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DETROIT LIONS 2020: Lions hire Brad Holmes as new GM...WHO???


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3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

I am not trying to insult Lions fans, though I feel I may.

Why are people a fan of this team? After some thought, I have no understanding of why even home grown fans are still fans in 2020.

Loyalty some will say maybe, but where has that gotten you in 50 years? No success in 50 years. They dont even make an effort.

They have made hall of famers mad and just retire by their inability to have success. They had players retire instead of being traded to them like Gronk and Im sure many more. They are owned by the Fords, who do nothing to help the team. Being a fan of a team instead owned by them instead of a complete boycott to force the owners to sell is something I think real fans would do.

They have not won the Division since 1993 or won a playoff game since 1991. If you are 30 year old Lions fan, what are you doing with your fandom? 

Does being from a city earn your fandom? What have the Lions ever done besides take tax money from their fans as they moved away from Detroit to Pontiac and took more tax money as a bribe to come back? $250 million is what it cost the fanbase for a franchise that has done nothing, not counting the Millions back in 75 for Pontiac, to come back to the city it abandoned.

Lions fans, maybe its time to look at the team you are a fan of...maybe its not the team, its the fan base who continues to tolerate these bad performances by buying merch and I know we are in Covid, but explain why you went to games the previous 50 years? 

What are you a fan of? If its some emotional attachment, lol. You get the very performance you deserve. 

Lions fans/supporters... Being a fan of this team is an national embarrassment. 😉 

 

I always thought I was a Barry Sanders fan.

Then he retired and I kept rooting for them.  I have no idea.

I do know that as I get older I care less and less about these things, and therefore lack any real motivation to root for another team (that I also wouldn't care much about).

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I’m usually not one to get caught up in “celebrity” lives, but as a parent my ♥️ goes out to Matthew & Kelly. Her six hour brain surgery morphed into a twelve hour procedure, but she’s walking and

I hate being a fan of this team, I hate being a fan of this team, I hate being a fan of this team.

Has Jim Caldwell under or over achieved? Well, let's look at the body of work. 2014 First off, let's recognize how sorry the history of this franchise has been. 11-5 might be a ho hum season

14 minutes ago, Dickies said:

This is the Lions we’re talking about

Yesterday's optimism was quickly removed by this statement (I'm paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote) by the owner, Sheila Ford Hamp:  Rod and I need to roll our sleeves up and get to work picking a new GM and coach.

Rod Wood admitted when they hired him to be the President that he really didn't know much about football.  He should have absolutely no involvement in choosing the next GM and coach.  Before they look for a new GM and coach, they need to bring in a "football guy" (or gal) to make ALL football-related decisions.  Someone with a competitive instinct that wants to build a winning football team.  This person should have total control to decide when the GM or coaching staff needs to go.

The problem with the Lions is that they are loyal to a fault, giving people way more chances than they deserve.  Patricia and Quinn showed absolutely nothing in the previous two years to show ANY improvement.  Bringing them back with a "win now" mandate was a waste of a year, and worse yet, it destroyed any hope of leveraging their draft position to make some major changes. 

How they could not create a situation to get MIA, SD, or some other team to trade up to get one of the QBs is beyond me.  A well-run team would've been able to leverage that to get at least a 2nd round pick out of it.  Instead, the Lions spent the entire off-season ensuring the rest of the NFL that Matt Stafford was not for sale - thereby telegraphing they would NOT be drafting a QB with the pick.  Personally, I would've brought in Stafford and told him: "You are our QB.  But we want to get more picks to build around you. Let your wife Tweet whatever she wants.  You can help with that by saying you would be open to being traded.  We will say we are listening to offers."  That simple exchange, and then following up on it, would've created enough pressure for either MIA or SD to believe that standing pat could leave them out.  I would've even followed that up as far as drafting Tua (because MIA had better draft capital).

But since two non-football people will be deciding how the franchise will be run, there is no real hope for the future.  Same 'ol Lions.

