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529 College Savings Plans (1 Viewer)

whitem0nkey

Footballguy
So I wanted to open up an account for my 8 month old daughter. but so many options not sure what plan is best.

Is Vangaurd a good place to use? or should I go to my local bank?

 
I asked a friend of mine who works in stocks and this is what he said.

Stay away from the 529 plan and just open a savings account.. When she hit’s 7 years old take the money from the savings and put it into a ROTH IRAA 529 plan must be used for college and I believe if you open the account in Illinois then the 529 plan funds can only be used for Illinois college tuition. The plan got beat up before because the securities within the plan went down and tuitions went up thus screwing all those currently holding the 529 plan.
 
I used the state-sponsored 529 plan (link) because it offered a state tax break. I started my boy's plan after he was born and it's done okay.

 
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savingforcollege.com is pretty much recognized as the resource for college savings. Should have all the info you need there.

 
I asked a friend of mine who works in stocks and this is what he said.

Stay away from the 529 plan and just open a savings account.. When she hit’s 7 years old take the money from the savings and put it into a ROTH IRAA 529 plan must be used for college and I believe if you open the account in Illinois then the 529 plan funds can only be used for Illinois college tuition. The plan got beat up before because the securities within the plan went down and tuitions went up thus screwing all those currently holding the 529 plan.
I haven't opened one for my daughters yet, but from what I remember. The money can be used for anything "college" related, so books, computers, rent, not just for tuiton. If the kid does not go to college the fund can be re-appointed to another kid/grandkid or you can take out they money you put in without a fee (the interest would be taxable or hit iwth a fee). I also believe that the kid can go to any college, the state aspect is just what state gets to make interest off you. You can put the money in the Nevada 529 for instance if you thought that was better managed. Like Saintfool said, if you stay instate with the money you might get a state income tax break on it.
 
I asked a friend of mine who works in stocks and this is what he said.

Stay away from the 529 plan and just open a savings account.. When she hit’s 7 years old take the money from the savings and put it into a ROTH IRAA 529 plan must be used for college and I believe if you open the account in Illinois then the 529 plan funds can only be used for Illinois college tuition. The plan got beat up before because the securities within the plan went down and tuitions went up thus screwing all those currently holding the 529 plan.
I haven't opened one for my daughters yet, but from what I remember. The money can be used for anything "college" related, so books, computers, rent, not just for tuiton. If the kid does not go to college the fund can be re-appointed to another kid/grandkid or you can take out they money you put in without a fee (the interest would be taxable or hit iwth a fee). I also believe that the kid can go to any college, the state aspect is just what state gets to make interest off you. You can put the money in the Nevada 529 for instance if you thought that was better managed. Like Saintfool said, if you stay instate with the money you might get a state income tax break on it.
I also read how you can buy college credits at today's price, and they can use them when they are in college 18 years from now or when ever they go.
 
I opted not to go with Illinois for 529, if only cause the tax break is pretty minor. If you invest $100 and hypothetically earn 5% or $5 in a year, the tax break on that is $0.25. When I set mine up, the state income tax rate was 3%. In either case, it's not huge.

I also think that there's some people out out there that think if the kid doesn't go to college, you lose that money. While you may not benefit from the taxes fully and lose some opportunity cost, you don't really lose any money.

 
Yeah don't listen to that friend. Research yourself on what your state benefits, tax breaks are, etc. You don't have to be in the same state as the fund (for example I use BlackRock's Ohio Plan and I live in PA) and my kids wouldn't have to go to Ohio schools.

 
i have been looking at the va 529 but not sure which one to choose

va offers a tax break

from what i hear 529 is the best of the best when it comes to saving for college

 
savingforcollege.com is pretty much recognized as the resource for college savings. Should have all the info you need there.
thanks for the site, lots off stuff.
I'm not seeing the info about the best plans. They have a Top 10 in performance, but that's just market performance. I'd be more interested to see which plans provide the best benefits / lowest costs.
 
I also saw some people say use Vanguard, instead of my local bank to set it up as they have the less over head and can offer better returns.

