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Indefinite Tampa Bay Bucs thread: Somehow not on the list of teams to never have won a Super Bowl


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  • 1 month later...

The Rays are awful.  The Lightning just re-signed Stammer.  On to the Bucs.  This thread was on page 18.  Figure it needed a bump anyway.

Positive outlook:

Lovie Smith and his archaic defensive philosophy are gone.  I don't think other NFL offenses are going to complete 70% against the 2016 Bucs.  Kwon Alexander returns after his 4 game suspension to end 2015.  His absence was obviously felt and highlighted by an 0-4 record in those games.  Robert Ayers and Brent Grimes bring experience and production to two levels of the defense where those aspects were severely lacking.  Then they front office goes out and doubles down on those veterans with two rookies who are top ten talents in Vernon Hargreaves and Noah Spence. 

Jameis Winston enters year two.  I truly think he is going to take massive strides in this offense.  Lovie and Koetter completely handcuffed him, deservedly so, for roughly half of the season if not longer in 2015.  The training wheels should be off, he will have a complete grasp of the offense, and there are multiple weapons at his disposal at all of the skill position groups.  Doug Martin was re-signed.  JR Sweezy is really the only addition of note to the offense, and he is set to replace the retired Logan Mankins.  The money usually plays, and Sweezy was well paid, but Kevin Pamphile filled in admirably in 2015 as well, and could be a nice swing player on the line.  Demar Dotson returns from Lovie Smith's ridiculous doghouse to start at right tackle.  Rookies Ali Marpet and Donovan Smith enter year two after starting and playing extremely well in 2015.  Finally, a front office has invested in the offensive line, and they are set to pay dividends.  I'm excited about Dan Vitale, a 6th round pick who played the "superback" position at Northwestern, is a great receiver and will hopefully be another versatile weapon for Jameis in Dirk Koetter's offense.

Vincent Jackson returns and WR's Kenny Bell and Adam Humphries are in line to make bigger impacts from the slot.  A top 5 total offense in 2015 according to yardage enters year two focused on putting the ball in the end zone with much more frequency.  When they struggle to get 6, however, they've added the most accurate kicker in college football history in Roberto Aguayo.  

Jason Licht seems to have covered all of his bases. 

Negative outlook:

This was a 6-10 team in 2015 and they had an extremely easy schedule with only 4 games all year against teams that made the playoffs.  2016 is a much different story with 6 matchups against 2015 playoff teams and out of division road trips to Dallas, Kansas City, Arizona, San Francisco, and San Diego.  That is some tough sledding. 

Will Mike Smith's new defensive scheme gel with the new players and the holdovers from Lovie's Tampa 2 implementation?  Time will tell.  They still look incredibly thin at safety, and the Bucs are hoping they haven't purchased the decline phase of Robert Ayers after a career high sack season.  How much does Brent Grimes have left at age 32?

The same can be said for Vincent Jackson on offense as this is likely his last season in Tampa considering his contract.  He was productive when healthy in 2015, but that wasn't often.  Tampa did not add any WRs through the draft or free agency.  They are relying on a lot of question marks at the position.  Pretty thin position group if Vincent continues to decline.  Can Mike Evans improve on his league leading drop totals?  Can Austin Sefarian Jenkins get his head on straight?  If not, does Cameron Brate have the talent to play TE on a down by down basis in the NFL?  Logan Mankins was still a difference maker in 2015, and I felt like he was a leader who set the tone for the offensive line.  His absence will be felt.

Dirk Koetter's first tilt in the NFL.  How will he handle all of that responsibility?

If Roberto Aguayo struggles with big kicks Bucs' fans will be calling for Jason Licht's head on a stick. 

Prediction:

Cautious optimism.  8-8

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PThe schedule looks tough, but the NFL is so up and down, that a playoff team from 2015 could suck by the time we play them.  I think the key is going to lie at remaining healthy at 3 positions, DT, QB, and WR.  As usual, I'd something happens to McCly we are screwed.  I actually think Glennon could do alright if Winston got hurt, but he would definitely be a huge loss.  If both of those guys, Evans and V-Jax can be healthy for 10+ games, then we should be good.  I like our depth at DB & OK with Pamphlet.

I'm a little concerned with Winston losing weight, despite everyone insisting it's a great thing.  I'm having flashbacks to when Josh Freeman started to suck.

 

Edited by Quez
Make the Bus great again!
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  • 1 month later...