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Lions fans donate to Deshaun Watson’s charity in droves after Thanksgiving blowout

Nice story here; just thanking the man who helped seal the deal. Watson matched the Lions fans effort dollar for dollar.

Errrbody on r/DetroitLions was tossing in $13 last night. One dollar for each of Coach Patricia’s 3-year win total.

.314

Third worst in team history (27 HCs).

Wait a second...

13-29-1 

13.50/43 =   

.313953488372093

3.1415926535l89793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816062862089986280348253421170679

 

OK, just had to make sure it wasn’t π

Coach probably doesn’t need any more 🥧

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On 11/29/2020 at 11:49 AM, Tornacl said:

Yesterday's optimism was quickly removed by this statement (I'm paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote) by the owner, Sheila Ford Hamp:  Rod and I need to roll our sleeves up and get to work picking a new GM and coach.

Rod Wood admitted when they hired him to be the President that he really didn't know much about football.  He should have absolutely no involvement in choosing the next GM and coach.  Before they look for a new GM and coach, they need to bring in a "football guy" (or gal) to make ALL football-related decisions.  Someone with a competitive instinct that wants to build a winning football team.  This person should have total control to decide when the GM or coaching staff needs to go.

The problem with the Lions is that they are loyal to a fault, giving people way more chances than they deserve.  Patricia and Quinn showed absolutely nothing in the previous two years to show ANY improvement.  Bringing them back with a "win now" mandate was a waste of a year, and worse yet, it destroyed any hope of leveraging their draft position to make some major changes. 

How they could not create a situation to get MIA, SD, or some other team to trade up to get one of the QBs is beyond me.  A well-run team would've been able to leverage that to get at least a 2nd round pick out of it.  Instead, the Lions spent the entire off-season ensuring the rest of the NFL that Matt Stafford was not for sale - thereby telegraphing they would NOT be drafting a QB with the pick.  Personally, I would've brought in Stafford and told him: "You are our QB.  But we want to get more picks to build around you. Let your wife Tweet whatever she wants.  You can help with that by saying you would be open to being traded.  We will say we are listening to offers."  That simple exchange, and then following up on it, would've created enough pressure for either MIA or SD to believe that standing pat could leave them out.  I would've even followed that up as far as drafting Tua (because MIA had better draft capital).

But since two non-football people will be deciding how the franchise will be run, there is no real hope for the future.  Same 'ol Lions.

I think Sheila is going to be different than Mom and Dad and will strive to be competitive. I'm not too bothered by her statement of Rod Wood helping her.  Its all about the process, who they receive input from. GM is first decision and then get input from that GM regarding coaching choice. I'll support SHF until proven otherwise.

LIons have tried different approaches that have failed. Matt Millen was a "football man" but he had no front office experience, refused to move his family to the Detroit area and commuted between PA and Detroit which was a lack of commitment which showed in how he approached the job.

Lions Tried the Patriots approach which seems to fail without Tom Brady.

 WCF got input from Hunt which failed. 

WCF let Russ Thomas sabotage anyone who got in his way including, Joe Schmidt, the best coach the Lions had in Ford era.

 

 

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GM Candidates

Aside - I’m not considering tv personalities, we know how that ends. Cribbed this from a couple blog posts and yesterday’s SI article on the subject.

1.) Adam Peters, San Francisco 49ers vice president of player personnel

Peters has learned from one of the most adept individuals at running a front office in John Lynch. 

Lynch hired Peters in 2017 to be the team's vice president of player personnel -- a job he still holds to this day with the 49ers.

Prior to joining San Francisco, he spent eight years in Denver (2009-16), starting off as a regional scout and eventually rising to the position of director of college scouting.

He not only helped construct two AFC championship teams with the Broncos, including a Super Bowl championship squad in 2015, but he also aided in building the 49ers into NFC champions a season ago. 

Additionally, San Francisco has drafted well since '17 -- a credit to Lynch but also to Peters. It played a factor in the franchise making a Super Bowl appearance last year.

Quinn, meanwhile, was not known for producing the strongest draft hauls. 

So, it'd be a nice change of pace to have someone leading the front office that's capable of doing so.

