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DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?


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I believe this is the first win the Lions have ever had in January.

I’m usually not one to get caught up in “celebrity” lives, but as a parent my ♥️ goes out to Matthew & Kelly. Her six hour brain surgery morphed into a twelve hour procedure, but she’s walking and

3 hours ago, jon_mx said:

And despite Caldwell's reputation for being dumb, he has assembled a great coaching staff and has done a great job. 

Totally. As people said last season, he's not a great in game coach but seems to be a good leader of men, a good facilitator for the correct coaching environment and the type of guy that gets nothing but respect off of the players.

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Second impressive game from the DBs. Hayden got beat on the Boldin drop, Quinn & Slay made some great plays, Diggs was outstanding in the slot, Killibrew is a playmaker. LBs continue to be the weak link but Jarrad Davis been impresssive. Great to see Ansah back to himself.

This defense has a chance to be one of the better units in the league.

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53 minutes ago, zftcg said:

 

2 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Second impressive game from the DBs. Hayden got beat on the Boldin drop

 :confused: :confused: :confused:

Are you getting your fossilized WRs confused again?

:lmao:

"I'm old man, I get confused"

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10 hours ago, jon_mx said:

And despite Caldwell's reputation for being dumb, he has assembled a great coaching staff and has done a great job. 

Caldwell problems have always been in tight games and managing the game and clock. Lions were in control of this game from the start.

If you have a good staff you really don`t have to do much during the game.

 

I was hoping the blue pants would grow on me but they didn't.  Like the all white and silver road uniforms better.

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6 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Caldwell problems have always been in tight games and managing the game and clock. Lions were in control of this game from the start.

If you have a good staff you really don`t have to do much during the game.

 

I was hoping the blue pants would grow on me but they didn't.  Like the all white and silver road uniforms better.

And last year the team was brilliant handling the clock with several miraculous 4th quarter multi-score comebacks.  I know he did some bonehead moves with the Colts, but he seems to have learned or has much better guidance now. 

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

And last year the team was brilliant handling the clock with several miraculous 4th quarter multi-score comebacks.  I know he did some bonehead moves with the Colts, but he seems to have learned or has much better guidance now. 

Didn't he hire someone last year to help with clock management? I never heard any specific examples of how that person helped, but certainly the results were much better.

I feel like Caldwell is a good CEO but maybe not the best COO. But that was exactly why I liked that move so much. IMO, recognizing your own weaknesses and taking steps to address them is a far better quality in a manager than continuing to do things you're not good at solely due to ego. Too many coaches feel like they have to be CEO, COO, position coach, equipment manager, jockstrap tightener and a bunch of other jobs, solely as a way to demonstrate they're in command. (Gregg Easterbrook's TMQ column used to have a hilarious riff about all of the job titles Mike Shanahan listed in his official Broncos' bio).

He'll never be a great game manager. He'll never look like someone who inspires a lot of confidence. But it's hard to argue with the results so far.

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By Nate Atkins natkins@mlive.com

DETROIT -- The Detroit Lions entered the 2017 season with Miles Killebrew still locked in that third safety spot on the defense. It was a step forward for the second-year hybrid player, but not exactly a giant leap. They asked Tavon Wilson to play all but one snap and do a little of everything as the second safety, from blitzing to covering all kinds of ground in dropping back deep to defend the pass.

Then Killebrew had a coming-out party of sorts, making sure tackles, locking down tight ends and taking an interception to the house. The Lions then rewarded him against the New York Giants by giving him the nod at strong safety.

Killebrew outsnapped Wilson 42-23 in Detroit's 24-10 victory over New York on Monday Night Football. Those 42 snaps were up the fifth-most on defense and uop from his 29 the previous week. Killebrew's 75 percent of snaps played against the Giants were almost double his career high. He turned them into four tackles and a pass deflection.

The support Killebrew offered on Odell Beckham Jr., the star through which the Giants offense runs, was instrumental in shutting New York down to just 10 points for the game and very little threat of scoring a touchdown all contest, outside of one busted coverage. Beckham Jr. caught just four passes for 36 yards and no scores in his 2017 debut.

