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2024 Detroit Lions 0-0: Who comes? Sutton goes.. (110 Viewers)

PFT reporting PHI QB coach BIll Lazor to be OC for Caldwell (nice work with Foles).

 
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Was jammed up in meetings & didn't hit the innerwebs all day

So we hired Caldwell and might lose Xanders?

Christ this is starting to remind of the Russ Thomas era....

un####ingbelievable

:wall:

 
Was jammed up in meetings & didn't hit the innerwebs all day

So we hired Caldwell and might lose Xanders?

Christ this is starting to remind of the Russ Thomas era....

un####ingbelievable

:wall:
Losing Xanders will hurt more than hiring Caldwell. I would fire Mayhew and Tom Lewand right now to keep Xanders.

 
I would fire Mayhew and Tom Lewand right now to keep Xanders.
I would too but we know that won't happen. Best case we get 1 more good draft out of Xanders before he flys the coop for a GM job. The salary cap being tied up with all those former high picks makes FA pickups almost impossible while draft picks are pretty much slotted money.

 
Caldwell sounds pretty good at the presser. A few too many biblical quotes and do you believe comments but whatever. Almost lost me from the start when he talked about the great history and legacy of the Lions and what a great GM and President Mayhew and Lewand are. Probably should have left that part out.

 
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Caldwell got a 4 year contract at 59 years of age. So it looks like Caldwell will be in Detroit for at least 3 seasons before he gets fired. Thought a 2-3 year deal would be the max.

Looks like the main reason that Caldwell got the job was Tony Dungy talking with Bill Ford.

 
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It was mentioned in the Caldwell thread that since they took over in 1964 the Fords have never had one of their head coaches rehired.

I thought, what about those good defensive teams in the early 70s? Wasn't that Joe Schmidt? He was coach 1967-72, he got them to 4 straight winning seasons, including a classic 5-0 loss in the playoffs to the Cowboys, and then he was canned. Why?

Then I read this and thought, wow the Fords are some real piece of work.

IIn 1969, his playing career was honored when he was selected the "Greatest Lion Ever" in conjunction with the NFL's 50th anniversary, and his team also showed strong improvement, finishing 9–4–1 on the campaign. Just hours after the team defeated the 11–2 Rams 28–0 on December 14, Schmidt's celebrating caught up with him when he was arrested for driving while intoxicated.

Schmidt's best season came the following year when the Lions were 10–4 to make the playoffs for the first time in 13 years. ...The playoff run was short, however, as the Dallas Cowboys won a defensive battle, 5–0, on December 26.

In 1971, the team slipped to a 7–6–1 record, but the decline paled in comparison to the death of Lions wide receiver Chuck Hughes in the waning moments of the October 24 game against the Chicago Bears. The following year, the team improved by one game, but with one game left, team owner William Clay Ford, unleashed a barrage of criticism on the squad as a whole.

The end result was that Schmidt resigned on January 12, 1973, saying that, "coaching isn't fun anymore." His mood brightened somewhat three weeks later when he was elected to the Hall of Fame, but Schmidt never again coached and spent the next three decades as a manufacturer's representative.

Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record.

Schmidt's personality was that of a perfectionist, perhaps one reason why his coaching was not as successful as his playing. He once stated, "I expect everyone to be like me. I guess that's a mistake."
First of all I never knew an NFL player had died during a game. - So basically the Lions go 9-4-1 (essentially 10-4), 10-4 and then that year they were 7-3-1 right after that tragic Bears game (basically 8-3) - so in 4 years Schmidt more or less goes 28-11. Then after that tragic game they go 0-3 to finish the playoffs and then narrowly miss the playoffs the next two years.

At which point Joe Schmidt becomes a manufacturer's rep.

Secondly the whole thing sounds kind of tragic but apparently the Fords did not help the situation much.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
It was mentioned in the Caldwell thread that since they took over in 1964 the Fords have never had one of their head coaches rehired.

I thought, what about those good defensive teams in the early 70s? Wasn't that Joe Schmidt? He was coach 1967-72, he got them to 4 straight winning seasons, including a classic 5-0 loss in the playoffs to the Cowboys, and then he was canned. Why?

Then I read this and thought, wow the Fords are some real piece of work.

IIn 1969, his playing career was honored when he was selected the "Greatest Lion Ever" in conjunction with the NFL's 50th anniversary, and his team also showed strong improvement, finishing 9–4–1 on the campaign. Just hours after the team defeated the 11–2 Rams 28–0 on December 14, Schmidt's celebrating caught up with him when he was arrested for driving while intoxicated.

Schmidt's best season came the following year when the Lions were 10–4 to make the playoffs for the first time in 13 years. ...The playoff run was short, however, as the Dallas Cowboys won a defensive battle, 5–0, on December 26.

In 1971, the team slipped to a 7–6–1 record, but the decline paled in comparison to the death of Lions wide receiver Chuck Hughes in the waning moments of the October 24 game against the Chicago Bears. The following year, the team improved by one game, but with one game left, team owner William Clay Ford, unleashed a barrage of criticism on the squad as a whole.

The end result was that Schmidt resigned on January 12, 1973, saying that, "coaching isn't fun anymore." His mood brightened somewhat three weeks later when he was elected to the Hall of Fame, but Schmidt never again coached and spent the next three decades as a manufacturer's representative.

Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record.

Schmidt's personality was that of a perfectionist, perhaps one reason why his coaching was not as successful as his playing. He once stated, "I expect everyone to be like me. I guess that's a mistake."
First of all I never knew an NFL player had died during a game. - So basically the Lions go 9-4-1 (essentially 10-4), 10-4 and then that year they were 7-3-1 right after that tragic Bears game (basically 8-3) - so in 4 years Schmidt more or less goes 28-11. Then after that tragic game they go 0-3 to finish the playoffs and then narrowly miss the playoffs the next two years.