While there's no guarantee, there's a rather strong possibility that hiring Peters would also result in the hiring of Dearborn, Mich., native and present 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh to be Patricia's successor. 

Although offensive play-callers are more of the hot commodities in today's game, Saleh would be considered a home-run hire due to his ties to the metro Detroit area. 

Peters and Saleh would sure be a duo that would make the Lions fanbase happy.

2.) Ed Dodds: Assistant General Manager (Colts)

Dodds will be one of the hottest names on the market within a pool of incredibly qualified candidates, but he may also be the one with the most moxie of the bunch, absolutely. 

After helping build one of the best defenses in the NFL in Seattle, the “Legion of Boom,” originally joining the Seahawks in 2007, Dodds has seen similar success with the Colts joining GM Chris Ballard in Indianapolis in 2017. Dodds is a respected scout within the NFL and reportedly declined an interview with the Cleveland Browns in January for its GM post. 

This year, however, Dodds will be a lead candidate yet again, and perhaps he won’t pass up on the opportunity. 

After spending 10 seasons with the Seahawks, most recently Seattle’s senior personnel executive responsible for evaluating both college and pro talent, Dodds was promoted to assistant GM with the Colts in 2018. Seattle posted six winning seasons, five NFC West titles and 10 playoff wins, along with two Super Bowl appearances (one win), during his tenure. 

The Colts, under Ballard and Dodds, have built one of the best rosters in the NFL, and are currently in second place in the AFC South at 7-4. 

3.) Mike Borgonzi - Director of Football Operations (Chiefs)

Borgonzi will no doubt be a household name among the teams that need a general manager following the conclusion of the 2020 season, and for good reason. He would be hired as a College Scouting Administrator for the Chiefs in 2009 and work his way up the ladder, eventually landing at the post he holds today as the team’s director of football operations. 

Since he’s been witht he Chiefs, they’ve posted just three losing records, once in 2009 (4-12), 2011 (7-9) and 2012 (2-14). Learning under former Chiefs GM Scott Pioli, and now current GM Brett Veach, Borgonzi has seen the franchise headed under plenty of success. Primarily a pro scout during his career, Borgonzi has still been heavily involved in the scouting department on collegiate side.

While most would point to quarterback Patrick Mahomes as the great get by the Chiefs during Borgonzi’s tenure, as they should, there have been plenty of “hits” other than the quarterback position, too. 

The major hits in the first round include Eric Berry (2010), Dontari Poe (2012), Eric Fisher (2013), Marcus Peters (2015), Chris Jones (2016), Mecole Hardman (2019). The jury is certainly still out on 2020 first-round pick Clyde Edwards-Helaire, but the early returns are solid enough.

Borgonzi will likely be the No. 1 “prospect” for many teams following the season, and the Jaguars would be smart to bring in someone who comes from such a successful franchise. With no doubt plenty of opportunity to present an efficient scouting department, the team-building aspect that Borgonzi brings should be enticing. 

4.) Pittsburgh Steelers general manager/vice president Kevin Colbert

This is definitely a pipe dream candidate right here, as there's been no indication that he'd be willing to leave his post with the Steelers. 

He's been with the Steelers since 2000, and has overseen two Super Bowl championship-winning teams. 

During his run in Pittsburgh, the Steelers have also suffered just one losing season (in 2003). 

Meanwhile, in stark contrast, the Lions have experienced 15 losing seasons in the same time span, and it's 16, if you include the 2020 campaign. 

5.) Brandon Hunt: Pro Scouting Coordinator (Steelers)

Hunt will be incredibly tough to get from Pittsburgh as he is widely thought of as the heir apparent to current Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert. 

Currently the team’s pro scouting coordinator, Hunt originally joined the Steelers’ personnel department as an intern from 2005-06, before spending two years in Houston as a pro scout, and re-joining the Steelers in 2009. Hunt has now spent 11 years in his current role, scouting opponents and evaluating the pro side of things. 

