DETROIT LIONS 2020: Lions hire Brad Holmes as new GM...WHO???

[Da Guru 6,272]

16 minutes ago, BoerumHill said:

Reid is a phenomenal administrator. Not sexy talk but top to bottom, every aspect, nothing is missed, everything is intentional.

Sort of like in military planning, logistics is everything. Detail oriented guys are the bomb.

Reid on whether Bieniemy, in his 15th year as a coach (3rd as OC), is ready for the next level:

“I’d say hire him, like right now. That’s what I’d tell you. I don’t want to lose him, but if you’re asking me if he’s ready to be a head coach? Yeah, he’s ready. He was ready last year. Nobody is in more control than what he is within this game. He is a leader of men. He knows football, but he knows the offense like the back of his hand. He is in the quarterback room every day. I think if you talked to Patrick, I think Patrick would tell you how much of an influence he has had on him.”

There is no doubt he has to be better than Patrcia but without the right GM he won`t succeed.  The next GM hire will be the key for any coach to have success here.   And right now they are looking at a total rebuild again so it won`t happen overnight.

[Moonlight 640]

7 hours ago, BoerumHill said:

Today would be good."

l haven’t lived in state in 20+ years and I loathe Detroit sports radio so I probably don’t have as good a sense of the room temperature as some of you guys. But I feel like this is one of those moments where the Fords (SFH being the current embodiment of the family dynasty) has to step down off the veranda and let fans know they feel the pain, too. Let everyone know this not acceptable performance. Inject a too often absent sense of urgency.

Not taking action feels like the subtext is “we’re OK with this.”

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Easy counter argument:

Same as Day One, 57 straight years.

Sure. Humor me. Pretend we root for a franchise that intends to make things better

I really like your thoughts on this. It would be connecting with fans and saying things need to change. Urgency has never been the Ford way and that they are above it all to show that urgency. 

If not this week, then second choice to fire them would be to do it immediately after team is eliminated from playoff hunt.

[Tornacl 60]

13 hours ago, Da Guru said:

There is no doubt he has to be better than Patrcia but without the right GM he won`t succeed.  The next GM hire will be the key for any coach to have success here.   And right now they are looking at a total rebuild again so it won`t happen overnight.

I've been saying this for a while.  Picking a good GM is more important for this team than the head coach.  This team is always at or near the bottom in both talent evaluation and player development - a deadly combination.  For a team that has picked in the top 10 constantly in the past 20 years, they've whiffed on those picks more than they've hit, and that's in the 1st round!  They should be getting Hall of Famers and All Pros, and they've been lucky to get consistent starters.  (I realize this goes back farther than Quinn/Patricia.)

And when they have drafted players, on more than one occasion the player failed to do anything in Detroit, only to become a solid player elsewhere (Kyle Van Noy - I'm looking at you.)

I believe the Fords should hire an ACTUAL "football mind" to take over all team functions.  And their first order of battle should be to hire someone out of the Ravens' or Steelers' front offices to be the GM.  Why the Ravens or Steelers?  Because those teams own the draft every year.  They obviously know how to evaluate talent.  Let that GM hire the coach he wants.  Whoever is the head of scouting or Assistant GM, that's where I'd look.

I really liked the IDEA of hiring Quinn and Patricia, as before that the Lions always hired someone from in house, except for Matt Millen.  The idea of hiring people from an incredibly successful organization was the right idea.  The problem is that the Patriots' success is due to Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.  But like many other organizations, they've learned the hard way that the success doesn't usually transfer over. 

[TwinTurbo 676]

2 hours ago, Tornacl said:

I've been saying this for a while.  Picking a good GM is more important for this team than the head coach.  This team is always at or near the bottom in both talent evaluation and player development - a deadly combination. 

Yes agree. The Lions are perennially bottom five in the league in talent. I remember that 0-16 season when they only had two players on the roster that would have started for any other team, one was Megatron and the other was a kicker. The coaching staff really doesn't matter when you are merely the 3rd or 4th best team in the NFC North in talent. 

And it just seems like when they do finally get a few good players on the roster, they either get hurt or the schedule does them no favors. 

