The Lions insisted on Goff as part of the deal. They are going to roll with Goff at least the next two years. Detroit will not be drafting a top QB until Goff proves he is not a legit franchise QB. He absolutely is not seen as a bridge.
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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
NFL teams have 53-man rosters and have big coaching staffs which plan strategies and call plays. Everyone underestimates just how crappy the Lions organization was. Shiela Ford may actually be changing things. The Lions would have been winless the last three seasons without Stafford.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
They actually were winless without Stafford in games he did not start the last couple of years. They also lost the game he started but did not finish.
Moonlight
Footballguy
If it happens this way than Holmes must like him a lot and the Lions really made out if they view Goff having that potential.
Moonlight
Footballguy
This is what Albert Breer from SI reported as to what other teams were offering for Stafford. Taking on Goff with the chance he may turn out suggests Lions did good compared to other offers though they have to wait for the payoff.
Breer also broke down what other teams were offering to the Lions for Stafford.
The Carolina Panthers offered the No. 8 overall pick in this year's draft plus a later pick.
The Washington Football Team was offering the No. 19 overall pick with a third-round pick.
The Colts never offered their first-rounder but did discuss packages of picks and a player.
The Denver Broncos discussed a pick swap with the Lions that would have equated to a late first-round pick. That didn't go anywhere.
The New England Patriots discussed packaging a second-round pick with a player but weren't on Stafford's list of preferred destinations.
Talks with the Chicago Bears and New York Jets didn't get far.
Breer also broke down what other teams were offering to the Lions for Stafford.
The Carolina Panthers offered the No. 8 overall pick in this year's draft plus a later pick.
The Washington Football Team was offering the No. 19 overall pick with a third-round pick.
The Colts never offered their first-rounder but did discuss packages of picks and a player.
The Denver Broncos discussed a pick swap with the Lions that would have equated to a late first-round pick. That didn't go anywhere.
The New England Patriots discussed packaging a second-round pick with a player but weren't on Stafford's list of preferred destinations.
Talks with the Chicago Bears and New York Jets didn't get far.
Moonlight
Footballguy
This is from the twitter account of Pete Schrager
I’ve spoken to multiple teams this morning who made calls TO the Rams in regards to Goff, too. This wasn’t some throw-in. The Lions wanted him. He had a market. Around NFL, Goff is regarded well. 25, multiple playoff wins, beat Brees and Wilson in their buildings in postseason.
Lions have opportunity to test Goff or market him. Depends if they are in love with any QBs in this year's draft.
Lots going on for Lions, its an exciting preseason.
I’ve spoken to multiple teams this morning who made calls TO the Rams in regards to Goff, too. This wasn’t some throw-in. The Lions wanted him. He had a market. Around NFL, Goff is regarded well. 25, multiple playoff wins, beat Brees and Wilson in their buildings in postseason.
Lions have opportunity to test Goff or market him. Depends if they are in love with any QBs in this year's draft.
Lots going on for Lions, its an exciting preseason.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
farfromforgotten
Footballguy
You do realize that this is the Detroit Lions of the NFL here, right? The same Detroit Lions who have 110 NFL wins in the past 20 years. The same Detroit Lions who wasted the careers of two of the greatest players of all time in Barry and Megatron. Do you believe that those two couldn't have helped a different club win? We'll never know, unfortunately, but with Stafford at least we'll get to see what happens. Even if he is a little older and little beat up.
Getting on Lions fans for enjoying the career that Stafford had for them is something that I'm not understanding.
Edit: I just reread the part of you bailing on the team. You would be one to question loyalty and not understanding it I suppose.
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Raging weasel
Footballguy
The draft hasn't even happened yet and I'm already thinking this is the best Lions post season I can remember. They are trying new things,bringing in a bunch of experienced coaches and front office guys and making huge trades. It's different and refreshing to see them do things that may make them a competent and functional franchise.If the coach and GM hires work out we can finally win a playoff game this decade.
