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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (36 Viewers)

msudaisy26 said:
It would depend on the coach, as much as I love Bell and as good as he is, I think his patient style wouldn't work with some coaches philosophy. 
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Tongue in cheek, he’ll likely get tagged.

ETA:even if they don’t franchise him again, it’s not a good use of cap space - he’s looking for 4/$60M with half of it guaranteed.

 
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Ziggy came to play today... Not sure what was up with him earlier this year, playing hurt maybe?  I don't think we can let him walk though!

 
How about Arians if he is out in AZ? Offensive guy with a decent rack record. If not for so many injuries to key players I think he could have done something with the Cardinals. 

 
The Captain said:
How about Arians if he is out in AZ? Offensive guy with a decent rack record. If not for so many injuries to key players I think he could have done something with the Cardinals. 
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i don't think Arians is getting canned. if he leaves AZ it's because of health reasons, right? 

 
red stripe said:
Ziggy came to play today... Not sure what was up with him earlier this year, playing hurt maybe?  I don't think we can let him walk though!
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least impactful 10 sack season in history?

ETA: straight out of Statpadford's book. Three 3 sack games and disappeared for the other twelve.

 
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Here are some quick observations from what could prove to be Caldwell's last stand in Detroit:

-- A lean couple of weeks left Golden Tate needing 101 yards to reach 1,000 on the season. And not only did he do it, but he did it in style, racing through the defense for a 71-yard touchdown that gave Detroit a 27-3 lead late in the third quarter. He teamed up with Marvin Jones to become the first Lions teammates to crack 1,000 yards since he and Calvin Johnson did it in 2014. It has only happened five other times in franchise history: Herman Moore/Brett Perriman (1995-96), Moore/Johnnie Morton (1997), Morton/Germaine Crowell (1999) and Roy Williams/Mike Furrey (2006).

-- With seven catches, Tate also pushed past 90 for the fourth time in as many seasons in Detroit. He's the first player in franchise history with four straight 90-catch seasons, and just the seventh in NFL history.

-- Not to be outdone, rookie Kenny Golladay chipped in 80 yards on two catches, 54 of which came on a touchdown grab in the first half. He finishes the season with five catches of at least 40 yards. Only one man has had more in Detroit since 2000, and that man is Calvin Johnson. And Golladay did it while operating behind two 1,000-yard recievers. Throw in Matthew Stafford, and the Lions have an offensive nucleus that should make them one of the hottest coaching jobs out there should Caldwell be fired as expected.

-- The Ezekiel Ansah question is one of the biggest facing Bob Quinn this offseason. Ansah, whose contract expires in March, racked up three more sacks against Green Bay. That gives him 12 for the season, the second-best output of his career. But anyone actually watching these games knows how misleading that is. He was just occupying space for most of the season. Nine of his sacks came in three games. He had just three in Detroit's other 13 games. So which is it? Is Ansah still a dominant pass rusher who was just slowed by injury the last two years? Or is he now a shell of himself who will occasionally remind of the player he once was? That's why they pay Bob Quinn the big bucks.

-- Teez Tabor was among four rookies who were playing on the field together in the first quarter, along with Jarrad Davis, Jamal Agnew and Jalen Reeves-Maybin. That's nearly half the defense, populated by rookies. But Quandre Diggs put an early end to that, spearing Tabor in the arm. Tabor left the game and did not return because of an arm injury. 

-- The Lions rolled with a lot of Davis and Reeves-Maybin in the second half, a possible sneak preview of the starting linebackers in 2018. Tahir Whitehead, the usual starter at weak-side linebacker, is due to become a free agent. But Whitehead deserves credit for bouncing back from a disastrous 2016 season, too. He recovered his fourth fumble of the season against Green Bay.

-- Glover Quin forced the fumble that Whitehead recovered. His line for the season: Four fumbles forced, one fumble recovered, three interceptions and one touchdown. Not a bad season. Not bad at all. Some might even call it a Pro Bowl season. 

