil's personalities trying to find the right way in. This person seems incapable of caring about anything but her own selfish needs and desires, and you've littered 47 pages with the breadcrumbs of evidence. If she was capable of even an iota of self-suffering, she wouldn't be trying to set up a doggy visit while you're trying to get on with your life. To your face she's telling you her trivial desire to pet that dog is more important to her than you, and your mental state. Think about that for a moment and recognize the person you're dealing with here.

Keep posting updates because it is entertaining, but for the love of god, don't be so naive. Until you recognize blatant manipulation, and recognize the soul-less blackhole of a person you're dealing with, you'll be strung along regardless of what you do, or don't do.

And FWIW - Your description of her and your 6th grade crush and commandeering your friend list is almost cliche; the people who can't be trusted are those same people who find everyone else untrustworthy. They assume everyone is as conniving and deceiptful as themselves. You shouldn't put any faith in someone like that under any circumstances.
Now this I understand and can get behind. However, what's crazy is that everyone in this thread thinks she is the freaking devil and puppet master. Now I get you guys are trying to help me out so you maybe exaggerating, probably it is the wisdom of prior experience, or that you guys have an untainted viewpoint as an outside observer but why does everything have to be some type of manipulation on her part? You guys are likely right that she's trying to get me back.... but to completely dismiss it all as selfish manipulation is a bit extreme and hard to swallow.

To accept that is basically saying everything I FELT during the relationship was a due to her manipulation and deceit. That I offer nothing of value to her despite being her BF for 7 years and us having talks about the future. That it is impossible she could truly regret leaving me because of the qualities I possess and the way I handled the relationship. That during these 7 years we were never truly happy... that she just manipulated everything to feed her selfishness.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong about her motives right now or the basic advice, but to truly accept that viewpoint 100% means I have/had nothing she desires except for my attention. How is that supposed to make any feel any better? Yah... she just wants you because you are there (probably the case, but it can't be everything).

How I view it: She made a mistake leaving me for dude. Now she realizes that she ####ed up. However, in that time I realized she is crazy, there are other women out there, and not to mention she ####### left me for a ####### stranger after 7 years together.

Why does it need to be more than that? How come for you guys those reasons are not good enough for me to move on? Why do I have to condemn her as manipulative temptress to move on?

I'm a person who hates hate, anger, and basically all negative energy. People make decisions. Every decision has a consequence. She decided to cheat on me. So now I don't ever want to be with her again because I can never trust her. Simple as that. Does it really need to be anymore?

I understand what you guys are saying about blocking her texts in order to not even waste a nano second devoted to her, but why do I have to turn her into the spawn of Satan to convince you guys I'm moving on (not that it should matter anyways)?
You're finally asking the right questions and realizing what's being said but just having a hard time grasping it as true. Read the bolded above.It is absolutely selfish manipulation. From the inside, you don't see that, but her texts and actions at this point are SCREAMING her true self and her intentions. Every single person here reading them sees it except you.

Was it 100% of why she was with you? No, not 100%. Probably just 98%. But women like her (and yes, she's a pretty typical "type) crave attention and not much more. When they stop getting it from you, they look elsewhere for it. Enter PT. She's not trying to come back to you now because you're an amazing catch. You may be a wonderful guy, a great lay, fantastic dancer, but the reason she's coming back is for the attention she used to get that she's no longer getting from PT. That's it. Nothing more. Until you come to terms with this, you won't be able to move on.

You think she realizes she ####ed up? Sorry bud, that's not it. PT has dropped her and she's going back to get what she needs and you're the one person she can count on to give it to her. Attention and someone that will bow down and do whatever she needs or wants. And if you do it, she'll happily lap it up until the next piece of sweaty meat decides to make her his toy and she'll run off again for some new attention. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

As others have mentioned, consider yourself lucky. VERY lucky. Women like this feel they are God's gift to men and are entitled to being put on a pedestal. What you thought was "true love" couldn't be farther from the truth. For you, it may have seemed that way. Not to her. Until you come to terms with that, you'll keep thinking that she "made a mistake". There's a reason the FFA has been UNANIMOUS with its thoughts on her and it's not shtick or attempts at humor. It comes from going around the block many more times than you have. Seen it before. So has pretty much everyone else in here except you. From the beginning you've been trying to deny what's been told here to you and every time, without fail, you've failed to be correct.

The reason this thread is as long as it is and why people keep responding isn't because it's humorous or fun. It's actually sad. But, people here are actually trying to help you. And it's the right people because you can't find anyone else more objective. Your friends and family have a skewed viewpoint as well. Here you get the cold hard truth and facts. You have since day 1 and it's been completely accurate up until this point. Take the advice for once. Listen to what's being told. Your view of the relationship and what it really was are 2 completely different things. Yours is a fantasy. Post after post after post here is reality. You should join reality sometime. It's fun over here.