It sounds like Winston & Evans are connecting quite a bit & building chemistry.  Still seeing a few tweets about Evans drops.  Adam Humpries must being doing really well for Koetter to name him #3 starter after just a few days.  Murphy is still out, and I'm wondering his time table.  I'm really not counting on him, but he was pretty good when healthy.  We could need another healthy wr if we catch the injury bug.

It sounds like DB could be a very strong unit this year.  Spence also sounds like he is making an immediate impact.

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On 7/31/2016 at 7:11 AM, Grahamburn said:

Headed out to camp this morning. 

What a madhouse.  Tons of people.  Obviously hot as Hell.  Make sure you get there plenty early if it's the weekend and you want to sit in the bleachers.  Absolutely packed and pretty miserable, honestly. 

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17 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

What a madhouse.  Tons of people.  Obviously hot as Hell.  Make sure you get there plenty early if it's the weekend and you want to sit in the bleachers.  Absolutely packed and pretty miserable, honestly. 

You really have to go during the week, if they are still open to the public.  Anything free & on the weekends is going to be crazy.  I thought some of the best spots to be were by the lines when they broke down.  It might not seem as exciting as watching QBs & WRs, but you could get pretty close to them.

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Cameron Brate named starter at TE. It sounds like he is the better all around TE.  ASJ had problems a few months ago when be walked off the field.  I wonder if he is still having issues?  Maybe he is still in Koetters dog house.

Turning out to be a bust.

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  • 2 weeks later...
8 hours ago, The Man With No Name said:

Is Jacquies Smith just a pass rusher or can he be/will he be a 3 down player?

Likely rotational/situational pass rusher with William Gholston getting more early down work. 

Robert Ayers and Noah Spence looked like the real deal last night too.  Tampa might finally have a little pass rush to go with some coverage on the back end.  Could be a sneaky fantasy defense with Mike Smith sending a lot more pressure looks.

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Evans had one catch on a quick slant. Wide open on a nice deep ball from Jameis too, corner grabbed him, no call. He walked away without complaining, which was a nice sign. 

ASJ actually looked interested. Finishing his routes even when he wasn't the primary target. Cameron Brate also dinged his knee. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Bucs signed WR Cecil Shorts to a one-year contract.

Pushed out by the Texans' youth movement at receiver, Shorts has landed on his feet with a team where he should immediately slot in as the No. 3 receiver. That's literally and figuratively, as the slot should be Shorts' home in Tampa. Shorts is still only 28, but prone to soft-tissue injuries. He'll be well behind Mike Evans and Vincent Jackson on the targets totem pole, and doesn't figure to come into 2016 fantasy value.

Glad they finally addressed the giant hole at WR.  Grabbing Jeremy Butler from Baltimore was nice too.  The only "weak" unit on the team now looks like the safety group.

 

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54 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

True test this week. Statement game. I doubt many national "experts" will give them much of a chance. 

Personally, I think Carson Palmer got old in a hurry. He hasn't looked good since the middle of last season. 

I agree that Arizona is probably a little overrated.  I also think Atlanta will be in the bottom half of the league this season, so I'm not quite sure what we have yet with the Bucs.  This game will definitely be a great test for the team.  With Grimes and Hargreaves I think we should be able to make Palmer hold on to the ball long enough to feel the pressure.  Arians is going to have to beat us short with dump offs to Johnson, and passes to Fitz, Gresham.  Then hope Palmer can connect on a few deep balls to  Floyd / David Johnson.

We did pretty well against the run vs ATL.

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13 hours ago, Capella said:

:towelwave:

 

I was at the game Sunday. There were a LOT of bucs fans there. 

Awesome, I was at the game in Atlanta last year. Was great to see the game end the same way this year as last year (McCoy deflection at the line).

AZ is going to be very tough this week, but will give us a good understanding of where this team is at. I doubt we win, but anything is possible with Jameis. I hope we can at least be competitive.

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4 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

Just checked the line. 7.5 point dogs. If I were a betting man...

Public should be all over Arizona on this one.  0-1 Superbowl contender at home against a "bad" team playing its second straight road game, and flying across the country.

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8 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

Public should be all over Arizona on this one.  0-1 Superbowl contender at home against a "bad" team playing its second straight road game, and flying across the country.

Let me know how it works out.

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On 9/14/2016 at 11:30 AM, tangfoot said:

Public should be all over Arizona on this one.  0-1 Superbowl contender at home against a "bad" team playing its second straight road game, and flying across the country.

