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DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?


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5 hours ago, Moonlight said:

Just hate those gray/blue uniforms. Dull and boring. I bet the players do not like wearing them.

NFL is too greedy 

Those all gray uniforms make a dull team look even worse.  They are the worst. Not a big fan of the all blue either but they are 100% better than the all gray.

 

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Not successfully you couldn’t 

I believe this is the first win the Lions have ever had in January.

I’m usually not one to get caught up in “celebrity” lives, but as a parent my ♥️ goes out to Matthew & Kelly. Her six hour brain surgery morphed into a twelve hour procedure, but she’s walking and

So as a long-suffering Lions fan is there not an option where we keep Stafford, extend Golladay and just fix the :X defense?  I don't get tearing it to the ground and rebuilding for the next few years around whatever GM we get in here.  The defense literally cannot get any worse but we have pieces on the offense to put points up.  Stafford has been the only constant good thing about this team for years.  He's probably in a spot financially where he can play out his contract but I think we should be open to extending him.  Letting our best player walk in the prime of his career seems pretty silly.

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4 hours ago, tangfoot said:

Not particularly, no.  He has rougnly the same credentials as Matt Millen did when they brought him on board.  Spielman was a fiesty player who was fun to watch, and he is a decent game analyst.  Does he have any experience in actual football operations?

Difference in being a consultant as opposed to GM. I will say I was very opposed to the Millen hiring for the reasons you gave. I was definitely in the minority at the time as many were ecstatic about the Millen hire because he was a "football guy".

Now the thing about the Spielman hiring as a consultant is "What is his job description?" He was hired full time and gave up his other job as analyst so is being well paid and will likely have a say in GM/Coach hiring and other operations. Is Sheila viewing Spielman as a future GM candidate who is being groomed for the job?  Spielman's brother Rick has been Vikings GM for @ 9 years.

Lions couldn't bring Spielman in as GM or perhaps even assistant GM because of the fan outcry that would occur with the fans remembering the Millen disaster. The new GM isn't going to want Spielman acting independently and having Sheila's ear and because of Spielman's brother may be viewed as  a potential threat. To avert a civil war and power struggle there will need to be clear boundaries set regarding Spielman. It could work very well as Spielman has professed to being a team first guy (something Millen wasn't) but the GM will need a healthy ego.

Spielman was a passionate Lions player and that's something the team needs. I hope that this works out.

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1 minute ago, Moonlight said:

Lions couldn't bring Spielman in as GM or perhaps even assistant GM because of the fan outcry that would occur with the fans remembering the Millen disaster. The new GM isn't going to want Spielman acting independently and having Sheila's ear and because of Spielman's brother may be viewed as  a potential threat. To avert a civil war and power struggle there will need to be clear boundaries set regarding Spielman. It could work very well as Spielman has professed to being a team first guy (something Millen wasn't) but the GM will need a healthy ego.

If this is true, then I absolutely HATE the move.  There's nothing worse than a GM with no authority and his replacement looking over his shoulder.  It will end poorly for everyone, and the franchise will be SOL for years to come.

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6 hours ago, formerfourdigit said:

So as a long-suffering Lions fan is there not an option where we keep Stafford, extend Golladay and just fix the :X defense?  I don't get tearing it to the ground and rebuilding for the next few years around whatever GM we get in here.  The defense literally cannot get any worse but we have pieces on the offense to put points up.  Stafford has been the only constant good thing about this team for years.  He's probably in a spot financially where he can play out his contract but I think we should be open to extending him.  Letting our best player walk in the prime of his career seems pretty silly.

The Lions' expected salary cap number in 2021 will be $2,171,211 per spotrac, and they have a number of players on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that they will not be able to re-sign -- do you want their top-3 WR's to leave because prior GM's were idiots (and that's just WR's on the offensive side of the ball)?

Just look at the numbers ($ not stats) and who is about to leave (or will next year) and that tells the whole story.

IF the organization had been skilled in drafting talent, they may have been able to whether this storm of GM-malpractice.