 
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So last night at work my ex texted me and instead of ignoring her completely like I did last time I thought I would take the civil approach that raiderfan and someone else mentioned. Well, let's just say there's a reason why I didn't even want to reply.Backstory: I have our dog. The place she's staying at doesn't allow pets. So our dog now lives with me in my parents house and their 2 dogs. The dog my ex and I bought has actually lived at my parents house for 4/5 past years while we in college living in apartments. Only last year when the ex and I got a place did the dog live alone and she was sad. About two weeks after we broke up she asked if she could take the dog and leave it at her parents house in SoCal and I said hell no. It's my damn dog too.Fast forward to last night. I'm on break at work and I get a text as I am surfing Facebook.Paraphrase first part since I got angry and deleted messages.Ex: Can I see [dog] for my birthday? I'll leave you something. Promise I'll bring her back.Me: [taking nice guy route] Sure. You can see her, but I can't leave her alone with you. I can't trust that you won't take her to your parents.. We can meet or I can have my GB watch while you see our dog.The ex then gets pissed. I also tell her that the dog just gave birth to still born puppies. She didn't know she was pregnant and now starts say mean things about me and my family for keeping the dog and not telling her about the pregnancy and birth. I then reply telling her to not disrepect my family since they all loved her and to please leave me alone and never contact me. Really pissed me off. Before I knew it I wasted my 45 minute break dealing with this mess.Gott some downtime at work a few hours later and found this reply:Ex: "I'm sorry for being disrespectful to your family. Just upset that you didn't tell me about my dog when it happened and you would have never told me that she had stillborns. That's very rude of you. I'm sorry for what has happened between us. I really hope you can be happy with your life and everything that goes on with it. I really do feel bad with your situation and I hope things get better for you. I don't hate you and I hope you don't hate me. I just hope we can move on with our lives and if we happen to cross paths in the future we will be civilwith each other. Take care No.16"Then I reply:Me: "Thank you. Don't worry about my situation. It's my mess, but I'll get through it. Honestly I wish I could talk to you about a lot of things... Not just [dog] but we're not together anymore. So please don't hold that against me. I need to move on and in order to be completely happy I can't talk to you at all. So please understand and respect that. Thank you. Happy Birthday. Hope your happy, just realize you deserve someone who will treat you like a princess and devote all their love and attention to you and only you. You're to special to be fighting for it."As you can see I became a big giant ######. That's why I shouldn't even reply to her texts. I then finish up the rest of my work shift. After work I check my phone and she sent another text.Ex: "I know it's not my place bc of our situation and I'll completely respect your wishes in order for you to move on and be happy. But if you ever feel like there is absolutely no one there for you and you feel completely alone please don't hesitate to call me. Despite what has happened between us, we were best friends for years and I probably understand you more than anyone. And same goes for you about me. But like I said, I'll completely respect your wishes. Take care No. 16"So I see this and emotions start to stir up. When I found out I would orient to a Med-surg floor the other day the first person I wanted to share the news with was her. I told my parents, friends, Facebook, and you guys here but I still felt empty. I know I need to get over her, but this was a huge step for my career and I always imagined I'd have her as a resource when I did get into Med/surg since that's where she's been working the past year. I wasn't going to tell her the news despite what I felt but as I was sitting in my car with this ball of emotion fighting to escape Maxwell's "This Woman's Work" (guaranteed tear jerker) comes on and that just puts me over the top. I start bawling like a little baby and I decided to send her this text as tears hit my iphone:Me: "I just need to share one last thing. I know you probably don't care, but I just finished orienting to PM on a medical floor! When I found out yesterday I would finally orient on a med-surg floor all I wanted to do was share the news with you. Wish you were still with me to guide me. I still miss you, although I know can never trust you again. Thanks. Take care."No matter if she replied or not. I felt a lot better afterwards. I don't know why but it felt good just telling her the news. God I turn into such a #####. I guess I just had to let those feelings out.I drive home in a somber trance. Just listening to all the slow jams playing on the radio. Once I get home she replies back: Ex: "Why wouldn't I care!? I am so proud of you, No. 16! That is so great! Thank you for sharing that with me. I know you didn't have to but I'm thankful you did. Great to hear you're expanding your experience in nursing. I knew you can do it. You're very smart and amazing nurse. Just remember everything will come with experience. I wish I could with you all my stories. I was pretty proud of myself today for deciding on transferring a pt based on my assessment and based on a previous pt who had similar symptoms. I was quite proud of myself :) Times like this I wish I could tell you bc you understood the feeling. And I know it's all my fault to mess everything up. I'm sorry.I know that you'll do great in med-surge and hopefully you will figure out what you're ultimate goal is from there. Take care No.16. Good luck with everything. And remember just keep smiling & just be happy :) "I read the text as I lay in bed, but I never replied. I felt "fine" again after I had texted her the news. That's all I had wanted. I finally closed my eyes and went to sleep that night. Then around 600 I receive another text from her:EX: "I don't miss you as my boyfriend but I really do miss you as my friend but I know that is not possible any time soon. I'll stop contacting you now but please don't hesitate to contact me if you ever feel alone. Take care No. 16. Bye."And that's where our conversation has ended. I don't ever intend to open any lines of communication in the future until I have a smoking hot girl as my GF and am completely over her. I will never trust her so I will move on. However, this is probably the first convo we had since we broke up that ended pleasantly. Although the convo started out rough, at least I know she doesn't hate me and still has some type of heart. She knows I want to move on.I post this today because I know you guys will probably roast the hell out of me, but that conversation felt like the closure that both of us needed. I was really emotional last night, but once morning came and I read that text I just felt "nothing" for once.
This is where you really blew it, imo. You started up a friendship again. You opened the door for her. Had you already blocked her at this time, you'd have far less drama right now.All or nothing...make a choice.
 