 
I also saw some people say use Vanguard, instead of my local bank to set it up as they have the less over head and can offer better returns.
If an index fund works for you, then Vanguard is the way to go because their fees are super low. I have the bulk of my retirement nestegg there.
 
savingforcollege.com is pretty much recognized as the resource for college savings. Should have all the info you need there.
thanks for the site, lots off stuff.
I'm not seeing the info about the best plans. They have a Top 10 in performance, but that's just market performance. I'd be more interested to see which plans provide the best benefits / lowest costs.
I looked at analysis done by Kiplingers and Morningstarhttp://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/2007/08/best529s.htmlhttp://corporate.morningstar.com/us/pr/529_ratingsa_z.pdf
 
savingforcollege.com is pretty much recognized as the resource for college savings. Should have all the info you need there.
thanks for the site, lots off stuff.
I'm not seeing the info about the best plans. They have a Top 10 in performance, but that's just market performance. I'd be more interested to see which plans provide the best benefits / lowest costs.
I looked at analysis done by Kiplingers and Morningstarhttp://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/2007/08/best529s.htmlhttp://corporate.morningstar.com/us/pr/529_ratingsa_z.pdf
Cool, thanks.Seems CA is one of the better ones and the only difference for me would be investment options, which I really don't care about. I like the simplicity and low cost of unmanaged index funds.
 
I'm in Maryland and invested in their pre-paid college fund. My thoughts at the time was that the stock market was super shaky, and that college tuitions would have to increase to compensate. Hasn't happened yet but my kids only in 7th grade so we shall see. I will say seeing that $750 fly out of my checking out each month is a bit painful...

 
Read a bit that several folks who had their college savings in 529s took a big hit when the stock market hit the tank in 2008. Any experiences?

 
'johnadams said:
Read a bit that several folks who had their college savings in 529s took a big hit when the stock market hit the tank in 2008. Any experiences?
that what my friend said about the Illinois one " The plan got beat up before because the securities within the plan went down and tuitions went up thus screwing all those currently holding the 529 plan."
 
Personally, I'd be pretty concerned about doing this at this point. The fund is hurting and way underfunded because they didn't project ridiculous growth, and from what I understand there's no requirement for the state to backstop it. Not that that would matter much, since their solvency is in question as well.

To me there stands a strong chance you won't see a dime of the money you put in back when it's time for your kid to go to school.

 
You can use any state's 529 plan, you don't have to use Illinois.
Just an FYI - in NY state (and some other states, I'm sure, though I don't know), you're only allowed a tax break if you contribute to an NY 529 plan. You can contribute to other states' plans if you want, but you can't take a tax deduction for those contributions. I don't know if IL is the same way; may want to look into it.
 
I'm in Maryland and invested in their pre-paid college fund. My thoughts at the time was that the stock market was super shaky, and that college tuitions would have to increase to compensate. Hasn't happened yet but my kids only in 7th grade so we shall see. I will say seeing that $750 fly out of my checking out each month is a bit painful...
The florida Pre Paid plan you need to be a resident for one year to join. This fall when my daughter enters Kindergarden and we hit 1 year, I'm taking the $750ish I'm sending the pre school and I'm taking out a 5 year payment plan like I never had the money. The extra $750 a month would be great, but having college paid for at the end of 4th grade is too much to pass up.I'm sure your thinking the same thing...
 
Just read a Forbes article on this, and glad to see a thread was fired up for discussion. This article lays the change to 529 plans out very nicely and makes it easy to understand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2015/01/19/obamas-new-state-of-the-union-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

College is hard enough for people to pay for, with costs increasing at rates way higher than inflation. This tax law change is a kick in the stones to families that fall between writing a check in full each semester and simply unable to afford to send their children to college. Pretty much, most people.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican that comes into office in 2016, I hope they'd peel this law change back. It's just going to make the college tuition bubble problem even worse, reducing a parent's ability to help their children out as they can at the rate of the tax haircut.

 
Just read a Forbes article on this, and glad to see a thread was fired up for discussion. This article lays the change to 529 plans out very nicely and makes it easy to understand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2015/01/19/obamas-new-state-of-the-union-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

College is hard enough for people to pay for, with costs increasing at rates way higher than inflation. This tax law change is a kick in the stones to families that fall between writing a check in full each semester and simply unable to afford to send their children to college. Pretty much, most people.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican that comes into office in 2016, I hope they'd peel this law change back. It's just going to make the college tuition bubble problem even worse, reducing a parent's ability to help their children out as they can at the rate of the tax haircut.
It's not law yet and with the current Congress the chances of this becoming law are pretty low.

 
Thinking of setting one up for my kids in Oklahoma. Still a smart move?

 
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I'm not an investing guru, but wouldn't it make more sense to just invest in an S&P index fund for 18 years?

I need a spreadsheet to do the math, but figure $2500 a year compounding at 7% with a long term capital gains tax. There also aren't penalties for not using the money on college in this scenario and you don't have to worry about silly #### like this.