At which point Joe Schmidt becomes a manufacturer's rep.

Secondly the whole thing sounds kind of tragic but apparently the Fords did not help the situation much.
Chuck Hughes had a massive heart attack and died on the field.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It was mentioned in the Caldwell thread that since they took over in 1964 the Fords have never had one of their head coaches rehired.

I thought, what about those good defensive teams in the early 70s? Wasn't that Joe Schmidt? He was coach 1967-72, he got them to 4 straight winning seasons, including a classic 5-0 loss in the playoffs to the Cowboys, and then he was canned. Why?

Then I read this and thought, wow the Fords are some real piece of work.
**** Jauron

 
"Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record."

Their 2 best guys in terms of win % both got caught with DWIs, guess with the Lions job you gotta turn into a drunk in order to win.

 
"Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record."

Their 2 best guys in terms of win % both got caught with DWIs, guess with the Lions job you gotta turn into a drunk in order to win.
Wayne Fontes got busted with cocaine in his car while drunk and blamed it on his son. The a Lion assistant was arrested while driving naked through a Wendys drive through.

 
"Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record."

Their 2 best guys in terms of win % both got caught with DWIs, guess with the Lions job you gotta turn into a drunk in order to win.
Wayne Fontes got busted with cocaine in his car while drunk and blamed it on his son. The a Lion assistant was arrested while driving naked through a Wendys drive through.
He was hot and he was hungry!

 
"Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record."

Their 2 best guys in terms of win % both got caught with DWIs, guess with the Lions job you gotta turn into a drunk in order to win.
Wayne Fontes got busted with cocaine in his car while drunk and blamed it on his son. The a Lion assistant was arrested while driving naked through a Wendys drive through.
Wayne Fontes just a few years ago sat on an anthill and had to be taken to the hospital for severe butt-bites.

 
"Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record."

Their 2 best guys in terms of win % both got caught with DWIs, guess with the Lions job you gotta turn into a drunk in order to win.
Wayne Fontes got busted with cocaine in his car while drunk and blamed it on his son. The a Lion assistant was arrested while driving naked through a Wendys drive through.
Wayne Fontes just a few years ago sat on an anthill and had to be taken to the hospital for severe butt-bites.
We almost forgot about team President Tom Lewand getting busted up north driving while hammered. The Lions drive employees to drink.

 
Heard Bill Ford Jr in an interview last night saying "He was shocked and dismayed" at the poor reaction of Lion fans to the Jim Caldwell hire. Are they really that detached?

 
What do people think of the Lombardi hire?
Lions hired Saints QBs coach Joe Lombardi as offensive coordinator.
Lombardi is the grandson of Vince Lombardi. He's been with the Saints since 2007, spending the past five seasons as QBs coach working with Drew Brees. Prior to that, Lombardi worked as an offensive assistant for the Falcons for one season and coordinated the offense at Mercyhurst College for four years. He played tight end at Air Force. Lombardi interviewed for the Jets OC opening last winter. He'll be another quality mind for Matthew Stafford to work with.
 
What do people think of the Lombardi hire?
Lions hired Saints QBs coach Joe Lombardi as offensive coordinator.
Lombardi is the grandson of Vince Lombardi. He's been with the Saints since 2007, spending the past five seasons as QBs coach working with Drew Brees. Prior to that, Lombardi worked as an offensive assistant for the Falcons for one season and coordinated the offense at Mercyhurst College for four years. He played tight end at Air Force. Lombardi interviewed for the Jets OC opening last winter. He'll be another quality mind for Matthew Stafford to work with.
OC at Mercyhurst?? Is that a community college? Who knows, in 6 years with the Saints he had to learn something and he can`t be worse than Linehan.

On another note it is not looking good for the draft. Xanders has not been at any interviews or scouting and looks like he will be the next Miami GM. Hard to believe the Lions are going to let the first person who knew what they were doing in the front office walk. It would have been nice to see the Lions be proactive for once and fire Mayhew and promote Xanders.

 


What do people think of the Lombardi hire?



Lions hired Saints QBs coach Joe Lombardi as offensive coordinator.

Lombardi is the grandson of Vince Lombardi. He's been with the Saints since 2007, spending the past five seasons as QBs coach working with Drew Brees. Prior to that, Lombardi worked as an offensive assistant for the Falcons for one season and coordinated the offense at Mercyhurst College for four years. He played tight end at Air Force. Lombardi interviewed for the Jets OC opening last winter. He'll be another quality mind for Matthew Stafford to work with.
OC at Mercyhurst?? Is that a community college? Who knows, in 6 years with the Saints he had to learn something and he can`t be worse than Linehan.

On another note it is not looking good for the draft. Xanders has not been at any interviews or scouting and looks like he will be the next Miami GM. Hard to believe the Lions are going to let the first person who knew what they were doing in the front office walk. It would have been nice to see the Lions be proactive for once and fire Mayhew and promote Xanders.
As bad as the Miami situation is, what does it say about the Lions that Xander's would want to leave for that mess.

 
What do people think of the Lombardi hire?

Lions hired Saints QBs coach Joe Lombardi as offensive coordinator.

Lombardi is the grandson of Vince Lombardi. He's been with the Saints since 2007, spending the past five seasons as QBs coach working with Drew Brees. Prior to that, Lombardi worked as an offensive assistant for the Falcons for one season and coordinated the offense at Mercyhurst College for four years. He played tight end at Air Force. Lombardi interviewed for the Jets OC opening last winter. He'll be another quality mind for Matthew Stafford to work with.
OC at Mercyhurst?? Is that a community college? Who knows, in 6 years with the Saints he had to learn something and he can`t be worse than Linehan.