Here are some other observations based on how the snap counts shook out:

-- Detroit went with a split backfield again in terms of playing time. Ameer Abdullah got the start and played 28 snaps. Theo Riddick was just behind with 27. And Dwayne Washington pulled up the rear with seven. Abdullah took 17 of the 23 running back carries, however, and turned those into 86 yards and a healthy 5.1 yards-per-carry average -- impressive against this stout New York front. Jim Bob Cooter seems to have a formula down to limit the workloads of his undersized backs but to also employ them in the running and passing plays where they fit.

-- Ezekiel Ansah was on a pitch count again, playing just 28 snaps, or exactly half the game. He's still working back from the knee injury that cost him the entire preseason, but he was stellar on the plays he was in for, bullying Ereck Flowers for three sacks. That total is already more than Ansah had all of last season, when he was hobbled by an ankle injury.

-- Quandre Diggs was rewarded for a stellar first game at nickel corner with 79 percent of the snaps in this one. That was about in line with last week, but that was also DJ Hayden's first game in Detroit's system. Diggs was solid again with exceptional tackling, and he made some contributions to limiting Beckham Jr. as well, something the Lions failed to do with Diggs out injured in this meeting late last season. It appears he has the starting nickel spot on lockdown, and Hayden is merely a backup who can fill in for him or for Nevin Lawson on the outside.

-- Tight ends Darren Fells and Michael Roberts increased their snaps from 40 in the first game to 58 against the Giants. Playing behind the clear receiving threat in Eric Ebron, these two added some power elements to the Lions rushing attack as Detroit looked to control clock in this one, and it paid off with a rushing performance that was far better than many saw coming against New York's stout front: 32 carries for 138 yards.

-- Alex Barrett received two snaps again at fullback, to go along with his 11 snaps at his primary spot of defensive end. It's something the Lions tried with a little success in the first week, and it's a way to keep the fullback element in the offense a tiny bit even after the team got rid of its traditional players at that position this offseason.

OFFENSE

G TJ Lang 62 (100 percent)
G Graham Glasgow 62 (100 percent)
T Greg Robinson T 62 (100 percent)
C Travis Swanson 62 (100 percent)
T Rick Wagner 62 (100 percent)
QB Matthew Stafford 62 (100 percent) 
WR Marvin Jones 56 (90 percent)
WR Golden Tate 43 (69 percent) 
TE Darren Fells 41 (66 percent)
TE Eric Ebron 40 (65 percent) 
WR Kenny Golladay 34 (55 percent) 
RB Ameer Abdullah 28 (45 percent) 
RB Theo Riddick 27 (44 percent) 
TE Michael Roberts 17 (27 percent)
WR TJ Jones 15 (24 percent)
RB Dwayne Washington 7 (11 percent)
FB Alex Barrett DE 2 (3 percent)


DEFENSE

FS Glover Quin 56 (100 percent)
CB Darius Slay 56 (100 percent)
LB Tahir Whitehead 45 (80 percent)
CB Quandre Diggs 44 (79 percent)
SS Miles Killebrew 42 (75 percent)
LB Jarrad Davis 42 (75 percent)
CB Nevin Lawson 38 (68 percent)
DE Anthony Zettel 36 (64 percent)
DT A'Shawn Robinson 35 (62 percent)
DT Haloti Ngata 28 (50 percent)
DE Ezekiel Ansah 28 (50 percent) 
DE Cornelius Washington 27 (48 percent)
DT Akeem Spence 27 (48 percent) 
SS Tavon Wilson 23 (41 percent)
CB DJ Hayden 18 (32 percent)
DT Jeremiah Ledbetter 18 (32 percent) 
LB Jalen Reeves-Maybin 16 (29 percent)
LB Paul Worrilow 12 (21 percent)
DE Alex Barrett 11 (20 percent)
DE Jeremiah Valoaga 11 (20 percent)
FS Charles Washington 3 (5 percent)