-- Matthew Stafford solidified his place as a top-10 quarterback this season with another sharp day. He completed 20 of his 29 passes for 323 yards, three touchdowns and no picks. His 140.4 rating was his best since 2015, actually. Plus he caught that 2-point conversion pass on a beautiful play design by Jim Bob Cooter. The play began with Ameer Abdullah carrying the ball right, before he dished to Golden Tate coming back around on the reverse. And then Tate pulled up and lofted a pass to a wide-open Stafford, who then chucked the ball up into the stands. It was a fun and creative play call, which really begs the question: Where was this kind of thing when the plays actually mattered?

-- Running back Theo Riddick (ribs) and special teams ace Don Carey (knee) both left the game with injuries. Carey's looked particularly serious, and it required help for him to walk gingerly to the locker room. He's not a household name, but he's one of the best gunners in the league, and one of the biggest reasons Detroit has been so good on coverage teams the last couple years. He was named a captain against Green Bay, too. But he also turns 31 in February and can become a free agent in March. It's possible he has played his final game in Detroit.

-- The Lions swept the Packers for the first time since 1991. 
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Pagans is out already.

I’ve read several places the Luons were not expected to announce a move before January 2 out of respect / reverence (by Mrs Ford) for Coach Caldwell.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Pagans is out already.

I’ve read several places the Luons were not expected to announce a move before January 2 out of respect / reverence (by Mrs Ford) for Coach Caldwell.
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Hopefully when they have the press conference they bring 9 men to do it and they do that pass back and forth thing with his final check!

 
msudaisy26 said:
Hopefully when they have the press conference they bring 9 men to do it and they do that pass back and forth thing with his final check!
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Coach, I’m not sure if you or your lawyer noticed article 18, clause C in the Appendum of your extension, but we’re gonna need you to write Mrs Ford a check for your final year.

Oh, and thank you for your service!

 
BobbyLayne said:
We're gonna sweep the division (6-0), loss December road games to BAL TB CIN, then blow out the Pack on NYE to wrap up the #1 seed

#superbowlLII
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- 5-1

- two out of three ain’t bad

- knew we’d smoke the Pack

PM me if you’re looking to start off 2018 by winning the Mega Millions / Power Ball. I’m good at this numbers stuff.  :thumbup:  

 
Out with the old, in with the new. Lions toss out their best coach since at least Fontes. For some value of "best". Not that you came blame them. A part of me wouldn't mind keeping Caldwell in the organization, but not as head coach. Too many little things he missed, too much mediocrity. Plus it's rather refreshing to see the Lions not accept "in the playoff hunt" as not good enough, considering their philosophy with HCs in the past. 

Now to see what the future brings, even if the 2018 schedule doesn't look as immediately bright. Right now it feels like Patricia is inevitable, but never count on the Lions to do what's expected. With Matt Pat, there's a fair chance of keeping JBC, maybe Austin but I'm fearing he'll get a token interview to be promoted to HC and then get tossed... er, I mean, get a chance to pursue other options >.>. 

 
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Rotoworld reporting Lions have requested permission to interview Panthers DC. Don't know anything about him other than that a) he replaced McDermott this year and b) he's black. I hate to be cynical about these things, especially with a franchise that just hired an African American HC, but it's hard not to wonder if he's the Rooney Rule candidate who will allow them to move quickly on Patricia. 

Other candidate RW mentions is Vrabel. I sense a theme here.

 
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Mt. Man said:
Out with the old, in with the new. Lions toss out their best coach since at least Fontes. For some value of "best". Not that you came blame them. A part of me wouldn't mind keeping Caldwell in the organization, but not as head coach. Too many little things he missed, too much mediocrity. Plus it's rather refreshing to see the Lions not accept "in the playoff hunt" as not good enough, considering their philosophy with HCs in the past. 

Now to see what the future brings, even if the 2018 schedule doesn't look as immediately bright. Right now it feels like Patricia is inevitable, but never count on the Lions to do what's expected. With Matt Pat, there's a fair chance of keeping JBC, maybe Austin but I'm fearing he'll get a token interview to be promoted to HC and then get tossed... er, I mean, get a chance to pursue other options >.>. 
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Agree that "in the hunt" is not good enough, but I also remember that Millen came in to an eerily similar situation and proceeded to make us all long for those halcyon days of 9-7. Don't screw this up, Quinn!

