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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (22 Viewers)

Sorry, middle age.

Trubisky is 4-0 in his last four starts va the Lions, and he threw 3 TDs in all of them. In 21 other starts against NFL teams during that time, he had two other 3 TD games (and 3 INTs in those 2.) 

12 TDs, 1 INT. That ratio is 22-19 against the rest of the league.

Twice he has topped 338 yards vs Detroit, which is one more than the number 300 yard games he has against everyone else.

QB Rating VS. Patricia‘s D 125.5    
QB Rating VS. Errrrybody else 77.8

:oldunsure:

If Julio can’t go Sunday I’m rolling with Darnell Mooney 
Just how bad the Lions defense has been is that Trubisky lights them up. And you can put the name of any QB in for Trubisky.

We should see a difference in scheme and intensity from Lions this week. 

 
This is the Lions we’re talking about
Thats fair. The Lions seem like a team without a clear vision of who they want to be and how to get there.

That comes from the GM and coach I think. So there is an opportunity here for something new.

I am not sure who the best options for that may be.

I do have a lot of respect for what Stefanski has been able to do in Cleveland this season. He wanted to work with George Paton assistant GM of the Vikings who has been talked about for these jobs before this as well. So likely a good option and perhaps better options than him available.

 
So the Lions are prioritizing the coach position over the GM position?  Anyone wonder why they've been inept for 60+ years?

Not only can't they pick the right people to fill the roles, they can't even get the order right on how they should fill them.  No wonder they are incapable of understanding why they've failed for so many years.  Same old Lions.

ETA link:

https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/gm-rumor-lions-interested-in-john-dorsey?fbclid=IwAR1WQ9s5-MFFYo7tuPnSBrmAXUN-EEnvySE8tuq4x67glN1D4a_ePtGRNYo

 
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Hurts. Best two playmakers. I'd like to see Kerryon get more playing time this week. Just think he adds more options to offense than ADP and when not injured played well.
Agreed.  I recently posted about Kerryon being a possible RB waiver claim for at least this week. Maybe they will just use AP as the short yardage guy. Hard to tell right now with the top 2 decision makers out the door.

 
According to Pro Football Network, "Bieniemy has experience working with John Dorsey in Kansas City, who Allbright has heard is high on the Lions’ wishlist, and there are expectations that the two could package themselves together. The Lions are taking a different approach, though. The team is looking to hire a head coach and find a general manager who can work with him, rather than hiring a GM and asking them to lead the head coaching search."
:lol:

When has that EVER worked?

 
:lol:

When has that EVER worked?
The Lions have demonstrated numerous times they have no understanding of the relative value of player positions, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised they lack the same understanding when it comes to front office positions.

I really believe that if you were to sit down with the Fords, not one of them would have any idea whatsoever as to why they have been bad for so long.  But for an ownership so incredibly incapable of identifying talent (GMs, coaches, and players), why would we expect them to be able to self-evaluate?  The real question is: do they even try to self evaluate why they've failed for 60+ years?

 
I blame Barry Sanders for my suffering.

Born, raised, and reside in Michigan.  Didn't get into football until 1988/89, when I watched the Niners/Bengals Superbowl with an uncle.  Along comes Barry Sanders,  and he alone, through all of the ups and downs of the Lions in the 90's, gave me a consistent reason to watch them every Sunday.  I went to numerous games, even the lone playoff win.  I wore my Honolulu Blue and Silver with pride, because we had Barry. 

That commitment, in those formative years, has done irreparable damage to my well being.  I'm too old to change teams now.  I stuck with it post Barry, while Millen lit it all on fire and puffed his chest out while doing so.   I stuck with it when after Millen, when they recognized he was a complete failure... and the only way forward was to hire his assistant.  I stuck with 0-16.  I stuck with Schwartz and his stuborness, Caldwell and his calm but underachieving.  I stuck with it when they convinced me that this was the one time that "The Patriot Way" was going to be successfully imported into another organization.  I'll stick with them after whatever they do now, even as the rumors and rumblings are that they are once again taking a Lions™ approach to the hire and considering coach first. 

I blame Barry for all of it.  Damn you Barry Sanders, damn you.

 
The Lions have demonstrated numerous times they have no understanding of the relative value of player positions, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised they lack the same understanding when it comes to front office positions.

I really believe that if you were to sit down with the Fords, not one of them would have any idea whatsoever as to why they have been bad for so long.  But for an ownership so incredibly incapable of identifying talent (GMs, coaches, and players), why would we expect them to be able to self-evaluate?  The real question is: do they even try to self evaluate why they've failed for 60+ years?


