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DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?


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I believe this is the first win the Lions have ever had in January.

I’m usually not one to get caught up in “celebrity” lives, but as a parent my ♥️ goes out to Matthew & Kelly. Her six hour brain surgery morphed into a twelve hour procedure, but she’s walking and

2 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Either Okudah or Simmons would be ok by me, hopefully later than 3.

They keep saying Simmons does not have a position.  Let him run wild at LB like Clay Matthews did when he was in his prime. Simmons could be a sack machine on the blitz and he is fast enough to cover.

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6 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

They keep saying Simmons does not have a position.  Let him run wild at LB like Clay Matthews did when he was in his prime. Simmons could be a sack machine on the blitz and he is fast enough to cover.

On a team with a bunch of holes, he could fill more than one.

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27 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't think he falls past Carolina. They might not have a starting caliber CB on their team and they have to deal with Evans, Godwin, Julio, Ridley, Michael Thomas, Brees, Brady and Ryan. Does Okudah make an immediate impact for the Lions? Maybe- every year there are CBs who play very well as rookies. The Lions need help there, it was the worst pass defense in the NFL last year. If they don't fix that, Quinn and Patricia won't be in Detroit for 2021. 

It was the worst pass defense in the NFL with perhaps the best CB in the NFL... food for thought.  And they did get Trufant.. not bad at all imo.

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10 minutes ago, matuski said:

It was the worst pass defense in the NFL with perhaps the best CB in the NFL... food for thought.  And they did get Trufant.. not bad at all imo.

Right but I could see Tru and Okudah on the outsides with Colman in the slot being better than Slay, Melvin and Coleman. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Lions IMO are in a position to accept almost any kind of trade back from Miami or LA. Even if all they can squeeze out is an extra 2nd, it's worth it IMO.

If a trade back, hopefully there will be a perception whether real or created of there being a bidding war to get a QB early.

So we can get more picks and then we can fill our many needs on defense and get an OL as well. Plus RB and WR depth. Not asking for much am I?

But as a Lion fan I'm ready to be disappointed again when Lions settle as was mentioned before for Derrick Brown. 

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OMG. Schefter reported 2 years ago the Lions were offering NE a 1st round pick for Gronk but the deal fell threw because Gronk threatened to retire. We knew there was a deal in place. We didn’t know the compensation. Quinn is a moron. 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

OMG. Schefter reported 2 years ago the Lions were offering NE a 1st round pick for Gronk but the deal fell threw because Gronk threatened to retire. We knew there was a deal in place. We didn’t know the compensation. Quinn is a moron. 

The long snapper, Teez Tabor and the Gronk deal …. three screwups. Crushes your hope for the future. I hate being pessimistic like this. 

But still think if they can get help on defense this draft together with the FA pickups can be competitive based on how the offense played with Stafford. Also have 4th round pick  Austin Bryant coming back who showed something in a very limited injured season.

 

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I really hope they trade down AT LEAST once.  If they can get the 26th pick from Miami, then that would be a win.  If no more deals are to be had, and they take Okudah or Simmons at 1.05, I'd be happy with that.

But if they were able to trade down one or two more times (maybe from 5 to 9 if Jacksonville wants Hebert) and then trade down again with one of the OT or WR needy teams, that would be a coup.  Maybe end up towards the middle of the round and pick up a guy like Kinlaw.  I had hoped CJ Henderson, but his stock seems to be rising too quickly - they would need to get him at 9, doubt he would last the second trade.

But if they could add a 1st, then at least two or three day 2 picks, and still end up with a guy like Henderson or Kinlaw, they could change this roster tremendously in one draft (but that also assumes they suddenly start drafting well).

With that being said, the stark realization that this is the Lions means that if I were to bet on it, I'd probably put money on the Lions drafting Okudah at 1.03, because it's the safe move.  Not a bad player, just could do SO MUCH MORE for the team by making some deals.

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On 4/18/2020 at 5:55 PM, ffweasel said:

So if miracle were to ever happen and the Lions made it to a Super Bowl in our lifetime, who here would spend the big money to attend? 

My 79-year-old father just survived 10 days in the hospital with COVID. Four years ago he had another near-death experience when he came down with encephalitis.

Dad was born and raised in Detroit, and even though I grew up in New Jersey, somehow he raised my brothers and me to be Lions fans (thanks a LOT, Dad!)

If the Lions made the Super Bowl, I would move heaven and earth to get him tickets and go with him. And if I couldn't, I would fly to wherever he was so we could watch together.

Honestly, it's a nice feeling to close my eyes and imagine it happening, especially after what we've been through the last couple weeks. Too bad it will never come to pass.

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18 hours ago, matuski said:

Honestly not sure.

As I get older my sports teams are less and less important.

I prob rather take my family to the carribbean or something.

