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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Dave Williams? Think the record was broken but that was the quickest OT in NFL history for a long time.
Today was glorious. Didn't hear much of the broadcast as I was busy hosting 16 out of towners but hell every time I looked Stafford was throwing a TD or Ziggy was getting another sack. Saw Joique's long catch & run. Awesome they gave it to him again for the TD. He's been a dog all year but he's good people, happy for him.
Don't want to think about the implications of them continuing to win. Just enjoy the day. I'll watch the rewind this weekend. Just an everything went right for them kind of game, happy for the players & fans.
Today was glorious. Didn't hear much of the broadcast as I was busy hosting 16 out of towners but hell every time I looked Stafford was throwing a TD or Ziggy was getting another sack. Saw Joique's long catch & run. Awesome they gave it to him again for the TD. He's been a dog all year but he's good people, happy for him.
Don't want to think about the implications of them continuing to win. Just enjoy the day. I'll watch the rewind this weekend. Just an everything went right for them kind of game, happy for the players & fans.
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TartanLion
Footballguy
Well I watched parts of this on my laptop in various locations last night - hotel, bar etc etc. Great to see the offence open up. Really liked the play that saw Tate literally walk into the end zone. My only annoyance was that I got the time of the game wrong and had been considering plugging Stafford and Tate in from the WW only to log on here and discover the game had started 5 mins prior. Difficult keeping track of starting times on a special day of football when you are usually 5 hours ahead but then 6 ahead when in Certain parts of Europe.
Can't wait to watch the whole thing back. Gonna enjoy the wins but it's looking like we will play our way out of one of the top two OTs in the draft.
Can't wait to watch the whole thing back. Gonna enjoy the wins but it's looking like we will play our way out of one of the top two OTs in the draft.
Detroit Revival
Footballguy
One team with a winning record, and we already beat them at home!!! I want to believe.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Maybe an exaggeration, but yeah, thats what I've been thinking for most of the season. Hope we invest in some talented O-line people in the draft ala Dallas
jurb26
Footballguy
He has moments of terrible lapses, but when he's not getting slammed to the ground every other snap, yeah he's been pretty good.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It's hard to evaluate how good your team or players are when you're stomping on a team that has mentally checked out.
Playing for pride. I'd much rather see the effort in vain "screwing up the draft slot" than packing it in.
One of the two sacks came late. I think in the first half the Eagles had two hurries, one hit,no one sacks. When Stafford gets smacked 10-12 times a game (regardless of how many times they get there) Matthew gets jittery. He was very relaxed yesterday. Fun to watch when he is on.
Cooter has made Tate relevant again. Not sure how Moore's status is but they are woefully thin at WR.
Ansah was on fire yesterday. From the little I saw it didn't seem like they blitzed much - that's huge when you can drop 7 and still get pressure.
Playing for pride. I'd much rather see the effort in vain "screwing up the draft slot" than packing it in.
One of the two sacks came late. I think in the first half the Eagles had two hurries, one hit,
Cooter has made Tate relevant again. Not sure how Moore's status is but they are woefully thin at WR.
Ansah was on fire yesterday. From the little I saw it didn't seem like they blitzed much - that's huge when you can drop 7 and still get pressure.
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TartanLion
Footballguy
Again - totally agree. Do not want to see us move on from Stafford and start afresh at all. I think Baltimore and Flacco are a reasonable comparison. They won a Superbowl with a QB of perhaps similar standing by having a good management structure, good coaches and by building talent in the correct areas.
Mt. Man
Footballguy
There's actually a chance (Cue Dumb & Dumber clip) that they make the playoffs at 9-7, with the mess that is the NFL this season.
But yeah, even if they finish at, say, 6-10, it feels like Caldwell has Fontes'd his way into another season.
