Indefinite Tampa Bay Bucs thread: Somehow not on the list of teams to never have won a Super Bowl (1 Viewer)

'Ministry of Pain said:

I got Doug Martin fever. Also has Nicks inside blocking for him.

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'Premier said:

Next person calling Gerald McCoy a bust needs to be slapped. The defense was incredible when he played last year and he went nuts today. 10 yards rushing for Carolina.

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'Deuce said:

I didn't get this game so I couldn't see what was happening. Vincent Jackson: 10 targets, 4 catches. Were these drops or bad throws?

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What a horrible defense.

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When New York Giants coach Tom Coughlin angrily upbraided his Tampa Bay Buccaneers counterpart, Greg Schiano, after a controversial skirmish during a game-ending kneel-down play last Sunday, the two-time Super Bowl winner wasn't merely lecturing an NFL newcomer about an unwritten rule or fiercely protecting the health and safety of his seemingly defenseless players.

Whether Coughlin knew it – and I suspect he did – the Giants' coach was also standing up to a perceived bully who developed a dubious reputation in NFL circles during his 11 years as Rutgers' domineering head coach.

If you took a poll of league talent evaluators, no one would have a higher approval rating than Coughlin right now, because he essentially informed Schiano that the rookie's devil-may-care attitude won't cut it at football's highest level. This is a sensitive subject in scouting circles, because Schiano was almost universally viewed as unaccommodating, intimidating and downright disrespectful by NFL representatives who paid visits to Rutgers from 2001-11, and there were plenty of groans and eye-rolls when he accepted the Bucs job last January.

As one veteran NFL coach said of Schiano earlier this week, "It's his way or [expletive] you. He needs to back up a little bit, or he's going to have a very hard time in this league over the long haul."

In conversations with nearly a dozen NFL general managers, personnel executives, scouts and coaches familiar with Schiano's time at Rutgers, I detected an almost unprecedented degree of resentment and disdain for a man who has yet to coach his third professional game. They believe his decision to instruct his defenders to blow up the Giants' line and lunge at quarterback Eli Manning in a typically uncontested scenario was indicative of the unapologetic arrogance that made Rutgers a notoriously dreaded stop on most scouts' itineraries during his tenure. In the words of one NFC personnel executive, "It was pure misery."

If Joe Paterno's restrictive policies turned Penn State into the most infamous college "visit," checking out prospective pro players on the Rutgers campus was considered an even less enjoyable experience.

"Penn State was off limits for all but two days a year, but they didn't make you feel as unwelcome," says one AFC team's top personnel executive. "At Rutgers, it was a really unpleasant day. You were made to feel like an outsider, like you weren't welcome. And everyone was scared to talk to you.

"[schiano] tried so hard to be a hard ### and went out of his way to be rude. When you'd pass him in the hallway, you might say, 'Good morning,' and he'd look at you like you're a [expletive] idiot. A guy like him doesn't realize that probably half of us played the game at a really high level – it's completely condescending. He would go out of his way to make you feel as uncomfortable as he could."

The feelings of isolation weren't merely figurative: Schiano required visiting talent evaluators to spend part of the practice sessions sequestered in a small, sunken, dugout-like area far away from the non-visible field.

"They made you report to practice at a certain time – when it starts – but then they stuck you 200 yards away from the field in an [enclosed] alleyway," one NFC team's player personnel director recalled. "This is Jersey; it could be raining, sleeting, whatever. The field's elevated, so this was down the steps, where you couldn't see, and there's a security guard holding you there 'till you get the OK to come out and watch practice. Sometimes you stood for 45 minutes and only got to watch for 10 minutes. It varied. If you tried to talk to anyone on the staff, [schiano] gave you the stare-down. I think it was just a lack of respect to NFL personnel."

Said the AFC executive: "There's a box, a little bitty box, way away from the field. All the scouts had to stand in that box like a bunch of little kids. You couldn't step out; you literally had to stand in it. My feeling is that given who was chosen to coach the Bucs, all Tampa scouts should have to stand in a box at every college in America."

Rest assured there are many others who share that sentiment. Several years ago, an NFL personnel executive – who has since risen to the ranks of general manager – walked up to greet a pair of Schiano's Rutgers assistants, who had paid a scheduled visit to one of his team's training camp practices. As one witness recalled, the personnel executive told the Rutgers coaches, "Welcome. There's a box over there. You can go stand in it." The executive pointed to an area well removed from the field and glared at the stunned coaches. A few awkward seconds passed before the executive said, without offering much of a smile, "I'm just [messing] with you."

Most people in the scouting community aren't put off by Schiano simply because of personal grudges, or because they believe he made a tough job even more difficult. They also view him as some sort of hypocrite for taking a job in a league whose interests he treated with such obvious disdain for so long.

Since major college football serves as what amounts to a free farm system for the NFL, it's tempting to view visiting talent evaluators as entitled interlopers whose employers benefit from such an arrangement. Yet there are obvious advantages for college coaches, too: The presence of scouts is viewed favorably by players with NFL aspirations, and when a coach and/or program consistently send players to the league, it can be used as a persuasive recruiting tool.