Finally hate my ex-gf.Found out she went to Hawaii with her sister (who she told me about), her sisters BF, and personal trainer. What a ####in #####. #### her! ETA: Hawaii trip was for our 7 year anniversary.Feels good to actually hate her. It makes it so much easier to move on now. Also met up with HI chick at Dave and Busters last night for a few drinks. Was out there with friends and invited her over. She didn't get too drunk and drove her own car so she wasn't DTF. Chick is playing games. I'll play along since the chase is half the fun.Going out tonight and tomorrow. Tomorrow will be interesting. Going to wingman for a friend for a group of 3 viet chicks. The girls have a hotel room across the street from the club and invited us to pre-party there. If that doesn't scream DTF I don't know what does.
Remember how you felt at this point? You should still feel this way.If you don't, think about how she went away on YOUR vacation on YOUR anniversary with some strange dude.If THAT doesn't work, think about her spread eagle, being drilled by her man. All sweaty and sore from being pounded, and sticky from all the loads dropped on her face and belly.If THAT doesn't work, imagine his #### in her mouth and her hungrily blowing him like she never would with you. With passion. With feeling. With love. Still think she isn't evil and a total ##### you could never forgive?Well if that's the case STILL, then you might as well take her back right now, because it's inevitable.However, once you do take her back, be prepared for your feelings of mistrust towards her, and your inevitable inability to ever look at her again with any modicum of respect. Get your head out of your ###, and go #### her sister as soon as possible.
 
Now this I understand and can get behind.

However, what's crazy is that everyone in this thread thinks she is the freaking devil and puppet master. Now I get you guys are trying to help me out so you maybe exaggerating, probably it is the wisdom of prior experience, or that you guys have an untainted viewpoint as an outside observer but why does everything have to be some type of manipulation on her part? You guys are likely right that she's trying to get me back.... but to completely dismiss it all as selfish manipulation is a bit extreme and hard to swallow.

To accept that is basically saying everything I FELT during the relationship was a due to her manipulation and deceit. That I offer nothing of value to her despite being her BF for 7 years and us having talks about the future. That it is impossible she could truly regret leaving me because of the qualities I possess and the way I handled the relationship. That during these 7 years we were never truly happy... that she just manipulated everything to feed her selfishness.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong about her motives right now or the basic advice, but to truly accept that viewpoint 100% means I have/had nothing she desires except for my attention. How is that supposed to make any feel any better? Yah... she just wants you because you are there (probably the case, but it can't be everything).

How I view it: She made a mistake leaving me for dude. Now she realizes that she ####ed up. However, in that time I realized she is crazy, there are other women out there, and not to mention she ####### left me for a ####### stranger after 7 years together.

Why does it need to be more than that? How come for you guys those reasons are not good enough for me to move on? Why do I have to condemn her as manipulative temptress to move on?

I'm a person who hates hate, anger, and basically all negative energy. People make decisions. Every decision has a consequence. She decided to cheat on me. So now I don't ever want to be with her again because I can never trust her. Simple as that. Does it really need to be anymore?

I understand what you guys are saying about blocking her texts in order to not even waste a nano second devoted to her, but why do I have to turn her into the spawn of Satan to convince you guys I'm moving on (not that it should matter anyways)?
Gianmarco put it very well a few posts above, but I'll put in my two cents. I haven't really posted much, but have been following along fairly closely as, like I said, I've watched a close friend go through the exact same process and been his pseudo-psychologist during the whole thing...and it's hard for me to watch.My opinion may be slightly different than others, but the end result is the same. I don't think she's the spawn of satan. I don't think she's an intentionally evil person. I'm sure you two had some good years together, and your entire 7-year relationship was not some sort of sham. I don't think my friend's ex (as referenced above) is an evil person either, though I hate her and she knows it.

I don't think that she is intentionally trying to string you along with the intent of dropping you once another PT comes along. Honestly, she probably does miss you and miss the good times you had. But when another PT comes along, and he will - SHE WILL DO THIS TO YOU AGAIN. Once a cheater, always a cheater. She cheated on her ex with you. She cheated on you with PT. Her sisters have a history of similarly-damaged relationships. Her responses haven't been remorseful - she's still chasing after the PT, per your friend's GF. She thinks she can have you back if she tries hard enough. She even said "I don't miss you as my boyfriend".

So why does any of this matter?

Because despite all that you've said otherwise in this thread, your actions and descriptions really lead me to believe that you want her back. I'm pretty sure everyone else in here can see this too, one guy even referenced it as "he doth protest too much" recently. That's fine. I'm not going to judge you for missing what you believed was a good relationship. But what we're all trying to tell you is that even though you're telling us that you're over her - YOU'RE NOT. And we're trying to save you the heartache of what we can all see coming if you two were to get back together.