Personally I'm happy if they keep winning. Maybe if I had much confidence that the people drafting wouldn't be the Martha's Backpocket squad of White and Wood, I'd feel differently.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Been a busy work for me with guests flying in, missed the Accorsi hire:
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/11/25/detroit-lions-ernie-accorsi/76382510/
He was the Giants GM the first 8-9 years I lived here. Out of all the people Development Advisory Panel, would have been my first choice.
Doesn't mean Martha and her girls will listen to him, but I would be
The Captain
Footballguy
Im trying to enjoy the winning and I don't mind them screwing up the draft pick. What concerns me is the hiring of the GM. There is a real possibility that Martha and the Trust Fund Kids will ignore any advice from outside counsel and hire from within. Sheldon White is blowing so much smoke up Martha's a$$ and if she's anything like her husband she will eat that up. My hope is that she's smart enough to realize that White has had nothing to with the winning streak.
The other problem with winning is that the Fords could mandate that a new GM must keep Caldwell, which will likely eliminate any real candidates.
My greatest fear is the Fords will continue to set the bar at mediocre and a season like last years 11-5 playoff team will be the best we can hope for every few years. Hiring Sheldon White would prove this to be true, IMO.
Seekay
Footballguy
It is funny to see people jumping back on the Stafford bandwagon now.
Maybe the offense before was too bland. Lombardi wasnt a good OC.
You might want to go back and re-watch some of those first couple of games. Once again he played like a deer in headlights. A rookie.. No line adjustments to pick up blitzers. You never saw him pointing out possible blitzing linebackers to the line.
Brady was give hit over and over Monday night and he didn't lose the game for his team throwing up 3-4 picks.
Once again Stafford is more of a thrower then a QB. Oh sure when everything clicks he is great. But like in baseball the truly great pitchers can win when they dont have their good stuff. When things are not going well for Stafford it's like his brain shuts off. That type of guy is not going to get you to a super bowl.
Maybe the offense before was too bland. Lombardi wasnt a good OC.
You might want to go back and re-watch some of those first couple of games. Once again he played like a deer in headlights. A rookie.. No line adjustments to pick up blitzers. You never saw him pointing out possible blitzing linebackers to the line.
Brady was give hit over and over Monday night and he didn't lose the game for his team throwing up 3-4 picks.
Once again Stafford is more of a thrower then a QB. Oh sure when everything clicks he is great. But like in baseball the truly great pitchers can win when they dont have their good stuff. When things are not going well for Stafford it's like his brain shuts off. That type of guy is not going to get you to a super bowl.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Pretty sure the 3-4 complimentary remarks all contained caveats. He's good when he has time, and and with this o-line that has been rare.
Seekay
Footballguy
I am pretty sure just about every QB in the league is better statically when they have time to throw the ball. Once again it's about what the QB can do or get out of the offense when things are not going well.
Cam Newton has elevated his game this year with a patch work receiving core. Do you ever see Stafford taking that step up? His production relies way too much on others performing well.
jurb26
Footballguy
No QB plays well behind terrible olines. Car has actually protected Cam very well. WR troubles are nothing compared to oline troubles.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Been watching the rewind this morning [ 
there's a reason I always work the Friday after Thanksgiving ], and I really liked that call on the 1st TD to CJ. Stafford said Cooter started to call all slants on that 3rd & long from the 25 then said "Aw ####it let's run 4 deep & go for it." Stafford [with time, Seekay] threw it flat after pumping to keep the safety in the middle. One of many throws he made yesterday where he put it where his guy could get it or it'd be incomplete.
Honor roll, courtesy of PFF:
What a game. The Detroit Lions made it look easy against the Eagles, and it was a sight to behold. From Golden Tate's walk, to Ziggy Ansah's turkey dance, it was an extremely fun and entertaining game. Who cares about draft position when you can cheer on your favorite team and watch them finally win some games? Let's take a closer look at the individual performances from Thursday's game.