I can definitely relate. A few years ago I was at a baseball game between two teams I didn't care about. The visiting team hit a bunch of home runs, and the fans dutifully threw the balls back on the field. My first thought was that if that happened to me at Comerica, I wouldn't feel any obligation to throw the ball back. My second thought was that I also wouldn't care enough about the ball to keep it. 😀

I was 14 when Bird stole the ball from Isiah in the Eastern Conference Finals. Short of the deaths of family members, I don't think I've ever been as inconsolable as I was at that moment. These days, I can't imagine feeling that invested in any of my teams (although if the Lions do make it to the Super Bowl and lose on a play like the Malcolm Butler INT, all bets are off). Like I said in my earlier post, any investment I would have would be filtered through the prism of my relationship with my dad. It would be awesome to celebrate a Super Bowl win with him.

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A lot has been said about not taking certain positions in the top 3. Positions like CB, NT, swiss army knives like Simmons. Without comment, here are the QBs picked in the top 3 the last 5 drafts.

Kyle Murray

Baker Mayfield

Sam Darnold

Mitch Trubisky

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Jamis Winston

Marcus Mariota

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

As a companion piece, here are the draft positions of the last 5 Super Bowl winning QBs. Once again without comment.

Patrick Mahomes - 10

Tom Brady - 199

Nick Foles - 88

Tom Brady - 199

Peyton Manning -1

and funny enough the guy taken at 1 was by the far the worst of the lot

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If they can trade back to 5 or 6, and land some extra dart throws, I won’t care if they take Okudah, Simmons or Brown. Just the fact that Quinn didn’t sit on his hands and use the “it takes two teams to trade” bs would make the draft a success to me. My expectations are that low. 
 

I could see them really screwing up and doing something like trading back to the Jags for 9 and Fournette. 
 

I’m killing my own excitement for the draft by dreaming up all the ways QuinTricia will mess this up.  Grateful for the alcohol I will consume to ease the pain of being a Lions fan. 
 

 

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Just now, The Captain said:

If they can trade back to 5 or 6, and land some extra dart throws, I won’t care if they take Okudah, Simmons or Brown. Just the fact that Quinn didn’t sit on his hands and use the “it takes two teams to trade” bs would make the draft a success to me. My expectations are that low. 
 

I could see them really screwing up and doing something like trading back to the Jags for 9 and Fournette. 
 

I’m killing my own excitement for the draft by dreaming up all the ways QuinTricia will mess this up.  Grateful for the alcohol I will consume to ease the pain of being a Lions fan. 
 

 

I agree, mainly on the alcohol part.

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A trade idea that I believe started on good morning football is now the latest rumor on local radio. Detroit gives up the 3 and receives the 18th, 26th and 39th picks from Miami. 
 

Some nice dart throws but I don’t trust Quinn to get the picks right. 

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11 minutes ago, The Captain said:

A trade idea that I believe started on good morning football is now the latest rumor on local radio. Detroit gives up the 3 and receives the 18th, 26th and 39th picks from Miami. 
 

Some nice dart throws but I don’t trust Quinn to get the picks right. 

So Miami keeps the 3 and the 5?  I think that's too much of a drop, Miami would have to include a future 1st.  If they were going to trade down that far, I wouldn't be surprised if BB convinced the Lions to trade down with the Patriots for the 23rd pick, a can of soup, and a promise to hire both Quinn and Patricia back after they get fired by the Lions.

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1 hour ago, The Captain said:

If they can trade back to 5 or 6, and land some extra dart throws, I won’t care if they take Okudah, Simmons or Brown. Just the fact that Quinn didn’t sit on his hands and use the “it takes two teams to trade” bs would make the draft a success to me. My expectations are that low. 
 

I could see them really screwing up and doing something like trading back to the Jags for 9 and Fournette. 
 

I’m killing my own excitement for the draft by dreaming up all the ways QuinTricia will mess this up.  Grateful for the alcohol I will consume to ease the pain of being a Lions fan. 
 

 

Nah man, this is the year!

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On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 6:21 PM, Ilov80s said:

OMG. Schefter reported 2 years ago the Lions were offering NE a 1st round pick for Gronk but the deal fell threw because Gronk threatened to retire. We knew there was a deal in place. We didn’t know the compensation. Quinn is a moron. 

This is exactly why I believe other teams will not pay a premium price to move up to 3.  They know Quinn will not draft a QB at 3.  The Giants took a QB early last year.  Miami and SD will get a QB staying where they are at.

Lions need a playmaker.    Right now I want Simmons.  Matty-Patty is a defensive genius right? 

Derrick Brown is good but can`t get to the passer.  We don`t need another Snacks at 3 overall.

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I’m not sure if you guys would have the cap space to swing this, but Gil Brandt is reporting that Chris Jones might be on the move. Would Jones + 1.32 for 1.03 interest you?