Consider that Alabama coach Nick Saban, a notorious authoritarian, is nonetheless considered one of the most obliging hosts by NFL talent evaluators, which may play a role in the Crimson Tide's prodigious pipeline of players landing on pro rosters.

Being friendly, or at least civil, to visiting talent evaluators also is good business: Many area scouts ultimately ascend to positions with the power to hire coaches, or at least to influence the hiring process. I've spoken to more than one general manager who has told me he would never choose to work with someone who had once treated NFL people as rudely as Schiano did at Rutgers. It's no wonder that when the Bucs chose Schiano to replace Raheem Morris, many NFL personnel men were stunned.

One thing working in Schiano's favor was his friendship with New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, whose son Steven played for him as Rutgers' long-snapper in 2011. According to reports, Belichick's recommendation to the Glazer family, owners of the Buccaneers, may have been a factor in Schiano's hiring.

Belichick's high regard for Schiano is curious given what was possibly the coach's most divisive moment at Rutgers, an incident that was related several years ago by author and Washington Post columnist John Feinstein. According to Feinstein, Schiano, during his first visit to Navy with the Scarlet Knights, ignored a pregame itinerary that called for both teams to clear the field a few minutes early so that the Brigade of Midshipmen could perform their customary march. Schiano, Feinstein wrote, defiantly kept his team on the field as the Midshipmen appeared, and later falsely claimed not to have been aware of the tradition. Belichick's father, Steve, was a longtime assistant coach and scout at the Naval Academy.

If Schiano's approach is patterned after that of Belichick, a control freak who makes a point of restricting the flow of information and doesn't seem to care about how he is perceived by outsiders, the front-office officials to whom I spoke believe there is a key distinction he should consider. In the AFC personnel executive's words, "To me there is a respect level and a pecking order. When you're Bill Belichick, you can get away with a lot more than when you're a rookie head coach and haven't earned the right to do things. There is a rite of passage."

The perception that Schiano presumptuously disregarded his status as an NFL newbie by ordering his defenders to go after the kneeling Manning last Sunday – and stood by his insolence in postgame comments to reporters – caused personnel executives around the league to rail against his behavior in private contexts. That Coughlin felt compelled to confront Schiano publicly carried even more weight.

"He pissed off The Godfather," said one front-office executive for an NFC team. "Here's Tom Coughlin, one of the most respected men in this league, telling him he's out of line, wondering why his [$97-million] quarterback was put in harm's way. You have to understand that the NFL really is a brotherhood – these guys are in the same union, and some of them socialize together, and some end up as teammates down the road.

"He's been perceived as a bully in the NCAA, and he's still trying to bully. This league has little patience with that. It won't fly. And even before this, the NFL's scrutinizing eyes were already upon him."

Schiano may not care, but rightly or wrongly, a whole lot of experienced NFL talent evaluators have already stereotyped him as a self-centered autocrat who doesn't respect the game. You might say that they've put him in a box.

If he wants to escape it, now would be a great time to start.

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'Quez said:

I'm hearing rumors the Bucs could be shopping Blount.

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Aqib Talib has been a trouble maker from the start of his career in Tampa Bay, dating back to the time he got in a fistfight with a teammate at the rookie symposium, two months after the Bucs took him in the first round of the 2008 NFL draft. And some in Tampa think that his latest trouble should be his last.With the news that Talib has been suspended four games for a violation of the league’s performance-enhancing drug policy (for what he says was taking Adderall without a prescription), Gary Shelton of the Tampa Bay Times is weighing in and saying that the Bucs need to cut Talib.“The Bucs should have known better,” Shelton writes. “With Talib, there is always going to be another headache, another headline, another horror show. Sooner or later, he was going to let down his teammates once again.”It seems unlikely that the Bucs would cut Talib for taking Adderall when they didn’t cut him when he was charged with shooting at his sister’s ex-boyfriend (those charges were later dropped). But with a guy like Talib, the only way to ensure he won’t embarrass your team with off-field trouble is to get rid of him

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'bucsbaby said:

ugh, the D is a gong show, though the D line has shown some signs of life this year

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'Premier said:

Schiano really has botched the past two home games with the clock.

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'gump said:

Wow was I wrong....Josh Freeman will never be anything more than a mediocre starting QB in the NFL. He can't even look to his second read....and when he is off, he can't hit the broad side of a barn. But what do the Bucs do? Sign Vick? Draft Murray or Bray in the 2nd round? Definitely not extending Freeman. He's Dilfer part 2.

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Wow was I wrong....Josh Freeman will never be anything more than a mediocre starting QB in the NFL. He can't even look to his second read....and when he is off, he can't hit the broad side of a barn. But what do the Bucs do? Sign Vick? Draft Murray or Bray in the 2nd round? Definitely not extending Freeman. He's Dilfer part 2.

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Vick? LOL, Freeman is better than Vick. Freeman isn't done here yet. It's the first year with Sullivan and Jackson and Martin. You've got Nicks and Joseph to look forward to next year. And they need help on the D-line, O-line, and at CB. No way they draft a QB high next year.