I just don't think it's very comprehensive analysis to judge Stafford on wins and stats alone. The situations he has been put in, the surrounding talent, the ever changing philosophies... it's not been an environment fertile for wins or efficiency stats.
I'll just defer to the numerous teams and their representatives who were willing to part with 1st round picks +, the people who are actually paid extremely well to analyze this stuff, who felt he was worth a lot and capable of much more.
I don't think Stafford was ever a hinderance to the Lions, and I suspect he is going to really thrive in LA. I would feel pretty comfortable betting that he will take the Rams offense to another level beyond what Goff could or ever would have.
I'll just defer to the numerous teams and their representatives who were willing to part with 1st round picks +, the people who are actually paid extremely well to analyze this stuff, who felt he was worth a lot and capable of much more.
I don't think Stafford was ever a hinderance to the Lions, and I suspect he is going to really thrive in LA. I would feel pretty comfortable betting that he will take the Rams offense to another level beyond what Goff could or ever would have.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Stafford will be better with the Rams than he would have been in Detroit. But so would any other QB. Put Mahomes or Rodgers on the Lions last year and they might..might have been 7-9 or 8-8. With the worst defense in the NFL this team was going nowhere in Stafford`s last couple years in the NFL.
I think all of us had hoped the Lions made the playoffs every other year maybe won a playoff game here and there and Stafford retired as a Lion with a couple division titles and a couple playoff wins. But they have zero of those in his career and neither are not coming anytime soon. So it was time to move on.
I for one hope Stafford has success as he was a good guy, good player and good for the city. Plus he likes to drink beer and now he can have a few with his buddy Kershaw.
Did you know that Kershaw and Stafford went to the same HS? I would not know that if Tony Romo and Jim Nance would not have told me 50 times.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
Some debate on sports talk radio if the Carolina offer was better because we'd get the high first this year. It can be debated, but I'd still much rather have two firsts and the third, wherever the two firsts end up. The Lions will not be good in 2021. To me, it makes logical sense to develop the young players we have, punt the season, and start cooking in 2022. Everything about this deal lines up with a solid rebuilding plan.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Former players TJ Lang and Jon Jansen who both player over 10 years each in the NFL talking about the trade.
Jansen said Stafford is not a leader, Lang who player a few years with him said Stafford never said much it was a "lead by example" type and Stafford never said much in terms of speaking to players ot the team.
Both said this about Goff. The NFL is a confidence game. Goff is only 26 and if he comes in and knowing the Lions want him, Campbell and Holmes want him that he might work out for him. Much like Tannehill did for the Titans. Everybody thought Tannehill was a bust and he was turned into a very solid NFL QB.
Of course nobody knows what the future holds, we just know the past.
Jansen said Stafford is not a leader, Lang who player a few years with him said Stafford never said much it was a "lead by example" type and Stafford never said much in terms of speaking to players ot the team.
Both said this about Goff. The NFL is a confidence game. Goff is only 26 and if he comes in and knowing the Lions want him, Campbell and Holmes want him that he might work out for him. Much like Tannehill did for the Titans. Everybody thought Tannehill was a bust and he was turned into a very solid NFL QB.
Of course nobody knows what the future holds, we just know the past.
jtd13
Footballguy
I don't think it's a debate, pick 8 has more value. You could probably get more than 2 future 1sts for that pick pretty easily if that's what they ultimately wanted.
I think the Lions were trying to do right by Stafford in sending him where he wanted to go. Nothing wrong with that since they are still happy with the return, but it seems like they could have gotten more value.
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whoknew
Footballguy
So weird. I was told when the Lions hired him that Matt Patricia was a defensive genius.
Raging weasel
Footballguy
Yeah. Every year he was here the Lions D got worse and the Pats D got better as he replaced players we had for players they were getting rid of. Genius!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Jimmy Johnson trade chart claims it's about the same, but the later years would drop the value lower. We also have to count whatever value that 3rd rounder and Goff might have.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The one thing I hate about the "trade" charts is they are only accurate if you make good choices with the draft picks you get in return.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Should have hired him at DC then?
