BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.Exactly. Smoke and mirrors, 7 win season. Regression from smoke & mirrors 2014. 9-0 vs teams with losing records. 2-6 vs team with winning records. Only to be made worse by the fact that they draw the AFC South and NFC East next year.2014 they were 10-1 against teams with a losing record - lone loss was @ 7-8-1 Carolina - and 1-5 against teams with a winning records (beat Packers at Ford Field.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Lions win dropped them about 5 spots in the draft. They're last in the five team 7-9 group as they had the toughest schedule.1. Tennessee Titans: 3-13 (.492) 2. Cleveland Browns: 3-13 (.531) 3. San Diego Chargers: 4-12 (.528) 4. Dallas Cowboys: 4-12 (.533) 5. Jacksonville Jaguars: 5-11 (.473) 6. Baltimore Ravens: 5-11 (.508) 7. San Francisco 49ers: 5-11 (.539) 8. Miami Dolphins: 6-10 (.469) 9. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 6-10 (.484) 10. New York Giants: 6-10 (.498) 11. Chicago Bears: 6-10 (.548) 12. New Orleans Saints: 7-9 (.504) 13. Philadelphia Eagles: 7-9 (.508) 14. Oakland Raiders: 7-9 (.512) 15. St. Louis Rams: 7-9 (.528) 16. Detroit Lions: 7-9 (.536) 17. Atlanta Falcons: 8-8 (.478) 18. Indianapolis Colts: 8-8 (.500) 19. Buffalo Bills: 8-8 (.508) 20. New York Jets: 10-6 (.441) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zftcg 3,688 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I have mixed feelings about Caldwell. I don't think he's a great coach, and I'd be fine if the new GM decides to fire him (although that's looking unlikely as of now), but as I posted in another thread, the hate has gone way too far on this guy. It's like a Titans-Pats game where NE is favored by 23.5; you don't think the Titans will win, but at that value you want to bet the spread.The fact is, in terms of his record Caldwell has been a pretty damn successful NFL coach. He went 24-8 his first two years in Indy, and then the wheels fell off in a season where his QBs were Painter, Collins and Orlovsky. He's gone 18-14 in Detroit, and his 7-9 record this year could (and probably should) have been 9-7. Yet people are constantly looking for ways to discount whatever he's done.My theory is that it's a combination of two factors. One, his strengths (building a staff, motivating players) are not as apparent to fans, while his biggest weakness (game management) is on full display every Sunday. Two, much like Art Shell, his demeanor on the sideline is so stiff and robotic that it creates an impression that he's passive and a do-nothing coach.Anyway, assuming he sticks around for next year, it will definitely be a big test for him, especially if he has to replace Austin as DC. And I'm not at all confident Detroit can win a Super Bowl with him, though, to be fair, Detroit could hire the reincarnation of Vince Lombardi and I wouldn't be confident (Come to think of it, they kinda did.) Then again, I wasn't confident Joe Flacco could win a Super Bowl, especially not when the Ravens fired their OC late in the season and brought in someone new. That move worked out OK for them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lod01 905 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The fact is, in terms of his record Caldwell has been a pretty damn successful NFL coach. He went 24-8 his first two years in Indy, and then the wheels fell off in a season where his QBs were Painter, Collins and Orlovsky. He's gone 18-14 in Detroit, and his 7-9 record this year could (and probably should) have been 9-7. Yet people are constantly looking for ways to discount whatever he's done.All fine until you read Bobby Layne post of who they beat. They beat other losers. They can't beat contenders. Caldwell has zero balls. That's why they lose to good teams. He won't be aggressive like he needs to be in order to beat the best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Futz 434 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records. Stafford in a nutshell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records. Stafford in a nutshell.And it's been the personality of the franchise for decades. When they're good, they're beating up on weak sisters. They win 9-11 games, squeak into the playoffs, lose in the first round. Next year they have a tougher schedule and it's back to 5-7 wins and oh with a coupe breaks we could have been right there. It was the same every other year pattern virtually the entire Fontes - Ross era. Then it was a lost decade under Millen (with lingering aftershocks), back into the same pattern under Swartz - Caldwell. Never good enough for a deep run, never bad enough for a complete tear down / rebuild. Barry, Herman Moore & a couple other good players aren't all that dissimilar from Calvin & Stafford in terms of the net result. Not a formula for a championship run but unlikely to completely tank.They're bums, but they're my bums. Just once before we die, Martha. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zftcg 3,688 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.Stafford in a nutshell.And it's been the personality of the franchise for decades. When they're good, they're beating up on weak sisters. They win 9-11 games, squeak into the playoffs, lose in the first round. Next year they have a tougher schedule and it's back to 5-7 wins and oh with a coupe breaks we could have been right there. It was the same every other year pattern virtually the entire Fontes - Ross era. Then it was a lost decade under Millen (with lingering aftershocks), back into the same pattern under Swartz - Caldwell.Never good enough for a deep run, never bad enough for a complete tear down / rebuild. Barry, Herman Moore & a couple other good players aren't all that dissimilar from Calvin & Stafford in terms of the net result. Not a formula for a championship run but unlikely to completely tank.They're bums, but they're my bums. Just once before we die, Martha.Agree with everything. But it's still a hell of a lot better than 0-16. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ladsud 167 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Too many teams need a coach, Lions are behind the game and need a GM. Calvin will probably retire, another year of Caldwell. I hope theres a wr left in the draft by the time the Lions draft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Captain 544 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Caldwell without Austin and Cooter (who could leave to join Gase) is a scary proposition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swabs 46 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I don't see Austin not getting a HC job again this year. Lions need to hurry their ### up and get a GM hired, then fire Caldwell and promote Austin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ministry of Pain 5,716 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The Lions finished 6-2 against teams with losing records. They were 1-7 against teams with winning records.Stafford in a nutshell.And it's been the personality of the franchise for decades. When they're good, they're beating up on weak sisters. They win 9-11 games, squeak into the playoffs, lose in the first round. Next year they have a tougher schedule and it's back to 5-7 wins and oh with a coupe breaks we could have been right there. It was the same every other year pattern virtually the entire Fontes - Ross era. Then it was a lost decade under Millen (with lingering aftershocks), back into the same pattern under Swartz - Caldwell.Never good enough for a deep run, never bad enough for a complete tear down / rebuild. Barry, Herman Moore & a couple other good players aren't all that dissimilar from Calvin & Stafford in terms of the net result. Not a formula for a championship run but unlikely to completely tank.They're bums, but they're my bums. Just once before we die, Martha.I didn't know you wrote for the Miami Dolphins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Da Guru 6,565 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lod01 905 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.Bunch of ####### losers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leroy Hoard 14,040 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.Bunch of ####### losers.Tell us something we don't already know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Captain 544 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I didn't think they'd interviewed anyone else yet. White was interviewed today so I think they still have a few to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whoknew 8,968 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) According to Schefter, Bob Quinn it is. Don't know anything about him.Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter Detroit Lions are expected to hire Patriots director of pro scouting Bob Quinn as their general manager, league sources told ESPN. Edited January 8, 2016 by whoknew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Captain 544 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Millen era is finally overJust please be better than Pioli and Dimitroff Edited January 8, 2016 by The Captain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dirtyjay 101 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Josh McD will be the Lions new head coach, this year or next. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 19 year Lion employee Sheldon White was the last interview for GM. Pretty sure he will get the job and the Lion culture will remain the same. Caldwell is already pimping for White.Try again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Let's get to know a little more about Bob Quinn, the New England Patriots' director of pro scouting who will reportedly take over the Detroit Lions as general manager.Bob QuinnBorn: Norwood, Mass.High school: Norwood High, 1994.College: Connecticut, B.A. political science 1998, M.A. sports management 2000.Patriots resumeDirector of pro scouting: 2012-present.Assistant director of pro personnel: 2009-12.National scout: 2008-09.Regional scout: 2004-08.Pro scout: 2002-04.Player personnel assistant: 2000-02.Family: Wife, Julie, and children Kyle and Grace.Patriots coach Bill Belichick in a Tuesday conference call on how Quinn has contributed to his staff: Yeah, Bob has done a good job, been with us for a long time and has had a number of different responsibilities in the scouting department pro, college, advance, different projects and all that. Hes done a real solid job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matuski 5,022 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Pretty big step in the right direction I'd say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zftcg 3,688 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Millen era is finally overJust please be better than Pioli and DimitroffWhat is the track record of Pats FO people in GM roles? Is it just Pioli and Dimitroff? Pioli was obviously a disaster, although I think that was more with his management style than his roster construction. Dimitroff is somewhat more mixed -- he built a roster that came within one Harry Douglas stumble of making the Super Bowl, but it was paper thin and collapsed once people started getting older and/or injured. At a minimum, the GM tree has to be better than the Belichick coaching tree. Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Weis. It's like the Four Horseman of the Medicrolypse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 The pats are like the wizard of oz. All smoke and mirrors. The brady pick has gotten alot of people hired over the years Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Captain 544 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) The pats are like the wizard of oz. All smoke and mirrors. The brady pick has gotten alot of people hired over the yearsI like the hire because it's so unlike the Lions, but I have the same concern about the NE tree. I was pulling for the guy from Seattle. Don't know anything about him but he didn't have Belichick distorting his value.Still a great day for Lions fans. Edited January 9, 2016 by The Captain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dirtyjay 101 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Josh McD will be the Lions new head coach, this year or next.Just call me Deamon. The Detroit Free Press reports "some people believe" that new GM Bob Quinn is targeting Patriots OC Josh McDaniels as a head coach.Source: Dave Birkett on TwitterJan 9 - 2:24 PM 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leroy Hoard 14,040 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Considering that they were probably going to lose their OC & DC anyways, this would be the best possible outcome. Outside GM + someone other than Caldwell as HC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Yeah josh mcdaniels sounds about right for the lions. I give him 3 years tops if he is hired Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Accorsi will stay on as consultant to Wood Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TartanLion 591 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Foosball God 3,009 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?He and Martha have a thing going. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zftcg 3,688 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 What to make of the fact that Caldwell's fate was supposed be announced Sunday, then Monday, and here it is Thursday and still no news? Having second thoughts? Still working on convincing Martha? Negotiating with McDaniels? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Captain 544 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Caldwell to returnhttp://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2016/01/jim_caldwell_escapes_firing_li.html#incart_2box_sports Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leroy Hoard 14,040 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?He and Martha have a thing going.Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lod01 905 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ?He and Martha have a thing going.Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year.It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deep Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ? He and Martha have a thing going. Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year. It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deepAlot can change year to year but their schedule is not harder next year. Afc south n nfc east. Instead of nfc west and afc west 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zftcg 3,688 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leroy Hoard 14,040 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Presumably that is a good thing. I liked this bit....Accorsi, whos led recent GM searches for the Panthers, Atlanta Falcons and Chicago Bears, said he agreed to run the Lions search at the behest of Panthers owner Jerry Richardson and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell because Lions owner Martha Ford was so committed to try and get this thing on the right track.Any reason why the Panthers owner is involved ? He and Martha have a thing going. Pretty sure it's a 3-way involving Caldwell. This is the main reason he is back this year. It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deepAlot can change year to year but their schedule is not harder next year. Afc south n nfc east. Instead of nfc west and afc westThis is true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shutout 2,013 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Just heard the news. Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.Unfortunately austin is the token rooney rule interview Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Just heard the news. Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement. For some reason i think keeping caldwell means calvin might come back Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ilov80s 31,036 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Just heard the news. Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement. For some reason i think keeping caldwell means calvin might come backHe is very popular with the players. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Just heard the news. Sorry Lions fans. There goes hope for another year and probably pushes Calvin out the door another step towards retirement. For some reason i think keeping caldwell means calvin might come backCalvin made a point of publicly supporting Caldwell in his comments to the press Weeks 16 & 17. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TartanLion 591 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm okay with this. We likely keep both our coordinators. Calvin more likely to come back without another full regime change. Was never a fan of Caldwell but I take the word of journalists and players alike when they say he is a good organiser that commands the respect of the players and that the current roster play for him. It's the smart play by Quinn. Give yourself a free year to completely evaluate the roster and the coaches. Our schedule will be easier next season and we will have some continuity. Caldwell either takes us to the playoffs or he doesn't and his fate will most likely be decided on that alone. Quinn won't lose either way. I like the position we are in for next season. Easier schedule. Decent roster. A plethora of draft picks. A seemingly good relationship between our OC and Stafford. Absolutely no reason we can't make the playoffs next year and if we don't then everybody that wants Caldwell gone will get their wish. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tangfoot 2,068 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 8-8 with three soul-crushing losses that by all rights should have gone the other way. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zftcg 3,688 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.Unfortunately austin is the token rooney rule interviewCurious as to why you think that. Do you think most teams conduct token interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule? And do you think Austin would not be considered for HC opportunities if he was white? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyLayne 11,153 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/lions-fire-longtime-scout-scott-mcewen/78849418/McEwen fired. That's a step in the right direction. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Captain 544 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/lions-fire-longtime-scout-scott-mcewen/78849418/McEwen fired. That's a step in the right direction.Agree. A real house cleaning is happening. I like this move as wellhttp://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/lions-quinn-interviewing-jaguar-exec-scouting-job/78841692/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Meanwhile, in an even bigger surprise, Austin looks set to return. Only HC spot still open is Tenn, and they seem likely to bring back Mularkey.Really surprising no one's hired him yet. Do you think he doesn't interview well or something? I seem to recall hearing the opposite.FWIW, the last two coaches I remember who were locks for HC jobs but took forever to get hired were Marvin Lewis and Rivera. Based on that precedent, whoever finally ends up with Austin should be in pretty good shape.Unfortunately austin is the token rooney rule interview Curious as to why you think that. Do you think most teams conduct token interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule? And do you think Austin would not be considered for HC opportunities if he was white?YesNo idea Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lod01 905 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 It certainly isn't because they are trying to build a winning organization. Their schedule is harder than 2016 was and when you have a HC that is afraid to take chances and put up points on the board, it's a recipe for losing. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72122/understanding-why-the-detroit-lions-are-not-throwing-to-calvin-johnson-deepAlot can change year to year but their schedule is not harder next year. Afc south n nfc east. Instead of nfc west and afc westThat's right. I was looking at 2017. So they get an easy schedule, win more games against other losers, think they've turned the corner again. Keep Caldwell, Wash, rinse repeat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lod01 905 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 8-8 with three soul-crushing losses that by all rights should have gone the other way.Because they let their foot off the gas by order of Herminator Caldwell and the other teams come back in the 4th Q to beat them. It's almost like they own the patent on that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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