SPECIAL TEAMS

Don Carey 20 (80 percent) 
Paul Worrilow 20 (80 percent) 
Jamal Agnew 18 (72 percent)
Steve Longa 18 (72 percent) 
Jalen Reeves-Maybin 18 (72 percent)
Charles Washington 18 (72 percent) 
Miles Killebrew 17 (68 percent) 
Michael Robert 17 (68 percent)
Jeff Locke 15 (60 percent) 
Quandre Diggs 11 (44 percent)
Don Muhlbach 10 (40 percent) 
Darren Fells 10 (40 percent)
Dwayne Washington 10 (40 percent)
Nevin Lawson 10 (40 percent) 
Matt Prater 5 (20 percent) 
TJ Lang 5 (20 percent) 
Graham Glasgow 5 (20 percent)
Greg Robinson 5 (20 percent)
Travis Swanson 5 (20 percent)
Rick Wagner 5 (20 percent)
Brian Mihalik 5 (20 percent) 
Joe Dahl 3 (12 percent)
TJ Jones 3 (12 percent)
Tahir Whitehead 3 (12 percent) 
Glover Quin 2 (8 percent) 
Darius Slay 2 (8 percent)
Jarrad Davis 2 (8 percent) 
A'Shawn Robinson 2 (8 percent) 
Cornelius Washington 2 (8 percent) 
Haloti Ngata 2 (8 percent) 
DJ Hayden 2 (8 percent) 
Jeremiah Valoaga 2 (8 percent) 
Anthony Zettel 1 (4 percent) 
Tavon Wilson 1 (4 percent)

 

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Nice stat breakdown. :thumbup:

We all need more info like that and less of the usual ying/yang kool-aid / or they suck stuff.

We already know their previous 60 year history. We've all lived thru at least part of it, some of us most or all.

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9 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Giants might have the worst LT in the league.

Greg Robinson:

Hold my beer


 

It did seem to be a competition between the LTs for bottom dweller. Hopefully Decker will eventually come and save the day for the Lions.

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Re-watching the 4th quarter just now and Slay makes two great plays towards the end on Marshall and then Ingram. The one on Ingram was particularly great. Key for D this year is the spine staying fit. If Robinson - Ansah - Davis - Quinn - Slay can all manage pretty much an entire season then the D will be in pretty good shape. 

Always good to live in the present but I can't help but think about the future. Have always thought since the GM came, that by next year we'll be in very good shape indeed. 

It would be nice to grab an explosive  player on O somewhere like a Tyreek style guy, or maybe a power running back, but I'd love to see us just draft entirely on D almost a bit like the Ravens did. 

Our O looks pretty complete right now, imagine just loading up on D massively, it would add the required depth and possibly turn the unit into a top level one. 

Edited by TartanLion
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2 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:
12 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Giants might have the worst LT in the league.

Greg Robinson:

Hold my beer
 

It did seem to be a competition between the LTs for bottom dweller. Hopefully Decker will eventually come and save the day for the Lions.

Got into an argument - I'd like to think it was good natured ribbing - with some guys in our section who think Pugh is the worst LT ever. "Listen, guy - I'm a subject matter expert on bad football. What do you know about rooting for a crappy team?"

They were booing lustily every time Perkins touched the ball. Admittedly some of those were give up plays (let's try a draw on 3rd and long / let's run up the gut on 2nd and goal from the 11, etc.)

After that Punt Return we decided it was time for Uber, and left. We were going nuts during that runback, and personal safety may have been a factor. :lol: True story, when the Giants were lining up for that punt I told my friend (a little too loudly) "This kid is taking one back this year, now would be a great time to close this out."

I had my Stafford jersey on, my buddy wore his Miles Killebrew. #onepride

 

Edited by BobbyLayne
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10 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Got into an argument - I'd like to think it was good natured ribbing - with some guys in our section who think Pugh is the worst LT ever. "Listen, guy - I'm a subject matter expert on bad football. What do you know about rooting for a crappy team?"

They were booing lustily every time Perkins touched the ball. Admittedly some of those were give up plays (let's try a draw on 3rd and long / let's run up the gut on 2nd and goal from the 11, etc.)

After that Punt Return we decided it was time for Uber, and left. We were going nuts during that runback, and personal safety may have been a factor. :lol: True story, when the Giants were lining up for that punt I told my friend (a little too loudly) "This kid is taking one back this year, now would be a great time to close this out."