Hunt has, however, worked along wide Colbert and the Pittsburgh scouting department on the collegiate end, playing an active role in acquiring linebacker Devin Bush, drafted 10th overall in 2019, and running back Benny Snell in the fourth round of the same draft. 

The Steelers have been one of the most-successful NFL franchises in the NFL over the past two decades, posting just one losing record (6-10, 2003). Currently, Pittsburgh is the only undefeated team in the NFL, boasting one of the deepest rosters - offensively and defensively - in the NFL. 

Hunt, while he is primarily accustomed to the “pro” side of things, would come with plenty of experience and success in one of the best franchises in the NFL. While his scouting department would have to be deep, he should have no problem filling it.

6.) Joe Hortiz: Director of Player Personnel (Ravens)

If, by now, you’ve noticed a trend, you’re not wrong. The candidates on this list, for the most part, come from hugely successful franchise and Hortiz is no different. 

Currently in his 22nd season with the Baltimore Ravens, second as the team’s director of player personnel, Hortiz comes with plenty of experience and is part of what is widely thought of as the best front office in the NFL. Hortiz worked his way from the bottom of the scouting department to essentially the top. 

Prior to his recent promotion in 2019, Hortiz spent nine years as the team’s director of college scouting, responsible for all aspects of the college process, coordinating schedules, and cross-checking duties of the area and regional scouts.

Under both former Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome and current Ravens GM Eric DeCosta, Hortiz helped assemble one of the best rosters in the NFL, and was responsible for draft preparation and the evaluation and ranking process of “hundreds” of NFL draft-eligible prospects. 

According to the Ravens’ PR, Hortiz scouted several of the Ravens’ top players, including Ronnie Stanley (2016), C.J. Mosley (2014), Brandon Williams, Rick Wagner and Kyle Juszcyk in 2013, among others. Hortiz also scouted former Ravens guard Ben Grubs in 2007. 

The Jaguars would be wise to pluck from one of the best front offices in the NFL, especially landing someone such as Hortiz who comes with plenty of experience and success. The Ravens have consistently been one of the best teams in the NFL over the past decade and change, posting just two losing records since 2006 (5-11, 2007 and 5-11, 2015).

7.) Ex-Houston Texans GM Rick Smith

Before former Texans head coach and general manager Bill O'Brien destroyed the franchise with roster-crippling moves, such as trading star wideout DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals, Smith had started to put the pieces in place to make Houston a consistent playoff contender. 

Smith took over as the team's general manager in 2006, and was later elevated to the position of executive vice president of football operations. 

He stepped down in 2017 to care for his ailing wife. 

While in charge of the Texans' front office, he was responsible for drafting some high-end talent, including Hopkins, J.J. Watt and Deshaun Watson, who ended up being his final first-round pick with the organization. 

Detroit is in dire need of a young franchise passer, and should be selecting one in next year's NFL Draft. 

If Smith's up to the challenge and ready to return to the NFL, I wouldn't mind entrusting him with such a responsibility.

8.) Former Atlanta Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff

Dimitroff was fired along with Dan Quinn earlier this season, after the Falcons jumped out to a disappointing 0-5 start to the campaign. 

He's primarily on this list, because he built the Atlanta squad that won the NFC during the 2016 season. 

However, it should also be noted that the Falcons made the playoffs in four of Dimitroff's first five years in Atlanta, including during his very first season in 2008. 

He was more successful than not during his 12-year run in Atlanta (2008-2020), as the Falcons went 113-90 in that span. 

His resume tells me that he definitely at least warrants consideration for Detroit's general manager vacancy.

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16 hours ago, BoerumHill said:

Robert Saleh seems like a good choice

fight me

To be fair, is any new coach going to have success with this team?

Detroit is not desired location and players can take less to play for a team like Jacksonville even and make more cuz of no state taxes.

Start there then add no history of winning, front office that has a history of obtuse acts and just so little talent on the team. No one will be the savior as a HC.

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The Bears have lost 5 straight, and were boat raced by the Pack. Trubisky played like, oh right, Trubisky. Which of course means he’ll look like Russ Wilson Sunday. Literally the only three good games he’s had the last two years were versus the Lions (3-0.)