These are very fair criticisms. The Lions have been a disaster for the entirety of the Ford Family reign (since 1963). However, two things:

1) I always somewhat defend the Fords because it does appear that they do want to win. They aren't cheap - they have a great stadium they invested in, by all accounts excellent practice facilities, willing to spend for free agents, etc. That is something you can't say for all sports owners. So I do think the Ford Family does want to win. They are just terrible at actually doing it.

2) This is the first time Sheila Ford Hamp will be making the decisions. So maybe it will go better?

 
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Honestly guys, would we know what a good GM looks like? I’ve been a fan since 1967.

Russ Thomas 1967-88 Former player, penny pinching CPA.

Chuck Schmidt 1988-2000 Drafted Barry...umm...what else? No seriously, did build a good team but Fontea never did anything with that group except for the “One for the Thumb” drive.

Matt Millen 2001-08 I cannot type anything about this period without getting triggered so let’s just say “#### that guy” bc it needs no explain.

Martin Mayhew 2008-15 We hired the protege of someone who is arguably the worst GM in North American team sports. You won’t believe what happens next!

Sheldon White 2015 (interim)

Bob Quinn 2016-2020

:shrug:

Dafuq would we know about what a good football executive looks like?

IDK the answer but poching a riser from the Chiefs, Colts, Ravens or Steelers is as good of an idea as any.

 
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These are very fair criticisms. The Lions have been a disaster for the entirety of the Ford Family reign (since 1963). However, two things:

1) I always somewhat defend the Fords because it does appear that they do want to win. They aren't cheap - they have a great stadium they invested in, by all accounts excellent practice facilities, willing to spend for free agents, etc. That is something you can't say for all sports owners. So I do think the Ford Family does want to win. They are just terrible at actually doing it.

2) This is the first time Sheila Ford Hamp will be making the decisions. So maybe it will go better?
Good owners hire people that understand football and give those people all that they need to win.  Bad owners make those decisions by themselves.  Jerry Jones is a brilliant business man, but he doesn't know football.  The fact that he has continued to make football decisions has kept the Cowboys from  winning more Super Bowls.  With few exceptions, if everyone knows the owner's name, that's probably a bad thing, because it means they are too involved  (Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, etc.).

The Fords may want to win, but they clearly don't know how to win.  The fact that they hired a guy with no understanding of football to be the team President, and then he and the Fords decide who to hire tells you all you need to know.  Now, if they truly plan to hire the coach and then the GM, then we'll be having this same discussion in the next five years.

Similar to the state taking over for a failing school district, I really wish the NFL would step in and force them to either hire a football guy to be the President of Football Operations or sell the team.  Unfortunately, we all know that's never going to happen, so they'll never be good.

 
The Lions have demonstrated numerous times they have no understanding of the relative value of player positions, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised they lack the same understanding when it comes to front office positions.

I really believe that if you were to sit down with the Fords, not one of them would have any idea whatsoever as to why they have been bad for so long.  But for an ownership so incredibly incapable of identifying talent (GMs, coaches, and players), why would we expect them to be able to self-evaluate?  The real question is: do they even try to self evaluate why they've failed for 60+ years?
This is behind a paywall, but Amy Trask disagrees with you.

https://theathletic.com/2232526/2020/12/02/lions-coach-gm-amy-trask/?article_source=search&search_query=Trask

Some relevant quotes

Does this have to happen in a specific order? Do you need to have the GM first, then let the GM help you hire the coach, or can you go the opposite direction?

I am so glad you remembered this question, because … oh boy, oh boy. You just pitched that one soft and easy over the middle of the plate for me, because this is a peeve of mine. Hire the right people. And don’t worry about the order in which you hire them.

I recognize that my view on this is very different from the view of the majority. This has been my view for decades; it was my view throughout my career in the National Football League; it has remained my view since leaving the league. The order in which you hire people should not matter. Most people will say to you: “You’ve gotta hire a GM and let him bring in ‘his guy.'” This should not be about bringing in “your guy,” this should be about bringing in the right guy, and I am forever perplexed and dismayed when a GM comes into a situation and says, “Well, I’ve gotta have my guy.” You know what? Get the right guy, don’t worry about it being “your guy.”

Lemme tell you something: If the New England Patriots decided tomorrow to go out and hire a GM from outside the organization, that GM should walk in and say, “Bill Belichick is my guy.” Because to walk in and say, “I need my guy,” when you’ve got someone good in place, is just absurd. In this instance, of course, the Lions don’t have someone in place.

I do not believe the order matters. Look, at the end of the day, both the general manager and the head coach are employees of an organization. Their responsibility is to do their best to make that organization as best as it can be. And I know this: If I were the owner of a team and I found that the GM was mumbling about not having his guy and wanting to make a change, or a head coach was mumbling about not wanting the GM and wanting to make a change, I would call them both into my office and say, “If either of you ask me to choose between you two, the answer is I choose neither. Find a way to work together.”