On another note it is not looking good for the draft. Xanders has not been at any interviews or scouting and looks like he will be the next Miami GM. Hard to believe the Lions are going to let the first person who knew what they were doing in the front office walk. It would have been nice to see the Lions be proactive for once and fire Mayhew and promote Xanders.
As bad as the Miami situation is, what does it say about the Lions that Xander's would want to leave for that mess.
If I'm Xanders and my two best options are sticking with Detroit another year or taking over that mess in Miami, I'd stick with Detroit. If they underperform again next season Mayhew/Lewand have to be the next scapegoats up, right? Maybe he can slide right into the GM chair for a team that's already loaded with talent. Problem is you can't count on the Fords to fire anybody without first giving them 17 chances, so if you're Xanders you have to know that even if they flame out again next year there's no guarantee that Mayhew/Lewand will finally be shown the door.

Still, if I'm him, I think I like my situation in Detroit. Like Costanza and the Pig Men, Xanders can't help but look good next to Mayhew and Lewand, so he'll only be increasing his draw for the next hiring cycle. Another good draft with Detroit and -- assuming he doesn't step into Mayhew's shoes -- other teams will be banging down his door, and at least one has to be a better situation than going to Miami this year.

 
Great news for Lions. Xanders did not get the Miami GM job and is now in Mobile scouting for the Lions draft! :headbang:

 
Some good news about Xander at least. OC hire is hopefully promising for Stafford having worked with Brees for six years, but who knows how it will all play out.

Not holding my breath

 
Very happy that Xander is sticking around. We need to get this draft right.

I was vehemently against the Caldwell hire, but I have to say the more I read about him the more I think he could be what this team needs. A serious about face from my previous stance but I'm thinking the calm, professional demeanor he brings could do a lot for this organization.

Still not a Mayhew fan, but Xander's presence alleviates some of those concerns.

 
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What do people think of the Lombardi hire?
Lions hired Saints QBs coach Joe Lombardi as offensive coordinator.
Lombardi is the grandson of Vince Lombardi. He's been with the Saints since 2007, spending the past five seasons as QBs coach working with Drew Brees. Prior to that, Lombardi worked as an offensive assistant for the Falcons for one season and coordinated the offense at Mercyhurst College for four years. He played tight end at Air Force. Lombardi interviewed for the Jets OC opening last winter. He'll be another quality mind for Matthew Stafford to work with.
I'm not sure what to make of it, but I am glad somebody "new" gets a shot instead of an OC retread. It's positive that he worked with Brees for the last 5 seasons, but Caldwell worked with Peyton and I'm pretty sure that's benefited Caldwell infinitely more than it benefited Peyton.

 
Delmas cut.. Burleson cut. Who is next?

This Suh deal is going to kill the Lions. I just read today that next year Calvin counts 20 million against the cap, in 2016 he counts 24 million. The Lions will have 3 players eating up close to 50% of the cap.

Lions really need to trade Suh and hope to get a 1 and 3.

 
Delmas cut.. Burleson cut. Who is next?

This Suh deal is going to kill the Lions. I just read today that next year Calvin counts 20 million against the cap, in 2016 he counts 24 million. The Lions will have 3 players eating up close to 50% of the cap.

Lions really need to trade Suh and hope to get a 1 and 3.
I'm interested to see how the Lions handle the tough decision here. Gotta let him go and get something for him, but my guess is they won't.

 
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What is the perception of Suh in DET. Is he viewed as a dominant player?

He had a sensational Defensive Rookie of the Year, All Pro Season in 2010 with 10 sacks, 1 INT, 1 FF and 48 solo tackles.

Suh was All Pro in 2013, and a three time Pro Bowler (except 2011).

In looking closer at his numbers, he had 8 sacks in 2012 and 36 solo tackles in 2013, but just 4 and 5.5 sacks in 2011 and 2013, and just 26 and 25 solo tackles in 2011-2012. Numbers may not tell the whole story, if he has been generally disruptive and wreaking havoc behind the LOS so his teammates can make plays.

Geno Atkins was the top DT in 2012, is arguably the top DT in the game and signed a five year, $55 million extension in 2013.

How much would it cost to re-sign Suh? Do DET fans think his play merits what it would take? Looking at the stats, his sack numbers were middling in 2011 and 2013?

 
Delmas cut.. Burleson cut. Who is next?

This Suh deal is going to kill the Lions. I just read today that next year Calvin counts 20 million against the cap, in 2016 he counts 24 million. The Lions will have 3 players eating up close to 50% of the cap.

Lions really need to trade Suh and hope to get a 1 and 3.
I'm interested to see how the Lions handle the tough decision here. Gotta let him go and get something for him, but my guess is they won't.
Let one of the most dominant defensive players go at the height of his career? What would the people who said the Lions have no shot at becoming a good franchise say then? Salaries can be manipulated and restructured every year. "Gotta let him go?" I wonder if that would make us better just because we could sign a few more bench warmers. We just need to hit in the draft like other teams do, after Mayhew gets fired hopefully we get a better GM who can work the deal and judge talent better.

 
Delmas cut.. Burleson cut. Who is next?

This Suh deal is going to kill the Lions. I just read today that next year Calvin counts 20 million against the cap, in 2016 he counts 24 million. The Lions will have 3 players eating up close to 50% of the cap.

Lions really need to trade Suh and hope to get a 1 and 3.
I'm interested to see how the Lions handle the tough decision here. Gotta let him go and get something for him, but my guess is they won't.
Let one of the most dominant defensive players go at the height of his career? What would the people who said the Lions have no shot at becoming a good franchise say then? Salaries can be manipulated and restructured every year. "Gotta let him go?" I wonder if that would make us better just because we could sign a few more bench warmers. We just need to hit in the draft like other teams do, after Mayhew gets fired hopefully we get a better GM who can work the deal and judge talent better.
With $20 mil + im betting they can get a couple few starters.. along with high round picks. They blew a chunk of their cap on 2 players.. can't pay everyone. Would be great if they can play with the numbers, i just dont see Suh giving them a discount.