IF....

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14 hours ago, Moonlight said:

OK I'm insane but still going to give Sheila a chance till she shows otherwise. 

Do you like Speilman being hired full time as consultant? I do, he has a passion for the game and his brother has had some success as a GM for Vikes.

But it could confuse accountability and lines of authority if his boundaries are cloudy.

Personally, I REALLY like the Spielman move.  I would not have wanted him as the GM, because I don't think he has the requisite experience.  But in this position, I think he can help the owner/president making better decisions from a football standpoint, instead of just from a bottom-line standpoint.  His passion and fire as a player shows me that he is a true competitor, and I don't think that ever changes.  I don't think he will be able to stand by if they continue to put a crap product on the field.  I think that he will want to win, and 60+ years of ownership by the Fords haven't shown that they care about that too much.

I think they've never had a "football guy" helping them make good football decisions when it comes to hiring GMs and coaches, and they've made too many bad hires.

I also think that Spielman's brother has done a good job as GM in Minnesota, and having those types of relationships will only help.

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21 hours ago, higgins said:

The Lions' expected salary cap number in 2021 will be $2,171,211 per spotrac, and they have a number of players on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that they will not be able to re-sign -- do you want their top-3 WR's to leave because prior GM's were idiots (and that's just WR's on the offensive side of the ball)?

Just look at the numbers ($ not stats) and who is about to leave (or will next year) and that tells the whole story.

IF the organization had been skilled in drafting talent, they may have been able to whether this storm of GM-malpractice.

IF....

Looks like $9.36mm if I am reading right?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/cap/2021/ Not great for sure.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/detroit-lions/

We can get rid of all these guys at those prices other than Golladay and Okwara who it looks like we have an option on but will probably want to be paid.   Marvin contract worked out, not sure what he would want to stay but I think we'll be okay with KG/Hock/???/Cephus/Allison?

Pretty depressing all the contracts we handed out for defenders the last couple years.

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Newest GM rumors:

https://www.cbssports.com

Lions attempting to poach two-time Super Bowl champion Seahawks GM John Schneider, per report

Jan 3, 2021 at 9:02 am ET

1 min read

The Detroit Lions are attempting to hire Seattle Seahawks general manager John Schneider to the same role, according to NFL Media's Ian Rapoport. Schneider has been with the Seahawks for 11 seasons and constructed the Super Bowl XLVIII roster.

The Wisconsin native has been known for his middle to late round draft finds like Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Tyler Lockett and K.J. Wright. The presence of Wilson has enabled the franchise to stay afloat while deconstructing that Super Bowl roster and re-building. 

Schneider is known for trading out of the first round and not being afraid to make big trades. His recent selections in the first round have not been as well-liked in the scouting community. Seattle acquired tight end Jimmy Graham from the Saints in exchange for center Max Unger and a first-round pick in 2015. Last year, the team acquired safety/linebacker Jamal Adams and a fourth-round pick from the Jets in exchange for safety Bradley McDougald, first and third-round picks in the 2021 NFL Draft and a first round pick in the 2022 NFL Draft. 

Prior to his time in Seattle, Schneider had served in executive roles with Washington, Green Bay and Kansas City, including being a part of the Packers' Super Bowl XXXI victory. 

According to CBS Sports NFL insider Jason La Canfora, the Lions also covet Steelers' Kevin Colbert.

NFL.com also linked Steelers VP of football administration Omar Khan, Colts assistant GM Ed Dodds, Saints VP/assistant GM of pro personnel Terry Fontenot, Seahawks VP of football operations Scott Fitterer, Rams college scouting director Brad Holmes, Vikings assistant GM George Paton, Cowboys VP of player personnel Will McClay, and Patriots front office consultant Eliot Wolf to the vacancy.

 

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26 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Be just like the Lions to screw it up and win today.

Well when the QB has more pull than the temps at GM & HC, that's what happens. There is no reason for Stafford to be playing today.