As for Austin, I like him and hope he gets another chance at some point, but if the team hires a defensive minded coach, which is the direction they seem to be heading, it's hard to see how he survives. 

 
zftcg said:
Rotoworld reporting Lions have requested permission to interview Panthers DC. Don't know anything about him other than that a) he replaced McDermott this year and b) he's black. I hate to be cynical about these things, especially with a franchise that just hired an African American HC, but it's hard not to wonder if he's the Rooney Rule candidate who will allow them to move quickly on Patricia. 

Other candidate RW mentions is Vrabel. I sense a theme here.
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Patricia seems highly respected. Why would he take the lions job? 

 
I remember when they signed Caldwell saying to myself, after being a fan since birth, "F this, Ford really doesn't want to win." 

Then my adopted team sucked with the wiz.  :(

That was probably overly harsh and Jim had success, but the next signing will be interesting. 

If they sign Vrabel I might have to go back to supporting the team. 

 
Congrats. Firing this bum means you may be able to take the next step. He really made a run yesterday at trying to fool management one more time by coming out and putting up 20 points in the 1st half and blowing out the other team. 1 win vs above 500 teams for 2017. I'm thinking someone in the front office figured this out.

 
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Any HC candidate should want to come to Detroit.  This is not a rebuild with a rookie QB.  When Caldwell was hired this team had talent and Caldwell said it is time to "Win Now"  Caldwell just could not get this team over the hump.  2014 was his best chance with Calvin and Suh..but that was basically Schwartz's team that made the playoffs.  Then the Lions backed into a playoff spot with losses at the end, and two missed playoffs.

This was the year to win the division..Rodgers out, Bears starting a rookie, Viking grabbing Keenum off the street, but the Lions failed to capitalize.

Don`t know much about Patricia but he does not look like a HC..seems like a Rex Ryan type.

Kick the tires on Jack Del Rio?   Maybe we would see his sister Vanessa at the games in Detroit.

 
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Da Guru said:
Any HC candidate should want to come to Detroit.  This is not a rebuild with a rookie QB.  When Caldwell was hired this team had talent and Caldwell said it is time to "Win Now"  Caldwell just could not get this team over the hump.  2014 was his best chance with Calvin and Suh..but that was basically Schwartz's team that made the playoffs.  Then the Lions backed into a playoff spot with losses at the end, and two missed playoffs.

This was the year to win the division..Rodgers out, Bears starting a rookie, Viking grabbing Keenum off the street, but the Lions failed to capitalize.

Don`t know much about Patricia but he does not look like a HC..seems like a Rex Ryan type.
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I agree about Patricia, seems like he's a DC material,not HC ..same with Caldwell, I dont think he's suited for a HC role. I'm worried about Vrabel - not one single former disciple of BB has gone on to do much of anything as a HC - Charlie Weiss, McDaniels, Romeo Crennel, etc..not even a former Pats player has gone on to have success elsewhere..I can't name one of them that has gone on to become a Pro Bowl player on another team..Giants are interviewing Schwartz this week, maybe McDaniels soon too..I hope neither gets the gig..

 
I appreciate Coach Caldwell. He's a good man and I hope he enjoys retirement with his grandkids. We all feel like he could have accomplished more but overall it was a good hire. We had to move on from Schwartz, who couldn't win the division when Rodgers and Cutler were out and the Vikings had a sieve for a defense. Caldwell has really exceptional administrative and organizational skills, I wouldn't mind if they kept him on in some capacity after some time passes.

My opinion on Matt Patricia is not informed by what other coaches in the Belichick tree have accomplished (and everyone always leaves out Saban, Kirk Ferentz, and even O'Brien with a QB carousel - doesn't fit the narrative.) You should evaluate candidates on their individual accomplishment, capacity and potential going forward.

In every organization he has been a part of, Patricia was the driving force in modernizing the analytics, making everyone on the staff more efficient. He has phenomenal work ethic and a high functioning intellect. Not afraid to take chances - left a $100K offer to move into aerospace engineering to chase after his dream by taking a low level $8K college level assistant gig. Played as an undersized offensive lineman and coached offensive positions prior to moving to LBs, DBs and then DC. Called the defensive signals for 3 years before he became the coordinator. Nobody gets more projects piled on him by BB, and he's universally praised by peers and retired players.  