OffenseBest Grades
Matthew Stafford: +6.8
Calvin Johnson: +4.5
Larry Warford: +3.1
Riley Reiff: +2.3
Theo Riddick: +2.2
Laken Tomlinson: +1.7
Michael Ola: +1.1
Joique Bell: +1.0
Worst Grades
Brandon Pettigrew: -2.1
Travis Swanson: -1.3
Analysis
Guys. A +6.8 overall grade for a QB is insanely high. If it holds up, it would be PFF's fourth-highest QB grade given out on the season. It would be Stafford's fourth-highest grade of his career. Give all of the credit in the world to Stafford for hanging in there after a rough start to the season. He was throwing darts into tight windows and looked like the Stafford that fans have wanted to see all year. A ton of credit goes to the offensive line as well.
Four of the Lions' five offensive line starters had an overall grade of +1.1 or higher. Travis Swanson earned the only negative grade from Thursday's game and is now ranked 30th out of 36 centers via PFF.
Brandon Pettigrew has also been struggling and has earned a -2.0 grade or worse in three straight games. The stars are starting to align for him, and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that he'll be a Lion next year.
Michael Ola has been decent. That's a major upgrade over what we've seen at the right tackle position earlier in the year.
Calvin Johnson is still great at catching footballs.
Defense
Best Grades
Ezekiel Ansah: +5.9
Tahir Whitehead: +4.6
Devin Taylor: +2.3
Isa Abdul-Quddus: +2.2
Jason Jones: +1.9
Darius Slay: +1.5
Worst Grades
Stephen Tulloch: -1.7
Glover Quin: -1.2
Analysis
Ziggy has been on a tear lately and is now tied with J.J. Watt for leading the NFL with 11.5 sacks. His +5.9 pass-rushing grade is the highest of his NFL career.
Tahir Whitehead earned positive grades in run defense (+1.7), pass coverage (+1.9) and even as a pass rusher (+0.9). He dominated on just 35 snaps and earned the highest grade of his career.
Jason Jones has quietly had easily his best season as a Detroit Lion. He hasn't been outstanding, but he hasn't been a liability either.
I'd also like to give a shoutout to Isa Abdul-Quddus, who has been mentioned in 'Best Grades' for three straight weeks now...
Special Teams
Best Grades
Sam Martin: +2.1
Worst Grades
None
Analysis
After Thursday's performance, PFF has Martin graded as the seventh-best punter in the NFL, with a +15.5 overall grad
http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2015/11/27/9805502/lions-eagles-pff-grades-thanksgiving-miracle
Would like to see them sit Swanson and give Ramirez the job. He's been their most consistent offensive lineman filling in at a few different positions and has played center in the past.
there's a reason I always work the Friday after Thanksgiving ], and I really liked that call on the 1st TD to CJ. Stafford said Cooter started to call all slants on that 3rd & long from the 25 then said "Aw ####it let's run 4 deep & go for it." Stafford [with time, Seekay] threw it flat after pumping to keep the safety in the middle. One of many throws he made yesterday where he put it where his guy could get it or it'd be incomplete.Honor roll, courtesy of PFF:
What a game. The Detroit Lions made it look easy against the Eagles, and it was a sight to behold. From Golden Tate's walk, to Ziggy Ansah's turkey dance, it was an extremely fun and entertaining game. Who cares about draft position when you can cheer on your favorite team and watch them finally win some games? Let's take a closer look at the individual performances from Thursday's game.
OffenseBest Grades
Matthew Stafford: +6.8
Calvin Johnson: +4.5
Larry Warford: +3.1
Riley Reiff: +2.3
Theo Riddick: +2.2
Laken Tomlinson: +1.7
Michael Ola: +1.1
Joique Bell: +1.0
Worst Grades
Brandon Pettigrew: -2.1
Travis Swanson: -1.3
Analysis
Guys. A +6.8 overall grade for a QB is insanely high. If it holds up, it would be PFF's fourth-highest QB grade given out on the season. It would be Stafford's fourth-highest grade of his career. Give all of the credit in the world to Stafford for hanging in there after a rough start to the season. He was throwing darts into tight windows and looked like the Stafford that fans have wanted to see all year. A ton of credit goes to the offensive line as well.