At the end of the day, only you can make those decisions. Honestly, if I were you, I'd probably shut this thread down and take some time to really be honest with myself. You've gotta lead your own life, and having a bunch of guys on the internet badgering you probably isn't helping you deal with this. Just my two cents.

 
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Now this I understand and can get behind.

However, what's crazy is that everyone in this thread thinks she is the freaking devil and puppet master. Now I get you guys are trying to help me out so you maybe exaggerating, probably it is the wisdom of prior experience, or that you guys have an untainted viewpoint as an outside observer but why does everything have to be some type of manipulation on her part? You guys are likely right that she's trying to get me back.... but to completely dismiss it all as selfish manipulation is a bit extreme and hard to swallow.

To accept that is basically saying everything I FELT during the relationship was a due to her manipulation and deceit. That I offer nothing of value to her despite being her BF for 7 years and us having talks about the future. That it is impossible she could truly regret leaving me because of the qualities I possess and the way I handled the relationship. That during these 7 years we were never truly happy... that she just manipulated everything to feed her selfishness.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong about her motives right now or the basic advice, but to truly accept that viewpoint 100% means I have/had nothing she desires except for my attention. How is that supposed to make any feel any better? Yah... she just wants you because you are there (probably the case, but it can't be everything).

How I view it: She made a mistake leaving me for dude. Now she realizes that she ####ed up. However, in that time I realized she is crazy, there are other women out there, and not to mention she ####### left me for a ####### stranger after 7 years together.

Why does it need to be more than that? How come for you guys those reasons are not good enough for me to move on? Why do I have to condemn her as manipulative temptress to move on?

I'm a person who hates hate, anger, and basically all negative energy. People make decisions. Every decision has a consequence. She decided to cheat on me. So now I don't ever want to be with her again because I can never trust her. Simple as that. Does it really need to be anymore?

I understand what you guys are saying about blocking her texts in order to not even waste a nano second devoted to her, but why do I have to turn her into the spawn of Satan to convince you guys I'm moving on (not that it should matter anyways)?
Gianmarco put it very well a few posts above, but I'll put in my two cents. I haven't really posted much, but have been following along fairly closely as, like I said, I've watched a close friend go through the exact same process and been his pseudo-psychologist during the whole thing...and it's hard for me to watch.My opinion may be slightly different than others, but the end result is the same. I don't think she's the spawn of satan. I don't think she's an intentionally evil person. I'm sure you two had some good years together, and your entire 7-year relationship was not some sort of sham. I don't think my friend's ex (as referenced above) is an evil person either, though I hate her and she knows it.

I don't think that she is intentionally trying to string you along with the intent of dropping you once another PT comes along. Honestly, she probably does miss you and miss the good times you had. But when another PT comes along, and he will - SHE WILL DO THIS TO YOU AGAIN. Once a cheater, always a cheater. She cheated on her ex with you. She cheated on you with PT. Her sisters have a history of similarly-damaged relationships. Her responses haven't been remorseful - she's still chasing after the PT, per your friend's GF. She thinks she can have you back if she tries hard enough. She even said "I don't miss you as my boyfriend".

So why does any of this matter?

Because despite all that you've said otherwise in this thread, your actions and descriptions really lead me to believe that you want her back. I'm pretty sure everyone else in here can see this too, one guy even referenced it as "he doth protest too much" recently. That's fine. I'm not going to judge you for missing what you believed was a good relationship. But what we're all trying to tell you is that even though you're telling us that you're over her - YOU'RE NOT. And we're trying to save you the heartache of what we can all see coming if you two were to get back together.

At the end of the day, only you can make those decisions. Honestly, if I were you, I'd probably shut this thread down and take some time to really be honest with myself. You've gotta lead your own life, and having a bunch of guys on the internet badgering you probably isn't helping you deal with this. Just my two cents.
:goodposting:
 
To be clear I never said I was completely over her yet. However, I'm determined to move on and I'm making progress towards that goal. I have a new daily routine, I'm making plans for future, I no longer mind being alone again, and I know I'll find someone else.

Now some have suggested that I remember all the heartache she caused me by lying, going to Hawaii, etc. I did that and it just makes me resent her. Others have suggested I visualize all the dirty things the PT has done to her....I used to do that all the time and it just made me sick to my stomach. I have felt those emotions many times over. I know what it feels like, I remember who caused it, and I know they are very real. However, doing those things just makes my day worse. Fills my life with negative energy that I don't want around me as I journey forward. Doesn't mean I'm denying them, but they have their time and their place. Doing those things are great in moments of weakness (when I start to think about getting back with her or want to reply to her texts), but are detrimental to my mental well being if pure emotion was all I used to guide my progress.

So now what drives my motivation to move on is logic based. Those who say look to the past the signs were there all along. Agreed. Look to the future with her....you'll never trust her and she'll do it again. Agreed. Simple. Logical. Emotionless. This is what drives me to move on for the most part and it's made my life easier to live and more enjoyable.

Her number is blocked because I do agree it's time to pretend she no longer exists. Even though her texts have helped me feel better I'd be lying if i didn't say look forward to them. I thought I did enough by just not replying, but once you guys made me realize that I still crave her attention I knew it was time to block her.