I had my Stafford jersey on, my buddy wore his Miles Killebrew. #onepride

 

Way to represent!  I almost got teary towards the end of the game when you could here someone doing the "lets go Lions!" chant.  When was our last Monday night road win?  I can't remember one ever.  

Would be great to keep it rolling this week -- such a turnaround from the first quarter against the Cards when I thought we were destined for another embarassment

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Swanson is playing, so that’s a big help. As bad as Greg Robinson is, 4/5ths of that line is rock solid. Got a couple road graders over on the right side now, great job by Quinn. When Taylor Decker gets back we can say we’ve got one of the better O-lines around. You have to go back to the days of Kevin Glover & Big Mouth Lomas to find a comp. Need Fells or a RB to stay in to max protect this week & help out our band aid LT IMO, but without Vic Beasley, this is not the same Falcons D.

A’Shawn Robinson is becoming a force inside. A Falcons beat writer called him the weak link. :lmao: Get back to me on that. Zettel has a great motor, boy has he made a leap in year two. Once again, Quinn doing his job well. Great to have Ziggy healthy again, dude is freakishly good considering he started playing football after Obamacare passed. Ngata  ain’t a Pro Bowler anymore but he’s still a great run stuffer, and his sack on MNF set the tone. So we’re missing Thornton (suspension) & lost 2-3 DL to injury this summer, they don’t have the rotation depth we hoped for, but solid front four.

Jarrad Davis is a great football player. Just what we needed. Sucks about the OBJ cheap shot but that’s football, gonna have injuries & need Reeves-Maybin to step up. He looked good in coverage this summer. Whitehead has made a couple plays this year but what a drop-off; surprised they brought him back, he was just about the worst LB in coverage last year (73rd out of 76.) Not impressed with Worrilow YTD; he always has a ton of tackles when he was with the Falcons, but just doesn’t seem impactful. Clearly LB is our weakest link even when JD is playing, and the Falcons could really exploit this.

Slay will be fine, he gets burned sometimes but he has that knack for the big play (Eagles game last year, two great breakups late on MMF.) Lawson is adequate at best but my goodness Hayden is lost. Wilson out probably means more Miles Killebrew, that’s addition by subtraction in my mind - 35 is just about my favorite player ATM. Diggs was good as a rookie, terrible last year, graded out as the #1 slot corner this year. Quinn is everything you want in a veteran leader: durable, great ball instincts, has the authority to call coverages when he sees something. This is a good group, especially when the front seven get pressure.

Stafford is not Brady-Rodgers but dayum has he matured or what? So much better presnap than three years ago, doesn’t make WTH throws like when he was younger, has learned even upright awkward QBs who run pose issues (he picks his spots well.) Love our QB but I’ll keep saying it: the stats, the cannon arm, the hot wife/beautiful twins/MotY charity work...it means nothing. Beat GB, win the division, get past the first round...from here on out, it’s about the legacy.

Falcons are a good team, made Rodgers look like a chump. Coming off MNF road games is never easy. But I like our chances tomorrow.

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

Swanson is playing, so that’s a big help. As bad as Greg Robinson is, 4/5ths of that line is rock solid. Got a couple road graders over on the right side now, great job by Quinn. When Taylor Decker gets back we can say we’ve got one of the better O-lines around. You have to go back to the days of Kevin Glover & Big Mouth Lomas to find a comp. Need Fells or a RB to stay in to max protect this week & help out our band aid LT IMO, but without Vic Beasley, this is not the same Falcons D.

A’Shawn Robinson is becoming a force inside. A Falcons beat writer called him the weak link. :lmao: Get back to me on that. Zettel has a great motor, boy has he made a leap in year two. Once again, Quinn doing his job well. Great to have Ziggy healthy again, dude is freakishly good considering he started playing football after Obamacare passed. Ngata  ain’t a Pro Bowler anymore but he’s still a great run stuffer, and his sack on MNF set the tone. So we’re missing Thornton (suspension) & lost 2-3 DL to injury this summer, they don’t have the rotation depth we hoped for, but solid front four.