Four of the Lions' five offensive line starters had an overall grade of +1.1 or higher. Travis Swanson earned the only negative grade from Thursday's game and is now ranked 30th out of 36 centers via PFF.
Brandon Pettigrew has also been struggling and has earned a -2.0 grade or worse in three straight games. The stars are starting to align for him, and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that he'll be a Lion next year.
Michael Ola has been decent. That's a major upgrade over what we've seen at the right tackle position earlier in the year.
Calvin Johnson is still great at catching footballs.
Defense
Best Grades
Ezekiel Ansah: +5.9
Tahir Whitehead: +4.6
Devin Taylor: +2.3
Isa Abdul-Quddus: +2.2
Jason Jones: +1.9
Darius Slay: +1.5
Worst Grades
Stephen Tulloch: -1.7
Glover Quin: -1.2
Analysis
Ziggy has been on a tear lately and is now tied with J.J. Watt for leading the NFL with 11.5 sacks. His +5.9 pass-rushing grade is the highest of his NFL career.
Tahir Whitehead earned positive grades in run defense (+1.7), pass coverage (+1.9) and even as a pass rusher (+0.9). He dominated on just 35 snaps and earned the highest grade of his career.
Jason Jones has quietly had easily his best season as a Detroit Lion. He hasn't been outstanding, but he hasn't been a liability either.
I'd also like to give a shoutout to Isa Abdul-Quddus, who has been mentioned in 'Best Grades' for three straight weeks now...
Special Teams
Best Grades
Sam Martin: +2.1
Worst Grades
None
Analysis
After Thursday's performance, PFF has Martin graded as the seventh-best punter in the NFL, with a +15.5 overall grad
http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2015/11/27/9805502/lions-eagles-pff-grades-thanksgiving-miracle
Would like to see them sit Swanson and give Ramirez the job. He's been their most consistent offensive lineman filling in at a few different positions and has played center in the past.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
It was tough to get a good read on yesterdays game. It looked like the Eagles came out with zero emotion and even when only down by one score seemed to quit. The body language late in the first quarter told the tale..all were just sitting on the bench shaking their heads. When a defense quits and plays without any kind of intensity it turns into a "Pro-Bowl" type of game. No pass rush, no much hitting, just waiting for the game to end.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Agreed.
On the other hand, we just saw a 1-7 team win in Lambeau, shut down the #6 passing attack, and a third straight outstanding defensive effort yesterday.
I'd split the difference. Yesterday was the only good offensive game during this stretch, so I'm willing to chalk that up to Philly quitting. But given Austin's track record and three straight strong defensive performances, I think it's fair to say they're getting back to (though not matching) what made them so strong last year
Seekay
Footballguy
Last year Russell Wilson was sacked more times then Matt Stafford... yet Seattle went to the Super Bowl. Oh wait.. yes, it was all about their defense. Well, wasnt the Lions defense one of the top defenses most of last year?
This year KC, Clev, Seattle, Miami, Tennessee's QBs have been sacked more times then Lions QBs. Yet they all have a better QB rating then Lions QBs.
So if how many times a QB get sacked dictates how well he plays then this is just mind blowing cause it dont make sense.
So if you are giving Stafford a free pass because of the line play this season. What's his excuse for his career? His ugly winning percentage against winning teams. An even uglier one against winning teams on the road.
That's the problem with this team and it's fan base. Settling for minimal results.
This year KC, Clev, Seattle, Miami, Tennessee's QBs have been sacked more times then Lions QBs. Yet they all have a better QB rating then Lions QBs.
So if how many times a QB get sacked dictates how well he plays then this is just mind blowing cause it dont make sense.
So if you are giving Stafford a free pass because of the line play this season. What's his excuse for his career? His ugly winning percentage against winning teams. An even uglier one against winning teams on the road.
That's the problem with this team and it's fan base. Settling for minimal results.