We tell kids, little kids, all the time, “All right, you two, find a way to work it out. Find a way to work together.” Why do we expect less of adults than we do of children? And, that was my TED Talk.

I am sorry to just rant like that, but I am so passionate about it. Find the right people, the order in which you find them should not matter. Frankly, if I was interviewing someone who felt the order in which they were hired mattered, I would think very, very long and hard about whether or not I should continue to interview that person. You’re both employees.

 


And that is a good example she uses, where the organization has won 6 Super Bowls in the past 20 years, and lost 3 others.  All without having a GM.  Yes, very applicable in this situation.  When a team has probably the best coach in NFL history, any GM should want to work with him.  But the Lions don't have any coach.

I think the order DOES matter, because the coach should be working for the GM, not the other way around.  If the coach and the GM don't work well together, who are they going to get rid of?

She's right in that the most important thing is that they hire the right people.

 
I really get where she is coming from - I mean the New England and Detroit franchises are so similar.
She's a former Raider exec.  She's just using the example of a situation where bringing in a GM doesn't mean that you get rid of the coach, she's not saying to build things like the Patriots.

 
She's a former Raider exec.  She's just using the example of a situation where bringing in a GM doesn't mean that you get rid of the coach, she's not saying to build things like the Patriots.
I understand when you have an existing coach in place, you don't necessarily want to pull a Bob Quinn and get rid of the coach.  But when you're filling both spots, I think that most rational football people would agree with filling the GM spot first.  Which is why I expect them to hire the coach first.  Going against conventional wisdom has worked so well for this franchise.  Especially in their ability to identify talent.

 
Pack coming up next. Aaron Rodgers doesn't lose to Detroit. Bevell will need to score a lot of points.
WRONG
 

2010, 2014, 2018

 (the Pack also lost at Ford Field in 2013 & 2017 but Rodgers was injured....or too emotionally distraught & begged McCarthy not to make him play)

Stafford is 7-5 in his last 12 starts VS GB

Potentially four games left in Stafford’s Lions career

#### it, let’s win ‘em all.

 
I understand when you have an existing coach in place, you don't necessarily want to pull a Bob Quinn and get rid of the coach.  But when you're filling both spots, I think that most rational football people would agree with filling the GM spot first.  Which is why I expect them to hire the coach first.  Going against conventional wisdom has worked so well for this franchise.  Especially in their ability to identify talent.
When have they gone against conventional wisdom?

 
Heard yesterday that Sheila and Rod "I know nothing about football" Wood will conduct the search for a new HC and GM themselves.
Without a search firm or consultant. They will however utilize the available league resources.

”To fill the vacant CEO and COO positions, we’ll be posting on Craigslist and contacting the Department of Labor to identify the best possible candidates.”

Got me feeling all warm & fuzzy.

:thumbup:

 
Without a search firm or consultant. They will however utilize the available league resources.

”To fill the vacant CEO and COO positions, we’ll be posting on Craigslist and contacting the Department of Labor to identify the best possible candidates.”

Got me feeling all warm & fuzzy.

:thumbup:
Well Uncle Ernie got them Bob Quinn. Now he might get them Jerry Reese.

 
The draft.

Every draft.
OK, that's a GM problem.  I was more talking about with gm/coach searches.  The Quinn hiring was roundly praised.  MM was obviously a disaster but he wasn't the first, nor has he been the last, guy that was in the broadcast booth before being a GM.  The coaches he hired weren't panned, they were all top candidates.

This is not to give them a free pass on picking the wrong people, just that it isn't really like they went off the board either.

 
If Swift catches that ball week one we are 6-6 and tied for the last playoff spot. As it is, we’re a game out. All we have to do is win four straight against opponents currently inside the brackets. We’re 1-4 versus that cohort, how can you not like our chances?

GB (H) 
TEN (A)   
TB (H) 
MIN (H)

Three games at home. Granted, they’re 1-4 at home this year, but still gotta love our chances when we’re eating home cookin’.

We are so close to mediocrity and another road playoff loss. How can you not be excited for the near term future? Come on guys! Let’s sing Forward Down the Field! Who’s with me?

{looks around, realized everyone has left)

 
When have they gone against conventional wisdom?
The draft.

Every draft.
Most Lions thing ever was watching Martin Mayhew strut up to the podium less than 30 seconds after they went on the clock for the Tenth Pick. You think we need more time when there’s a generational talent waiting for us to pick him?

OBJ? Aaron Donald?

Nope.

Droptimus Prime, TE, Maryland 

 
I'm going to repeat what I have been saying for 30+ years.

I can fix Detroit's perennial #### show.  Give me an OLine.  Boom, fixed.

30 years.  I'd set the over under around 3 on pro bowl Oline players in that span... Lomas, Glover, and I think Lang made it once right?  Did that center make it once too a couple years back?  So 4 maybe?  Picking players blindly would lead to a better result.

