DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.

Exactly. Smoke and mirrors, 7 win season. Regression from smoke & mirrors 2014. 9-0 vs teams with losing records. 2-6 vs team with winning records. Only to be made worse by the fact that they draw the AFC South and NFC East next year.

2014 they were 10-1 against teams with a losing record - lone loss was @ 7-8-1 Carolina - and 1-5 against teams with a winning records (beat Packers at Ford Field.)

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

Lions win dropped them about 5 spots in the draft. They're last in the five team 7-9 group as they had the toughest schedule.

1. Tennessee Titans: 3-13 (.492)
2. Cleveland Browns: 3-13 (.531)
3. San Diego Chargers: 4-12 (.528)
4. Dallas Cowboys: 4-12 (.533)
5. Jacksonville Jaguars: 5-11 (.473)
6. Baltimore Ravens: 5-11 (.508)
7. San Francisco 49ers: 5-11 (.539)
8. Miami Dolphins: 6-10 (.469)
9. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 6-10 (.484)
10. New York Giants: 6-10 (.498)
11. Chicago Bears: 6-10 (.548)
12. New Orleans Saints: 7-9 (.504)
13. Philadelphia Eagles: 7-9 (.508)
14. Oakland Raiders: 7-9 (.512)
15. St. Louis Rams: 7-9 (.528)
16. Detroit Lions: 7-9 (.536)
17. Atlanta Falcons: 8-8 (.478)
18. Indianapolis Colts: 8-8 (.500)
19. Buffalo Bills: 8-8 (.508)
20. New York Jets: 10-6 (.441)

[zftcg 3,688]

I have mixed feelings about Caldwell. I don't think he's a great coach, and I'd be fine if the new GM decides to fire him (although that's looking unlikely as of now), but as I posted in another thread, the hate has gone way too far on this guy. It's like a Titans-Pats game where NE is favored by 23.5; you don't think the Titans will win, but at that value you want to bet the spread.

The fact is, in terms of his record Caldwell has been a pretty damn successful NFL coach. He went 24-8 his first two years in Indy, and then the wheels fell off in a season where his QBs were Painter, Collins and Orlovsky. He's gone 18-14 in Detroit, and his 7-9 record this year could (and probably should) have been 9-7. Yet people are constantly looking for ways to discount whatever he's done.

My theory is that it's a combination of two factors. One, his strengths (building a staff, motivating players) are not as apparent to fans, while his biggest weakness (game management) is on full display every Sunday. Two, much like Art Shell, his demeanor on the sideline is so stiff and robotic that it creates an impression that he's passive and a do-nothing coach.

Anyway, assuming he sticks around for next year, it will definitely be a big test for him, especially if he has to replace Austin as DC. And I'm not at all confident Detroit can win a Super Bowl with him, though, to be fair, Detroit could hire the reincarnation of Vince Lombardi and I wouldn't be confident (Come to think of it, they kinda did.) Then again, I wasn't confident Joe Flacco could win a Super Bowl, especially not when the Ravens fired their OC late in the season and brought in someone new. That move worked out OK for them.

[lod01 905]

The fact is, in terms of his record Caldwell has been a pretty damn successful NFL coach. He went 24-8 his first two years in Indy, and then the wheels fell off in a season where his QBs were Painter, Collins and Orlovsky. He's gone 18-14 in Detroit, and his 7-9 record this year could (and probably should) have been 9-7. Yet people are constantly looking for ways to discount whatever he's done.

All fine until you read Bobby Layne post of who they beat. They beat other losers. They can't beat contenders. Caldwell has zero balls. That's why they lose to good teams. He won't be aggressive like he needs to be in order to beat the best.

[Futz 434]

The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.

Stafford in a nutshell.

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.

Stafford in a nutshell.

And it's been the personality of the franchise for decades. When they're good, they're beating up on weak sisters. They win 9-11 games, squeak into the playoffs, lose in the first round. Next year they have a tougher schedule and it's back to 5-7 wins and oh with a coupe breaks we could have been right there. It was the same every other year pattern virtually the entire Fontes - Ross era. Then it was a lost decade under Millen (with lingering aftershocks), back into the same pattern under Swartz - Caldwell.

Never good enough for a deep run, never bad enough for a complete tear down / rebuild. Barry, Herman Moore & a couple other good players aren't all that dissimilar from Calvin & Stafford in terms of the net result. Not a formula for a championship run but unlikely to completely tank.

They're bums, but they're my bums. Just once before we die, Martha.

[zftcg 3,688]

The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.

Stafford in a nutshell.

