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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Tornacl
Footballguy
According to this, there is no guaranteed money for Goff after this season, so the Lions can move on without taking a hit.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lions-trade-matthew-stafford-to-the-rams-for-two-first-round-picks-a-third-round-pick-and-jared-goff/
It is still early in the process, but this certainly feels like a totally different front office approach. Hope it leads to success, great start so far!
nittanylion
Footballguy
The media went way overboard regarding the 'rah-rah-kneecaps', very small portion of the Dan Campbell PC. Sensationalism at it's finest. I finally got around to listening to the whole thing, and I think he had plenty of good things to say, and if I was a Lions fan, I'd feel pretty good about the hire. Now the Stafford deal. Lions fans have been long-suffering, as a WFTskins fan, I sympathize. I'd have to say, for the time being, this ought to be a pretty upbeat Thread. Wishing you guys all the best!
Mt. Man
Footballguy
Obviously mixed feelings about Goff. Makes me curious if QB is still the play for the 7th pick, or they see if he's salvageable as a starter. A 3rd's okay for this year, since the Lions are short on picks. But two future firsts for a team that needs to build from the ground up? Yeah, definitely a hefty payout. Now to see if the Lions have a GM who can do something with the picks.
So, a bit meh about the trade seeming to fit a) Stafford's needs (recent home in LA) and b) having a GM formally from the Rams do this, a la Quinntricia picking up castoff Patroits. But can't be upset about the potential here. Even if the team's barely watchable for a time.
So, a bit meh about the trade seeming to fit a) Stafford's needs (recent home in LA) and b) having a GM formally from the Rams do this, a la Quinntricia picking up castoff Patroits. But can't be upset about the potential here. Even if the team's barely watchable for a time.
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Congrats guys. Great deal for the Lions. As a Skins fan I was hoping they would trade for Stafford, but not at those prices. Most I wanted to give up was a 1st and a 3rd. I think you fleeced the Rams. With as tough as the NFC West is going to be, those picks could be better than expected if some injuries happen etc.
I see some people in the Stafford thread arguing that it’s not a great deal for the Lions since they had to take on Goff’s contract. I don’t get this take at all as the Lions have the cap space, aren’t winning this year, and need someone to play the position in a season that will probably end up with a top 5 pick anyway. And for that they get a future 1st that can be used as ammo to trade up for a QB in future years (if they don’t take one at 7 this year).
I see some people in the Stafford thread arguing that it’s not a great deal for the Lions since they had to take on Goff’s contract. I don’t get this take at all as the Lions have the cap space, aren’t winning this year, and need someone to play the position in a season that will probably end up with a top 5 pick anyway. And for that they get a future 1st that can be used as ammo to trade up for a QB in future years (if they don’t take one at 7 this year).
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Compare that to what Bill Belichick did to the Lions, dumping his 2 worst employees in Quinn & Patricia on them.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I won't be surprised if teams make offers for Goff. It seems like his price tag is relatively cheap due to the contract. Detroit still in position to take a rookie QB in the draft. For entertainment value, I like to see him dealt to San Francisco.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Right, 2021 is tanking in disguise, which a roster as bad as this one needs to do. This move was about getting on a corrective path in 22 then hopefully start competing in 23.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
All indications are the Rams had to give Detroit a 1st just to take Goff so that makes me think no team is giving the Lions anything for Goff. This was an NBA style trade where the Rams had to pay for the Lions to take on a bad asset.
I'm really mixed on this. If they truly had multiple offers involving 1st round picks, I suspect this deal will not end up being the best offer.
Taking on Goff is a real headache, in my opinion. First, I am of the opinion Goff is just terrible. He comes across as aloof, not terribly bright for a QB, and seemingly needed McVay to really guide him to his average results. I just don't see any scenario where there is a career revival here, which I don't think many are expecting anyways. Second, and more important though, is that taking him on blows up their cap this year. I get that they are looking at a multi year rebuild, but as far as cap, they are in a position to trim a lot of dead weight over the next 2 years. With the cap being depressed this year, there will be some players stuck taking lesser contracts I would expect. Detroit could have been in a position to potentially take advantage of that. You don't rebuild via free agency, but you can help it along through that avenue. That has been diminished with the Goff contract on the books for this year and to a lesser extent, next as well.