Joe Schmoe and the TV Repair Guy can be the GM and coach at that point.

 
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I'm going to repeat what I have been saying for 30+ years.

I can fix Detroit's perennial #### show.  Give me an OLine.  Boom, fixed.

30 years.  I'd set the over under around 3 on pro bowl Oline players in that span... Lomas, Glover, and I think Lang made it once right?  Did that center make it once too a couple years back?  So 4 maybe?
They actually have a good O line now. Ragnow is a Pro Bowl level C who just dominated Akiem Hicks. Jonah Jackson is the 2nd highest graded rookie G of 2020. LT Taylor Decker has allowed 2 sacks all year and is in the upper quartile at his crucial position. Obviously they overpaid for a career backup in the most recent offseason but O line is one of the few areas Quinn got right.

Stafford got hit three times (3!) on Sunday and the last two TDs were straight up “my guys are going to overpower your guys and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.”   

We could ##### all day about what’s wrong with this team but I’m not sure Oline would be on the first five topics.

 
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Just imagine what the last 40 years would have been like if we excelled at finding running backs*, linebackers and edge rushers instead punters, kickers and long snappers. We’re seriously great in all the areas that aren’t part of building a winning football franchise.

*drafting a Heisman winner with a Top 3 pick isn’t “finding”

 
They actually have a good O line now. Ragnow is a Pro Bowl level C who just dominated Akiem Hicks. Jonah Jackson is the 2nd highest graded rookie G of 2020. LT Taylor Decker has allowed 2 sacks all year and is in the upper quartile at his crucial position. Obviously they overpaid for a career backup in the most recent offseason but O line is one of the few areas Quinn got right.

Stafford got hit three times (3!) on Sunday and the last two TDs were straight up “my guys are going to overpower your guys and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.”   

We could ##### all day about what’s wrong with this team but I’m not sure Oline would be on the first five topics.
A pro bowl level player who hasn't made a pro bowl?  Maybe he can become the 4th or 5th player in my lifetime to accomplish that this year.  Would be worth celebrating.

I am talking over the course of the last 30 years.  And the next 30.  OL would be the first topic every year, and you would see your list of whats wrong shrink drastically.

 
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Me and you and a dog named Boo might be more qualified to make that search.
Houron Texans have Tony Dungy, Jimmy Johnson, the GM of the Spurs and Andre Johnson in the room helping.  We have a filthy rich 69 year old former female HS tennis player and the Fords family wealth management CPA who admits he knows nothing about football.   Dam Wood fell into a nice gig for being and accountant...he is liking this football stuff.

 
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Would sure love to see Swift and Golladay together in this more aggressive offense these last few weeks. 

Part of me wonders if they hire a defensive minded HC(like Saleh) if they may keep Bevell as an OC.

 
Foosball God said:
OK, that's a GM problem.  I was more talking about with gm/coach searches.  The Quinn hiring was roundly praised.  MM was obviously a disaster but he wasn't the first, nor has he been the last, guy that was in the broadcast booth before being a GM.  The coaches he hired weren't panned, they were all top candidates.

This is not to give them a free pass on picking the wrong people, just that it isn't really like they went off the board either.
1) Hiring a complete non-football person to be the President, and allowing that person to participate in deciding which football person to hire as the coach and gm.

2) Hiring perhaps the worst GM in history, with no front office experience, out of the broadcast booth.

3) Following up #2, by hiring his Assistant GM to take over when Matt Millen was fired in the midst of the NFL's first 0-16 season.

4) With the exception of #2, and Bob Quinn, I believe the Lions have always hired from in-house.  How the heck would anyone who has worked only for the Lions have ANY IDEA what it takes to win in the NFL?

And I won't even begin to talk about the draft issues, but those are directly related to making poor choices for GM and not having a football person in charge.

I agreed with the premise of hiring Bob Quinn.  I thought it was a good idea to hire someone that had worked for one of the winning est teams in NFL history.  But like so many other teams, the Lions didn't realize that Patriot success doesn't translate, because so much of it has to do with Belichick and Brady.  I think they should look to hire a GM from the Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Seahawks, etc.

The Lions have been awful for the better part of 60+ years due to always being terrible at drafting and developing talent, which is a direct reflection of hiring bad GMs.  The best coach in the world will struggle to win if routinely forced to play with inferior talent.  Until the Lions fix that issue, they will never have any sustained success, which is why I believe the GM hire is much more important than the coach hire, and why they should look there first.

 
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Would sure love to see Swift and Golladay together in this more aggressive offense these last few weeks. 

Part of me wonders if they hire a defensive minded HC(like Saleh) if they may keep Bevell as an OC.
If the first week and the players' comments are any indication, that might not be bad, but I certainly wouldn't want to force it on whoever the coaching choice is.

 

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