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'gump said:

Wow was I wrong....Josh Freeman will never be anything more than a mediocre starting QB in the NFL. He can't even look to his second read....and when he is off, he can't hit the broad side of a barn. But what do the Bucs do? Sign Vick? Draft Murray or Bray in the 2nd round? Definitely not extending Freeman. He's Dilfer part 2.

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Vick? LOL, Freeman is better than Vick. Freeman isn't done here yet. It's the first year with Sullivan and Jackson and Martin. You've got Nicks and Joseph to look forward to next year. And they need help on the D-line, O-line, and at CB. No way they draft a QB high next year.

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Agree...which is why I think the Bucs are in a no-win spot for the next 2 years. Freeman is not good enough...he can improve, but i dont think he will ever be good enough. I'd be shocked if they extended him....he's not Schianos guy....but they can't cut bait.But we need to draft a QB this year in the first few rounds.

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'Raider Nation said:

Anyone see Shaun King on Pro Football Talk on the NBC Sports channel? It looks like he ate Booger McFarland!

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Get those bags of money ready!

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'gump said:

Get those bags of money ready!

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Rumored offer on the table from someone for Revis....

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Get those bags of money ready!

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Rumored offer on the table from someone for Revis....

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@AdamSchefter: Four teams - SF, PHIL, DET, TB - in play on Dashon Goldson - but DET, TB considered favorites. TB also in on CBs Sean Smith, B. Grimes, DRC.

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'gump said:

Get those bags of money ready!

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Rumored offer on the table from someone for Revis....

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@AdamSchefter: Four teams - SF, PHIL, DET, TB - in play on Dashon Goldson - but DET, TB considered favorites. TB also in on CBs Sean Smith, B. Grimes, DRC.

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Like the way the secondary is the target...DL is going to be a question.

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Bucs are the likely Revis destination, if Jets move quicklyPosted by Mike Florio on March 12, 2013, 2:57 PM EDTAs the new league year approaches, the Jets have, for now, one serious trade partner for cornerback Darrelle Revis.Per a source with knowledge of the situation, it’s the Buccaneers.The challenge becomes doing a deal that works for everyone involved — the teams and the player. Some, including former Jets G.M. Mike Tannenbaum, believe that Revis should bring in the same haul that the Vikings got for receiver Percy Harvin. But there are major differences between the deals. First, one playoff team in the NFC traded Harvin to another playoff team in the same conference. To justify that deal, the compensation needed to be greater. The Jets, by sending Revis to a team they’d only have to worry about in the postseason if they meet in the Super Bowl, are taking less of a competitive risk by shipping Revis to Tampa. Second, and more importantly, Harvin had a year left on his deal and the Vikings could have used the franchise tag on him twice, before the salary would have become unwieldy. Thus, the Vikings controlled Harvin for a total of three more years. The Jets, in turn, have one more year with Revis. Next March, he can walk away without the ability to use the franchise tag, per his contract. Combined with the fact that the Jets have decided not to keep him beyond the 2013 season and the fact that he’s recovering from a torn ACL, Harvin actually is worth more in a trade than Revis. At best, it’s a package headlined by a second-round pick this year or possibly a first-rounder in 2014. Under these circumstances, a 2013 first-round pick for Revis doesn’t make sense.For the Jets and Revis, the question now becomes whether they are willing to do the deal, before the opportunity dries up. If the Bucs sign a player like, say, Falcons cornerback Brent Grimes once the market opens, the Bucs will lose interest in Revis — and as of right now there’s no one else trying to get the deal done.

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So is Goldson's signing a definite sign of the beginining of the end for Ronde?

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Wednesday's big-money signing of safety Dashon Goldson won't preclude the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from continuing their pursuit of a Darrelle Revis trade.

The Bucs have been the favorites to land Revis since free agency commenced, and they're still champing at the bit to land the shutdown cornerback. The team's management is "fully on board" with a Revis trade, multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole on Wednesday.

Jets general manager John Idzik has a reputation for deliberateness, and he's yet to be swayed by the Bucs' offer. The reported sticking point is the No. 13 overall pick in April's 2013 NFL Draft, which the Buccaneers have been unwilling to sacrifice.

If the Jets are modeling their potential trade haul on the first-, third- and seventh-round draft picks collected by the Minnesota Vikings in the Percy Harvin blockbuster, it's hard to blame Bucs general manager Mark Dominik for balking.

Dominik's first-rounder at No. 13 overall carries more value than the No. 25 overall selection traded by the Seahawks. More importantly, Revis' healthy is a complete mystery following reconstructive knee surgery on his torn anterior cruciate ligament. Last but not least, the Vikings had the option of hitting Harvin with the franchise tag for two more years while Revis' current contract prohibits the use of the tag.

The sides could find common ground in the coming days, though, as one source told Cole the Buccaneers are more willing to give up their 2014 first-round pick. Since the Jets are in full-blown rebuilding mode this year, it's a compromise that makes plenty of sense.

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