 
Delmas cut.. Burleson cut. Who is next?

This Suh deal is going to kill the Lions. I just read today that next year Calvin counts 20 million against the cap, in 2016 he counts 24 million. The Lions will have 3 players eating up close to 50% of the cap.

Lions really need to trade Suh and hope to get a 1 and 3.
I'm interested to see how the Lions handle the tough decision here. Gotta let him go and get something for him, but my guess is they won't.
Let one of the most dominant defensive players go at the height of his career? What would the people who said the Lions have no shot at becoming a good franchise say then? Salaries can be manipulated and restructured every year. "Gotta let him go?" I wonder if that would make us better just because we could sign a few more bench warmers. We just need to hit in the draft like other teams do, after Mayhew gets fired hopefully we get a better GM who can work the deal and judge talent better.
With $20 mil + im betting they can get a couple few starters.. along with high round picks. They blew a chunk of their cap on 2 players.. can't pay everyone. Would be great if they can play with the numbers, i just dont see Suh giving them a discount.
He wont give them a discount, but they can work the deal so that it gives em cap relief this year. maybe his number this year will be down to 12mill istead of 22.

Then next year they re-do Calvin, then next year they re-do Stafford

awful cycle the lions are in, the old CBA contracts and having to pay 3 top tier players is killing them depth wise.

 
Delmas cut.. Burleson cut. Who is next?

This Suh deal is going to kill the Lions. I just read today that next year Calvin counts 20 million against the cap, in 2016 he counts 24 million. The Lions will have 3 players eating up close to 50% of the cap.

Lions really need to trade Suh and hope to get a 1 and 3.
I'm interested to see how the Lions handle the tough decision here. Gotta let him go and get something for him, but my guess is they won't.
Let one of the most dominant defensive players go at the height of his career? What would the people who said the Lions have no shot at becoming a good franchise say then? Salaries can be manipulated and restructured every year. "Gotta let him go?" I wonder if that would make us better just because we could sign a few more bench warmers. We just need to hit in the draft like other teams do, after Mayhew gets fired hopefully we get a better GM who can work the deal and judge talent better.
With $20 mil + im betting they can get a couple few starters.. along with high round picks. They blew a chunk of their cap on 2 players.. can't pay everyone. Would be great if they can play with the numbers, i just dont see Suh giving them a discount.
He wont give them a discount, but they can work the deal so that it gives em cap relief this year. maybe his number this year will be down to 12mill istead of 22.

Then next year they re-do Calvin, then next year they re-do Stafford

awful cycle the lions are in, the old CBA contracts and having to pay 3 top tier players is killing them depth wise.
Yes, they were some of the last bad rookie contract years, "luck of the lions" once again.

Like FS said, they need to have some good future drafts where they can be on more even terms in the way of contracts.

 
It was mentioned in the Caldwell thread that since they took over in 1964 the Fords have never had one of their head coaches rehired.

I thought, what about those good defensive teams in the early 70s? Wasn't that Joe Schmidt? He was coach 1967-72, he got them to 4 straight winning seasons, including a classic 5-0 loss in the playoffs to the Cowboys, and then he was canned. Why?

Then I read this and thought, wow the Fords are some real piece of work.
**** Jauron
This is true but he was an interim coach that took over after mooch was fired.

 
What is the perception of Suh in DET. Is he viewed as a dominant player?

He had a sensational Defensive Rookie of the Year, All Pro Season in 2010 with 10 sacks, 1 INT, 1 FF and 48 solo tackles.

Suh was All Pro in 2013, and a three time Pro Bowler (except 2011).

In looking closer at his numbers, he had 8 sacks in 2012 and 36 solo tackles in 2013, but just 4 and 5.5 sacks in 2011 and 2013, and just 26 and 25 solo tackles in 2011-2012. Numbers may not tell the whole story, if he has been generally disruptive and wreaking havoc behind the LOS so his teammates can make plays.

Geno Atkins was the top DT in 2012, is arguably the top DT in the game and signed a five year, $55 million extension in 2013.

How much would it cost to re-sign Suh? Do DET fans think his play merits what it would take? Looking at the stats, his sack numbers were middling in 2011 and 2013?
Suh is a dominant player that commands double teams on almost every play. That being said there is only so much you can do as a DT. The problem is the Lions are paying for being crappy for so long. Calvin, Stafford and Suh were all very high picks under the old agreement. Right now Suh would have made around 60% less and his cap figure would be way more manageable. If the Lions extend Suh their top 3 players will eat up close to 50% of the cap. This past season Seattles top 3 paid players ate up 23%, SF top 3 players 27%. Denver did not have a player that counted more than 7 million against the cap including Manning. The Lions had Stafford, Calvin and Suh all around 15 million. Calvin will be 20 million in 2015, and 24 million in 2016. The future is not bright as far as cap space.

From what I have read this is why Ken Whisenhunt did not take the job.

 
What is the perception of Suh in DET. Is he viewed as a dominant player?

He had a sensational Defensive Rookie of the Year, All Pro Season in 2010 with 10 sacks, 1 INT, 1 FF and 48 solo tackles.

Suh was All Pro in 2013, and a three time Pro Bowler (except 2011).

In looking closer at his numbers, he had 8 sacks in 2012 and 36 solo tackles in 2013, but just 4 and 5.5 sacks in 2011 and 2013, and just 26 and 25 solo tackles in 2011-2012. Numbers may not tell the whole story, if he has been generally disruptive and wreaking havoc behind the LOS so his teammates can make plays.

Geno Atkins was the top DT in 2012, is arguably the top DT in the game and signed a five year, $55 million extension in 2013.