I'm happy for Satfford, it sounds like he wanted LA, and he got LA. I'll be rooting for him there. I just have this feeling that this wasn't the best deal Detroit could have made. I guess that feeling just comes with being a Lions fan.
Taking on Goff is a real headache, in my opinion. First, I am of the opinion Goff is just terrible. He comes across as aloof, not terribly bright for a QB, and seemingly needed McVay to really guide him to his average results. I just don't see any scenario where there is a career revival here, which I don't think many are expecting anyways. Second, and more important though, is that taking him on blows up their cap this year. I get that they are looking at a multi year rebuild, but as far as cap, they are in a position to trim a lot of dead weight over the next 2 years. With the cap being depressed this year, there will be some players stuck taking lesser contracts I would expect. Detroit could have been in a position to potentially take advantage of that. You don't rebuild via free agency, but you can help it along through that avenue. That has been diminished with the Goff contract on the books for this year and to a lesser extent, next as well.
I'm happy for Satfford, it sounds like he wanted LA, and he got LA. I'll be rooting for him there. I just have this feeling that this wasn't the best deal Detroit could have made. I guess that feeling just comes with being a Lions fan.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Assuming the Lions have the cap space (and willing to spend the cash), one option would be to convert salary to roster bonus, pay Goff, eat the cap hit,, then deal a more palatable contract
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Same sorry-### Rams.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The Lions are looking at this from a 2022+ lens. The way the former group structured contracts they had little flexibility this season, but they may be able to open up a brinks truck of funding starting next season. Gotta endure some pain first though.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I actually really like that the 1st round picks are in 2022 and 2023 for a few reasons:
1. This draft season will be unlike any other. No combine. Star players who didn't play or played in limited games. I know the draft is always a bit of a crap shoot but it could be even moreso this year.
2. The Lions are going to be really bad this year and likely really bad in 2022 as well. Why start the clock on the rookie deals when the team is bad and burn those years off? It's better to delay that a bit.
3. The Rams play in a loaded division. By this season Stafford will be 33, Robert Woods will be 29, AD will be 30, Whitworth is 39, Kupp will be 28. The team is kind of old and don't have the resources to get younger. It would not surprise me at all if the team is not nearly as good in 2021 and especially 22 as people think. I think the odds are better then people are giving credit for that the 2023 1st rounder is a top 12 pick.
1. This draft season will be unlike any other. No combine. Star players who didn't play or played in limited games. I know the draft is always a bit of a crap shoot but it could be even moreso this year.
2. The Lions are going to be really bad this year and likely really bad in 2022 as well. Why start the clock on the rookie deals when the team is bad and burn those years off? It's better to delay that a bit.
3. The Rams play in a loaded division. By this season Stafford will be 33, Robert Woods will be 29, AD will be 30, Whitworth is 39, Kupp will be 28. The team is kind of old and don't have the resources to get younger. It would not surprise me at all if the team is not nearly as good in 2021 and especially 22 as people think. I think the odds are better then people are giving credit for that the 2023 1st rounder is a top 12 pick.
Foosball God
Foos
They have the ability to play it by ear. Unless they "really" love one of these guys then the smart move is to wait to see who falls, if no one does then so be it. They don't have an emergency need for a QB now.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I distinctly recall during the pre-draft process where Goff seemed 'off' and I couldn't put my finger on it but then saw this:
Jared Goff Diet: How His Enzyme Deficiency Was Discovered
Last year he had a thumb injury and his relationship with Sean McVay had gotten bad.
Relationship between Rams' Jared Goff, Sean McVay 'not great'?
