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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (14 Viewers)

The lack of resources around Goff certainly prevents him from excelling in this situation, but he's even squandered what few opportunities are being presented.  He's missed a number of open receivers, and his ball placement on many completions has been suspect at best.  He seems to bail and check down extremely early in the play, even when the pocket appears to be holding.

I knew he had limitations coming in to this, and that he was unlikely to thrive where things weren't going to stay on schedule with the offense.  I didn't expect him to do so poorly when things did actually come together from one play to the next.  He's actually failed to meet my already very low expectations for him.  I really thought he was a better passer than he has shown.  The little I had watched him in the past gave me the impression that he was pretty accurate when he could just set and throw.  I haven't seen that this year.

He's hardly the cause of this start, it was no secret that this team was bereft of talent coming in to this year.  It's year 1 of what was acknowledged to be a multi year rebuild.  I guess I was prepared to see how he handled it, how he looked, in hopes that maybe he could recapture whatever made him the #1 overall pick in the draft.  I wasn't ruling out that he could show enough that perhaps he could hold down the QB spot for the team beyond the 2 years we knew we were stuck with him.  What I've seen so far has left me saying there is zero chance of that.  He is not going to be taking snaps for a winning Lions team, if that ever comes to be.

 
Mene said:
The lack of resources around Goff certainly prevents him from excelling in this situation, but he's even squandered what few opportunities are being presented.  He's missed a number of open receivers, and his ball placement on many completions has been suspect at best.  He seems to bail and check down extremely early in the play, even when the pocket appears to be holding.

I knew he had limitations coming in to this, and that he was unlikely to thrive where things weren't going to stay on schedule with the offense.  I didn't expect him to do so poorly when things did actually come together from one play to the next.  He's actually failed to meet my already very low expectations for him.  I really thought he was a better passer than he has shown.  The little I had watched him in the past gave me the impression that he was pretty accurate when he could just set and throw.  I haven't seen that this year.

He's hardly the cause of this start, it was no secret that this team was bereft of talent coming in to this year.  It's year 1 of what was acknowledged to be a multi year rebuild.  I guess I was prepared to see how he handled it, how he looked, in hopes that maybe he could recapture whatever made him the #1 overall pick in the draft.  I wasn't ruling out that he could show enough that perhaps he could hold down the QB spot for the team beyond the 2 years we knew we were stuck with him.  What I've seen so far has left me saying there is zero chance of that.  He is not going to be taking snaps for a winning Lions team, if that ever comes to be.
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I wrote about that this summer, it’s not a “his WRs don’t have talent” thing. I did some research at StatHead this summer and found - paraphrasing bc my trial ended, I don’t have the data anymore - Goff had the least number of splash plays (for purposes of my research I chose 35 yards) by a country mile. He had six completions of 35+ last year. Now to add some context, guys like Allen & Mahomes had like 23 or 18, Cousins or Brady were like mid-teens, dead -armed-about-to-retire Rivers has 13. Goff had a half dozen!

That’s with Kupp and Woods. But wait, wait, it got worse when I took a deeper dive. I went through the Rams play by play game logs and found out he hit Woods for a 56 yard TD in like early October, and it was THREE MONTHS before he completed another long pass that went 35+. Like Week 17 he threw a deep ball to a TE (forget if it was Everett or Higbee.) The other 4 completions 35+ were short passes that were mostly YAC.

Two long bombs the whole year when normal, competent, not even making Pro Bowl guys gets almost one a game. Twice in four months with a primo receiving corps. The issue is NOT the Lions WRs. That is AN issue but it doesn’t let Jared off the hook. IDK what happened after 2018 and the Super Bowl LIII loss. For two years he was a Pro Bowler who took deep shots all the time. Since that game v  the Pats he hasn’t been the same guy.

 
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Da Guru said:
Goff does not look very good..but even if Stafford were still here there with these WRs it would not be much better.  Not sure any Lion WR would make another NFL team.

Jansen before the game on The ticket said "They need a win to keep giving the effort"  yesterday it seems the effort is running out of gas."
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Yeah, I think the turning point was the Vikings game. There’s only so many times you can raise yourself to absolutely burst your ### and knock on the door. There will be a time where when it has never opened, and doesn’t open, the stuffing will be knocked out of you and it will be diminishing returns. Kind of feel like The Vikings game was that, after going through the Ravens game and a few other close ones. The Bengals result, and the nature of it, did not surprise me in the slightest. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
 two years he was a Pro Bowler who took deep shots all the time. Since that game v  the Pats he hasn’t been the same guy.
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Yes, that was definitely the turning point. BB has always been good at exposing a player's weak point. And this time it was on the worlds biggest stage, where even the most clueless of teams would be paying attention.