Although he DID let Nick f'ing Foles carve him up in the Superbowl, so maybe that shoulda been a red flag.
JJ dropped future picks a whole round so it's pretty significant, but his chart is also obsolete. Here is what he said below to Peter King this weekend about the trade.
Unofficially, Johnson also believed that the value of picks in future years weren’t worth as much as in the present year. “We would discount one round per year,” Johnson said Sunday. “Like if we traded a third-rounder to someone, we’d want a second-round pick next year. But I would say in this case, it’s a little different. I probably wouldn’t discount those future picks in the same way, because Detroit doesn’t really need them as much right now—they’re rebuilding. So I’d say for Detroit, that one next year is probably worth a late one in 2021, and the one in 2023 is probably worth, like, a mid-two.”
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Goo
Good point about them not really needing them in year one. Why start the clock early on their 5 year deal if the first year is going to be a for sure losing season. Baseball and hockey do this with prospects, not rushing them at a time that their team is not ready to win yet.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Do you remember when the Chicago Bears gave Mike Glennon 45 million over 3 years only to turn around and draft Turbisky? I don't believe you can take these teams at their word. "We have no intention of trading Percy Harvin" said Rick Speilman just before he traded Percy Harvin. Detroit scouts might fall in love with a qb prospect yet and they have the draft capital to move up if need be.jon_mx said:
steelers1080
Footballguy
Even if Goff doesn't work out, this seems like a good trade to help build a new core. The talking heads make it sound like the Lions are stuck with Goff forever, whether they like it or not. They could cut Goff next year for a $15 mil dead cap hit, or the year after for a $0 dead cap hit. Nothing is off the table in the draft this year. It doesn't look like they'll go QB early, but there's definitely no reason they couldn't.
I don't for one second buy that Goff was actually wanted and the Rams did not have to pay the Lions to take him.steelers1080 said:
But I initially thought the Lions were essentially on the hook for Goff for two years due to that $15M cap hit and found out the day after the trade that I was mistaken. Overthecap shows that $15M as a guaranty but it's kind of bogus, that guaranty is for injury only. So if Goff does not suffer an injury so long as they cut him before March 19th in 2022 they walk away free.
This also makes Goff easier to trade in-season for the Lions should a contending team suffer a QB injury and they think Goff would help. With the growing McVay and Kyle coaching tree a lot of teams might be running a system he's familiar with.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Interesting:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
During trade talks to try to acquire Matthew Stafford, the Carolina Panthers made a serious offer to the Lions of their eighth overall pick, a fifth-round pick and quarterback Teddy Bridgewater, per league sources. Detroit opted to take the Rams offer. Carolina still looking.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
During trade talks to try to acquire Matthew Stafford, the Carolina Panthers made a serious offer to the Lions of their eighth overall pick, a fifth-round pick and quarterback Teddy Bridgewater, per league sources. Detroit opted to take the Rams offer. Carolina still looking.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Hock on Bussin’ with the Boys along with his workout partner George Kittle.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bussin-with-the-boys/id1464240720?i=1000511418331
on being a choir boy prepping for the NFL Draft: “Six months after getting drafted Bob Quinn told me ‘you’re not the guy I drafted.”
on his first game: “I was like ‘this is NFL? this is stupid easy.’ Next game, 7 yards...next game, nothing. Broke my ankle. Man, I gotta get out of here.”
He’s pretty much Gronk 2.0 off the field. Loves to have fun and works hard. Good guy, you never saw that personality come under Quintricia.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bussin-with-the-boys/id1464240720?i=1000511418331
on being a choir boy prepping for the NFL Draft: “Six months after getting drafted Bob Quinn told me ‘you’re not the guy I drafted.”
on his first game: “I was like ‘this is NFL? this is stupid easy.’ Next game, 7 yards...next game, nothing. Broke my ankle. Man, I gotta get out of here.”