Foosball God
Foos
Capella isn't a Lions fan. He's a Bucs guy.
And you're being myopic if you don't see that Stafford has been and still is the better QB. But, the nice thing is, we should have a chance to see who's right next season. If Stafford puts up the same or worse numbers than Goff then you'll have your answer.
Agreed. Its not like they're not going to be in position to draft a top qb in the 2022 draft.
It's a mess, no doubt. Just looking right now, they could cut Trufant (6.2m), Coleman (4.9m), Williams (4.7m), Shelton (4.0m), Jones (2.6m), & James (2.1m) opening up 24.5m. Some of those will happen regardless, as the Goff contract puts them an estimated 11 mil over the cap. I just see with no Goff, those cuts leave you ~40.5m under. With Goff, those cuts get you ~13.5 under. I would rather have had 40m in cap space and have signed a Tyrod Taylor than have Goff.
2022 gives them the outs on Collins (10m) and Flowers (12m), which will really open things up.
They are a few years away, but I just have this suspicion that there are going to be some free agents bargains this year due to the depressed cap and no teams really having planned for it.
I like this too... this year the draft involves more gamble than it ordinarily does. Nice to have those picks in years where things will be closer to normal for scouting purposes.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Because Stafford has never had good coaches or a decent team around him. His coaches in his career have been Jim Schwartz, Jim Caldwell, and Matt Patricia, and hes never had a legit running game.
in 166 career games, hes had a RB rush for 100+ yards 11 times. 11 times in 166 games, and I believe hes 8-3 in those games. The fact that he's 16th all time in both passing yards and TDs speaks volumes as to how good he's been on those Detroit teams.
Goff will be a backup after the 2021 season, hes just not a good QB. Im a 49er fan and have seen plenty of Goff to know hes average at best.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
I get what you're saying, but free agents don't make much sense on rebuilding teams. By the time the team starts to turn the corner those acquisitions are either/both nearing the end of their term and/or heading down the age bell curve. Additionally, I think it's fair to expect some of these teams in bad cap situations to kick the can down to 22. Bargains won't be limited to just this season.
Foosball God
Foos
So you're saying the people that get paid to know things about Football believe Stafford is really good then. It doesn't mean they will be right, but there's that old saying about taking the butcher's word for it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The eye test as well. Stafford makes throws that Goff couldn’t dream of. Stafford has carried the team where Goff often seemed more like he was riding the wave. Plus I think Stafford took a turn maybe 6-7 years ago. He got into shape and really improved his play.
If they get anything for Goff, I'll be thrilled. A day 2 pick would be fantastic. I will be really surprised though, Goff has struggled often while in a fantastic situation, which this most definitely is not.
You won't always get a chance at drafting a QB like Fields. I think he'll be gone by 1.07, maybe to the Falcons. Lance should be there, unless a team like the Panthers trade up. The Lions have so many needs, a trade down would also make sense.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
So Campbell said over the weekend he liked the way KC and Tampa built the base of their teams and then got their star QB to complete the process. I don’t think we can rule out the possibility of the Lions trading back at 7 to a team desperate for a QB like Washington or New England and getting another 1st next year. 7 seems like an ideal spot to land a QB in this draft and with Goff, there will be several teams much more desperate than Detroit for a QB.
Fear The Turtle
Footballguy
Well, that was embarrassing with a house full of snowed in kids: didn't realize that there was more than one noteworthy Kelly Stafford when I googled her image.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
In terms of ability, no. Lions were 5-11 with Stafford though and can be 5-11 without him.
The pundits on ESPN and NFL Network think the Lions made a good trade. Right now the Rams have no first round picks for the next 5 years and they are in cap hell. So they only have a 1-2 window to win and that is about Stafford window as well.