But on the bright side, he gives them a 2 year plan to draft his replacement as well as others that can eventually help rebuild this team thru those higher draft picks his suckatude will bring. And then they can cut him and bring in some quality free agents to round out the team.

If everything works out, which of course never seems to happen. 🙁

 
matuski said:
If?

They havent had a 1000 yard rusher since Reggie Bush.  Yea.. that Reggie Bush.  And he made it by a yard or so if I recall.
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Prior to Cinci Lions were averaging 4.3 yds per carry and over a 100 yds per game. Improvement from last year.

If they cant run Goff becomes even less effective because of lack of play action. Lions have been going away from Williams more and favoring Swift and I think that needs to be more balanced.

 
1 hour ago, Moonlight said:
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I don’t mean to be pedantic but I see this fallacy cited often. Studies have shown, repeatedly, you don’t need an effective run game in order for play action to work well.

Think of it this way....you are looking for a very slight edge, bc that’s all it takes. It’s a knife edge out there. Let’s say your average wide receiver in full pads can run 100 yards in 12 seconds (the math is easier using 12.) 300 feet divided by 12 seconds is 25 feet, e.g., that average WR covers 25 feet in one second. If play action causes the deep S to hesitate for 2/10ths of a second, that’s 5 feet of separation.

(25/10 = 2.5 feet per 1/10th of a second...so 2/10th = 5 feet.)

You can use play action just as effectively when you’re a bad rushing team as a good running team. I’ll see if I can scare up a few articles, it’s been looked at a lot the last few years.

 
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Moonlight said:
Prior to Cinci Lions were averaging 4.3 yds per carry and over a 100 yds per game. Improvement from last year.

If they cant run Goff becomes even less effective because of lack of play action. Lions have been going away from Williams more and favoring Swift and I think that needs to be more balanced.
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And that is always the game when we try to argue in favor of any facet of the Lions team.... caveats and qualifications.

 
BobbyLayne said:
I posted a retort last night but edited after about ten minutes.

Y'all remember the old saying "never get into a mud wrestling match with a pig"?

The problem is the pig likes it, and you'll just end up dirty.
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Not sure what your reason is for calling me an a$$hole or a pig are.  We discussed pre season if Goff was a top 20 QB and I said we will see how he does this year but I don't see that being the case.  He has proven that he is not a top 20 QB.

For the 20th time, I like the Lions and are cheering for them.  I think the trade was good as you needed a rebuild, and your draft was great.  All I've said is Goff went downhill last year and you debated me on it saying you'd rather him than Stafford.  Then just made your own post about how he went downhill last year.  Sheesh man.

 
Mene said:
Nope... I was wrong.  He's pretty terrible, a lot worse than I realized.
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Ya, he's simply not good anymore.  But all he was going to ever be here was a 1 year stop gap QB anyways, so no discredit to the Lions at all for making the deal.  They got some good picks from it and can focus on drafting their future QB next year.

Doesn't seem to be any clear cut top QB's in the draft, and almost all mocks have the top QB out of the top 5.  So if DET gets the #1 pick, do they take Thibodeaux or do they trade back for a QB?

 
Zeppelin said:
Looks like there is a chance Taylor Decker could be shut down for the year.
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You have to listen t the presser. Media availability is on Youtube almost daily.

Basically he said we’re going to be working with him everyday for the next 14 days and if he’s not ready to go by the end of that time we’ll shut him down.

One thing about DC and his open, transparent communicaton style is it leaves him ripe for speculation. I’ve seen his comments taken out of context & misinterpreted often already.  

 
looking forward to today's game. Will be weird seeing Stafford play against us. Finding success in LA is hard to handle but wish him the best.   Hope to see improvement from defense and rooks. Goff doesn't have it and hope we have an alternative next year. Just a tough season all around.

 
Moonlight said:
looking forward to today's game. Will be weird seeing Stafford play against us. Finding success in LA is hard to handle but wish him the best.   Hope to see improvement from defense and rooks. Goff doesn't have it and hope we have an alternative next year. Just a tough season all around.
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I’m concerned this is going to be an absolute bloodbath. Not sure I’m going to enjoy seeing Stafford destroy us either. Love the guy, want him to have all the success in the world, but it’s going to be weird seeing him against us. 