Lions end up with the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald and still get a first round selection. Chiefs get needed cap relief and a blue chip defensive prospect. I’d like that deal for both teams.

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27 minutes ago, caustic said:

I’m not sure if you guys would have the cap space to swing this, but Gil Brandt is reporting that Chris Jones might be on the move. Would Jones + 1.32 for 1.03 interest you?

Lions end up with the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald and still get a first round selection. Chiefs get needed cap relief and a blue chip defensive prospect. I’d like that deal for both teams.

It is a good thought but I would rather build with picks. If we were even remotely close to being a playoff team I would jump on it. I don’t trust Patricia to maximize a star defensive talent like that at this point, so it makes no sense to pay that kind of salary.

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1 hour ago, caustic said:

I’m not sure if you guys would have the cap space to swing this, but Gil Brandt is reporting that Chris Jones might be on the move. Would Jones + 1.32 for 1.03 interest you?

Lions end up with the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald and still get a first round selection. Chiefs get needed cap relief and a blue chip defensive prospect. I’d like that deal for both teams.

I think I do it and trust that Detroit would use him properly. We might take Derrick Brown at 3 and his ceiling probably isn't as high as what have already seen from Jones. 

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40 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

It is a good thought but I would rather build with picks. If we were even remotely close to being a playoff team I would jump on it. I don’t trust Patricia to maximize a star defensive talent like that at this point, so it makes no sense to pay that kind of salary.

If you're not remotely close to being a playoff team then why not take a QB?

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6 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

If you're not remotely close to being a playoff team then why not take a QB?

If it were up to me it is because I am not convinced that I like any of the quarterbacks available at the three spot. I also don’t think it is the biggest concern on the team (unless Stafford’s back is worse than we know).

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33 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Lions have the cap space, but it's a good point how far they are right now. But due to Martha's "ultimatum" , I could see a trade for picks happening.

Martha might have forgot about that by now.

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Rumors out there are Miami wants to be up to 3 for an OT. Also, floated that they want to do it without giving up 5. Would you support Detroit trading 1.3 for 1.18, 1.26 and 2.7

That could mean the Lions could have something that looks like this after the first 2 days:

WR Justin Jefferson LSU

OT Isaiah Wilson UGA

CB Kristian Foulton LSU

DE A.J. Espenesa IOWA

DT Justin Madubuike TEX AM

RB Zach Moss UTAH

That's a lot of holes filled and potential rookie contributors. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Rumors out there are Miami wants to be up to 3 for an OT. Also, floated that they want to do it without giving up 5. Would you support Detroit trading 1.3 for 1.18, 1.26 and 2.7

That could mean the Lions could have something that looks like this after the first 2 days:

WR Justin Jefferson LSU

OT Isaiah Wilson UGA

CB Kristian Foulton LSU

DE A.J. Espenesa IOWA

DT Justin Madubuike TEX AM

RB Zach Moss UTAH

That's a lot of holes filled and potential rookie contributors. 

 

 

I like it. Giving the morons more darts to throw would increase their chances of hitting on something.

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2 hours ago, Da Guru said:

This is exactly why I believe other teams will not pay a premium price to move up to 3.  They know Quinn will not draft a QB at 3.  The Giants took a QB early last year.  Miami and SD will get a QB staying where they are at.

Lions need a playmaker.    Right now I want Simmons.  Matty-Patty is a defensive genius right? 

Derrick Brown is good but can`t get to the passer.  We don`t need another Snacks at 3 overall.

If SD wants Tua they could trade up and Miami could see their attempt and create a bidding war.  

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2 hours ago, caustic said:

I’m not sure if you guys would have the cap space to swing this, but Gil Brandt is reporting that Chris Jones might be on the move. Would Jones + 1.32 for 1.03 interest you?

Lions end up with the best DT in the league not named Aaron Donald and still get a first round selection. Chiefs get needed cap relief and a blue chip defensive prospect. I’d like that deal for both teams.

I really don't like that move.  I would rather have one of the options at 3 (or ideally trade down a bit) on a rookie deal.  I don't know how much longer Jones is signed for, but with the Lions' history, I wouldn't expect that he'd re-sign with the Lions, so they would likely only have him for a couple of seasons, where they should have at least 5 with the rookie.

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And maybe the New England connection pays off in this instance.  Maybe the Lions and Dolphins already have a deal in place, but they don't want to announce it until the Lions are on the clock, so SD (or some wild card team) can't make a crazy offer to Washington.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tornacl said:

I really don't like that move.  I would rather have one of the options at 3 (or ideally trade down a bit) on a rookie deal.  I don't know how much longer Jones is signed for, but with the Lions' history, I wouldn't expect that he'd re-sign with the Lions, so they would likely only have him for a couple of seasons, where they should have at least 5 with the rookie.