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6 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Well when the QB has more pull than the temps at GM & HC, that's what happens. There is no reason for Stafford to be playing today.

If you are the team leader you play.

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The roughing the passer call on 4th and goal from the half yard line was one of the worst calls I have seen in that type of situation.  To be honest I did not want the Lions to win that game but as Joe Biden would say "Come on man!"  even Dean Blandino and Cousins admitted it was a bad call.

As my wife would say Stanford played pretty good and it good enough, but when you can`t get a stop it is tough to win in this league. 

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54 minutes ago, Rubiobot said:

Does anyone know the cap hit if the Lions trade or cut Stafford?

Per the Sporting News:

The Lions technically have an out in Stafford's contract after the 2020 season, but it'd be costly. If the Lions released Stafford following the season, it'd leave them with $24.85 million in dead cap. That'd be the most dead cap money taken on by a team in NFL history. 

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Per the Sporting News:

The Lions technically have an out in Stafford's contract after the 2020 season, but it'd be costly. If the Lions released Stafford following the season, it'd leave them with $24.85 million in dead cap. That'd be the most dead cap money taken on by a team in NFL history. 

No possible way they should release him. 

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12 minutes ago, Moonlight said:

No possible way they should release him. 

And they won't. Between the financial reasons (always #1 with Lions ownership) and the fact that the owners are Matt's #1 fan, odds are huge on Stafford being the QB the first game of the 2021 season.

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

And they won't. Between the financial reasons (always #1 with Lions ownership) and the fact that the owners are Matt's #1 fan, odds are huge on Stafford being the QB the first game of the 2021 season.

I'll drink to that. Need to build around him and get some defensive talent.  A good GM can make a difference quickly.

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5 hours ago, Moonlight said:

I'll drink to that. Need to build around him and get some defensive talent.  A good GM can make a difference quickly.

And that is the biggest thing. Not where you draft but who is doing the drafting.

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

And that is the biggest thing. Not where you draft but who is doing the drafting.

Texans hired Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio as their general manager.  Texans unable to resist the temptation of the Patriots way. (It doesn't work guys it was Brady) Lions been there and done that.

This increases the chances that Lions can get GM of their choice.

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15 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:

And they won't. Between the financial reasons (always #1 with Lions ownership) and the fact that the owners are Matt's #1 fan, odds are huge on Stafford being the QB the first game of the 2021 season.

What about he's a good quarterback?

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Given the Lions history I would venture to say Stafford aint going nowhere. 

Although I heard when Dan Orlovsky tweets about how Stafford would be better off going to another team now is that is Stafford telling him that as they are close friends.  Stafford would never publicly come out and say it but he might want a change of scenery himself.

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Stafford most likely not going anywhere.  They'd have to get a real premium for them to move him and I don't think that happens.  They absolutely need to figure out a succession plan for him though.  They need a lot of pieces but if one of Fields, Lance, or Wilson are there at #7 they better be taking a hard look.  It's not like they are contending and need a final piece.

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5 hours ago, Foosball God said:

Stafford most likely not going anywhere.  They'd have to get a real premium for them to move him and I don't think that happens.  They absolutely need to figure out a succession plan for him though.  They need a lot of pieces but if one of Fields, Lance, or Wilson are there at #7 they better be taking a hard look.  It's not like they are contending and need a final piece.

What do you think that premium is?  At what point do you think the package is too much to pass up (but at the same time realistic that some team might offer it)?

I don't have the answer for what that point is, but UNLIKE LAST OFFSEASON, they should make it clear that they will consider all offers. Who knows what a team like the Saints or Colts might offer. They should be willing to listen, and if a good enough offer comes in, they should trade him.  He's certainly not the player they should look to trade at all costs, but if a good offer comes in, they shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

 

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3 minutes ago, Tornacl said:

What do you think that premium is?  At what point do you think the package is too much to pass up (but at the same time realistic that some team might offer it)?