Also the Patriots way philosophy and everything that went along with it, was due to Tom Brady being the cornerstone. Sorry to fans of their coaching staff, but none of that works unless Tom is QB for the only team in the AFC East with a franchise QB for two entire decades. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by TwinTurbo

[Da Guru 6,272]

9 hours ago, Tornacl said:

I've been saying this for a while.  Picking a good GM is more important for this team than the head coach.  This team is always at or near the bottom in both talent evaluation and player development - a deadly combination.  For a team that has picked in the top 10 constantly in the past 20 years, they've whiffed on those picks more than they've hit, and that's in the 1st round!  They should be getting Hall of Famers and All Pros, and they've been lucky to get consistent starters.  (I realize this goes back farther than Quinn/Patricia.)

And when they have drafted players, on more than one occasion the player failed to do anything in Detroit, only to become a solid player elsewhere (Kyle Van Noy - I'm looking at you.)

I believe the Fords should hire an ACTUAL "football mind" to take over all team functions.  And their first order of battle should be to hire someone out of the Ravens' or Steelers' front offices to be the GM.  Why the Ravens or Steelers?  Because those teams own the draft every year.  They obviously know how to evaluate talent.  Let that GM hire the coach he wants.  Whoever is the head of scouting or Assistant GM, that's where I'd look.

I really liked the IDEA of hiring Quinn and Patricia, as before that the Lions always hired someone from in house, except for Matt Millen.  The idea of hiring people from an incredibly successful organization was the right idea.  The problem is that the Patriots' success is due to Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.  But like many other organizations, they've learned the hard way that the success doesn't usually transfer over. 

I agree.  Successful teams usually have one thing in common.  A GM who restocks and builds depth and a star QB.   Then a good coach.    Flip flop that and you can`t win.

 

Right now I believe that Sheila Ford has no idea what to do or who to put in place if she fires Quinntricia.  Team president Rod Wood is useless as he stated himself he knows very little about football, so she really has no sounding board with any kind of expertise.

Rod Wood needs to be fired or put in a different role, Wood is a financial advisor and not a football guy. Lions need to start at the top to clean house. In order replace Wood, Quinn then find a HC.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Da Guru

[Tornacl 60]

3 hours ago, Da Guru said:

I agree.  Successful teams usually have one thing in common.  A GM who restocks and builds depth and a star QB.   Then a good coach.    Flip flop that and you can`t win.

 

Right now I believe that Sheila Ford has no idea what to do or who to put in place if she fires Quinntricia.  Team president Rod Wood is useless as he stated himself he knows very little about football, so she really has no sounding board with any kind of expertise.

Rod Wood needs to be fired or put in a different role, Wood is a financial advisor and not a football guy. Lions need to start at the top to clean house. In order replace Wood, Quinn then find a HC.

 

So who would be the best "football guy" to hire to take over all team activities? President of Football Operations?

I'd be looking for a former GM who was good at building teams, managing the salary cap, etc.  I'd give a blank check to Ozzie Newsome, but I think he's too smart to take that job.  Mike Holmgren would be a good choice.  He wasn't great as a combo coach/GM, but I think that is too much for any one person these days.  Jimmy Johnson is another name. 

I realize these are all "big names," partly because I really don't know that many people in the GM pool, and partly because I think it needs to be someone who has a strong knowledge of the NFL, and a good reputation for dealing with the other teams.  I wouldn't be looking for them to be the GM, but it sure would be nice to have someone pick the next GM who knows what he/she should be looking for.  Having the ability to talk to other teams and identify good candidates waiting for their opportunity would be nice.  It would also be nice for someone other than the Ford family to be the one to pull the trigger when a change is needed.  I want the person making those types of decisions to be a fiery competitor, where continuing to lose without any sort of improvement will not be tolerated.

[Da Guru 6,272]

3 minutes ago, Tornacl said:

So who would be the best "football guy" to hire to take over all team activities? President of Football Operations?

I'd be looking for a former GM who was good at building teams, managing the salary cap, etc.  I'd give a blank check to Ozzie Newsome, but I think he's too smart to take that job.  Mike Holmgren would be a good choice.  He wasn't great as a combo coach/GM, but I think that is too much for any one person these days.  Jimmy Johnson is another name. 