So we'll see where this thread goes from here. Life is pretty normal right now. Thanks guys.

 
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I just don't understand why you don't want to post a pic.
It's the freakin internets. I've tried to be discreet but I've still given up a lot of info in here that someone could probably stalk us if they wanted. Not saying most would do that...but it only takes one psycho. I couldn't do that to her without her consent/knowledge particularly since she's the bad guy. Now the new women that will enter my life will have to take a picture for my online friends to be even considered.
 
Her number is blocked because I do agree it's time to pretend she no longer exists. Even though her texts have helped me feel better I'd be lying if i didn't say look forward to them. I thought I did enough by just not replying, but once you guys made me realize that I still crave her attention I knew it was time to block her.
Good job. You'll find this to be a very positive move. For the record I'm not in the camp that she's an evil psycho and that your whole relationship was worthless. But she has more than proven herself unforgivably flawed and unworthy of any further commitment and attention - she's become a serious negative. The only thing to do in a case like that is to put her completely behind you and out of your life, at least for a very long stretch into the foreseeable future.
 
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Her number is blocked because I do agree it's time to pretend she no longer exists. Even though her texts have helped me feel better I'd be lying if i didn't say look forward to them. I thought I did enough by just not replying, but once you guys made me realize that I still crave her attention I knew it was time to block her.
Good job. You'll find this to be a very positive move. For the record I'm not in the camp that she's a worthless psycho and that your whole relationship was worthless. But she has more than proven herself unforgivably flawed and unworthy of any further commitment and attention - she's become a serious negative. The only thing to do in a case like that is to put her completely behind you and out of your life, at least for a very long stretch into the foreseeable future.
:goodposting: this is the more succinct version of what I was getting at.
 
To be clear I never said I was completely over her yet. However, I'm determined to move on and I'm making progress towards that goal. I have a new daily routine, I'm making plans for future, I no longer mind being alone again, and I know I'll find someone else.Now some have suggested that I remember all the heartache she caused me by lying, going to Hawaii, etc. I did that and it just makes me resent her. Others have suggested I visualize all the dirty things the PT has done to her....I used to do that all the time and it just made me sick to my stomach. I have felt those emotions many times over. I know what it feels like, I remember who caused it, and I know they are very real. However, doing those things just makes my day worse. Fills my life with negative energy that I don't want around me as I journey forward. Doesn't mean I'm denying them, but they have their time and their place. Doing those things are great in moments of weakness (when I start to think about getting back with her or want to reply to her texts), but are detrimental to my mental well being if pure emotion was all I used to guide my progress.So now what drives my motivation to move on is logic based. Those who say look to the past the signs were there all along. Agreed. Look to the future with her....you'll never trust her and she'll do it again. Agreed. Simple. Logical. Emotionless. This is what drives me to move on for the most part and it's made my life easier to live and more enjoyable.Her number is blocked because I do agree it's time to pretend she no longer exists. Even though her texts have helped me feel better I'd be lying if i didn't say look forward to them. I thought I did enough by just not replying, but once you guys made me realize that I still crave her attention I knew it was time to block her.So we'll see where this thread goes from here. Life is pretty normal right now. Thanks guys.
:goodposting: I don't like where this is going for entertainment value, but I like your reasoning here...finally. Good luck buddy.
 
Her number is blocked because I do agree it's time to pretend she no longer exists. Even though her texts have helped me feel better I'd be lying if i didn't say look forward to them. I thought I did enough by just not replying, but once you guys made me realize that I still crave her attention I knew it was time to block her.
Good job. You'll find this to be a very positive move. For the record I'm not in the camp that she's an evil psycho and that your whole relationship was worthless. But she has more than proven herself unforgivably flawed and unworthy of any further commitment and attention - she's become a serious negative. The only thing to do in a case like that is to put her completely behind you and out of your life, at least for a very long stretch into the foreseeable future. for good.
:goodposting: actually enabling the block and sticking to a no-contact rule is a good step for you. Congrats. It's most definitely for the best.

 
Her number is blocked because I do agree it's time to pretend she no longer exists. Even though her texts have helped me feel better I'd be lying if i didn't say look forward to them. I thought I did enough by just not replying, but once you guys made me realize that I still crave her attention I knew it was time to block her.
Good job. You'll find this to be a very positive move. For the record I'm not in the camp that she's an evil psycho and that your whole relationship was worthless. But she has more than proven herself unforgivably flawed and unworthy of any further commitment and attention - she's become a serious negative. The only thing to do in a case like that is to put her completely behind you and out of your life, at least for a very long stretch into the foreseeable future. for good.
:goodposting: actually enabling the block and sticking to a no-contact rule is a good step for you. Congrats. It's most definitely for the best.
I only put the time qualifier in because I know that if No.16 sticks with this, he'll eventually get to a place where he could handle encountering this person without being tempted to get back with her. It'll take a while, but he'll get there, and he'll be in a great place in his life when he does.
 