But if the Chicago death spiral continues, Arizona loses its 3rd straight and 4/5 against the Rams - their only November win was the miracle to Nuk v the Bills - well guess what, folks? We’re playing meaningful games in December.

 

I’m NOT suggesting any of those things happen. What I am observing is holy crap do you realize how close we came to not firing Patricia? Tip of the hat to Watson and the recently departed Fuller - we owe you guys one

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1 hour ago, BoerumHill said:

The Bears have lost 5 straight, and were boat raced by the Pack. Trubisky played like, oh right, Trubisky. Which of course means he’ll look like Russ Wilson Sunday. Literally the only three good games he’s had the last two years were versus the Lions (3-0.)

Sorry, middle age.

Trubisky is 4-0 in his last four starts va the Lions, and he threw 3 TDs in all of them. In 21 other starts against NFL teams during that time, he had two other 3 TD games (and 3 INTs in those 2.) 

12 TDs, 1 INT. That ratio is 22-19 against the rest of the league.

Twice he has topped 338 yards vs Detroit, which is one more than the number 300 yard games he has against everyone else.

QB Rating VS. Patricia‘s D 125.5    
QB Rating VS. Errrrybody else 77.8

:oldunsure:

If Julio can’t go Sunday I’m rolling with Darnell Mooney 

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19 hours ago, BoerumHill said:

Sorry, middle age.

Trubisky is 4-0 in his last four starts va the Lions, and he threw 3 TDs in all of them. In 21 other starts against NFL teams during that time, he had two other 3 TD games (and 3 INTs in those 2.) 

12 TDs, 1 INT. That ratio is 22-19 against the rest of the league.

Twice he has topped 338 yards vs Detroit, which is one more than the number 300 yard games he has against everyone else.

QB Rating VS. Patricia‘s D 125.5    
QB Rating VS. Errrrybody else 77.8

:oldunsure:

If Julio can’t go Sunday I’m rolling with Darnell Mooney 

Just how bad the Lions defense has been is that Trubisky lights them up. And you can put the name of any QB in for Trubisky.

We should see a difference in scheme and intensity from Lions this week. 

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On 11/29/2020 at 10:12 AM, Dickies said:

This is the Lions we’re talking about

Thats fair. The Lions seem like a team without a clear vision of who they want to be and how to get there.

That comes from the GM and coach I think. So there is an opportunity here for something new.

I am not sure who the best options for that may be.

I do have a lot of respect for what Stefanski has been able to do in Cleveland this season. He wanted to work with George Paton assistant GM of the Vikings who has been talked about for these jobs before this as well. So likely a good option and perhaps better options than him available.

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6 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

 

That comes from the GM and coach I think. So there is an opportunity here for something new.

 

My lifetime of experience across who knows how many coaches and GMs would be very strong evidence to the contrary for this team.

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So the Lions are prioritizing the coach position over the GM position?  Anyone wonder why they've been inept for 60+ years?

Not only can't they pick the right people to fill the roles, they can't even get the order right on how they should fill them.  No wonder they are incapable of understanding why they've failed for so many years.  Same old Lions.

ETA link:

https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/gm-rumor-lions-interested-in-john-dorsey?fbclid=IwAR1WQ9s5-MFFYo7tuPnSBrmAXUN-EEnvySE8tuq4x67glN1D4a_ePtGRNYo

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1 hour ago, Moonlight said:

Hurts. Best two playmakers. I'd like to see Kerryon get more playing time this week. Just think he adds more options to offense than ADP and when not injured played well.

Agreed.  I recently posted about Kerryon being a possible RB waiver claim for at least this week. Maybe they will just use AP as the short yardage guy. Hard to tell right now with the top 2 decision makers out the door.

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According to Pro Football Network, "Bieniemy has experience working with John Dorsey in Kansas City, who Allbright has heard is high on the Lions’ wishlist, and there are expectations that the two could package themselves together. The Lions are taking a different approach, though. The team is looking to hire a head coach and find a general manager who can work with him, rather than hiring a GM and asking them to lead the head coaching search."