He’s pretty much Gronk 2.0 off the field. Loves to have fun and works hard. Good guy, you never saw that personality come under Quintricia.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Just read another article regarding Golladay's lack of separation. Somewhere I had also read that Stafford was willing to throw it up in tight quarters which compensated for the lack of separation. But that Goff was less willing to do so.
Tyrell Williams is reported to be better at creating separation.
So I wouldn't bet a plugged nickel on it but I think Lions will try to sign and trade Golladay. I do not think he is coming back.
Tyrell Williams is reported to be better at creating separation.
So I wouldn't bet a plugged nickel on it but I think Lions will try to sign and trade Golladay. I do not think he is coming back.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Mike Evans is pretty mediocre at creating separation. Pretty good at using his frame and strength to win 50-50 balls. As is KG, though maybe at not quite the same elite level.
Tyrell has mostly been a deep route guy, right? He's averaged over 15 ypr throughout his 5 years / 2 teams. KG is a lot more than just a 9 route burner.
Haven't really heard of too many successful tag and trade deals. Probably will tag him as it seems unlikely they'll work out a deal. Gonna let Amendola and MJJ walk so we'll need bodies.
Goff is a decent, relatively low cost stop gap for two years. Who knows? He was elite three and four years ago. Way to many holes in the roster to worry about it rn, need EDGE, a whole new LB corps, nickel/dime backs, right side lineman, WR. Franchise QB is obs super important but I would rather we trade back from #7 and pick up an extra couple picks + someone else's #1.
Quinn's roster construction was abysmal. But I like the Holmes hire, and they hired several talented people to work alongside him. Taking a wait and see approach with Dan Campbell but love his enthusiasm. Six year deal seems bonkers on the surface, but I think they recognize this rebuild could take awhile.
So far I like the moves Sheila Hamp has made. A lot of people like to throw Rod under the bus but seems like he's mostly staying out of the way and acting mostly as a buffer with the family. He's in the room when these decisions were made but I don't see any indication he's mucking things up too much.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Feels like it.
Then again I pick up honolulu blue kool aid by the pallet down at Costco.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Hope for a trade back as well. Someone may want to move to 7 to get a QB. Need to see if Goff can be the guy with anew start and we need so many pieces to build around.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Trading back not only makes sense but fits in with the new GM.
If they just let KG walk it would just be a 3rd round comp pick, so they must think they can get a 2nd for him if it ends up being a sign and trade.
If they just let KG walk it would just be a 3rd round comp pick, so they must think they can get a 2nd for him if it ends up being a sign and trade.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
Really hoping one of the top 4 QBs slips to 7 so teams will try to trade up. Starting to get worried they'll all be gone.
If the Lions can't trade back, I'm realizing they may have to take a WR. The choice of players at other positions doesn't seem to warrant a top 10 pick.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I like Waddle a lot there. Sewell (T) will go sure in the Top 5, at least 3 QBs, Chase absolutely...and D Smith but honestly I like Waddle’s game better.
Micah Parsons is the needs pick but would be awesome to trade back and get him in the middle of the round.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Whaddya guys think of Campbell’s coaching staff? He drew some good ones. Little heavy on former players but I think the long term contract made it attractive to come work for him. Weird seeing guys chose Detroit when they had other options lol.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
One of the few times I've seen Mel Kiper make sense had them trading back and taking Parsons + another pick.
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Moonlight
Footballguy
I tnink I may like the ND LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah better. I am hesitant about guys like Parsons who sit out a year. Though that may just be Mike Williams PTSD on my part.
The ND LB is supposed to be an elite tackler with great coverage ability.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I have a feeling JOK is going to climb up draft boards, especially if he pops a 4.4 in workouts. Teams have been using nickel >50% of the time for 5+ years, he’s exactly the kind of fast hybrid LB/S you dream about.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
My 12 year daughter knows more about football than he does. He shouldn’t be in anyone’s top 250 trusted draft authorities.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
It seems he choose some high energy guys like Duce and Glenn. Mixed it with Capers and Lynn. Looks good on paper.