OK, No. 16 - perhaps what you need is a paradigm shift. As I posted earlier, I'm an old, married FBG, and I told you that were extremely lucky on two counts: 1) You didn't hurt or kill anyone while driving under the influence, and 2) you found out about this gal before you were married w/childrenIf you had gotten married and had children, one thing I can tell you is that having a child is a completely life-changing event. From that moment on, your life and all of your wants & dreams & goals, become secondary to those of your child. And this happens with your complete knowledge & consent. It is an intense, all-consuming love that you cannot fathom until it happens to you. It's hard to describe adequately, but trust me that this will happen to you when you become a dad.Now, jump forward twenty years or so, and imagine that you have a son, and he means the world to you. And imagine that he had gone through exactly what you have just gone through with your ex, and he is basically re-living the hell you just went through. And of course you want to help him. Now, with that paradigm, I want you to re-read BigJim's post, because it is one of best posts written in this 50+ page thread. Read it again with a fresh mind.

icon may be over the top, but he's hitting the nail on the head in here. While 16 should block calls and keep the $#@&ing dog, none of that is going to lead to closure on this. This crazy will eventually wind up on his doorstep kicking and screaming until she gets exactly what she wants. What is the most troubling is 16 doesn't recognize obvious manipulative attempts to keep him captive as.... just that. He thinks he's getting upperhand, receiving legit remorse. It makes him feel better about himself, and so he allows it to continue. But don't think for a moment that wasn't her plan all along. Hell, she's used half of Sybil's personalities trying to find the right way in. This person seems incapable of caring about anything but her own selfish needs and desires, and you've littered 47 pages with the breadcrumbs of evidence. If she was capable of even an iota of self-suffering, she wouldn't be trying to set up a doggy visit while you're trying to get on with your life. To your face she's telling you her trivial desire to pet that dog is more important to her than you, and your mental state. Think about that for a moment and recognize the person you're dealing with here. Keep posting updates because it is entertaining, but for the love of god, don't be so naive. Until you recognize blatant manipulation, and recognize the soul-less blackhole of a person you're dealing with, you'll be strung along regardless of what you do, or don't do.And FWIW - Your description of her and your 6th grade crush and commandeering your friend list is almost cliche; the people who can't be trusted are those same people who find everyone else untrustworthy. They assume everyone is as conniving and deceiptful as themselves. You shouldn't put any faith in someone like that under any circumstances.
I repeat: you were lucky that all you got was a DUI, and you were even luckier that you found out about her before your relationship was even further along. Count your blessings, listen to the good advice given in this thread, and good luck going forward. You have the tools and hopefully now, the knowledge & experience, to go after what you truly want & deserve.
 
'UniAlias said:
'Steve Tasker said:
'No. 16 said:
Now this I understand and can get behind.

However, what's crazy is that everyone in this thread thinks she is the freaking devil and puppet master. Now I get you guys are trying to help me out so you maybe exaggerating, probably it is the wisdom of prior experience, or that you guys have an untainted viewpoint as an outside observer but why does everything have to be some type of manipulation on her part? You guys are likely right that she's trying to get me back.... but to completely dismiss it all as selfish manipulation is a bit extreme and hard to swallow.

To accept that is basically saying everything I FELT during the relationship was a due to her manipulation and deceit. That I offer nothing of value to her despite being her BF for 7 years and us having talks about the future. That it is impossible she could truly regret leaving me because of the qualities I possess and the way I handled the relationship. That during these 7 years we were never truly happy... that she just manipulated everything to feed her selfishness.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong about her motives right now or the basic advice, but to truly accept that viewpoint 100% means I have/had nothing she desires except for my attention. How is that supposed to make any feel any better? Yah... she just wants you because you are there (probably the case, but it can't be everything).

How I view it: She made a mistake leaving me for dude. Now she realizes that she ####ed up. However, in that time I realized she is crazy, there are other women out there, and not to mention she ####### left me for a ####### stranger after 7 years together.

Why does it need to be more than that? How come for you guys those reasons are not good enough for me to move on? Why do I have to condemn her as manipulative temptress to move on?

I'm a person who hates hate, anger, and basically all negative energy. People make decisions. Every decision has a consequence. She decided to cheat on me. So now I don't ever want to be with her again because I can never trust her. Simple as that. Does it really need to be anymore?

I understand what you guys are saying about blocking her texts in order to not even waste a nano second devoted to her, but why do I have to turn her into the spawn of Satan to convince you guys I'm moving on (not that it should matter anyways)?
Gianmarco put it very well a few posts above, but I'll put in my two cents. I haven't really posted much, but have been following along fairly closely as, like I said, I've watched a close friend go through the exact same process and been his pseudo-psychologist during the whole thing...and it's hard for me to watch.My opinion may be slightly different than others, but the end result is the same. I don't think she's the spawn of satan. I don't think she's an intentionally evil person. I'm sure you two had some good years together, and your entire 7-year relationship was not some sort of sham. I don't think my friend's ex (as referenced above) is an evil person either, though I hate her and she knows it.