I realize these are all "big names," partly because I really don't know that many people in the GM pool, and partly because I think it needs to be someone who has a strong knowledge of the NFL, and a good reputation for dealing with the other teams.  I wouldn't be looking for them to be the GM, but it sure would be nice to have someone pick the next GM who knows what he/she should be looking for.  Having the ability to talk to other teams and identify good candidates waiting for their opportunity would be nice.  It would also be nice for someone other than the Ford family to be the one to pull the trigger when a change is needed.  I want the person making those types of decisions to be a fiery competitor, where continuing to lose without any sort of improvement will not be tolerated.

Really do not want old guys who have been out of the game.   Newsome would be a great choice but I doubt he would come back for a situation like the Lions.

To me Tony Dungy was overated.  Did not win until he had Peyton Manning, but everybody won with Peyton.  Remember Jim Caldwell was 14-2 with Payton, 2-14 the next year when he was hurt.

One young guy I really like is Louis Riddick.   Been a player, even though he is now a broadcaster unlike Matt Millen Riddick has 10 years of front office experience.  Riddick knows the game today and knows the players.  Would like to see him as team presdient or GM.

[Tornacl 60]

5 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Really do not want old guys who have been out of the game.   Newsome would be a great choice but I doubt he would come back for a situation like the Lions.

To me Tony Dungy was overated.  Did not win until he had Peyton Manning, but everybody won with Peyton.  Remember Jim Caldwell was 14-2 with Payton, 2-14 the next year when he was hurt.

One young guy I really like is Louis Riddick.   Been a player, even though he is now a broadcaster unlike Matt Millen Riddick has 10 years of front office experience.  Riddick knows the game today and knows the players.  Would like to see him as team presdient or GM.

I don't want the old guys to BE the GM, I want one of them picking the GM, and deciding when the GM/coach need to go. 

[Da Guru 6,272]

58 minutes ago, Tornacl said:

I don't want the old guys to BE the GM, I want one of them picking the GM, and deciding when the GM/coach need to go. 

Would like Ryan Day as the next HC.   

[BoerumHill 171]

53 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Would like Ryan Day as the next HC.   

F that

[whole-show 291]

Lions have announced that Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia have been relieved of their duties 

Link

Edited November 28, 2020 by whole-show

[whoknew 8,714]

I never like to celebrate someone else losing his or her job but ...

Thanks goodness. It was completely necessary.

[BoerumHill 171]

🎊

[Tornacl 60]

Hopefully, Wood will be asked to step aside as well.

[Da Guru 6,272]

7 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I never like to celebrate someone else losing his or her job but ...

Thanks goodness. It was completely necessary.

I agree.  I feel much worse if one of my friends lose their job and are struggling to make ends meet.

They both have 2 years left on their contract at 3-4 million a year after this season that they will get paid for.  So that is a nice severance package.

[Tin Cup 326]

23 minutes ago, whole-show said:

Lions have announced that Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia have been relieved of their duties 

Link

Puts them in a good position to be first in line for Gase in a few weeks!

[Houston turmOiler 159]

21 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I never like to celebrate someone else losing his or her job but ...

Thanks goodness. It was completely necessary.

It's ok. I felt the same when Bill O'Brien got fired. 

[Desert_Power 458]

3 hours ago, Da Guru said:

One young guy I really like is Louis Riddick.   Been a player, even though he is now a broadcaster unlike Matt Millen Riddick has 10 years of front office experience.  Riddick knows the game today and knows the players.  Would like to see him as team presdient or GM.

I'm surprised he hasn't been offered a big job yet. Definitely the type of a guy an organization should take a shot on.

[BoerumHill 171]

Announced in the 4th quarter of the Michigan game.

 

[NutterButter 6,075]

I hear Jim Caldwell is available

[kutta 5,494]

Finally! Praise Him.

[BoerumHill 171]

20 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

I hear Jim Caldwell is available

He’s a good man. Hire him for Ernie Accorsi role?

Jim Harbough might be available soon. Still only 57, has an NFL record (.695) that’s higher than Potsy Clark (1931-36, .689), IOW, higher than any of the Lions 27 Head Coaches.

Bevell to be the Interim HC.

[King of the Jungle 1,375]

Overpay and beg Louis Riddick to GM and hire Bienemy as coach. 
 

Regardless this is sadly a good day. Wish both well but get outta here.
 