I really like Campbells energy but in the NFL not sure if that will wear thin if the team is not winning. Without a doubt he is so different than Caldwell and Patricia in terms of openess and that in itself is refreshing.
I really hope it works. It seems he will be a players coach if they are on board so that is good.
Foosball God
Foos
The Athletic just did a nice profile on all the Detroit coaches. It certainly has me more hopeful than I've been in a while.
As for draft, I hope they don't pick a player for "need" as they need so much right now they should just be going best player available. If they don't trade back then that means one of the three WRs in my mind. I like Smith best personally, but I'm not sure he'll be there at 7 even.
As for draft, I hope they don't pick a player for "need" as they need so much right now they should just be going best player available. If they don't trade back then that means one of the three WRs in my mind. I like Smith best personally, but I'm not sure he'll be there at 7 even.
Moonlight
Footballguy
So many failures related to efforts replicating the NE brand either through coaches or mgt. Based on the last SB it was the GOAT QB who was mostly responsible.
That being said the Lions really appear committed to shaping their own identity and way of doing things. I think that's the way to go if you want to establish a long term successful culture/organization Dont know if it will work but this is the most enthusiastic I've been .... too long to remember when.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Flowers was a mistake. Very average DE paid like a top 10. Collins overpaid as well. Don`t blame the players though. There is a reason the Pats did not try to keep them.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I know the receiver cupboard is bare (I like the one year Tyrell deal) but I hope they don’t break the bank on Golladay. There is just no reason to at the stage this team is at. I didn’t like how he seemed he milked the injury last year and he was an older rookie and will be turning 28 next year. Good receiver but will not carry a franchise through a rebuild IMO. We are not a playoff team next year so it doesn’t make sense to franchise him either.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
MCDC on the Pat McAfee Show
Great pressers and crushing podcasts won’t matter if they don’t build it the right way. But man alive, I have never in my life - 2021 is season #55 for me as a Lions fan- seen a regime that has done more to change the atmosphere.
We’ve heard platitudes before. MM sure sounded good in the beginning. Mariucci talked a great game, Michigan ties, tremendous attitude with some success. Marty was weird af but sometimes quirky works. Rod had some great history as a defensive scheme genius. Schwartz sounded like a football coach. Jim Caldwell brought order to chaos and related to players on a deep level. We thought Quinntricia could reverse the culture - they did, we’ve probably not seen that level of toxicity going back to Jim Campbell/Billy Martin.
Maybe Holmes and Motor City Dan get Lionized, chewed up and spit out like every other combo of the last 64 years. But sooner or later, someone wil build a winner in Detroit. I might only have 20-30 years left...hoping to see it before I go.
Hock is a stud and will be the best player on the team this fall IMO. Swift is going to have a workhorse year. KG has some elite skills to his game but I view him more on the level of RoY than say Herman Moore (I won’t blasphemy and put him in the same sentence as #81.) Tyrell could be a competent #2 if he stays healthy, open Q who will be the WR1 come late summer.
But they’re a good two to three years from being competing bc the D is a complete disaster. I still have faith Okudah will develop, Slsy sucked his first 1.5 years. Romeo Okwara is a foundational piece. Anyone else not on a rookie deal is expendable and could conceivably be jettisoned. This is going to take a long time and we’ll probably have a top 5 pick in ‘22.
But overall, I am very hopeful about the direction Shelia Ford Hamp has steered the franchise.
Great pressers and crushing podcasts won’t matter if they don’t build it the right way. But man alive, I have never in my life - 2021 is season #55 for me as a Lions fan- seen a regime that has done more to change the atmosphere.
We’ve heard platitudes before. MM sure sounded good in the beginning. Mariucci talked a great game, Michigan ties, tremendous attitude with some success. Marty was weird af but sometimes quirky works. Rod had some great history as a defensive scheme genius. Schwartz sounded like a football coach. Jim Caldwell brought order to chaos and related to players on a deep level. We thought Quinntricia could reverse the culture - they did, we’ve probably not seen that level of toxicity going back to Jim Campbell/Billy Martin.