How much would it cost to re-sign Suh? Do DET fans think his play merits what it would take? Looking at the stats, his sack numbers were middling in 2011 and 2013?
Suh is a dominant player that commands double teams on almost every play. That being said there is only so much you can do as a DT. The problem is the Lions are paying for being crappy for so long. Calvin, Stafford and Suh were all very high picks under the old agreement. Right now Suh would have made around 60% less and his cap figure would be way more manageable. If the Lions extend Suh their top 3 players will eat up close to 50% of the cap. This past season Seattles top 3 paid players ate up 23%, SF top 3 players 27%. Denver did not have a player that counted more than 7 million against the cap including Manning. The Lions had Stafford, Calvin and Suh all around 15 million. Calvin will be 20 million in 2015, and 24 million in 2016. The future is not bright as far as cap space.

From what I have read this is why Ken Whisenhunt did not take the job.
Thanks for the input, Da Guru.

The reason I asked, because I'm aware he is commonly viewed as elite and dominant, is that in half his seasons he has had about 4 and 5 sacks, or averaged only about 1.5 solo tackles per game (maybe scheme-related?). In my recollection, other star DL have also been double teamed, but been more productive despite that. Commanding double teams is no doubt important, but others have done that and still managed to make more plays, too.

 
Bob Magaw said:
Da Guru said:
What is the perception of Suh in DET. Is he viewed as a dominant player?

He had a sensational Defensive Rookie of the Year, All Pro Season in 2010 with 10 sacks, 1 INT, 1 FF and 48 solo tackles.

Suh was All Pro in 2013, and a three time Pro Bowler (except 2011).

In looking closer at his numbers, he had 8 sacks in 2012 and 36 solo tackles in 2013, but just 4 and 5.5 sacks in 2011 and 2013, and just 26 and 25 solo tackles in 2011-2012. Numbers may not tell the whole story, if he has been generally disruptive and wreaking havoc behind the LOS so his teammates can make plays.

Geno Atkins was the top DT in 2012, is arguably the top DT in the game and signed a five year, $55 million extension in 2013.

How much would it cost to re-sign Suh? Do DET fans think his play merits what it would take? Looking at the stats, his sack numbers were middling in 2011 and 2013?
Suh is a dominant player that commands double teams on almost every play. That being said there is only so much you can do as a DT. The problem is the Lions are paying for being crappy for so long. Calvin, Stafford and Suh were all very high picks under the old agreement. Right now Suh would have made around 60% less and his cap figure would be way more manageable. If the Lions extend Suh their top 3 players will eat up close to 50% of the cap. This past season Seattles top 3 paid players ate up 23%, SF top 3 players 27%. Denver did not have a player that counted more than 7 million against the cap including Manning. The Lions had Stafford, Calvin and Suh all around 15 million. Calvin will be 20 million in 2015, and 24 million in 2016. The future is not bright as far as cap space.

From what I have read this is why Ken Whisenhunt did not take the job.
Thanks for the input, Da Guru.

The reason I asked, because I'm aware he is commonly viewed as elite and dominant, is that in half his seasons he has had about 4 and 5 sacks, or averaged only about 1.5 solo tackles per game (maybe scheme-related?). In my recollection, other star DL have also been double teamed, but been more productive despite that. Commanding double teams is no doubt important, but others have done that and still managed to make more plays, too.
I would love to see the Lions trade Suh. Suh is a great player, but he will be making twice what the top DTs make. Can`t win in the NFL that way.

If they could get a 1 and out of a huge contract for the next 5 years it would be great. There would be a year of dead money but so be it. This team is in cap trouble going forward.

 
Put me in the camp of "trade Suh if there's a really good deal to be had." Love having him. Our D-line could certainly use him for years to come. But his contract is going to be huge and we could get cheaper labor in the form of picks for him. I wouldn't let him go for anything less than a 1st in 2014 and at least a 2nd in 2014. If not that, then 1st in 2014 and maybe 1st or 2nd in 2015 + more.

 
Wake Forest alumni here. Grew up with Rusty LaRue, his WFU QB. What he did at Wake Forest was nothing short of outstanding. Rusty was proficient but nowhere near prolific. Caldwell is a mastermind. If memory serves me correct as well, Caldwell took over the playcalling duties for Cam Cameron in Baltimore late in the season and they then went on a run to their Super Bowl victory. I'll try and find a link. Also, I bolded a couple tidbits of importance in this article. This is a great hire for you guys.

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/caldwell_jim00.html

Left Wake Forest. Quarterbacks coach for Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

In seven years as head football coach at Wake Forest, Jim Caldwell has earned the respect, admiration and loyalty of his team, the university community and all others who have had the opportunity to meet or work with him. His dedication to the task of rebuilding the Demon Deacon program and personal motivation to see that it is carried through have impressed all within and around the program.

Caldwell gives to Wake Forest a quality style and character befitting the institution's proud tradition and commitment to excellence for the future. Yet within his refined and proper personality, the Demon Deacon leader is truly a coach - a man whose competitive desires and will to win are the equal of any in his profession.

After all, he came to this position after preparing diligently under some of the finest and most capable football minds and leaders in America. He had served under four head coaches who have won national championships. Another is a successful head coach in the National Football League.

In each situation, under each tutor, he enthusiastically went about his work - in his words, "perfecting his craft" - so that when the right opportunity presented itself, he would be ready.

In December of 1992, Wake Forest was that opportunity, and Jim Caldwell was prepared to accept the challenge.

"I entered the coaching profession just to have the chance to work in a situation like this," Caldwell says. "Wake Forest is an institution that stands for all the right things as far as academics and athletics are concerned. It is an institution of very high quality.

"Our goal is to have a football program of integrity in every aspect - and we are making progress. There are a number of visible signs within the program, in regard to discipline, work ethic and things of that nature which are extremely important in building a foundation. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper in order to construct a foundation that will be strong enough. We are doing that. We are building this program the right way."