:lol:

When has that EVER worked?

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10 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

:lol:

When has that EVER worked?

The Lions have demonstrated numerous times they have no understanding of the relative value of player positions, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised they lack the same understanding when it comes to front office positions.

I really believe that if you were to sit down with the Fords, not one of them would have any idea whatsoever as to why they have been bad for so long.  But for an ownership so incredibly incapable of identifying talent (GMs, coaches, and players), why would we expect them to be able to self-evaluate?  The real question is: do they even try to self evaluate why they've failed for 60+ years?

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I blame Barry Sanders for my suffering.

 

Born, raised, and reside in Michigan.  Didn't get into football until 1988/89, when I watched the Niners/Bengals Superbowl with an uncle.  Along comes Barry Sanders,  and he alone, through all of the ups and downs of the Lions in the 90's, gave me a consistent reason to watch them every Sunday.  I went to numerous games, even the lone playoff win.  I wore my Honolulu Blue and Silver with pride, because we had Barry. 

That commitment, in those formative years, has done irreparable damage to my well being.  I'm too old to change teams now.  I stuck with it post Barry, while Millen lit it all on fire and puffed his chest out while doing so.   I stuck with it when after Millen, when they recognized he was a complete failure... and the only way forward was to hire his assistant.  I stuck with 0-16.  I stuck with Schwartz and his stuborness, Caldwell and his calm but underachieving.  I stuck with it when they convinced me that this was the one time that "The Patriot Way" was going to be successfully imported into another organization.  I'll stick with them after whatever they do now, even as the rumors and rumblings are that they are once again taking a Lions™ approach to the hire and considering coach first. 

 

I blame Barry for all of it.  Damn you Barry Sanders, damn you.

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32 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

:lol:

When has that EVER worked?

SF hired Shanahan before Lynch. I think this approach will be more common moving forward for head coaches that deem worthy of it.

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30 minutes ago, Tornacl said:

The Lions have demonstrated numerous times they have no understanding of the relative value of player positions, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised they lack the same understanding when it comes to front office positions.

I really believe that if you were to sit down with the Fords, not one of them would have any idea whatsoever as to why they have been bad for so long.  But for an ownership so incredibly incapable of identifying talent (GMs, coaches, and players), why would we expect them to be able to self-evaluate?  The real question is: do they even try to self evaluate why they've failed for 60+ years?

 

These are very fair criticisms. The Lions have been a disaster for the entirety of the Ford Family reign (since 1963). However, two things:

 

1) I always somewhat defend the Fords because it does appear that they do want to win. They aren't cheap - they have a great stadium they invested in, by all accounts excellent practice facilities, willing to spend for free agents, etc. That is something you can't say for all sports owners. So I do think the Ford Family does want to win. They are just terrible at actually doing it.

 

2) This is the first time Sheila Ford Hamp will be making the decisions. So maybe it will go better?

 

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Honestly guys, would we know what a good GM looks like? I’ve been a fan since 1967.

Russ Thomas 1967-88 Former player, penny pinching CPA.

Chuck Schmidt 1988-2000 Drafted Barry...umm...what else? No seriously, did build a good team but Fontea never did anything with that group except for the “One for the Thumb” drive.

Matt Millen 2001-08 I cannot type anything about this period without getting triggered so let’s just say “#### that guy” bc it needs no explain.

Martin Mayhew 2008-15 We hired the protege of someone who is arguably the worst GM in North American team sports. You won’t believe what happens next!

Sheldon White 2015 (interim)

Bob Quinn 2016-2020

:shrug:

Dafuq would we know about what a good football executive looks like?

IDK the answer but poching a riser from the Chiefs, Colts, Ravens or Steelers is as good of an idea as any.

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7 hours ago, whoknew said:

 

These are very fair criticisms. The Lions have been a disaster for the entirety of the Ford Family reign (since 1963). However, two things:

 

1) I always somewhat defend the Fords because it does appear that they do want to win. They aren't cheap - they have a great stadium they invested in, by all accounts excellent practice facilities, willing to spend for free agents, etc. That is something you can't say for all sports owners. So I do think the Ford Family does want to win. They are just terrible at actually doing it.