Anyway, as long as the next HC is a capable defensive mind I'll be happy.

 
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Tanner9919 said:
I agree about Patricia, seems like he's a DC material,not HC ..same with Caldwell, I dont think he's suited for a HC role. I'm worried about Vrabel - not one single former disciple of BB has gone on to do much of anything as a HC - Charlie Weiss, McDaniels, Romeo Crennel, etc..not even a former Pats player has gone on to have success elsewhere..I can't name one of them that has gone on to become a Pro Bowl player on another team..Giants are interviewing Schwartz this week, maybe McDaniels soon too..I hope neither gets the gig..
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Lazy post and horrible reason to not hire a  coach. The Lions need to do the research and interview the people and make the correct decision. Remember Bill O'Brien? Plenty of Patriot players have moved on and had success Matt Cassel, Richard Seymour, Chandler Jones all made a pro bowl or were all pro after leaving the Pats just off the top of my head. 

 
Trends are always popular in the copycat league. This year everyone wants to find the next Sean McVey. But if you go through the 32 HCs who started the year, and focus on the more successful ones, there's no secret sauce. A "proven" method was to hire the OC/DC of the SB teams, because of the coaching trees from the days of Walsh, Parcells, and Holmgren. Has been the wrong move more often than not for a long time. Two of the better longtime ones were career a offensive line coach (Reid) and special teams assistant (John Harbaugh) before they became HC. Tomlin was an unknown WRs/DBs coach and everyone thought they were nuts to pick a guy with only one season as DC.

@Da Guru is spot on about this being an attractive opening. There are holes to be filled and problems to be fixed for sure, but when you're starting with a talented big arm QB, good receiver corps, outstanding DBs, and very good Special Teams - with most of the core locked into team control for several years - you're not that far off from building a winner. 

The litmus test is changing the mentality of SOL. Sixty years of futility hangs over this franchise like a dark cloud. But as @zftcg pointed out a few days ago, there is no reason this team can't be the 1972 Steelers or the 2001 Patriots. The Rooney's were cheap and terrible owners for almost four decades - until they weren't anymore. New England had only 18 winning seasons and 5 division titles in their first 41 years.

Your past does not equal your future. 

Happy New Year!  :excited:

 
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Congrats to Lions for showing some balls here and not accepting mediocrity. Things could get worse, that's the risk but I didn't see the upside with staying with Caldwell.

We will learn more about Quinn as we observe how the selection process plays out and who the final choice becomes.

 
Picking 20th in the draft this year. Last year they were 21.

Ansah and Ebron are the big decisions before the new League Year starts in early March. You can make a good case for both retaining them - franchise tag of around $17-18M for the former, $8.25M team option for the latter - and if they don't, slim pickings via FA. Doubtful the draft will yield the same immediate impact as keeping both, but I could see them moving on from either or both.

Priority of needs:

  1. Edge rusher/Edge Setter DE - Ansah and Zettel disappeared too often and they were horrendous at setting the edge on outside runs,
  2. Run stuffer DT - Ngata is done.
  3. OLB - Whitehead is an UFA, Davis and Reeves-Maybin need to continue to progress.
  4. RB - doesn't have to be a high pick or superstar, one cut back with size and moderate speed will suffice. 
Set at QB, three solid options at WR, keep Theo, and of course you always want depth on the O-line and in the defensive backfield. But I think the problems with the former were more scheme & playcalling related (could be wrong, they graded horrible in run blocking and gave up the 2nd most sacks.) But none of these areas feel like they're the one thing holding the team back.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Picking 20th in the draft this year. Last year they were 21.

Ansah and Ebron are the big decisions before the new League Year starts in early March. You can make a good case for both retaining them - franchise tag of around $17-18M for the former, $8.25M team option for the latter - and if they don't, slim pickings via FA. Doubtful the draft will yield the same immediate impact as keeping both, but I could see them moving on from either or both.