The 1999 season was evidence that Caldwell has truly built a program at Wake Forest. The Deacons went 7-5, earning their first postseason bowl bid (a 23-3 win over Arizona State in the Jeep Aloha Bowl). Last spring, 23 seniors earned diplomas.

While WFU's record during Caldwell's seven seasons is 24-54, his tenure has included some notable achievements.

  • Last fall, Wake Forest recorded a winning season and earned the program's first bowl bid since 1992.
  • The '99 Deacs defeated two nationally-ranked teams for the first time since 1979, topping No. 25 NC State and No. 14 Georgia Tech.
  • WFU has won back-to-back nationally televised games on ESPN's Thursday night telecast, defeating NC State in 1997 and Navy in 1998.
  • Caldwell teams have won twice in Clemson's famed "Death Valley." Prior to 1993, Wake had won just once in that stadium since 1950.
  • In both 1996 and 1997, Wake Forest stepped out of the ACC and recorded wins over nationally-ranked Northwestern, including a win over the defending Big Ten champions in '96.While reaching these and other milestones, Caldwell has brought an exciting brand of football to Wake Forest, one that has left its mark on both the ACC and NCAA record books. The Demon Deacons have been ranked among the top teams in the country both offensively and defensively over the past five years while seeing their leading individual performers recognized for their outstanding accomplishments as well.
  • Wake Forest was ranked among the top 35 teams in the nation in every defensive category in 1999 (scoring defense 18th, total defense 26th, passing defense 28th, rushing defense 35th).
  • The '99 Deacs boasted the nation's 31st-best rushing attack after having ranked among the top 25 teams in passing in each of the previous four seasons (10th in 1995; 22nd in 1996; 25th in 1997; 16th in 1998).
  • In 1995, WFU quarterback Rusty LaRue established seven NCAA passing records.
  • In 1998, senior Desmond Clark became the all-time leading pass receiver in ACC history.
  • Also in 1998, Deacon quarterback Brian Kuklick became the school's career passing leader while advancing to fourth on the all-time ACC passing list.
  • Last season, senior running back Morgan Kane became Wake Forest's first 1,000-yard rusher since 1993 and he finished his career ranked third in Deacon history for career rushing yards.Off the field as a representative of Wake Forest, Caldwell has achieved as well, personifying the high standards that he has set for his football program while ingratiating himself in the community at every level, too.

    The university staff and faculty are well aware that he stands for the best in college athletics as well as college education. His co-workers in the athletic department have come to know him as a motivated leader, an efficient and well-organized administrator, and a personable and caring person. His players have come to respect his high ideals and the equally high goals that he sets for them.

    In 1997, Caldwell received a tremendous honor from the university community when its Omicron Delta Kappa (ODK) chapter, a national leadership honorary society, inducted him into its membership in recognition for the impact he has had on Wake Forest.

    His former head coach, Joe Paterno of Penn State, knew this years ago.

    "It was easy to recognize the qualities of a head coach in Jim," Paterno has stated. "He works hard, is an able recruiter and has the kind of quick and resourceful mind that enables him to adjust to challenging circumstances. It's also difficult to imagine a more outstanding role model or a more devoted family man."

    The pride in his work and determination in improving himself on a daily basis stems from a background that emphasized those same characteristics, Caldwell says. His father Willie and mother Mary raised three children in a goal-oriented household. All three Caldwell youngsters obtained college degrees.

    "My parents taught us to always believe, and never let anyone tell you that you cannot be exactly what you want to be and accomplish what you want to accomplish-if you seriously believe it and act upon it," he states.

    "They instilled discipline, poise, character and, most of all, the knowledge that the mark of a true leader is a man who can lead himself."

    In his hometown of Beloit, Wisconsin, Caldwell enjoyed an outstanding high school career as a three-sport athlete at Beloit Memorial High. As a senior there, he was part of a state championship basketball team and a track squad that finished second in the state.

    He went on to attend the University of Iowa on a football scholarship, gained a first-string spot in the defensive backfield as a freshman and eventually held that starting position all four years. He graduated in 1977 with a degree in English literature. The experiences he enjoyed as a player for the Hawkeyes under coach Bob Commings, though, led him into coaching.

    "I was inspired by his [Commings'] great love and enthusiasm for the game," Caldwell says. "His zest for life and demanding style also had a lasting effect upon me.

    "After playing for him, I knew I wanted to be involved in a profession where I had an opportunity to work with young people and have an impact on their lives."

    After serving one year (1977) as a graduate assistant at his alma mater, Caldwell accepted his first full-time position under future NCAA I-AA national champion coach Rey Dempsey at Southern Illinois, where he spent three years (1978-80). He then worked one season under Dennis Green (now of the NFL's Minnesota Vikings) at Northwestern before moving to Colorado for three years (1982-84) under Bill McCartney, who was structuring a national championship program there.

    Caldwell's last stop prior to Penn State came at Louisville in 1985 where coached under a former national championship coach, Howard Schnellenberger. He joined Paterno's staff in 1986 as wide receivers coach, was assigned the quarterbacks in 1987, then took over the total passing game the following year.

    During Caldwell's tenure with the Nittany Lions, he participated in six bowl games and proudly wears a national championship ring from the 1986 campaign in which Penn State finished 12-0 after a victory over Miami in the Fiesta Bowl.

    Other bowls on his r?sum? include the Citrus (1987), Holiday (1989), Blockbuster (1990 & 1992), a second visit to the Fiesta (1991), and now the Aloha (1999), his first as a head coach.

    The Caldwell coaching style is not boisterous or loud. His demeanor is outwardly collected, but as he surveys the practice field his eyes reflect that competitive nature that he carries within.

    He misses nothing and is quick to offer a word of encouragement or direction. Offense, defense, the kicking game - he shares in the preparation and coaching of every facet of the total operation, while relying on his staff to provide the actual instruction. Away from the actual blocking and tackling, Caldwell is an exceptionally organized and disciplined leader. Time is used wisely by all concerned. Meetings are business-like and run smoothly.