 

2) This is the first time Sheila Ford Hamp will be making the decisions. So maybe it will go better?

 

Good owners hire people that understand football and give those people all that they need to win.  Bad owners make those decisions by themselves.  Jerry Jones is a brilliant business man, but he doesn't know football.  The fact that he has continued to make football decisions has kept the Cowboys from  winning more Super Bowls.  With few exceptions, if everyone knows the owner's name, that's probably a bad thing, because it means they are too involved  (Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, etc.).

The Fords may want to win, but they clearly don't know how to win.  The fact that they hired a guy with no understanding of football to be the team President, and then he and the Fords decide who to hire tells you all you need to know.  Now, if they truly plan to hire the coach and then the GM, then we'll be having this same discussion in the next five years.

Similar to the state taking over for a failing school district, I really wish the NFL would step in and force them to either hire a football guy to be the President of Football Operations or sell the team.  Unfortunately, we all know that's never going to happen, so they'll never be good.

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On 12/6/2020 at 11:10 AM, Tornacl said:

The Lions have demonstrated numerous times they have no understanding of the relative value of player positions, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised they lack the same understanding when it comes to front office positions.

I really believe that if you were to sit down with the Fords, not one of them would have any idea whatsoever as to why they have been bad for so long.  But for an ownership so incredibly incapable of identifying talent (GMs, coaches, and players), why would we expect them to be able to self-evaluate?  The real question is: do they even try to self evaluate why they've failed for 60+ years?

This is behind a paywall, but Amy Trask disagrees with you.

https://theathletic.com/2232526/2020/12/02/lions-coach-gm-amy-trask/?article_source=search&search_query=Trask

Some relevant quotes

Quote

Does this have to happen in a specific order? Do you need to have the GM first, then let the GM help you hire the coach, or can you go the opposite direction?

I am so glad you remembered this question, because … oh boy, oh boy. You just pitched that one soft and easy over the middle of the plate for me, because this is a peeve of mine. Hire the right people. And don’t worry about the order in which you hire them.

I recognize that my view on this is very different from the view of the majority. This has been my view for decades; it was my view throughout my career in the National Football League; it has remained my view since leaving the league. The order in which you hire people should not matter. Most people will say to you: “You’ve gotta hire a GM and let him bring in ‘his guy.'” This should not be about bringing in “your guy,” this should be about bringing in the right guy, and I am forever perplexed and dismayed when a GM comes into a situation and says, “Well, I’ve gotta have my guy.” You know what? Get the right guy, don’t worry about it being “your guy.”

Lemme tell you something: If the New England Patriots decided tomorrow to go out and hire a GM from outside the organization, that GM should walk in and say, “Bill Belichick is my guy.” Because to walk in and say, “I need my guy,” when you’ve got someone good in place, is just absurd. In this instance, of course, the Lions don’t have someone in place.

I do not believe the order matters. Look, at the end of the day, both the general manager and the head coach are employees of an organization. Their responsibility is to do their best to make that organization as best as it can be. And I know this: If I were the owner of a team and I found that the GM was mumbling about not having his guy and wanting to make a change, or a head coach was mumbling about not wanting the GM and wanting to make a change, I would call them both into my office and say, “If either of you ask me to choose between you two, the answer is I choose neither. Find a way to work together.”

We tell kids, little kids, all the time, “All right, you two, find a way to work it out. Find a way to work together.” Why do we expect less of adults than we do of children? And, that was my TED Talk.

I am sorry to just rant like that, but I am so passionate about it. Find the right people, the order in which you find them should not matter. Frankly, if I was interviewing someone who felt the order in which they were hired mattered, I would think very, very long and hard about whether or not I should continue to interview that person. You’re both employees.