[BoerumHill 171]

live look-in of Kenny Golladay at the Allen Park practice facility today

[TartanLion 583]

Excellent news ! Nothing against Quinn, he seemed like a good guy. Patricia I really grew to dislike tbh. Always came across like he thought he was the smartest guy in the room. 3 years of the defence being turgid was just completely unacceptable for a supposed defensive specialist 
 

Would quite like the Titans OC 

Edited November 28, 2020 by TartanLion

[TartanLion 583]

2 hours ago, Tornacl said:

Hopefully, Wood will be asked to step aside as well.

By all accounts Wood has been fine. Only came in when Martha cleaned house, and isn’t involved in football decisions. Ford field got spruced up, the logo change wasn’t bad and we have cheerleaders now. He can stay 

[swabs 44]

Bienemy has to be at the top of the list. 

[Tornacl 60]

37 minutes ago, TartanLion said:

By all accounts Wood has been fine. Only came in when Martha cleaned house, and isn’t involved in football decisions. Ford field got spruced up, the logo change wasn’t bad and we have cheerleaders now. He can stay 

That's fine if he's sprucing up Ford Field and considering changing the logo, etc., I just don't want him to have ANY say in who is brought in to be the new GM, and coach.  I also want them to bring in a football person to be in charge of all football matters.

 

[needanap 232]

1 hour ago, swabs said:

Bienemy has to be at the top of the list. 

Maybe he can help Hockensen become more Kelce like

[BoerumHill 171]

33 minutes ago, needanap said:

Maybe he can help Hockensen become more Kelce like

son has upped his yards of separation significantly in year 2. Just needs an OC to recognize that and start feeding him more.

have seen snarky Tweets today from Ashawn, Ebron, Slay...probably more I’ve missed. Boy did they hate playing for an arrogant #######.

[Da Guru 6,272]

1 hour ago, TartanLion said:

By all accounts Wood has been fine. Only came in when Martha cleaned house, and isn’t involved in football decisions. Ford field got spruced up, the logo change wasn’t bad and we have cheerleaders now. He can stay 

Sheila said at her presser " Rod and I are going to roll up our sleeves and get to work to find a new HC and GM"  Rod and I?? Rod Wood is a financial advisor who admitted when hired he does not know much about football.

I can roll up my sleeves, watch YouTube and try to tile my bathroom but if I don`t know what I am doing it won`t matter.

[BoerumHill 171]

18 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Sheila said at her presser " Rod and I are going to roll up our sleeves and get to work to find a new HC and GM"  Rod and I?? Rod Wood is a financial advisor who admitted when hired he does not know much about football.

I can roll up my sleeves, watch YouTube and try to tile my bathroom but if I don`t know what I am doing it won`t matter.

I have good news for you, friend.

[Sea Duck 1,000]

Can they just bring back Jim Caldwell?

[JetMaxx 1,050]

Just now, Sea Duck said:

Can they just bring back Jim Caldwell?

Jim Schwartz is going to be available 

[jrt103 280]

good riddance 

Detroit Lions... rebuilding since 1952

[BoerumHill 171]

2 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Can they just bring back Jim Caldwell?

You ever go back with an Ex?

Errrytime they start doing stuff that reminds you why they got dumped in the first place. #forward

3 minutes ago, jrt103 said:

good riddance 

Detroit Lions... rebuilding since 1952

‘52-‘57 they won 3 titles and finished runner up another time. 4 NFL Championship games in six years. Everything back then was white, gray or black. Must have been weird bc no color.

 

 

Haven’t gone to the NCAA well in 35 years. That or youngest coordinator nobody has heard of are my preferences.

[Sea Duck 1,000]

2 minutes ago, BoerumHill said:

12 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Can they just bring back Jim Caldwell?

You ever go back with an Ex?

Errrytime they start doing stuff that reminds you why they got dumped in the first place. #forward

Jim Caldwell is like the ex-girlfriend that you dumped because she wasn't pretty enough, and then you realize 3 years later that she was a helluva cook and would have made a great wife.

[BoerumHill 171]

Just now, Sea Duck said:

Jim Caldwell is like the ex-girlfriend that you dumped because she wasn't pretty enough, and then you realize 3 years later that she was a helluva cook and would have made a great wife.