Jones is tagged and needs a long-term deal. I imagine any trade would be contingent on Jones getting a new contract, similar to the Buckner/Colts trade we saw last month.

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1 minute ago, caustic said:

Jones is tagged and needs a long-term deal. I imagine any trade would be contingent on Jones getting a new contract, similar to the Armstead/Colts trade we saw last month.

The Lions really aren't in a position where they should be setting the market cost on anyone.  And to get him to go from the Super Bowl champs to the Lions, the only way he agrees to that is if he becomes the highest paid player at his position.  I really can't see the logic in that, which is why it is a distinct possibility.

 

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5 minutes ago, Tornacl said:

And maybe the New England connection pays off in this instance.  Maybe the Lions and Dolphins already have a deal in place, but they don't want to announce it until the Lions are on the clock, so SD (or some wild card team) can't make a crazy offer to Washington.

 

 

 I think Schefter said that teams don’t want to trade on the fly due to the technical issues so expect teams to already have trades in place contingent on certain players being available.

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10 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Rumors out there are Miami wants to be up to 3 for an OT. Also, floated that they want to do it without giving up 5. Would you support Detroit trading 1.3 for 1.18, 1.26 and 2.7

That could mean the Lions could have something that looks like this after the first 2 days:

WR Justin Jefferson LSU

OT Isaiah Wilson UGA

CB Kristian Foulton LSU

DE A.J. Espenesa IOWA

DT Justin Madubuike TEX AM

RB Zach Moss UTAH

That's a lot of holes filled and potential rookie contributors. 

 

 

To move from 18 to 3 should take more than that imo. 
Also a move from 32 to 3 should also take more. Not a knock on the player, but players in this situation come at a discount, not a premium. We see all sorts of undervalued trades these days- guys on expiring contracts that a team can’t resign because of friction or cap space that go for 4th rd picks. 

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17 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

To move from 18 to 3 should take more than that imo. 
Also a move from 32 to 3 should also take more. Not a knock on the player, but players in this situation come at a discount, not a premium. We see all sorts of undervalued trades these days- guys on expiring contracts that a team can’t resign because of friction or cap space that go for 4th rd picks. 

Should fetch more but what if it doesn’t and that’s the best offer?

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Should fetch more but what if it doesn’t and that’s the best offer?

I stay and pick or take another deal that keeps me in the top 10 should one exist. If not then I take the top player on my board. 

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22 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

I stay and pick or take another deal that keeps me in the top 10 should one exist. If not then I take the top player on my board. 

Hmmm... I don't know. Given how often players-even top 10 players- bust, I think I would rather have the 3 extra top 40 picks. 

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53 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Miami's 5 is still in play,  probably without Detroit's player being any different than what they would take at 3.

Value chart says their 39 would be the extra pick.

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/games/draft-pick-value.php#pickvalues

The value chart does not mean squat unless Quinn could make good choices at those spots, his track history proves otherwise.

I just read the pre-draft report on Tavai last year.  Projection 5th rd, special teams player, backup LB. Quinn take him with second rd pick.

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It's totally Lionesque that a global pandemic could ruin what should've been a great draft opportunity. The guys the Lions want (Okudah/Brown) aren't worth the 3rd pick but the market for Tua is depressed by his injury and the fact teams can't work him out. I'd go with the top OLman or Simmons so pretty sure Lions take Okudah or Brown. O f those 2 I'd prefer Okudah over a 2 down DLman.

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

The value chart does not mean squat unless Quinn could make good choices at those spots, his track history proves otherwise.

I just read the pre-draft report on Tavai last year.  Projection 5th rd, special teams player, backup LB. Quinn take him with second rd pick.

I was just making the point that the lions would lose nothing and still get a free pick. Who knows what they will do with it, they still got to make the trade.

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

The value chart does not mean squat unless Quinn could make good choices at those spots, his track history proves otherwise.

I just read the pre-draft report on Tavai last year.  Projection 5th rd, special teams player, backup LB. Quinn take him with second rd pick.

Because Matt Patricia has a very specific defense that doesn't match what most of the NFL does. So to his scheme, Tavai was very valuable. They said he was probably the only player in the draft who could fill the role. Now this might speak to how awful the system is. When draftniks rank the players, they have to rank them generically. For example their is DT from Auburn named Marlon Davidson who isn't a very hot name but is likely a lot higher on the Pats, Lions and Fins draft boards than anyone else. He is a perfect fit for their scheme and not so much with other teams. So his value changes depending where he lands. 

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3 hours ago, matuski said:

So take the top tackle and either keep him (my vote), or ransom him off for more picks.  If that is what the other teams want, do it backwards.

True and worst case scenario is you added a high end OT prospect.

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  • Da Guru changed the title to DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?

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