Seekay
Footballguy
Seems every time I watch the Pathers play this year they talk about Cam maturing.. being more of a leader. The improvement he has made in his audibling and reading the defense. It's funny cause I dont hear these things about Stafford but i guess its the OL fault.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I'm just gonna presume you started reading the thread this week.
jurb26
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Bars still close around 2 a.m. in Michigan? Makes perfect sense.You're not making any sense.
matuski
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
One thing Cooter is doing that helps Stafford a lot is having him in the shotgun more. He's never been great at pre-snap reads and struggles getting through his progressions when is under center & has to turn his back to drop back.
Two other noticeable changes: simplified protection, and far more aggressive play calling.
Lombardi's pass blocking schemes were way too complex. Check this out:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/29/sack-by-sack-breakdown-of-lions-week-7-o-line-disaster/
Three people lost their jobs over that. Just absurdly intricate.
On the 3rd & 17 from the 25 right before the half, the announcer (Simms?) said "I expect them to be very conservative here, take the FG (would have made it 20-7), they get the ball to start the second half." Jim Bob started to call for all slants, stopped himself, and went with four deep routes. Stafford hit Johnson after looking off the safety for CJ's 1st TD. Does anyone doubt Lombardi would have run a delay or a short pattern?
Two other noticeable changes: simplified protection, and far more aggressive play calling.
Lombardi's pass blocking schemes were way too complex. Check this out:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/29/sack-by-sack-breakdown-of-lions-week-7-o-line-disaster/
Three people lost their jobs over that. Just absurdly intricate.
On the 3rd & 17 from the 25 right before the half, the announcer (Simms?) said "I expect them to be very conservative here, take the FG (would have made it 20-7), they get the ball to start the second half." Jim Bob started to call for all slants, stopped himself, and went with four deep routes. Stafford hit Johnson after looking off the safety for CJ's 1st TD. Does anyone doubt Lombardi would have run a delay or a short pattern?
Seekay
Footballguy
There is this neat little option on this forum which allows you to scroll back and read older posts. I might not live here like you, but I been here.
Seekay
Footballguy
Of course not stats and cold hard facts usually dont when you are drunk on Lions kool aid.
Seekay
Footballguy
Problem is a QB's arm strength does not equal success. Ask Jay Cutler. You need something upstairs more so then a cannon arm. Joe Montana and Tom Brady dont have cannon arms.
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Seekay
Footballguy
Why go to a bar when BobbyLayne passes out the Lions Kool aid here daily. I can't wait until the next Caldwell Presser so you can break it down and get us all fired up over his comments.Bars still close around 2 a.m. in Michigan? Makes perfect sense.
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Seekay
Footballguy
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lions-qb-matthew-stafford-can-t-dodge-volley-of-criticism-if-he-falters-in-playoffs-051155997.html
So prior to this season...
"Since he arrived in the Motor City, Stafford's Lions are 3-31 against teams that finish with a winning record. They are 0-17 against those teams on the road. Eleven wins is the mark of a good team, but that new 0-for is a warning that Stafford can only get the Lions so far."
Like I said facts dont lie. I dont care how drunk you are on the Kool Aid.
Lombardi wasnt here all those years.
Fine another scapegoat.
So prior to this season...
"Since he arrived in the Motor City, Stafford's Lions are 3-31 against teams that finish with a winning record. They are 0-17 against those teams on the road. Eleven wins is the mark of a good team, but that new 0-for is a warning that Stafford can only get the Lions so far."
Like I said facts dont lie. I dont care how drunk you are on the Kool Aid.
Lombardi wasnt here all those years.
Fine another scapegoat.
kegger
Footballguy
Seekay we get it, you feel Stafford is crap will never amount to anything based on all your analysis. Cheers!
There are plenty of others, myself included that feel Stafford IS A GOOD QB. (watched every game he's played)
No Lions slappy homer here, Pretty much every year I call out the record as being 8-8 at the best as the year starts.