Free agent bargains aren't going to sign 3+ year contracts at a depressed rate. Won't help them when they are ready to compete.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
No need for Goff on this team. Time to roll the dice like the Browns did and accumulate as many picks as possible and practice biting knee caps and losing games this coming season. Take a sandwich for Goff if needed, just get rid of the contract. Not sure who in their right mind would want to take him though. Elway in Denver would be my target as he is probably most desperate at this point.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Anyone whos's watched both a few times would say the same. McVay has created one of the most QB-friendly offenses in the league, and Goff still managed to look bad in it more often than not.
As for this deal, the Rams only increased their cap hit by just over 7 million for now, (22.2 mil dead cap hit plus Stafford 20 mil salary). They will restructure that contract, and sign some extension which will lessen that cap hit even more. I get why they did the deal in a way, since they are in a win now mode with their impact players being on the tail end of their contracts, but giving away the two firsts is a big loss if they don't succeed.
As for the Lions, they have to keep Goff for 2021 or eat a dead cap hit of over 43 mil. So, do they restructure and spread out the hit, or just suck up 2021 and cut him at 15.5 mil dead cap next year? Is he really in their future plans? I would be surprised if so, since he really is average at best. Getting the two firsts down the line was a great move by Holmes and the future. Worst case scenario, Detroit eats the 2021 cap hit, Goff stays bad, and they move on from him next year, and having the draft stock to possibly find their future QB in the draft.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
You don't think the Rams explored trading him and getting something in return instead of having to toss way a 1st round pick?
socrates
Footballguy
My initial reaction to this deal was shock. It seems the Rams massively overpaid for Stafford. That is a haul for a (nearly) 33-year old QB. However, Stafford is a significant upgrade over Goff, and the Rams are in win-now mode. Those picks are not likely to be in the top half of the round, and that must be factored in. Ultimately, the Rams realized they were likely never going to be able to win a Championship with Goff, and dumping his contract in this deal was a crucial part of the trade for them. The components are in place to make a nice run for a title with Stafford in LA. I think this could ultimately be a win for both teams.
From a fantasy perspective, this has to be seen as an upgrade for Stafford and a downgrade for Goff, who was at best a bottom-end QB1 even before the trade. On the Rams' side, Woods and Kupp get upticks, as does Higbee. Van Jefferson is an intriguing dynasty add. In Detroit, I don't know that this diminishes the values of Hockenson or Swift significantly, although they may suffer from fewer trips into the red zone. I am feeling a lot less excited about Golladay, if he remains a Lion.
From a fantasy perspective, this has to be seen as an upgrade for Stafford and a downgrade for Goff, who was at best a bottom-end QB1 even before the trade. On the Rams' side, Woods and Kupp get upticks, as does Higbee. Van Jefferson is an intriguing dynasty add. In Detroit, I don't know that this diminishes the values of Hockenson or Swift significantly, although they may suffer from fewer trips into the red zone. I am feeling a lot less excited about Golladay, if he remains a Lion.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think Goff gives them options which is what it is all about. The team can start the rebuild with him and will be bad but won't be so embarrassingly bad that it kills morale. Goff is probably on par with Cousins and better than anyone the Bears have. We can be bad but respectable. That is really important IMO.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
If not Goff it would be Chase Daniels and he blows too. I doubt the Lions resign Golladay.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Things change fast in the NFL. The Rams aren't the Chiefs and I don't think we can begin to speculate on where those picks end up. The Rams went from 4-12 in 2016 and then won 24 games over the next 2 seasons. Bucs went from 7 wins to a SB appearance in 1 offseason. The Bears are a great example. Here's their record the last 5 years: 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 5-11, 3-13. Totally unpredictable as they could be 500, could be bottom barrel, could be among the top in the league.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
That makes perfect sense as a bridge option, albeit a very overpriced one for a very average QB. I would be careful though with any expectation, as he can possibly look worse than he has. Remember, he is coming from a very QB-friendly system.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Don’t have to go back that far to realize how this could work out really well for Detroit. Nobody in their right mind thought that Houston’s 2021 first rounder would be the third pick in the draft when they had a 24-0 lead over the Chiefs in the playoffs last year.