    And no one works any harder. To him, an 18-hour workday is the norm.

    When asked about his hobbies, he just smiles.

    "To be honest, I don't have any hobbies unless you count my family and the important time that we spend together," he says honestly. "I spend most of my time trying to perfect my craft one way or another. I've always been a diligent, persistent worker. In this day and age, you don't have much time to do anything else if you hope to be successful."

    Jim Caldwell also has a place in history as the first black head football coach ever in the Atlantic Coast Conference. He accepts that fact as a part of his own personal coaching history, but adds that he hopes to increase the recognition of his Wake Forest program for other reasons.

    "I admit that I was aware of the historical significance when I took this job, but not to the extent that everyone else was and is," Caldwell says. "But I've been on coaching staffs where I've been the only African-American, so this seems normal, a natural progression to me.

    "I'm very proud of my heritage. I'm also a professional who has spent 20 years perfecting my craft."

    Caldwell and his wife Cheryl, also a native of Beloit, are the proud parents of four children.

    Oldest son Jimmy has lettered the past two seasons at Wake Forest, playing wide receiver and on special teams. Jermaine is in his sophomore year at the University of North Carolina this fall, while the Caldwell's youngest son, Jared, is a senior at nearby Mount Tabor High School. Daughter Natalie is a sophomore at Mount Tabor this year.
 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130115/nfl-playoffs-jim-caldwell-ravens/

Once left for dead, Ravens a threat again thanks to bold Caldwell move






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Jim Caldwell had never called plays at any level before being promoted in December.
Patrick Semansky/AP
Everyone understood it was a bold and risky move to make at such a vital position so late in the season. But that Harbaugh guy clearly knew what he was doing, because it has quickly elevated his team's offensive production to new heights and brought a Super Bowl berth within grasp.

No, not Jim Harbaugh with his Colin Kaepernick gambit on the West Coast, though that has worked out beautifully, too, for the 49ers. The overlooked call that has greatly impacted this year's NFL playoffs? That took place in Baltimore, when the Ravens' John Harbaugh elected to fire offensive coordinator Cam Cameron on Dec. 10, handing the play-calling reins to Jim Caldwell, the team's former quarterbacks coach and the one-time Colts head coach.

Jim Harbaugh's gutsy roll of the dice at quarterback in mid-November has gotten most of the media attention, and understandably so. But no team is a bigger surprise entry in this season's final four than the Ravens, losers of three in a row in December, and Caldwell's elevation was the key impetus of Baltimore's unexpected playoff success.

If you haven't noticed, John Harbaugh's Ravens are in the AFC Championship game for the third time in five years because Caldwell's resurgent offense is getting the job done in uncharacteristically explosive fashion. Caldwell's work has been masterful so far, and if Baltimore is able to upset host New England Sunday night and earn its first Super Bowl berth in 12 years, it'll likely be because the Ravens offense was able to match the powerful Patriots offense point for point.

The facts speak for themselves and underline the effect Caldwell has had, at least since his mulligan-like first game as Baltimore's play-caller, a 34-17 home loss to Denver in Week 15, just six days after he took over for the dismissed Cameron. In the past three games in which Baltimore's starters have played the whole way (not counting a meaningless Week 17 loss at Cincinnati), here's what the Ravens have produced:

-- In Week 16 at home against the Giants, the Ravens rolled up 533 yards of offense in the 33-14 division-title-clinching win, the third-most in franchise history. Baltimore ran for a season-high 225 yards against New York, with Ray Rice and rookie Bernard Pierce both topping 100 yards.

-- In the first round of the playoffs against the Colts, Baltimore hung up a franchise-playoff-record 439 yards of offense in the 24-9 win, with quarterback Joe Flacco throwing for 282 yards and two touchdowns on just 12 completions (23.5 average), and the Pierce-led ground game contributing 170 yards.

-- And in Saturday's epic 38-35 upset of the top-seeded Broncos in Denver, the Ravens again set a franchise playoff record with 479 yards of offense, gouging a Broncos defense that during the regular season had ranked second in yards allowed and fourth in points surrendered. The dagger, of course, was that 70-yard game-tying strike from Flacco to receiver Jacoby Jones with 31 seconds remaining in regulation. Flacco wound up with 331 yards passing and touchdown passes of 32, 59 and 70 yards, and Rice added 131 yards and a touchdown on the ground.

All told, even with the 23-17 loss in Cincinnati added into the mix, the Ravens under Caldwell have averaged 450.8 yards of offense and 28 points over their past four games, with superb balance (188.8 yards rushing and 262.0 passing). Baltimore is playing the dangerous underdog role in this year's playoffs, and the change at offensive coordinator was the spark for the only team left in the postseason that didn't have a first-round bye.

Under Caldwell's steady, no-drama direction, Flacco has flourished in the past month, looking confident and comfortable as the Ravens have returned to more of the up-tempo approach that they had gotten away from as the regular season progressed.


Perloff: Expect nothing to change in Ravens vs. Patriots Source: SI SI.com's Andrew Perloff gives an early look at the AFC Championship matchup between the New England Patriots and the Baltimore Ravens.Never completely on the same page as Cameron, whose conservative play-calling and hesitancy to fully trust his quarterback were familiar storylines in Baltimore, Flacco is playing the best football of his five-year NFL career, and his comeback win in Denver represented his finest hour as a Raven. Baltimore had lost nine consecutive games against Peyton Manning, dating to 2001. But with Caldwell, the ex-Colts head coach and former Indy QB coach, calling the shots, the Ravens ended that hex in one of the most memorable playoff games ever. Denver hadn't allowed as many as 38 points since an October 2011 loss to Detroit, early on in the team's Tim Tebow starting era.