I don't have the answer for what that point is, but UNLIKE LAST OFFSEASON, they should make it clear that they will consider all offers. Who knows what a team like the Saints or Colts might offer. They should be willing to listen, and if a good enough offer comes in, they should trade him.  He's certainly not the player they should look to trade at all costs, but if a good offer comes in, they shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

 

Saints and Colts have low 1st round picks so if it was going to them I'd want multiple 1st rounders.  At the very minimum 1st and 2nd, plus maybe a mid round.  We're talking the most important position in football.

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1 hour ago, Foosball God said:

Saints and Colts have low 1st round picks so if it was going to them I'd want multiple 1st rounders.  At the very minimum 1st and 2nd, plus maybe a mid round.  We're talking the most important position in football.

Colts gave a first for Buckner. I would venture Stafford would be more impactful.

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17 hours ago, Moonlight said:

Texans hired Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio as their general manager.  Texans unable to resist the temptation of the Patriots way. (It doesn't work guys it was Brady) Lions been there and done that.

This increases the chances that Lions can get GM of their choice.

So true. The Patriots way only works if you have Brady. That entire franchise turned back into a pumpkin the minute he left. 

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I think Stafford would be better off on another team, but the Lions would not. He's not the problem and never has been. If you watch and know NFL football, you know a guy like Stafford is still a top QB with a few good years left. There are guys like Mike Glennon and Andy Dalton that still start in this league. Sure if you have a shot at a Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, or Trevor Lawrence top QB in the draft, then you take it. But absent that, Stafford is almost certainly the best the Lions can hope for at this point. 

What needs to happen is for another owner to take over the team and bring in a competent GM and coaching staff. It's really that simple. This franchise had Stafford and Megatron and still couldn't find a way to even win the division. Peyton Manning wouldn't have taken any of those Lions teams to the playoffs. I don't really know what else to say.  

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Arthur Smith the Titans OC would still be my choice for HC. I believe they have requested an interview but it’s not a guarantee that he will take it. That offence has just continued to get better and better since Smith has come in 

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Every recent mock draft I see has the Lions drafting either a QB or WR.  If they decide to move on from Stafford, I understand taking a QB.  But I really hope that QB is the only offensive position in play there.  They need defensive playmakers in the worst way.

When your defense sets records for the worst defense in team history, maybe you should consider addressing that side of the ball?  And when you consider that the Lions have never been known as a defense-first franchise and were the first team to have an 0-16 season, setting that kind of record is really saying something.

Here's a suggestion: pick someone who can put pressure on the QB.  Or pick a playmaker at linebacker who can own the middle of the field.

I know the entire WR room is set to leave, but you are far more likely to find a quality WR on day 2 or 3 than you are to find someone who can rush the passer. Plus there are always decent WRs available in free agency.

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On 1/6/2021 at 8:35 PM, TwinTurbo said:

So true. The Patriots way only works if you have Brady. That entire franchise turned back into a pumpkin the minute he left. 

They did fine with Matt Cassel at the helm

they hit cap hell and have a severe deficit of skill players...

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2 hours ago, Sam Quentin said:

They did fine with Matt Cassel at the helm

they hit cap hell and have a severe deficit of skill players...

That was one season and they didn’t make the playoffs. In Brady’s 19 years as a starting QB, he’s only had 1 season where he missed the playoffs and only 1 season where he has a worse record than that Cassel team had. I think Brady is absolutely as crucial as the coach was in shaping that Pats dynasty.

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18 hours ago, Tornacl said:

Every recent mock draft I see has the Lions drafting either a QB or WR.  If they decide to move on from Stafford, I understand taking a QB.  But I really hope that QB is the only offensive position in play there.  They need defensive playmakers in the worst way.

When your defense sets records for the worst defense in team history, maybe you should consider addressing that side of the ball?  And when you consider that the Lions have never been known as a defense-first franchise and were the first team to have an 0-16 season, setting that kind of record is really saying something.

Here's a suggestion: pick someone who can put pressure on the QB.  Or pick a playmaker at linebacker who can own the middle of the field.