 
TartanLion said:
I’m concerned this is going to be an absolute bloodbath. Not sure I’m going to enjoy seeing Stafford destroy us either. Love the guy, want him to have all the success in the world, but it’s going to be weird seeing him against us. 
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Again the Lions competed and played hard..but in the NFL the only things that matters getting the win.  Goff did not play well but even with Stafford still here they might be 2-5.

Lions hardly pressured Stafford today so he was able to let the long crossing routes develop.  Lions secondary is weak and without pressure they look even worse.

Right now Lions have 2 good RBs and Hock on offense and that is about it.

What is worrisome if that Goff will be here another year dues his contract.  This years QB draft is not strong.  Lions wait another year and draft a QB.  Then we have a rookie QB to develop.

This is at least a 4 year project to get back to 500.

 
rockaction said:
Anybody see this? 

Chris Spielman finds out he's in the ring of honor. The way they did it is awesome. 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1451326657290248197

@Ilov80s @Leroy Hoard  @BobbyLayne @jon_mx @TartanLion
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He played a couple years in Buffalo and was awesome here.  His intensity is insane.  I remember his roommate for one of the games - it was freezing outside, and Spielman insisted on sleeping with the windows open to prepare for the game the next day.

I also remember him taking a year off to tend to his wife when she came down with cancer.  True man of character.

 
Da Guru said:
Again the Lions competed and played hard..but in the NFL the only things that matters getting the win.  Goff did not play well but even with Stafford still here they might be 2-5.

Lions hardly pressured Stafford today so he was able to let the long crossing routes develop.  Lions secondary is weak and without pressure they look even worse.

Right now Lions have 2 good RBs and Hock on offense and that is about it.

What is worrisome if that Goff will be here another year dues his contract.  This years QB draft is not strong.  Lions wait another year and draft a QB.  Then we have a rookie QB to develop.

This is at least a 4 year project to get back to 500.
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Agree with this. They don't HAVE to take a QB this year. The QB class sucks. So draft best player available and fill the many gaping holes. They will have 3 of the top 35 or so picks this year and similar next year. 

They absolutely need WRs in the worst way. It's the worst collection of WRs I can ever recall seeing. They also need CBs and LBs and another safety. They can use the top pick on an edge rusher (hopefully Kayvon Thibodeau) and fill needs with the other picks. But WR is the biggest need in my opinion.

 
Zeppelin said:
Agree with this. They don't HAVE to take a QB this year. The QB class sucks. So draft best player available and fill the many gaping holes. They will have 3 of the top 35 or so picks this year and similar next year. 

They absolutely need WRs in the worst way. It's the worst collection of WRs I can ever recall seeing. They also need CBs and LBs and another safety. They can use the top pick on an edge rusher (hopefully Kayvon Thibodeau) and fill needs with the other picks. But WR is the biggest need in my opinion.
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Watching Goff for another year is cruel and unusual punishment. 

Nothing personal about the guy but he is so hesitant to throw deep. 

 
Zeppelin said:
Agree with this. They don't HAVE to take a QB this year. The QB class sucks. So draft best player available and fill the many gaping holes. They will have 3 of the top 35 or so picks this year and similar next year. 

They absolutely need WRs in the worst way. It's the worst collection of WRs I can ever recall seeing. They also need CBs and LBs and another safety. They can use the top pick on an edge rusher (hopefully Kayvon Thibodeau) and fill needs with the other picks. But WR is the biggest need in my opinion.
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I think we mainly just need our alpha WR. The main man. We should probably spend the Rams pick or our 2nd rounder on who ever that might be. I don’t mind the collection of WRs from a functional point of view, we are mainly just missing that one higher percentile guy that can do special things 

 
TartanLion said:
I’m concerned this is going to be an absolute bloodbath. 
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I think everyone expected that. Pretty decent prep job by MCDC & his staff. Obviously it’s a miserable season but you can see they are squeezing a lot of effort from marginal UDFAs & raw inexperienced players. Very young and not especially talented, with a bottom quartile QB, but they’ve been in all but a couple games.

Really that’s about what we were hoping for this year. Show some energy, play hard, while keeping the high draft pick in play. I seriously doubt they go winless, which the thread title asks. They’re going to finish strong a couple games and gave at least one blowout win. Long ways away from a roster perspective, but in terms of effort and motivation, I’m pretty happy with what we have seen.