That’s actually a pretty good analogy. No snark, he is a good man and a leader of men. Had no ####s to give in his weekly presser but the players loved him. Well, the players loved Fontes...more accurate to say they loved AND respected Jim Caldwell.

[Biabreakable 5,096]

First of all congratulations on getting rid of Patricia. He was terrible. It would take great skill and ineptitude to pick someone worse. Maybe the Lions are capable of doing that, but I think the odds are in the Lions favor that the next coach will be an improvement.

I totally agree it has to start with the GM. The GM and HC need to be aligned for the team to make progress.

Here is an article talking about top GM candidates.

I don't see Ridick listed here but he is one of the more intelligent talking heads the NFL has. I think almost anyone will be better than Patricia but thats not saying much.

[TartanLion 583]

They need to hire an experienced football guy exec. Not an Accorsi that seemed to do due diligence, get people in, then just left as it was temporary hire for finding people. Someone of his ilk that doesn’t then just leave a rookie GM to totally do his own thing. From what I’ve read, it isn’t per se a problem with current ownership ie Martha/Shiela era, but a disconnect with how things are run. Football at the training facility, and business side of things were entirely camped at Ford Field where there were no checks and measures as to what’s going on day to day at the training facility. 
 

Need a very experienced Exec at the top who is there to guide and see that standards are being kept up day to day. 

[Da Guru 6,272]

13 hours ago, swabs said:

Bienemy has to be at the top of the list. 

Rumor is Houston is going after him.   Working with a young proven franchise QB like Watson makes it a more attractive job than coming to the Lions with an old QB who might be on the way out.

[Uruk-Hai 7,471]

The Ravens Director of Player Personnel, Joe Horitz (sp?), might be worth a phone call. He came up through the ranks under Ozzie, Savage, and DeCosta. He was their college scouting director, among other duties. He's not incredibly young - he's been with Baltimore for a couple of decades - but has had a ton of input in their drafts and roster-building.

Bisciotti tends to write bigger checks to guys he doesn't want to leave, but Horitz seems to me to be ready to run a team.

[Razors Edge 71]

I am not trying to insult Lions fans, though I feel I may.

Why are people a fan of this team? After some thought, I have no understanding of why even home grown fans are still fans in 2020.

Loyalty some will say maybe, but where has that gotten you in 50 years? No success in 50 years. They dont even make an effort.

They have made hall of famers mad and just retire by their inability to have success. They had players retire instead of being traded to them like Gronk and Im sure many more. They are owned by the Fords, who do nothing to help the team. Being a fan of a team instead owned by them instead of a complete boycott to force the owners to sell is something I think real fans would do.

They have not won the Division since 1993 or won a playoff game since 1991. If you are 30 year old Lions fan, what are you doing with your fandom? 

Does being from a city earn your fandom? What have the Lions ever done besides take tax money from their fans as they moved away from Detroit to Pontiac and took more tax money as a bribe to come back? $250 million is what it cost the fanbase for a franchise that has done nothing, not counting the Millions back in 75 for Pontiac, to come back to the city it abandoned.

Lions fans, maybe its time to look at the team you are a fan of...maybe its not the team, its the fan base who continues to tolerate these bad performances by buying merch and I know we are in Covid, but explain why you went to games the previous 50 years? 

What are you a fan of? If its some emotional attachment, lol. You get the very performance you deserve. 

Lions fans/supporters... Being a fan of this team is an national embarrassment. 😉 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Razors Edge

[bmsarvis 34]

16 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I am not trying to insult Lions fans, though I feel I may.

Why are people a fan of this team? After some thought, I have no understanding of why even home grown fans are still fans in 2020.

Loyalty some will say maybe, but where has that gotten you in 50 years? No success in 50 years. They dont even make an effort.

They have made hall of famers mad and just retire by their inability to have success. They had players retire instead of being traded to them like Gronk and Im sure many more. They are owned by the Fords, who do nothing to help the team. Being a fan of a team instead owned by them instead of a complete boycott to force the owners to sell is something I think real fans would do.

They have not won the Division since 1993 or won a playoff game since 1991. If you are 30 year old Lions fan, what are you doing with your fandom? 