I know the entire WR room is set to leave, but you are far more likely to find a quality WR on day 2 or 3 than you are to find someone who can rush the passer. Plus there are always decent WRs available in free agency.

The problem here is

1. There simply aren’t any premier pass rushers in this draft. If they do take a pass rusher at 7 it will be a bit of a reach. The top guy is Rousseau from Miami but a lot of people also barely see him as a 1st founder. He’s seen as really raw. I like him but it’s a riskier pick no doubt.
 

2. Why even keep Stafford if you are going to throw him out there with Quintez Cepheus, a budget FA and two rookies who might not be NFL ready? Just blow it up if that’s the plan.

3. The LB from PSU is a possibility at 7 but LBs who aren’t pass rush specialists are like taking a TE in the top 10. It’s just not a good value. 

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

The problem here is

3. The LB from PSU is a possibility at 7 but LBs who aren’t pass rush specialists are like taking a TE in the top 10. It’s just not a good value. 

Unfortunately that seems like a very “Lion-like” maneuver. If they keep Stafford, they should consider a top WR at 7 if they fall to them. If they get rid of Stafford and fall in love with a QB at 7 then take him, otherwise trade down and garner picks (something they should have done last year).

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

The problem here is

1. There simply aren’t any premier pass rushers in this draft. If they do take a pass rusher at 7 it will be a bit of a reach. The top guy is Rousseau from Miami but a lot of people also barely see him as a 1st founder. He’s seen as really raw. I like him but it’s a riskier pick no doubt.
 

2. Why even keep Stafford if you are going to throw him out there with Quintez Cepheus, a budget FA and two rookies who might not be NFL ready? Just blow it up if that’s the plan.

3. The LB from PSU is a possibility at 7 but LBs who aren’t pass rush specialists are like taking a TE in the top 10. It’s just not a good value. 

 

Trading down should definitely be in play.  I would like to see them take Parsons.  It has been an eternity since they had a difference maker at LB.  Although Tulloch was good, I think the last exceptional LB they had just got hired to help advise the owner. 

That defense needs a sideline-to-sideline warrior that finds his way into every play. I've seen Parsons compared to Luke Kuechly, and I would ABSOLUTELY use a top 10 pick on someone like that.  The Lions' defense has no heart, no identity. I think this would be a good start to changing their identity.

ETA: And I really think they should trade Stafford if they get good value.  This team is NOWHERE close to being a contender, and anyone that thinks a few minor tweaks will make them good is kidding themselves.

For the past 60+ years, the Lions have been inept at identifying and developing talent.  Hopefully, the GM they hire will excel in that area, but it will take some time to re-stock the barren cupboards. By the time they are ready to compete, Stafford will be done.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tornacl said:

 

Trading down should definitely be in play.  I would like to see them take Parsons.  It has been an eternity since they had a difference maker at LB.  Although Tulloch was good, I think the last exceptional LB they had just got hired to help advise the owner. 

That defense needs a sideline-to-sideline warrior that finds his way into every play. I've seen Parsons compared to Luke Kuechly, and I would ABSOLUTELY use a top 10 pick on someone like that.  The Lions' defense has no heart, no identity. I think this would be a good start to changing their identity.

ETA: And I really think they should trade Stafford if they get good value.  This team is NOWHERE close to being a contender, and anyone that thinks a few minor tweaks will make them good is kidding themselves.

For the past 60+ years, the Lions have been inept at identifying and developing talent.  Hopefully, the GM they hire will excel in that area, but it will take some time to re-stock the barren cupboards. By the time they are ready to compete, Stafford will be done.

 

 

I totally agree trading down is almost always a good idea. Getting Luke Kuechly would be great but that’s cherry picking the best ILB of the last decade. The same argument could be made for almost any position if you cherry pick the best of the best. What a difference Julio Jones or Travis Kelce or Aaron Donald would make to the team as well. In the end, stand up LB isn’t a premier position right now in the NFL. We already went down that road with TE and it doesn’t make sense to do it again. Just look at LB salaries vs WR salaries to get a sense for positional value. 