And it's been the personality of the franchise for decades. When they're good, they're beating up on weak sisters. They win 9-11 games, squeak into the playoffs, lose in the first round. Next year they have a tougher schedule and it's back to 5-7 wins and oh with a coupe breaks we could have been right there. It was the same every other year pattern virtually the entire Fontes - Ross era. Then it was a lost decade under Millen (with lingering aftershocks), back into the same pattern under Swartz - Caldwell.

Never good enough for a deep run, never bad enough for a complete tear down / rebuild. Barry, Herman Moore & a couple other good players aren't all that dissimilar from Calvin & Stafford in terms of the net result. Not a formula for a championship run but unlikely to completely tank.

They're bums, but they're my bums. Just once before we die, Martha.

Agree with everything. But it's still a hell of a lot better than 0-16.

[Ladsud 167]

Too many teams need a coach, Lions are behind the game and need a GM. Calvin will probably retire, another year of Caldwell. I hope theres a wr left in the draft by the time the Lions draft.

[The Captain 544]

Caldwell without Austin and Cooter (who could leave to join Gase) is a scary proposition.

[swabs 46]

I don't see Austin not getting a HC job again this year. Lions need to hurry their ### up and get a GM hired, then fire Caldwell and promote Austin.

[Ministry of Pain 5,715]

The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.

Stafford in a nutshell.

And it's been the personality of the franchise for decades. When they're good, they're beating up on weak sisters. They win 9-11 games, squeak into the playoffs, lose in the first round. Next year they have a tougher schedule and it's back to 5-7 wins and oh with a coupe breaks we could have been right there. It was the same every other year pattern virtually the entire Fontes - Ross era. Then it was a lost decade under Millen (with lingering aftershocks), back into the same pattern under Swartz - Caldwell.

Never good enough for a deep run, never bad enough for a complete tear down / rebuild. Barry, Herman Moore & a couple other good players aren't all that dissimilar from Calvin & Stafford in terms of the net result. Not a formula for a championship run but unlikely to completely tank.

They're bums, but they're my bums. Just once before we die, Martha.

I didn't know you wrote for the Miami Dolphins

[Da Guru 6,557]

19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.

[lod01 905]

19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.

Bunch of ####### losers.

[Leroy Hoard 14,031]

19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.

Bunch of ####### losers.

Tell us something we don't already know?

[The Captain 544]

I didn't think they'd interviewed anyone else yet. White was interviewed today so I think they still have a few to go.

[whoknew 8,966]

According to Schefter, Bob Quinn it is. Don't know anything about him.

Adam Schefter

@AdamSchefter

Detroit Lions are expected to hire Patriots director of pro scouting Bob Quinn as their general manager, league sources told ESPN.

Edited January 8, 2016 by whoknew

[The Captain 544]

Millen era is finally over

Just please be better than Pioli and Dimitroff

Edited January 8, 2016 by The Captain

[dirtyjay 101]

Josh McD will be the Lions new head coach, this year or next.

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.

Try again?

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

Let's get to know a little more about Bob Quinn, the New England Patriots' director of pro scouting who will reportedly take over the Detroit Lions as general manager.

Bob Quinn

Born: Norwood, Mass.

High school: Norwood High, 1994.

College: Connecticut, B.A. political science 1998, M.A. sports management 2000.

Patriots resume

Director of pro scouting: 2012-present.

Assistant director of pro personnel: 2009-12.

National scout: 2008-09.

Regional scout: 2004-08.

Pro scout: 2002-04.

Player personnel assistant: 2000-02.

Family: Wife, Julie, and children Kyle and Grace.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick in a Tuesday conference call on how Quinn has contributed to his staff: Yeah, Bob has done a good job, been with us for a long time and has had a number of different responsibilities in the scouting department pro, college, advance, different projects and all that. Hes done a real solid job.

[matuski 5,022]

Pretty big step in the right direction I'd say.

[zftcg 3,688]

Millen era is finally over

Just please be better than Pioli and Dimitroff

What is the track record of Pats FO people in GM roles? Is it just Pioli and Dimitroff? Pioli was obviously a disaster, although I think that was more with his management style than his roster construction. Dimitroff is somewhat more mixed -- he built a roster that came within one Harry Douglas stumble of making the Super Bowl, but it was paper thin and collapsed once people started getting older and/or injured.

At a minimum, the GM tree has to be better than the Belichick coaching tree. Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Weis. It's like the Four Horseman of the Medicrolypse.

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

The pats are like the wizard of oz. All smoke and mirrors. The brady pick has gotten alot of people hired over the years

[The Captain 544]

The pats are like the wizard of oz. All smoke and mirrors. The brady pick has gotten alot of people hired over the years

I like the hire because it's so unlike the Lions, but I have the same concern about the NE tree. I was pulling for the guy from Seattle. Don't know anything about him but he didn't have Belichick distorting his value.