I don't think that she is intentionally trying to string you along with the intent of dropping you once another PT comes along. Honestly, she probably does miss you and miss the good times you had. But when another PT comes along, and he will - SHE WILL DO THIS TO YOU AGAIN. Once a cheater, always a cheater. She cheated on her ex with you. She cheated on you with PT. Her sisters have a history of similarly-damaged relationships. Her responses haven't been remorseful - she's still chasing after the PT, per your friend's GF. She thinks she can have you back if she tries hard enough. She even said "I don't miss you as my boyfriend".

So why does any of this matter?

Because despite all that you've said otherwise in this thread, your actions and descriptions really lead me to believe that you want her back. I'm pretty sure everyone else in here can see this too, one guy even referenced it as "he doth protest too much" recently. That's fine. I'm not going to judge you for missing what you believed was a good relationship. But what we're all trying to tell you is that even though you're telling us that you're over her - YOU'RE NOT. And we're trying to save you the heartache of what we can all see coming if you two were to get back together.

At the end of the day, only you can make those decisions. Honestly, if I were you, I'd probably shut this thread down and take some time to really be honest with myself. You've gotta lead your own life, and having a bunch of guys on the internet badgering you probably isn't helping you deal with this. Just my two cents.
:goodposting:
The bolded and blue is actually very ironic. She did it with you, yet you are shocked that should would do it to you. Unreal.

 
I just don't understand why you don't want to post a pic.
It's the freakin internets. I've tried to be discreet but I've still given up a lot of info in here that someone could probably stalk us if they wanted. Not saying most would do that...but it only takes one psycho. I couldn't do that to her without her consent/knowledge particularly since she's the bad guy. Now the new women that will enter my life will have to take a picture for my online friends to be even considered.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: I have posted pics of myself and wife on this site.....You should probably be ok....
 
I just don't understand why you don't want to post a pic.
It's the freakin internets. I've tried to be discreet but I've still given up a lot of info in here that someone could probably stalk us if they wanted. Not saying most would do that...but it only takes one psycho. I couldn't do that to her without her consent/knowledge particularly since she's the bad guy. Now the new women that will enter my life will have to take a picture for my online friends to be even considered.
You have this backwards.
 
'jamny said:
So last night at work my ex texted me and instead of ignoring her completely like I did last time I thought I would take the civil approach that raiderfan and someone else mentioned. Well, let's just say there's a reason why I didn't even want to reply.Backstory: I have our dog. The place she's staying at doesn't allow pets. So our dog now lives with me in my parents house and their 2 dogs. The dog my ex and I bought has actually lived at my parents house for 4/5 past years while we in college living in apartments. Only last year when the ex and I got a place did the dog live alone and she was sad. About two weeks after we broke up she asked if she could take the dog and leave it at her parents house in SoCal and I said hell no. It's my damn dog too.Fast forward to last night. I'm on break at work and I get a text as I am surfing Facebook.Paraphrase first part since I got angry and deleted messages.Ex: Can I see [dog] for my birthday? I'll leave you something. Promise I'll bring her back.Me: [taking nice guy route] Sure. You can see her, but I can't leave her alone with you. I can't trust that you won't take her to your parents.. We can meet or I can have my GB watch while you see our dog.The ex then gets pissed. I also tell her that the dog just gave birth to still born puppies. She didn't know she was pregnant and now starts say mean things about me and my family for keeping the dog and not telling her about the pregnancy and birth. I then reply telling her to not disrepect my family since they all loved her and to please leave me alone and never contact me. Really pissed me off. Before I knew it I wasted my 45 minute break dealing with this mess.Gott some downtime at work a few hours later and found this reply:Ex: "I'm sorry for being disrespectful to your family. Just upset that you didn't tell me about my dog when it happened and you would have never told me that she had stillborns. That's very rude of you. I'm sorry for what has happened between us. I really hope you can be happy with your life and everything that goes on with it. I really do feel bad with your situation and I hope things get better for you. I don't hate you and I hope you don't hate me. I just hope we can move on with our lives and if we happen to cross paths in the future we will be civilwith each other. Take care No.16"Then I reply:Me: "Thank you. Don't worry about my situation. It's my mess, but I'll get through it. Honestly I wish I could talk to you about a lot of things... Not just [dog] but we're not together anymore. So please don't hold that against me. I need to move on and in order to be completely happy I can't talk to you at all. So please understand and respect that. Thank you. Happy Birthday. Hope your happy, just realize you deserve someone who will treat you like a princess and devote all their love and attention to you and only you. You're to special to be fighting for it."As you can see I became a big giant ######. That's why I shouldn't even reply to her texts. I then finish up the rest of my work shift. After work I check my phone and she sent another text.Ex: "I know it's not my place bc of our situation and I'll completely respect your wishes in order for you to move on and be happy. But if you ever feel like there is absolutely no one there for you and you feel completely alone please don't hesitate to call me. Despite what has happened between us, we were best friends for years and I probably understand you more than anyone. And same goes for you about me. But like I said, I'll completely respect your wishes. Take care No. 16"So I see this and emotions start to stir up. When I found out I would orient to a Med-surg floor the other day the first person I wanted to share the news with was her. I told my parents, friends, Facebook, and you guys here but I still felt empty. I know I need to get over her, but this was a huge step for my career and I always imagined I'd have her as a resource when I did get into Med/surg since that's where she's been working the past year. I wasn't going to tell her the news despite what I felt but as I was sitting in my car with this ball of emotion fighting to escape Maxwell's "This Woman's Work" (guaranteed tear jerker) comes on and that just puts me over the top. I start bawling like a little baby and I decided to send her this text as tears hit my iphone:Me: "I just need to share one last thing. I know you probably don't care, but I just finished orienting to PM on a medical floor! When I found out yesterday I would finally orient on a med-surg floor all I wanted to do was share the news with you. Wish you were still with me to guide me. I still miss you, although I know can never trust you again. Thanks. Take care."No matter if she replied or not. I felt a lot better afterwards. I don't know why but it felt good just telling her the news. God I turn into such a #####. I guess I just had to let those feelings out.I drive home in a somber trance. Just listening to all the slow jams playing on the radio. Once I get home she replies back: Ex: "Why wouldn't I care!? I am so proud of you, No. 16! That is so great! Thank you for sharing that with me. I know you didn't have to but I'm thankful you did. Great to hear you're expanding your experience in nursing. I knew you can do it. You're very smart and amazing nurse. Just remember everything will come with experience. I wish I could with you all my stories. I was pretty proud of myself today for deciding on transferring a pt based on my assessment and based on a previous pt who had similar symptoms. I was quite proud of myself :) Times like this I wish I could tell you bc you understood the feeling. And I know it's all my fault to mess everything up. I'm sorry.I know that you'll do great in med-surge and hopefully you will figure out what you're ultimate goal is from there. Take care No.16. Good luck with everything. And remember just keep smiling & just be happy :) "I read the text as I lay in bed, but I never replied. I felt "fine" again after I had texted her the news. That's all I had wanted. I finally closed my eyes and went to sleep that night. Then around 600 I receive another text from her:EX: "I don't miss you as my boyfriend but I really do miss you as my friend but I know that is not possible any time soon. I'll stop contacting you now but please don't hesitate to contact me if you ever feel alone. Take care No. 16. Bye."And that's where our conversation has ended. I don't ever intend to open any lines of communication in the future until I have a smoking hot girl as my GF and am completely over her. I will never trust her so I will move on. However, this is probably the first convo we had since we broke up that ended pleasantly. Although the convo started out rough, at least I know she doesn't hate me and still has some type of heart. She knows I want to move on.I post this today because I know you guys will probably roast the hell out of me, but that conversation felt like the closure that both of us needed. I was really emotional last night, but once morning came and I read that text I just felt "nothing" for once.
This is where you really blew it, imo. You started up a friendship again. You opened the door for her. Had you already blocked her at this time, you'd have far less drama right now.All or nothing...make a choice.
God you are a soft pud. Just give her the dog.
 