This is why I don't gamble.  Oof.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Vincent Jackson to IR.  I think that will officially end his career as a Buc.  I hope he remains in the area and continues to contribute to the community.  Stand up guy.

Lack of depth really killing this team.  I guess that's what you get when you trade up for kickers in the second round. 

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Yep, V-Jax is done as a Buc and probably as a NFL career. Definitely appreciate everything he has done on and off the field. Luckily Shorts and Murphy started practicing again, we need them back. 

I also wouldn't be opposed to bringing in Roddy White in for a workout. Yes, he is old but he is familiar with the offense and if he's in good shape he might be a solid stopgap.

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This team sucks. I like Light but he really jacked this offseason up. How do you get a QB you consider a franchise guy and then provide him with no weapons to grow with in the draft? The weapons around him this week other than Evans are Jaquizz Rodgers, the Harvard tight end, a guy in his 30s recovering from an acl who hasn't played in a year, Cecil Shorts and some tiny undrafted white slot guy. FUN 

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11 hours ago, Capella said:

This team sucks. I like Light but he really jacked this offseason up. How do you get a QB you consider a franchise guy and then provide him with no weapons to grow with in the draft? The weapons around him this week other than Evans are Jaquizz Rodgers, the Harvard tight end, a guy in his 30s recovering from an acl who hasn't played in a year, Cecil Shorts and some tiny undrafted white slot guy. FUN 

Hey well, at least we drafted a kicker who can barely make chip shots in the 2nd round!

I think Licht is severely overrated by Bucs fans. It seemed like he got credit for whatever went right with the Bucs the past few years, while Lovie got the blame for everything that went wrong. Between the Aguoyo pick and the Sweezy signing, his first off-season as the one in charge sure isn't looking too good.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/18/2016 at 9:10 PM, Capella said:

This team sucks. I like Light but he really jacked this offseason up. How do you get a QB you consider a franchise guy and then provide him with no weapons to grow with in the draft? The weapons around him this week other than Evans are Jaquizz Rodgers, the Harvard tight end, a guy in his 30s recovering from an acl who hasn't played in a year, Cecil Shorts and some tiny undrafted white slot guy. FUN 

The depth on this team is really bad, and they've had so many injuries so it shows up, but that's football.  The GM and front office can't play the game like nobody will get hurt.

It was nice to see what the defense can be at full strength though.  Spence is flashing.  Ayers looks like he's finally healthy.  McDonald was back yesterday.  Grimes managing to not fall down helps his prospects.  Hargreaves is constantly around the ball even when the guy he's covering isn't targeted.  And finally some ####### blitzing.  I was so tired of yelling at my TV these last few games to send the house at these offenses.  If they beat you so what they're going to beat the coverage regardless if there's no pressure.  You have to get sacks and turnovers in today's NFL.  We finally saw that yesterday.

The thing that really burns me up about yesterday was the Hail Mary.  Not necessarily that they gave it up, but the fact that I've watched Dirk Koetter basically play give up football in the last two minutes of the first half already a couple times this year.  It just irks me a bit knowing if the situation had been reversed Dirk would have called three running plays and gone to the half.  Barth drilling one from 54 was kind of annoying too.  Aguayo will never live up to that draft status. 

What happened to Donovan Smith?  I was so excited when Licht finally drafted some offensive lineman early in the draft, but Smith has really fallen off.  He just looks incredibly fat to me.  Pamphile had obviously been playing really well, because his absence was noticed yesterday.

So, I'm thinking draft already even with the win.  They need additional depth along both lines at every position.  Watching Dallas and Oakland road grade everyone makes me want to continue spending premium picks on the line every year. Another WR obviously.  Two safeties and another corner.  

With Martin and Sims they don't need another back, but damn, it sure seems like they do after this year, and there is so much talent at the position in this draft.  Cook, Fournette, Chubb, McCaffrey, etc.  It's one of the main reasons I wanted Licht to franchise Doug.  I wonder if his season would have been different for Doug had they done that?  Now they're stuck with him for two more years and will probably have to pass on some premium players because of it.      

At least we have Jameis.  Really cool of him to go down the line taking pictures with and shaking the hands of the members of the military before the game. 

Very uncool of Mike Evans to kneel during the Anthem, especially with all of those members of the military in attendance for Veterans' Day.  Might just be the conspiracy theorist in me, but I can't help but think the lack of targets Evans saw yesterday was partly correlated to that stunt.  It was pretty obvious when he was in Jameis' doghouse last year during the Saints' game after all of the drops the week before.  Basically saying "I determine whether or not you're relevant.  Don't act like a clown or you won't get the ball." 