Priority of needs:

  1. Edge rusher/Edge Setter DE - Ansah and Zettel disappeared too often and they were horrendous at setting the edge on outside runs,
  2. Run stuffer DT - Ngata is done.
  3. OLB - Whitehead is an UFA, Davis and Reeves-Maybin need to continue to progress.
  4. RB - doesn't have to be a high pick or superstar, one cut back with size and moderate speed will suffice. 
Set at QB, three solid options at WR, keep Theo, and of course you always want depth on the O-line and in the defensive backfield. But I think the problems with the former were more scheme & playcalling related (could be wrong, they graded horrible in run blocking and gave up the 2nd most sacks.) But none of these areas feel like they're the one thing holding the team back.
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Keep Theo as the pass catching backup RB, AA needs to go, I like Zenner but only as a depth/special teams guy. What concerns me is that Lang did not look very good this year coming off hip surgery, and I thought Wagner would be much better. Lot of $$$ invested in those two and they need to perform better.  I was an Ebron basher but have admit he did play well the last 5-6 games to save his job for at least another season.

 
Da Guru said:
Keep Theo as the pass catching backup RB, AA needs to go, I like Zenner but only as a depth/special teams guy. What concerns me is that Lang did not look very good this year coming off hip surgery, and I thought Wagner would be much better. Lot of $$$ invested in those two and they need to perform better.  I was an Ebron basher but have admit he did play well the last 5-6 games to save his job for at least another season.
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Early on the Lions ranked #1 in RZ efficiency & they were effective running to the right side. Then the injuries started piling up - think we had 10-11 combinations for the season? Continuity is always a factor for the O-line, you need a cohesive unit.

Liked what we saw YE from Dahl and Glasgow was probably their most consistent lineman. Hope TJcomes in strong next summer because we need him (plus he’s a great leader off the field.) Hopefully both tackles revert to prior performance. Guess you always want to add depth if you can but I feel like they know who their starters will be for 2018. 

 
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BobbyLayne said:
The litmus test is changing the mentality of SOL. Sixty years of futility hangs over this franchise like a dark cloud. But as @zftcg pointed out a few days ago, there is no reason this team can't be the 1972 Steelers or the 2001 Patriots. The Rooney's were cheap and terrible owners for almost four decades - until they weren't anymore. New England had only 18 winning seasons and 5 division titles in their first 41 years.

Your past does not equal your future. 

Happy New Year!  :excited:
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I think the Bidwills have also improved their image, even if they are nowhere near the Rooneys. My memories of them from childhood were moving the franchise to AZ and being incredibly cheap. I think the son came in and has been much more respected. Not a dynasty by any means, but if 10 years from now the Lions have made a SB appearance and also had a 14-2 season, and have a highly respected HC who goes out on his own terms, you'd have to regard that as a success. (Would also be nice if the HoF WR didn't retire the first chance he got)

 
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-OZ- said:
:lol:

Probably because he thinks he can turn the franchise around and knows how to win. Seriously, he gets them to a super bowl, he's a hero. Win it and the guy is set for life.
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Can’t see any good candidate choosing that gm and ownership. Career suicide.

 
voiceofunreason said:
Can’t see any good candidate choosing that gm and ownership. Career suicide.
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They went 9-7 the last two years. And have a top 10 QB. Not having a QB is BY FAR the biggest obstacle to winning. And yet - that issue is solved in this job. Openings like that don't come around very often.

 
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-OZ- said:
I remember when they signed Caldwell saying to myself, after being a fan since birth, "F this, Ford really doesn't want to win." 

Then my adopted team sucked with the wiz.  :(

That was probably overly harsh and Jim had success, but the next signing will be interesting. 

If they sign Vrabel I might have to go back to supporting the team. 
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Oh, OZ, please don't go!

;)

 
Moonlight said:
Congrats to Lions for showing some balls here and not accepting mediocrity. Things could get worse, that's the risk but I didn't see the upside with staying with Caldwell.