 

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3 hours ago, Foosball God said:

This is behind a paywall, but Amy Trask disagrees with you.

https://theathletic.com/2232526/2020/12/02/lions-coach-gm-amy-trask/?article_source=search&search_query=Trask

Some relevant quotes

 

 

And that is a good example she uses, where the organization has won 6 Super Bowls in the past 20 years, and lost 3 others.  All without having a GM.  Yes, very applicable in this situation.  When a team has probably the best coach in NFL history, any GM should want to work with him.  But the Lions don't have any coach.

I think the order DOES matter, because the coach should be working for the GM, not the other way around.  If the coach and the GM don't work well together, who are they going to get rid of?

She's right in that the most important thing is that they hire the right people.

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4 hours ago, Foosball God said:

This is behind a paywall, but Amy Trask disagrees with you.

https://theathletic.com/2232526/2020/12/02/lions-coach-gm-amy-trask/?article_source=search&search_query=Trask

Some relevant quotes

 

I really get where she is coming from - I mean the New England and Detroit franchises are so similar.

Edited by matuski
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4 hours ago, matuski said:

I really get where she is coming from - I mean the New England and Detroit franchises are so similar.

She's a former Raider exec.  She's just using the example of a situation where bringing in a GM doesn't mean that you get rid of the coach, she's not saying to build things like the Patriots.

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10 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

She's a former Raider exec.  She's just using the example of a situation where bringing in a GM doesn't mean that you get rid of the coach, she's not saying to build things like the Patriots.

I understand when you have an existing coach in place, you don't necessarily want to pull a Bob Quinn and get rid of the coach.  But when you're filling both spots, I think that most rational football people would agree with filling the GM spot first.  Which is why I expect them to hire the coach first.  Going against conventional wisdom has worked so well for this franchise.  Especially in their ability to identify talent.

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32 minutes ago, Moonlight said:

Pack coming up next. Aaron Rodgers doesn't lose to Detroit. Bevell will need to score a lot of points.

31-24 is about the projected score. So yes they might have to get into the 30s to win this game.

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5 hours ago, Moonlight said:

Pack coming up next. Aaron Rodgers doesn't lose to Detroit. Bevell will need to score a lot of points.

WRONG
 

2010, 2014, 2018

 (the Pack also lost at Ford Field in 2013 & 2017 but Rodgers was injured....or too emotionally distraught & begged McCarthy not to make him play)

Stafford is 7-5 in his last 12 starts VS GB

Potentially four games left in Stafford’s Lions career

#### it, let’s win ‘em all.

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9 hours ago, Tornacl said:

I understand when you have an existing coach in place, you don't necessarily want to pull a Bob Quinn and get rid of the coach.  But when you're filling both spots, I think that most rational football people would agree with filling the GM spot first.  Which is why I expect them to hire the coach first.  Going against conventional wisdom has worked so well for this franchise.  Especially in their ability to identify talent.

When have they gone against conventional wisdom?

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

Heard yesterday that Sheila and Rod "I know nothing about football" Wood will conduct the search for a new HC and GM themselves.

Without a search firm or consultant. They will however utilize the available league resources.

”To fill the vacant CEO and COO positions, we’ll be posting on Craigslist and contacting the Department of Labor to identify the best possible candidates.”

Got me feeling all warm & fuzzy.

:thumbup:

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Just now, BoerumHill said:

Without a search firm or consultant. They will however utilize the available league resources.

”To fill the vacant CEO and COO positions, we’ll be posting on Craigslist and contacting the Department of Labor to identify the best possible candidates.”

Got me feeling all warm & fuzzy.

:thumbup:

Well Uncle Ernie got them Bob Quinn. Now he might get them Jerry Reese.

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5 minutes ago, matuski said:

The draft.

Every draft.

OK, that's a GM problem.  I was more talking about with gm/coach searches.  The Quinn hiring was roundly praised.  MM was obviously a disaster but he wasn't the first, nor has he been the last, guy that was in the broadcast booth before being a GM.  The coaches he hired weren't panned, they were all top candidates.

This is not to give them a free pass on picking the wrong people, just that it isn't really like they went off the board either.

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  • Da Guru changed the title to DETROIT LIONS 2020: Lions hire Brad Holmes as new GM...WHO???

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