Does being from a city earn your fandom? What have the Lions ever done besides take tax money from their fans as they moved away from Detroit to Pontiac and took more tax money as a bribe to come back? $250 million is what it cost the fanbase for a franchise that has done nothing, not counting the Millions back in 75 for Pontiac, to come back to the city it abandoned.

Lions fans, maybe its time to look at the team you are a fan of...maybe its not the team, its the fan base who continues to tolerate these bad performances by buying merch and I know we are in Covid, but explain why you went to games the previous 50 years? 

What are you a fan of? If its some emotional attachment, lol. You get the very performance you deserve. 

Lions fans/supporters... Being a fan of this team is an national embarrassment. 😉 

 

I really don’t have an answer for ya. But I suspect it’s mostly because it’s the only game on at one o clock lol

[Tornacl 60]

2 hours ago, Uruk-Hai said:

The Ravens Director of Player Personnel, Joe Horitz (sp?), might be worth a phone call. He came up through the ranks under Ozzie, Savage, and DeCosta. He was their college scouting director, among other duties. He's not incredibly young - he's been with Baltimore for a couple of decades - but has had a ton of input in their drafts and roster-building.

Bisciotti tends to write bigger checks to guys he doesn't want to leave, but Horitz seems to me to be ready to run a team.

He would be my top choice.  When is the last time you've said "Man that was a bad pick by the Ravens"?  And if you did say it, three years later you were probably thinking, "that pick wasn't so bad."  They just seem to own the draft every year, make good cap decisions, etc.

[Tornacl 60]

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

I am not trying to insult Lions fans, though I feel I may.

Why are people a fan of this team? After some thought, I have no understanding of why even home grown fans are still fans in 2020.

Loyalty some will say maybe, but where has that gotten you in 50 years? No success in 50 years. They dont even make an effort.

They have made hall of famers mad and just retire by their inability to have success. They had players retire instead of being traded to them like Gronk and Im sure many more. They are owned by the Fords, who do nothing to help the team. Being a fan of a team instead owned by them instead of a complete boycott to force the owners to sell is something I think real fans would do.

They have not won the Division since 1993 or won a playoff game since 1991. If you are 30 year old Lions fan, what are you doing with your fandom? 

Does being from a city earn your fandom? What have the Lions ever done besides take tax money from their fans as they moved away from Detroit to Pontiac and took more tax money as a bribe to come back? $250 million is what it cost the fanbase for a franchise that has done nothing, not counting the Millions back in 75 for Pontiac, to come back to the city it abandoned.

Lions fans, maybe its time to look at the team you are a fan of...maybe its not the team, its the fan base who continues to tolerate these bad performances by buying merch and I know we are in Covid, but explain why you went to games the previous 50 years? 

What are you a fan of? If its some emotional attachment, lol. You get the very performance you deserve. 

Lions fans/supporters... Being a fan of this team is an national embarrassment. 😉 

 

I'm not saying this to be funny, nor to in any way make light of a very serious issue, but in many ways it is probably very similar to why abused spouses stay by their abusers.

And by the way, most Lions' fans say the same thing:  "I'm a long-suffering Lions' fan."

[Uruk-Hai 7,471]

8 minutes ago, Tornacl said:

He would be my top choice.  When is the last time you've said "Man that was a bad pick by the Ravens"?  And if you did say it, three years later you were probably thinking, "that pick wasn't so bad."  They just seem to own the draft every year, make good cap decisions, etc.

Their big cap "mistake" was signing Flacco after the 2013, which hampered them for years. I put "mistake" in quotes because they really had no choice. Flacco bet on himself and turned into Joe Montana in the '12 SB run. And it wasn't like the Ravens fell off a cliff after that - except for one year, they haven't had a losing season since. They seem to know most of the time when to re-sign or cut bait. 

As for their drafts, they have been able to flip their roster several times over the last 20 years and (mostly) remain competitive because they hit a ton of mid-to-late draft picks and UDFAs. And they've also done well with their 1st-rounders.

Baltimore's last 10 1st rounds:

2011 (27) Jimmy Smith CB. He was PB-caliber in his prime, but always missed a few games per season. He's still a valuable DB playing a hybrid CB/S.

2012 No Pick. They traded back into the 2nd, but I can't recall who they chose.

2013 (32) Matt Elam S. Flat out bust.