 
DC was a little more even keel in his presser today. Said he’s built for adversity & the lack of W/L success just makes him want to dig in more, anger is a great motivator.

On the gosling interception, the rookie in-line TE took the wrong angle on his post, if he cuts across the safety help isn’t there. Donald got an inside rush and Goff couldn’t follow through, wasn’t his best fastball (it was a tight anyway.) Ramsey made a great play.

Talked a lot about how it’s an ongoing evaluation wrt who will be here long term and who won’t be. Overall he seemed a lot less emotional, which is probably a good thing. You can see it’s killing him they keep losing these winnable games.

 
BobbyLayne said:
I think everyone expected that. Pretty decent prep job by MCDC & his staff. Obviously it’s a miserable season but you can see they are squeezing a lot of effort from marginal UDFAs & raw inexperienced players. Very young and not especially talented, with a bottom quartile QB, but they’ve been in all but a couple games.

Really that’s about what we were hoping for this year. Show some energy, play hard, while keeping the high draft pick in play. I seriously doubt they go winless, which the thread title asks. They’re going to finish strong a couple games and gave at least one blowout win. Long ways away from a roster perspective, but in terms of effort and motivation, I’m pretty happy with what we have seen.
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Im fine with this season so far. As you say, some wins will come along the way. I find this situation far less frustrating than having a very very good QB, a sometimes decent roster around him, yet inept coordinators or gaps in certain things that keep stopping a team that you feel should be winning a playoff game/div, from doing so. 

 
Starting slot CB A.J. Parker could be out a while with a shoulder injury, pending further tests. If true, that's 3 of the top 4 CBs out. 

Backup guard Logan Stenberg is going on IR, which makes 15 Lions on IR. 

 
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Zeppelin said:
Starting slot CB A.J. Parker could be out a while with a shoulder injury, pending further tests. If true, that's 3 of the top 4 CBs out. 

Backup guard Logan Stenberg is going on IR, which makes 15 Lions on IR. 
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One after another. As DC said next man up.

 
BobbyLayne said:
I think everyone expected that. Pretty decent prep job by MCDC & his staff. Obviously it’s a miserable season but you can see they are squeezing a lot of effort from marginal UDFAs & raw inexperienced players. Very young and not especially talented, with a bottom quartile QB, but they’ve been in all but a couple games.

Really that’s about what we were hoping for this year. Show some energy, play hard, while keeping the high draft pick in play. I seriously doubt they go winless, which the thread title asks. They’re going to finish strong a couple games and gave at least one blowout win. Long ways away from a roster perspective, but in terms of effort and motivation, I’m pretty happy with what we have seen.
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Eagles at Lions is a winnable game. 

 
The Eagles are a bit of a dumpster fire right now with young Sirianni and his young OC/DC's being over there heads in their first year positions. I think it is more probable than not that the Lions win this game.

 
Judging off how they have held up against superior opponents, this certainly feels like a winnable game for DET.

 
nysfl2 said:
With Detroit's normal history, that means they're likely to lose by 30 on Sunday
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this is the way of the 🦁 

vs good teams - play good enough to win but give up a large game winning drive while rushing 3 of play one good half and look like JV donkeys the other 30 minutes

vs “bad” teams - hold my beer

still, we expected 13-15 losses so nothing too surprising

what we were hoping for was confirmation we had some pieces in place - Swift, Hock, Penai, the rookie D picks - and a team that showed some heart

on the whole, SFH has had a really good first 16 months, Holmes & MCDC have infused the team positivity, energy & commitment, and the heavy on former players staff is doing a great job teaching the youngest team in the league

all that said, could we just win ONE ####### GAME?

 
What we can be sure of is that the Lions will lead after 3 quarters. In most of their games, the Eagles have totally disappeared in the first 3 quarters, only to turn it on at the end. Whereas the Lions seem to do their worst work in the 4th quarter. 

 
matuski said:
This is how they suck you in.
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totally. I thought we would beat Chicago given how we had played in the weeks leading up to it, and their uncertainty at QB, yet it was one of our worst performances 

classic lions 

 
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DET getting their first dub this week.

Actually like this team. I think they're way ebtter than their record shows. Get Hock more involved is all.... But other than that, I expect a much different record going forward

 
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