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34 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

The depth on this team is really bad, and they've had so many injuries so it shows up, but that's football.  The GM and front office can't play the game like nobody will get hurt.

It was nice to see what the defense can be at full strength though.  Spence is flashing.  Ayers looks like he's finally healthy.  McDonald was back yesterday.  Grimes managing to not fall down helps his prospects.  Hargreaves is constantly around the ball even when the guy he's covering isn't targeted.  And finally some ####### blitzing.  I was so tired of yelling at my TV these last few games to send the house at these offenses.  If they beat you so what they're going to beat the coverage regardless if there's no pressure.  You have to get sacks and turnovers in today's NFL.  We finally saw that yesterday.

The thing that really burns me up about yesterday was the Hail Mary.  Not necessarily that they gave it up, but the fact that I've watched Dirk Koetter basically play give up football in the last two minutes of the first half already a couple times this year.  It just irks me a bit knowing if the situation had been reversed Dirk would have called three running plays and gone to the half.  Barth drilling one from 54 was kind of annoying too.  Aguayo will never live up to that draft status. 

What happened to Donovan Smith?  I was so excited when Licht finally drafted some offensive lineman early in the draft, but Smith has really fallen off.  He just looks incredibly fat to me.  Pamphile had obviously been playing really well, because his absence was noticed yesterday.

So, I'm thinking draft already even with the win.  They need additional depth along both lines at every position.  Watching Dallas and Oakland road grade everyone makes me want to continue spending premium picks on the line every year. Another WR obviously.  Two safeties and another corner.  

With Martin and Sims they don't need another back, but damn, it sure seems like they do after this year, and there is so much talent at the position in this draft.  Cook, Fournette, Chubb, McCaffrey, etc.  It's one of the main reasons I wanted Licht to franchise Doug.  I wonder if his season would have been different for Doug had they done that?  Now they're stuck with him for two more years and will probably have to pass on some premium players because of it.      

At least we have Jameis.  Really cool of him to go down the line taking pictures with and shaking the hands of the members of the military before the game. 

Very uncool of Mike Evans to kneel during the Anthem, especially with all of those members of the military in attendance for Veterans' Day.  Might just be the conspiracy theorist in me, but I can't help but think the lack of targets Evans saw yesterday was partly correlated to that stunt.  It was pretty obvious when he was in Jameis' doghouse last year during the Saints' game after all of the drops the week before.  Basically saying "I determine whether or not you're relevant.  Don't act like a clown or you won't get the ball." 

I completely agree with pretty much everything you said other than the last bit, but I really don't want to get into that and just stick to football. 

Was great to finally see Mike Smith blitz and be aggressive. I have been calling for this the past few weeks as well, and was glad to see Smith do it and watch it work so well. Really hope Smith doesn't let off the peddle and go back to his conservative crap next week.

Thought the same exact thing about the Bears hail mary. My only hope is that Koetter is a rookie HC and hopefully will learn that he needs to be aggressive in those situations going forward and play to win the game.

Agreed that the Tackles have been horrendous. Smith is constantly getting beat and Dotson isn't much better and is good for a penalty or two a game. I thought we might be fine at OT going forward, but we are definitely not. Smith especially has completely fallen off these past 3 games. Wasn't Pamphile drafted as an OT? Maybe he should get a shot there, even though he has looked very good as an OG. 

As far as next year's needs go for the draft, I agree that we need to bolster up the talent at OT, and obviously need another receiver or two to compliment Mike. Definitely need at least one new safety (I think McDougald can be serviceable), and another CB wouldn't hurt either with Grimes being old. I would like to see us continue to go after pass rushers too. You can never have enough and getting pressure is the most important thing for a defense. I disagree on grabbing another RB. This team has way too many other holes/depth spots to fill to waste a pick on a RB. Martin, Sims, Rodgers and Barber are fine, we just had terrible luck with the RB injuries this year.

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Good post Graham, even if I disagree on the taking a knee part. 

Smith is the worst LT in the league, probably by a sizebable margin. He was said to be way too slow before the draft and that has borne true. He would be an ideal fit for guard, but with Pamphile and Marpet being studly there, it's not a need. Maybe RT but he may be even too slow for that. Either way, sucks that we will be drafting a LT again soon. 

We still have a lot of holes, but having Doug around does seem to make everything on the offense click a lot better. Night and day difference. Glad he's back. 

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