(just saying I'm a realistic Lions fan and call it as I see it)
The teams Stafford has been on in the NFL along with basically no coaching has lead to where he is today, still room to grow and improve with solid coaching.
If he was let go right now, 3/4 of the league would come scrambling to try an sign him. (and he's still quite young despite the time he has spent in this league)
He's a good QB with skills, that needs to improve which I believe any decent coaching will push him in that direction..
There are plenty of others, myself included that feel Stafford IS A GOOD QB. (watched every game he's played)
No Lions slappy homer here, Pretty much every year I call out the record as being 8-8 at the best as the year starts.
(just saying I'm a realistic Lions fan and call it as I see it)
The teams Stafford has been on in the NFL along with basically no coaching has lead to where he is today, still room to grow and improve with solid coaching.
If he was let go right now, 3/4 of the league would come scrambling to try an sign him. (and he's still quite young despite the time he has spent in this league)
He's a good QB with skills, that needs to improve which I believe any decent coaching will push him in that direction..
TartanLion
Footballguy
Stafford's road record against winning teams is obviously dreadful as alluded to, but simply throwing the stat up there as an emblem to beat him with and lay 100% blame on him is overtly simplistic and beneath the level of conversation that is in this thread for the main. Embedded in that record are games such as Seattle on the road this year, or even Dallas in the playoffs last year. Tell me - what did Stafford do wrong when he took us up the entire field in clutch right at the end of the Seattle game ?
Nobody on here is drinking Stafford kool aid. Most of the posts are reasoned and self aware of his flaws. Seekay's 'anti-kool aid' posts are the closest you'll find to biased rhetoric with a clear pre-formed agenda in this thread.
Nobody on here is drinking Stafford kool aid. Most of the posts are reasoned and self aware of his flaws. Seekay's 'anti-kool aid' posts are the closest you'll find to biased rhetoric with a clear pre-formed agenda in this thread.
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jurb26
Footballguy
Seekay
Footballguy
I would not say 3/4 the league would attempt to pick him up as he would want a good chunk of change and not all teams can afford to waste that on "ability" alone.
So in your mind you feel Stafford has done all he could possibly to improve his game over the years he has been in the league and its the coaching staff who failed him...
I hate to say it but I just dont see that Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rogers.. leadership or intensity on or off the field. He has cut back on the side arm throws.. but then again that seems to be a result of Lombardi's doing since he was OC,
The guy everyone here wants to put 100% blame on.
I am not saying Lombardi was the right hire. I am not saying he was a good OC.I just think it's funny once again people are giving Stafford a pass and making someone else the scapegoat.
Seekay
Footballguy
That is really untrue.. lol. If that was the case then Aaaron Rogers would be taking a lot more sacks then Matt Stafford every year. Seattle's offensive line pass block as been as bad if not worse then the Lions the last two years.
Seekay
Footballguy
Ooooh I can play this game too. Nor did I say you said arm strength.
Best arm in the league what does that get you? Kapernick has a better "arm" then 85% of the QBs in this league cant read pass coverage.
QB position is just not lining up and using 100% of your talent. It's more mental then most positions in football. So if your QB is not learning or improving on his trait... then he will not improve. Stafford's stats over the years have not show any improvement from year to year.
He relied on throwing the ball up deep to Calvin in double and triple teams. Now Lombardi tried to make him a more complete QB buy using all his receivers and he failed. Lombardi also failed at his playing calling..
But Stafford early in his career was never "forced" into being a complete QB cause he depending on throwing the ball to the best WR in the league.
Say instead of Calvin Lions had Amendola all those years.. you think Stafford's numbers would of looked the same? Hardly
He might be a better QB now for it.. but wouldnt of had the gaudy numbers from Calvin's presence.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He's clearly just trying to fish for responses. Just let him fade away.
Seekay
Footballguy
I didnt write the article I just posted the link. I dont work for Yahoo but thanks for the credit.