Jarrad Davis is a great football player. Just what we needed. Sucks about the OBJ cheap shot but that’s football, gonna have injuries & need Reeves-Maybin to step up. He looked good in coverage this summer. Whitehead has made a couple plays this year but what a drop-off; surprised they brought him back, he was just about the worst LB in coverage last year (73rd out of 76.) Not impressed with Worrilow YTD; he always has a ton of tackles when he was with the Falcons, but just doesn’t seem impactful. Clearly LB is our weakest link even when JD is playing, and the Falcons could really exploit this.

Slay will be fine, he gets burned sometimes but he has that knack for the big play (Eagles game last year, two great breakups late on MMF.) Lawson is adequate at best but my goodness Hayden is lost. Wilson out probably means more Miles Killebrew, that’s addition by subtraction in my mind - 35 is just about my favorite player ATM. Diggs was good as a rookie, terrible last year, graded out as the #1 slot corner this year. Quinn is everything you want in a veteran leader: durable, great ball instincts, has the authority to call coverages when he sees something. This is a good group, especially when the front seven get pressure.

Stafford is not Brady-Rodgers but dayum has he matured or what? So much better presnap than three years ago, doesn’t make WTH throws like when he was younger, has learned even upright awkward QBs who run pose issues (he picks his spots well.) Love our QB but I’ll keep saying it: the stats, the cannon arm, the hot wife/beautiful twins/MotY charity work...it means nothing. Beat GB, win the division, get past the first round...from here on out, it’s about the legacy.

Falcons are a good team, made Rodgers look like a chump. Coming off MNF road games is never easy. But I like our chances tomorrow.

Ziggy did what he was supposed to do playing against one of the worst starting LTs to ever line up in the NFL. I'm not sure he's all the way back yet but it's great step in that directon.

I didn't think OBJ's play was cheap which to me infers intent to injure, just a boneheaded football play that should have been flagged. I felt he intended to push him on the shoulder and just got more of the back. That stuff happens every game. I think Davis is a very good player to be. He seems to have good instincts and is a pretty good tackler but his size concerns me. He doesn't look the part of a MLB. He's listed at 6' 1" 238 but he looks lighter to me. He can go side line to side line but can he physically hold up in the middle?  I'd like to see him about 10 pounds heavier surrounded by the Maybin types that may be smaller and quicker on the outside. Speaking of Maybin, he looks lost to me and not ready for significant minutes. He runs himself out of the play way too much. He's young, he'll improve but ATL will take advantage of this. I have Freeman on my FF team and he's going to go off.

Stafford is now in the tier just below the best QBs out there. Coming out of college, he was JAG with a throwing arm and he's physically matured into a better athlete. His early injuries would also suggest that. He used to look like a guy tap dancing on broken glass in the pocket. Slow and indecisive. Now he's moving more fluidly and making plays by getting out of the pocket. This along with presnap intelligence has really made him into a near elite QB. I wasn't sure if Stafford's play would continue to progress from last year. It has and it's no fluke.

I think Slay is more than just fine. I think he is playing at an all pro level now. He looks completely comfortable lining up against team's #1s and doing more than just holding the fort down. He's winning these matchups more times than not.

I think if the Lions had Davis, it may have been the tipping point to an upset win here but I just don't think the depth is there at LB to compensate for it this week. We may get another crack at them in the playoffs down the road but for this week: ATL 31 Detroit 27. I hope I'm wrong.

Edited by Futz
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I am not sure there is a QB in the league right now I would rather have the Stafford.  Brady and Big Ben are HOFers, but are on their last legs.  Rodgers and Ryan are probably a bit better, but you have to love Stafford's toughness.  His forth quarter heroics are second to none.  His pocket awareness and scrambling is top notch. He is not quite in the elite group yet, but he keeps moving closer.  

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No fine for OBJ on the hit in my feed today. From the stands it was pretty clear he should have been flagged. ‘nufced

Davis is a bit undersized for ILB but his strengths are explosive quickness & agility. Great athlete.

PFF had Slay at #2 two years ago, 19th last year. He’s back to elite & should make his first pro bowl.

Falcons are missing their RT and best defender. Tremendous speed on both sides of the ball, weapons that can expose the Lions LBs. They’re where the Lions want to be.