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I wouldn't be unhappy with Lance, Smith, or Parsons.  I'd probably be fine with Chase too.  Trading back for more picks would be great but not outside the top 15 as we just need playmakers.

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5 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

With Stafford he would actually have a more mobile QB.

I don’t really understand their process right now. They’re casting a wide net (I guess) and Covid protocols come into play. Like they can’t interview anyone that’s currently in a teams bubble but I guess the Rams front office guy is working out of ATL so he was a go for this week. Two more guys they want to interview are still in the playoffs and with their teams so it seems likely they’re not gonna finish for a few weeks.

On the HC side, seems to be going slow, no? What’s the word locally. Seems likely we are going to lose Robert Saleh to the Jets. But maybe they’d rather take their time so they can interview guys still in the playoffs (Daboll, Bieneny, Glenn and Staley.) IDK where we’re at though.

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14 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

I don’t really understand their process right now. They’re casting a wide net (I guess) and Covid protocols come into play. Like they can’t interview anyone that’s currently in a teams bubble but I guess the Rams front office guy is working out of ATL so he was a go for this week. Two more guys they want to interview are still in the playoffs and with their teams so it seems likely they’re not gonna finish for a few weeks.

On the HC side, seems to be going slow, no? What’s the word locally. Seems likely we are going to lose Robert Saleh to the Jets. But maybe they’d rather take their time so they can interview guys still in the playoffs (Daboll, Bieneny, Glenn and Staley.) IDK where we’re at though.

I think the biggest problem isn't who they want, but why would those better choices want them. Unless it's just about making money since there is no salary cap for management. If they miss out on someone it's probably just because Detroit wasn't their first choice?

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

I think the biggest problem isn't who they want, but why would those better choices want them. Unless it's just about making money since there is no salary cap for management. If they miss out on someone it's probably just because Detroit wasn't their first choice?

Probably but like them being thorough and interviewing every quality candidate out there. Last time it seems like they hired the first guy that they interviewed.

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36 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Probably but like them being thorough and interviewing every quality candidate out there. Last time it seems like they hired the first guy that they interviewed.

not quite but my recollection is the first presser was one or two days after the Super Bowl - they were def locked in on one cadidate

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Probably but like them being thorough and interviewing every quality candidate out there. Last time it seems like they hired the first guy that they interviewed.

More like they knew who they were going to hire before doing any interviews.

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6 minutes ago, Raging weasel said:

More like they knew who they were going to hire before doing any interviews.

In 2014 it seems like nobody really wanted the job. I’m old, did we lose out to Malarkey or Wisenhunt? Whoever it was the Titans fired him inside of two years and he was awful. But the Baltimore OC came in having charted every one of Stafford's 663* pass attempts and that blew Mayhew’s mind.

 

*made that # up just now 

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5 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

In 2014 it seems like nobody really wanted the job. I’m old, did we lose out to Malarkey or Wisenhunt? Whoever it was the Titans fired him inside of two years and he was awful. But the Baltimore OC came in having charted every one of Stagford's 663* pass attempts and that blew Mayhew’s mind.

 

*made that # up just now 

It was Whisenhunt who they wanted in 2014. He went to Tenn and was fired after going 3-20.

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Yet another rumor, this one I actually like more. Rams with no #1 draft pick the last 4 years already won a playoff game this year, something the Lions have not done in the last 28 years.

"Los Angeles Rams director of college scouting Brad Holmes is now the "favorite" to become the general manager of the Detroit Lions, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Minnesota Vikings assistant general manager George Paton signed a reported six-year deal with the Denver Broncos on Wednesday to become their new GM, taking him out of the running for the Lions job.

Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reported that Holmes was doing a second interview with the Lions on Wednesday and that Paton "had been a strong candidate in Detroit"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2926786-lions-rumors-brad-holmes-favored-to-become-new-gm-after-broncos-paton-hire

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  • Da Guru changed the title to DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?

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