It's a case of impeccable timing for Flacco, who is eligible for free agency this offseason, and has earned himself a new lucrative contract extension offer from the Ravens whenever Baltimore's latest playoff drive concludes. Who cares about the silly "elite quarterback'' debate at this point? Flacco and Caldwell look like a great pairing in Baltimore, and the quarterback's 7-4 career playoff record and five road postseason wins in five years leave him in a select class no matter what transpires Sunday at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro.

But Flacco isn't the only Ravens offensive star who has responded well to Caldwell's late-season promotion. Rice has twice topped 100 yards rushing in the past four games, after reaching that level just three times under Cameron in Baltimore's first 13 games this season. Rice's 30 carries for 131 rushing yards against the Broncos were season highs in both categories, and his 45 carries for 199 yards in the playoffs leads all still-active NFL rushers.

To upset the high-scoring Patriots (league-best 34.8 points per game in the regular season), the Ravens offense again has to lead the way, as it did in Week 3 at M&T Bank Stadium, when Baltimore rallied from a nine-point fourth-quarter deficit to win 31-30 on a last-second 27-yard Justin Tucker field goal. After getting past the likes of Eli Manning, Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning in the span of four weeks, the task of beating Tom Brady on the road looms as the biggest challenge of all.

But at least the Ravens offense is on a roll and perhaps peaking at the ideal time. Caldwell may not have gotten much credit for the job he did taking over for Tony Dungy in Indianapolis, where he was largely seen as a caretaker head coach with a Hall of Fame-bound quarterback in Peyton Manning, but his credentials are being burnished by the week in Baltimore.

Let the Ravens get past New England, and Caldwell's name might quickly surface in whatever head coaching searches still remain around the league. If nothing else, his late-in-the-game emergence in Baltimore this season has served to quickly rehabilitate his reputation league-wide, after the 2-14 collapse of the Colts got him fired last year.

In Caldwell's case, it was the other coaching Harbaugh who made the risky but right call to toss him the keys to the offense. Colin Kapernick's spectacular success in San Franciso aside, the Ravens have their own bold move to point to as the needed and pivotal development to a deep playoff run. From coast to coast in these NFL playoffs, taking a big chance has paid off big so far.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130115/nfl-playoffs-jim-caldwell-ravens/#ixzz2v2sPCOuZ

Caldwell catapaulted the Ravens :)

 
^^^ Why were the Ravens going to fire Caldwell after the season? ^^^ Caldwell was gone or demoted. Lions saved Caldwell a trip to the unemployment line.

With a week to go until fee agency Suh still does not have an agent. Tells me Suh is going to drop a contract bomb on the Lions a day or two before free agency and say pay it or I walk. Or that he wants to play out his contract. Right now the Lions are screwed. They can`t even plan on free agents with Suhs contract up in the air. They are supposed to work out a contract that will be one of the biggest ever for an NFL lineman in a couple of days?

Right now I really wish they could trade Suh for a couple of picks, bite the bullet for a year of dead money and move on. If Suh get s huge deal it will handcuff the Lions for the future.

 
Da Guru said:
^^^ Why were the Ravens going to fire Caldwell after the season? ^^^ Caldwell was gone or demoted. Lions saved Caldwell a trip to the unemployment line.

With a week to go until fee agency Suh still does not have an agent. Tells me Suh is going to drop a contract bomb on the Lions a day or two before free agency and say pay it or I walk. Or that he wants to play out his contract. Right now the Lions are screwed. They can`t even plan on free agents with Suhs contract up in the air. They are supposed to work out a contract that will be one of the biggest ever for an NFL lineman in a couple of days?

Right now I really wish they could trade Suh for a couple of picks, bite the bullet for a year of dead money and move on. If Suh get s huge deal it will handcuff the Lions for the future.
Suh is going to be his own agent from what I hear.

 
Da Guru said:
^^^ Why were the Ravens going to fire Caldwell after the season? ^^^ Caldwell was gone or demoted. Lions saved Caldwell a trip to the unemployment line.

With a week to go until fee agency Suh still does not have an agent. Tells me Suh is going to drop a contract bomb on the Lions a day or two before free agency and say pay it or I walk. Or that he wants to play out his contract. Right now the Lions are screwed. They can`t even plan on free agents with Suhs contract up in the air. They are supposed to work out a contract that will be one of the biggest ever for an NFL lineman in a couple of days?

Right now I really wish they could trade Suh for a couple of picks, bite the bullet for a year of dead money and move on. If Suh get s huge deal it will handcuff the Lions for the future.
Suh is going to be his own agent from what I hear.
Free agency starts Wed and the Lions and Suh have yet to sit down to talk contract. Are they going to get this done in a couple of days?

 
^^^ Why were the Ravens going to fire Caldwell after the season? ^^^ Caldwell was gone or demoted. Lions saved Caldwell a trip to the unemployment line.

With a week to go until fee agency Suh still does not have an agent. Tells me Suh is going to drop a contract bomb on the Lions a day or two before free agency and say pay it or I walk. Or that he wants to play out his contract. Right now the Lions are screwed. They can`t even plan on free agents with Suhs contract up in the air. They are supposed to work out a contract that will be one of the biggest ever for an NFL lineman in a couple of days?

Right now I really wish they could trade Suh for a couple of picks, bite the bullet for a year of dead money and move on. If Suh get s huge deal it will handcuff the Lions for the future.
Suh is going to be his own agent from what I hear.
Free agency starts Wed and the Lions and Suh have yet to sit down to talk contract. Are they going to get this done in a couple of days?
He isn't a FA. Here's a nice rundown of his current contract.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/ndamukong-suh/

They just need to re-negotiate as he has a huge cap hit this year.

He has finally hired an agent. But can they come to a decent new contract? I dunno... I just don't want them tying a ton of $$ in another player when they have some many needs.

 

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