Quinn has kept only 18 of the 53 players he inherited. No hesitation to cut players he drafted or signed; he does what’s best for the franchise. If it was mistake, cut ‘em, move forward - his ego is not in play. They made the playoffs in his first year, then had the 11th most roster turnover in the NFL according to a study that accounts for weighted average of personnel, starts, & snaps.

Gruden is ridiculous in gushing over people but watching the condensed replay I heard him say it best: “He’s not just getting different players, he’s getting better players.”

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For decades this franchise was the worst run franchise in the NFL and in the running for all of the major sports.  Really pathetic, except for having a couple of elite RB's in Billy Sims (underrated IMO) and Barry Sanders and a bit of fun with the run-n-shoot offense.  We have finally turned the corner on that and have some good people making decisions and now has put out an actual really good football team out there.

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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

Except when he hasn't.  Cooter was a great choice - big fan.  Offense has been really good since Cooter took over.

The defense is playing well too.  So he has both defense and offense playing well.  He has taken a relatively talent-less team to the playoffs in 2 of his 3 years.  Not seeing where the bad job he has done since he has been here.  

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53 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Caldwell signed an extension.  Congrats Detroit!

That’s outstanding.

FWIW - The deal was originally reached months ago. Ever heard of a team/coach sitting on that news?

Coach’s players respect him, and they play hard for him. He has the best 50 game start of any Lions coach in the Super Bowl era. That should be rewarded. 

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

That’s outstanding.

FWIW - The deal was originally reached months ago. Ever heard of a team/coach sitting on that news?

Coach’s players respect him, and they play hard for him. He has the best 50 game start of any Lions coach in the Super Bowl era. That should be rewarded. 

Translation:  He was above .500.  

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2 hours ago, jon_mx said:

The defense is playing well too.  So he has both defense and offense playing well.  He has taken a relatively talent-less team to the playoffs in 2 of his 3 years.  Not seeing where the bad job he has done since he has been here.  

He has 29 wins as Lions HC, but very few against .500+ teams. Maybe that's the best most coaches could do with the Lions roster. He is not doing a bad job, and the players like playing for him. But he hasn't really accomplished anything special here. He'll get you to the playoffs in seasons with an easy schedule, then lose in the first round. Fortunately, this year offered up another soft schedule. But if the Lions can't win the division, like they should have last season, then it's not going to matter.

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

Translation:  He was above .500.  

Since their last championship in 1957, only two coaches could claim that: Joe Schmidt & Jim Caldwell. Or put another way, after Schmidt quit after the 1972 season, the Lions hired 12 consecutive Head Coaches who compiled a losing record. 

Moeller went 4-3 as interim coach

I started rooting for the Lions in Kindergarten. Schmidt was a rookie HC, only two years removed from his HoF playing career. Lem Barney and Mel Farr were defensive and offensive rookies of the year. It's a shame I started rooting for them in 1967, if it had been another year maybe i wouldn't have been hooked for life.

Their playoff record in my lifetime is 1-12. 

Caldwell is at .580 through 50 games, a winning percentage exceeded by only Buddy Parker in the last 79 years.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

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13 hours ago, TwinTurbo said:

He has 29 wins as Lions HC, but very few against .500+ teams. Maybe that's the best most coaches could do with the Lions roster. He is not doing a bad job, and the players like playing for him. But he hasn't really accomplished anything special here. He'll get you to the playoffs in seasons with an easy schedule, then lose in the first round. Fortunately, this year offered up another soft schedule. But if the Lions can't win the division, like they should have last season, then it's not going to matter.

This may shock you, but many (more than half) head coaches are going to have losing records against .500+ teams.  Math and stuff.

Edited by matuski
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3 hours ago, matuski said:

This may shock you, but many (more than half) head coaches are going to have losing records against .500+ teams.  Math and stuff.

No this is much worse than that. As Lions HC, Caldwell has almost no wins against teams that finish with a winning record. That said, this team isn't very talented. But my point was that he racks up the wins against lesser teams and fails miserably against teams over .500. 

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LBs getting exposed. Painfully obvious that Davis is not playing. Reeves is not capable of big minutes yet. It looks like it will be the difference in this game unless they can scheme it better at the half.

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  • Da Guru changed the title to DETROIT LIONS 2021: Lions Draft: Draft a QB or the best kneecap biter?

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