Maybe Holmes and Motor City Dan get Lionized, chewed up and spit out like every other combo of the last 64 years. But sooner or later, someone wil build a winner in Detroit. I might only have 20-30 years left...hoping to see it before I go.
Hock is a stud and will be the best player on the team this fall IMO. Swift is going to have a workhorse year. KG has some elite skills to his game but I view him more on the level of RoY than say Herman Moore (I won’t blasphemy and put him in the same sentence as #81.) Tyrell could be a competent #2 if he stays healthy, open Q who will be the WR1 come late summer.
But they’re a good two to three years from being competing bc the D is a complete disaster. I still have faith Okudah will develop, Slsy sucked his first 1.5 years. Romeo Okwara is a foundational piece. Anyone else not on a rookie deal is expendable and could conceivably be jettisoned. This is going to take a long time and we’ll probably have a top 5 pick in ‘22.
But overall, I am very hopeful about the direction Shelia Ford Hamp has steered the franchise.
whoknew
Footballguy
I agree with this. With where they are, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to commit big money to Golladay.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Amani Oruwariye def struggled at times but he showed improvement as the season went on. He s/b fine as the CB2. Mike Ford is likely best suited as the CB4 / Dime. If (as expected) Justin Coleman is a cap casualty this week then we have to find a Nickel in the draft. No reason to overpay in FA again but in today’s league - when we run the Dime way more than the Base - slot CB is hugely important.
Early rounds I am hoping the draft selections focus on EDGE and LB. I know it’s a WR heavy draft and there will be a strong temptation to take one in the first (Ptts, Smith, Waddle.) But too many needs on D to take a playmaker.
C and left side are rock solid but have to figure out what to do with the right side. Could have kept Graham Glasgow for the same amount we overpaid for the career backup RT. Of all the terrible moves BQ made that might have been the worst (then again he took Teez and Jahlani in the 2nd so there is competition for that title.) Anyway, need to take OL mid to late and hope it works out.
2021 and 2022 s/b the test run for Goff. Even if we draft one this year (or next), I would prefer they take the Rodgers/Mahomes route and let him develop before starting. They might not win 10 games combined in the next two years, might as sacrifice Goff. Who knows, maybe something clicks and he gets back to the elite level he played at 2017-2018.
Fox is back, but might be time to move on from Prater. Love the guy but just as a matter of resource allocation we should minimize how much we have invested there. Of course the SOL tradition has always been to excel at positions that don’t actually make a difference and Mann/Murray/Hanson/Prater is a heckuva legacy. Death/taxes/Muhlbach is worth another $1M if he still wants to come back.
Early rounds I am hoping the draft selections focus on EDGE and LB. I know it’s a WR heavy draft and there will be a strong temptation to take one in the first (Ptts, Smith, Waddle.) But too many needs on D to take a playmaker.
C and left side are rock solid but have to figure out what to do with the right side. Could have kept Graham Glasgow for the same amount we overpaid for the career backup RT. Of all the terrible moves BQ made that might have been the worst (then again he took Teez and Jahlani in the 2nd so there is competition for that title.) Anyway, need to take OL mid to late and hope it works out.
2021 and 2022 s/b the test run for Goff. Even if we draft one this year (or next), I would prefer they take the Rodgers/Mahomes route and let him develop before starting. They might not win 10 games combined in the next two years, might as sacrifice Goff. Who knows, maybe something clicks and he gets back to the elite level he played at 2017-2018.
Fox is back, but might be time to move on from Prater. Love the guy but just as a matter of resource allocation we should minimize how much we have invested there. Of course the SOL tradition has always been to excel at positions that don’t actually make a difference and Mann/Murray/Hanson/Prater is a heckuva legacy. Death/taxes/Muhlbach is worth another $1M if he still wants to come back.
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