Still a great day for Lions fans.

Edited January 9, 2016 by The Captain

[dirtyjay 101]

Josh McD will be the Lions new head coach, this year or next.

Just call me Deamon.

The Detroit Free Press reports "some people believe" that new GM Bob Quinn is targeting Patriots OC Josh McDaniels as a head coach.

Source: Dave Birkett on Twitter

Jan 9 - 2:24 PM

[Leroy Hoard 14,031]

Considering that they were probably going to lose their OC & DC anyways, this would be the best possible outcome. Outside GM + someone other than Caldwell as HC.

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

Yeah josh mcdaniels sounds about right for the lions. I give him 3 years tops if he is hired

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

Accorsi will stay on as consultant to Wood

[TartanLion 591]

Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....

Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.

Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?

[Foosball God 3,009]

Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....

Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.

Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?

He and Martha have a thing going.

[zftcg 3,688]

What to make of the fact that Caldwell's fate was supposed be announced Sunday, then Monday, and here it is Thursday and still no news? Having second thoughts? Still working on convincing Martha? Negotiating with McDaniels?

[The Captain 544]

Caldwell to return

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2016/01/jim_caldwell_escapes_firing_li.html#incart_2box_sports

[Leroy Hoard 14,031]

Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....

Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.

Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?

He and Martha have a thing going.

Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year.

[lod01 905]

Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....

Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.

Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?

He and Martha have a thing going.

Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year.

It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deep

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....

Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.

Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?

He and Martha have a thing going.

Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year.

It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deep

Alot can change year to year but their schedule is not harder next year. Afc south n nfc east. Instead of nfc west and afc west

[zftcg 3,688]

Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.

Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.

FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.

[Leroy Hoard 14,031]

Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....

Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.

Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?

He and Martha have a thing going.

Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year.

It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deep

Alot can change year to year but their schedule is not harder next year. Afc south n nfc east. Instead of nfc west and afc west

This is true.

[Shutout 2,013]

Just heard the news.

Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement.

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.

Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.

FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.

Unfortunately austin is the token rooney rule interview

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

Just heard the news.

Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement.

For some reason i think keeping caldwell means calvin might come back

[Ilov80s 31,018]

Just heard the news.

Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement.

For some reason i think keeping caldwell means calvin might come back

He is very popular with the players.

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

Just heard the news.

Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement.

For some reason i think keeping caldwell means calvin might come back

Calvin made a point of publicly supporting Caldwell in his comments to the press Weeks 16 & 17.

[TartanLion 591]

I'm okay with this.

We likely keep both our coordinators.

Calvin more likely to come back without another full regime change.

Was never a fan of Caldwell but I take the word of journalists and players alike when they say he is a good organiser that commands the respect of the players and that the current roster play for him.

It's the smart play by Quinn. Give yourself a free year to completely evaluate the roster and the coaches. Our schedule will be easier next season and we will have some continuity. Caldwell either takes us to the playoffs or he doesn't and his fate will most likely be decided on that alone. Quinn won't lose either way.

I like the position we are in for next season. Easier schedule. Decent roster. A plethora of draft picks. A seemingly good relationship between our OC and Stafford.

Absolutely no reason we can't make the playoffs next year and if we don't then everybody that wants Caldwell gone will get their wish.

[tangfoot 2,068]

8-8 with three soul-crushing losses that by all rights should have gone the other way.

[zftcg 3,688]

Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.

Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.

FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.

Unfortunately austin is the token rooney rule interview

Curious as to why you think that. Do you think most teams conduct token interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule? And do you think Austin would not be considered for HC opportunities if he was white?

[BobbyLayne 11,145]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/lions-fire-longtime-scout-scott-mcewen/78849418/

McEwen fired. That's a step in the right direction.

[The Captain 544]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/lions-fire-longtime-scout-scott-mcewen/78849418/

McEwen fired. That's a step in the right direction.

Agree. A real house cleaning is happening.

I like this move as well

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/lions-quinn-interviewing-jaguar-exec-scouting-job/78841692/

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.

Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.

FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.

Unfortunately austin is the token rooney rule interview

Curious as to why you think that. Do you think most teams conduct token interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule? And do you think Austin would not be considered for HC opportunities if he was white?

Yes

No idea

[lod01 905]

It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deep

Alot can change year to year but their schedule is not harder next year. Afc south n nfc east. Instead of nfc west and afc west

That's right. I was looking at 2017. So they get an easy schedule, win more games against other losers, think they've turned the corner again. Keep Caldwell, Wash, rinse repeat.

[lod01 905]

8-8 with three soul-crushing losses that by all rights should have gone the other way.

Because they let their foot off the gas by order of Herminator Caldwell and the other teams come back in the 4th Q to beat them. It's almost like they own the patent on that.