We will learn more about Quinn as we observe how the selection process plays out and who the final choice becomes.
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Quinn was hired to do a job. Do Your Job mentality from the Patriots. Now it's his time. Any of those 2 Patriots coordinators or Vrabel in my humble opinion. I'd be greedy and say get two of them, all three would be out of the question, yet monumental. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
I don’t pay much attention to this stuff, but what’s the best all-time coaching tree? Seems like Parcels Giants staff and Holmgren’s Green Bay staff would be in the conversation. Not sure if it was the same for Bill Walsh’s 49ers.
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"Coaching trees" have always been an inexact shorthand. Walsh begat Holmgren begat Reid. Which one gets credit for Gruden? Also, coaches bounce around so much, you can't necessarily assign them to one "root". I heard an interview with Gase where he talked about how he was mentored by Martz, Saban and then Fox. This WSJ graphic outlines how complicated it all is.

That said, I think Walsh is generally recognized as having the best tree (Holmgren, Wyche, Seifert, Green, Shanahan), although this article says it was Sid Gilman (Chuck Noll, Al Davis, Chuck Knox, **** Vermeil, George Allen and Don Coryell).

 
Da Guru said:
There are many job opening so we will see if Caldwell gets HC interviews with other teams.
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Unless they're high-profile names (Andy Reid, Rex Ryan, John Fox), recently fired coaches rarely move directly to another HC role. When Caldwell got fired from the Colts, he got hired as Ravens QB coach, then got promoted to OC midway through the season, then stayed in that role for another year before getting the Lions job. That's far more typical.

Whatever you think of his performance as HC, Caldwell clearly does possess some valuable coaching skills (plus all of these guys are friends who know that one day they'll get fired themselves and will need someone to hook them up), so I'd be shocked if he didn't latch on somewhere. I could see him getting some kind of assistant HC role with a coach he had previously worked with.

 
Da Guru said:
There are many job opening so we will see if Caldwell gets HC interviews with other teams.
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:lmao:

I was unaware he'll be looking for a job. You planning on looking for work if they let you go in 8 years? Did you quit golf, GB?

"Nobody else hired him so see he really did suck" is a pretty weak argument for a guy who turns 63 in two weeks. Look, I understand how confirmation bias works, but these weak attempts to elevate no-impulse-control Schwartz and denigrate Caldwell are unnecessary. It's OK to admit he did a good job and that it was time for change; they're not incongruent.  

The most successful Lions coach in SB era wasn't good enough.

  • Lions were 32-5 (.865) versus teams at or below .500 in the Caldwell era
  • "We didn't beat the really good teams" - Bob Quinn.
Bingo. 4-23 (.148) versus teams that finished with a winning record, and 0-3 in the playoffs.

It's a measure of how far we've come since the end of Stafford's 2nd season that none of these things matter:

  • back to back to winning seasons for the first time in 22 years
  • 16-8 (.667) versus NFC North opponents - best 4 year division record in team history
  • 3-0 on the road versus division opponents (first time ever)
  • 5-1 versus division ties team record
What matters:

  • No hardware
  • Zero playoff wins
Really enjoyed seeing the way Quinn handled his press conference. Glad they made the decision immediately and lined up two interviews with four more candidates behinds Austin and Shumur. Took full responsibility for the 9-7 teams and made it clear he's in charge. Wood will participate in the interview process and they'll keep Martha informed but it was his call to fire the HC and his call on who the next coach will be. What he's looking for per the press conference:

  • could be an offensive or defensive background candidate (though the candidates are all defensive guys except for Shumur)
  • familiarity will be a factor, could help (as expected - have to think Patricia and Vrabel score highest here)
  • offensive scheme won't matter, Stafford can make all the throws. Glad he stated this explicitly. It was a bit unusual for Matthew to lobby for JBC but I like that they've made it clear this isn't the NBA, stars don't dictate to the team who to hire.
  • JBC is not part of the hiring process. Focus is on finding the best HC, we'll worry about the OC and the QB later.
  • Leadership was the first quality he brought up. Have to change the culture.
  • Previous HC experience helpful but not a prereq (don't think any of the 5-6 candidates have been a HC but have to research it - have not contacted Pats about McDaniel yet)
  • Would consider college coaches (I don't believe this)
  • Wants a coach with a strong personality. Said the relationship between the HC and the GM is the most important working relationship in the organization
A lot of that is pretty standard, generic stuff, but I like the way Quinn handles himself. I like that he was well prepared to make the move and acted quickly to get into the hiring cycle.

 
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