2014 (17) CJ Mosely LB. Made the PB a couple of times and then got rich when the Ravens couldn't sign him and the NYJ broke open the vault.

2015 (26) Breshad Perriman WR. Flat out bust for Baltimore. He's still playing, though.

2016 (6) Ronnie Stanley OT. All Pro

2017 (16) Marlon Humphrey CB. All Pro

2018 (25) Hayden Hurst TE. Just never seemed to fit, but a good player. Got traded for the pick that became JK Dobbins.

2018 (32) Lamar Jackson QB. All Pro & MVP

2019 (25) Marquis Brown WR. Good rookie season. Bad 2nd season, just like the rest of Baltimore's offense.

2020 (28) Patrick Queen LB. Has flashed really well at times and also looked lost at times.

Average 1st round position is 23.4

[Dickies 9,331]

9 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

First of all congratulations on getting rid of Patricia. He was terrible. It would take great skill and ineptitude to pick someone worse. Maybe the Lions are capable of doing that, but I think the odds are in the Lions favor that the next coach will be an improvement.

I totally agree it has to start with the GM. The GM and HC need to be aligned for the team to make progress.

Here is an article talking about top GM candidates.

I don't see Ridick listed here but he is one of the more intelligent talking heads the NFL has. I think almost anyone will be better than Patricia but thats not saying much.

This is the Lions we’re talking about

[matuski 4,958]

As a Lions fan of 30+ years I have become very cynical.  I am greatly amused by people celebrating coaching changes with this franchise.

Like it matters.

Edited November 29, 2020 by matuski

[Tornacl 60]

22 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

Their big cap "mistake" was signing Flacco after the 2013, which hampered them for years. I put "mistake" in quotes because they really had no choice. Flacco bet on himself and turned into Joe Montana in the '12 SB run. And it wasn't like the Ravens fell off a cliff after that - except for one year, they haven't had a losing season since. They seem to know most of the time when to re-sign or cut bait. 

As for their drafts, they have been able to flip their roster several times over the last 20 years and (mostly) remain competitive because they hit a ton of mid-to-late draft picks and UDFAs. And they've also done well with their 1st-rounders.

Baltimore's last 10 1st rounds:

2011 (27) Jimmy Smith CB. He was PB-caliber in his prime, but always missed a few games per season. He's still a valuable DB playing a hybrid CB/S.

2012 No Pick. They traded back into the 2nd, but I can't recall who they chose.

2013 (32) Matt Elam S. Flat out bust.

2014 (17) CJ Mosely LB. Made the PB a couple of times and then got rich when the Ravens couldn't sign him and the NYJ broke open the vault.

2015 (26) Breshad Perriman WR. Flat out bust for Baltimore. He's still playing, though.

2016 (6) Ronnie Stanley OT. All Pro

2017 (16) Marlon Humphrey CB. All Pro

2018 (25) Hayden Hurst TE. Just never seemed to fit, but a good player. Got traded for the pick that became JK Dobbins.

2018 (32) Lamar Jackson QB. All Pro & MVP

2019 (25) Marquis Brown WR. Good rookie season. Bad 2nd season, just like the rest of Baltimore's offense.

2020 (28) Patrick Queen LB. Has flashed really well at times and also looked lost at times.

Average 1st round position is 23.4

The Lions routinely miss on top 10 picks.  They have no concept of which positions are most important to building a good football team, as evidenced by three 1st round picks on TEs (two of them top 10) since 2009.  Instead of building powerful lines, look at the positions they've drafted with top 10 picks since 2000:  2 QBs (necessary); 4 WRs; 2 TEs; 1 LB; 1 CB, 1 DT, and 1 DE (who was an absolute reach - Ansah).  One of the TEs (Ebron) is even worse when you look at the 6 picks afterward:  Taylor Lewan, Odell Beckham Jr, Aaron Donald, Kyle Fuller, Ryan Shazier, and Zach Martin. One of the WRs (Mike Williams) had sat out the college football season, but I'm glad they took him instead of the guy that was being focused on in the "Green Room" for a sudden and unexpected fall, Aaron Rodgers.

Their cap ineptitude with Stafford and Suh made it so they didn't get anything in return except a compensatory pick when Suh left.  Since they've never made it to the Super Bowl, they haven't had a chance to overpay a Super Bowl hero.