 
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OK, so here's a good example of tax free vs. taxed ROI using the following calculator: http://www.dinkytown.net/java/InvestmentReturn.html

Let's assume the following inputs:

Years: 18

Rate of Return: 5% (If using a time based maturity mutual fund given the timeframe and need to minimize risk, assuming fees in the < 1% rate arena; this is debatable, but using 5% to stay conservative)

Initial Investment: $0

Annual investment: $7,500

Expected Inflation: 3%

Select "Show all totals after inflation" just to err on the conservative side.

Total after 18 years tax free: $130,133

Total after 18 years @ a 28% tax rate (since the proposal is to levy ordinary income tax rates, and not LTCG rates, which in itself is brutal): $112,841

Net tax diff: $17,292

You can play with that any which way you'd like to fit your situation, but that's brutal. You'd actually be better off investing in a taxable brokerage account and taking the LTCG's hit at 15%.

 
Just read a Forbes article on this, and glad to see a thread was fired up for discussion. This article lays the change to 529 plans out very nicely and makes it easy to understand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2015/01/19/obamas-new-state-of-the-union-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

College is hard enough for people to pay for, with costs increasing at rates way higher than inflation. This tax law change is a kick in the stones to families that fall between writing a check in full each semester and simply unable to afford to send their children to college. Pretty much, most people.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican that comes into office in 2016, I hope they'd peel this law change back. It's just going to make the college tuition bubble problem even worse, reducing a parent's ability to help their children out as they can at the rate of the tax haircut.
Only 3% of families invest in 529s. The median income of those families is 142k. This isn't "most people". this is a small segment of upper middle class to upper class folks.

 
I'm not an investing guru, but wouldn't it make more sense to just invest in an S&P index fund for 18 years?

I need a spreadsheet to do the math, but figure $2500 a year compounding at 7% with a long term capital gains tax. There also aren't penalties for not using the money on college in this scenario and you don't have to worry about silly #### like this.
Gets you to about 85K... which should cover 2 years maybe in a private institution. Public in state though you'd have leftover.

99% my kids will be Terps for this reason.

 
I'm not an investing guru, but wouldn't it make more sense to just invest in an S&P index fund for 18 years?

I need a spreadsheet to do the math, but figure $2500 a year compounding at 7% with a long term capital gains tax. There also aren't penalties for not using the money on college in this scenario and you don't have to worry about silly #### like this.
Gets you to about 85K... which should cover 2 years maybe in a private institution. Public in state though you'd have leftover.

99% my kids will be Terps for this reason.
If you're in-state and you want your kids to be Terps, they'll need to be top 5% in their class with 1,300+ Math/Engl SAT scores (using the current SAT scoring). Maryland has become extremely competitive for in-state kids.

 
I'm not an investing guru, but wouldn't it make more sense to just invest in an S&P index fund for 18 years?

I need a spreadsheet to do the math, but figure $2500 a year compounding at 7% with a long term capital gains tax. There also aren't penalties for not using the money on college in this scenario and you don't have to worry about silly #### like this.
Gets you to about 85K... which should cover 2 years maybe in a private institution. Public in state though you'd have leftover.

99% my kids will be Terps for this reason.
If you're in-state and you want your kids to be Terps, they'll need to be top 5% in their class with 1,300+ Math/Engl SAT scores (using the current SAT scoring). Maryland has become extremely competitive for in-state kids.
I did my MBA there, my wife did undergrad there.

When I applied to undergrad, it was my safety school. Has it changed that much?

Assuming my kids inherited their parents smarts... shouldn't be an issue imo.

 
Just read a Forbes article on this, and glad to see a thread was fired up for discussion. This article lays the change to 529 plans out very nicely and makes it easy to understand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2015/01/19/obamas-new-state-of-the-union-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

College is hard enough for people to pay for, with costs increasing at rates way higher than inflation. This tax law change is a kick in the stones to families that fall between writing a check in full each semester and simply unable to afford to send their children to college. Pretty much, most people.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican that comes into office in 2016, I hope they'd peel this law change back. It's just going to make the college tuition bubble problem even worse, reducing a parent's ability to help their children out as they can at the rate of the tax haircut.
Only 3% of families invest in 529s. The median income of those families is 142k. This isn't "most people". this is a small segment of upper middle class to upper class folks.
I'm not saying this to brag, but I am in this category.

That said, I have a kitchen that is literally falling apart that I couldn't dream of fixing, steps that are a safety hazard, and drive an 8 year old mazda. I haven't taken a vacation involving an airplane with my family in six years. I struggle to see how I am "upper" middle class. I've made sacrifices so that I can invest early in my children's college education. Seems somewhat foolish in retrospect.