The bolded and blue is actually very ironic. She did it with you, yet you are shocked that should would do it to you. Unreal.
She cheated on her BF of two years when they began dating in HS. They went to different colleges 5 hours apart. You chalk it up to her being young, immature, and just something that happens from the HS to college transition. Then you look at your relationship. We stayed together despite 2 years of long distance. Then we finished the nursing program together. We hunted for jobs together. Found them and finished the first years of our careers together. All along the way you we had fun, traveled together, made a bunch of new friends together, visited each other's family, our families meet each other, everyone thinks you two are the perfect couple, and you two have serious discussions and plans of the future now that your careers are set. 2012 was supposed to be the year we move forward as college sweethearts to young professionals ready to start a family. We were saving money to buy a house and I was planning on proposing to her.

Now I don't know how serious her and her ex were at that time.... but hell a whole lot went on during those 7 years that lasted longer than some marriages. Plus, I convinced myself her jealousy/clingyness was "true, never gonna leave you love."

Guess I was wrong.

 
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PSA: people that are insanely jealous, are usually über jealous because they are already doing, or have already done, what they are so jealous about.

Hth

You can spin it anyway you want, but you were the PT to some pour dude 8 years ago.

 
'No. 16 said:
You guys are likely right that she's trying to get me back....
See, that's the problem here. I certainly don't think she's trying to "get you back" in the sense you mean. I think she's keeping you on stand-by, but that doesn't mean you'll ever be more than a Plan B. That's not a statement that you are not worthy of more, but she said that in dumping your long term relationship for some stranger PT. Only reason she wasn't honest about the PT immediately is she hoped to keep you on stand-by more discreetly. It's her personality, and you've said she even tried to get her friend to do the same. Sounds to me like this is an individual who will always be looking for better, and sometimes even acting on it, whether she's technically "with you" or not. So yeah, whatever she does to keep you on stand-by, to me, is manipulative. If you want to be the stand-by some woman is settling for to meet her immediate needs while keeping her options open, then by all means go for it. It's right there waiting for you. Personally, I'd strive for more than that.One other thought while you're struggling with whether she is as manipulative as FBGs knows she is: I think you should give much, much, deeper thought on what sort of person might try to encourage her 'friend' to risk her own relationship to go for one of PT's buds? To me, her true motivations there, and her willingness to sacrifice friends in pursuit of her own selfish objectives, are pretty transparent.
 
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