 
Just read a Forbes article on this, and glad to see a thread was fired up for discussion. This article lays the change to 529 plans out very nicely and makes it easy to understand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2015/01/19/obamas-new-state-of-the-union-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

College is hard enough for people to pay for, with costs increasing at rates way higher than inflation. This tax law change is a kick in the stones to families that fall between writing a check in full each semester and simply unable to afford to send their children to college. Pretty much, most people.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican that comes into office in 2016, I hope they'd peel this law change back. It's just going to make the college tuition bubble problem even worse, reducing a parent's ability to help their children out as they can at the rate of the tax haircut.
Only 3% of families invest in 529s. The median income of those families is 142k. This isn't "most people". this is a small segment of upper middle class to upper class folks.
I'm not saying this to brag, but I am in this category. That said, I have a kitchen that is literally falling apart that I couldn't dream of fixing, steps that are a safety hazard, and drive an 8 year old mazda. I haven't taken a vacation involving an airplane with my family in six years. I struggle to see how I am "upper" middle class. I've made sacrifices so that I can invest early in my children's college education. Seems somewhat foolish in retrospect.
Let this be a lesson for you. Spend the money now. Seek the government teet later.

 
For some reason, this proposal really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The government has pounded us for years about college education. Everyone should go to college! Trade school isn't important! Free community college!

But now we're looking to retroactively punish people who've saved for their children's education? That seems pretty ####ed up to me.

Sure, maybe only 3% of people invest in 529s, but there's a big difference between trying to tax the ultrawealthy and your average Joe with a 529 plan for his kids. If they want to grandfather in existing 529s and change the rules going forward, that's one thing...but to retroactively go back and say "sorry, we lied, you have to pay tax on these withdrawals now" would be extremely disappointing.

I haven't read any particular technical writing on this proposal, so I don't know exactly how they want to go about implementing this. Just very surprised to see Obama pushing something like this. Seems very out of character with the whole fight-against-the-rich populist rhetoric he likes.

 
So because it's only "3%", it's ok to penalize people who are saving for their kids education.

Counterintuitive. I will never understand how people think that way.

 
For some reason, this proposal really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The government has pounded us for years about college education. Everyone should go to college! Trade school isn't important! Free community college!

But now we're looking to retroactively punish people who've saved for their children's education? That seems pretty ####ed up to me.

Sure, maybe only 3% of people invest in 529s, but there's a big difference between trying to tax the ultrawealthy and your average Joe with a 529 plan for his kids. If they want to grandfather in existing 529s and change the rules going forward, that's one thing...but to retroactively go back and say "sorry, we lied, you have to pay tax on these withdrawals now" would be extremely disappointing.

I haven't read any particular technical writing on this proposal, so I don't know exactly how they want to go about implementing this. Just very surprised to see Obama pushing something like this. Seems very out of character with the whole fight-against-the-rich populist rhetoric he likes.
Would this retroactively apply to prior deposits? That's unconscionable. You can't change the rules on people after they have relied upon them in crafting their investment strategies for putting their kids through school. I'm terrified that the Gunz's of the world are going to do this with our retirement accounts some day.

 
The way I read the new proposal is tax the gains as income, starting now. The article didn't specifically spell it out but I took it to mean that current balances wouldn't be affected.

Also, it is only talking about taxing the gains and not contributions since contributions are made with after tax dollars. Gains would be taxed at the student's income level t withdrawal. Doesn't sound so horrible.

 
For some reason, this proposal really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The government has pounded us for years about college education. Everyone should go to college! Trade school isn't important! Free community college!

But now we're looking to retroactively punish people who've saved for their children's education? That seems pretty ####ed up to me.

Sure, maybe only 3% of people invest in 529s, but there's a big difference between trying to tax the ultrawealthy and your average Joe with a 529 plan for his kids. If they want to grandfather in existing 529s and change the rules going forward, that's one thing...but to retroactively go back and say "sorry, we lied, you have to pay tax on these withdrawals now" would be extremely disappointing.

I haven't read any particular technical writing on this proposal, so I don't know exactly how they want to go about implementing this. Just very surprised to see Obama pushing something like this. Seems very out of character with the whole fight-against-the-rich populist rhetoric he likes.
Would this retroactively apply to prior deposits? That's unconscionable. You can't change the rules on people after they have relied upon them in crafting their investment strategies for putting their kids through school. I'm terrified that the Gunz's of the world are going to do this with our retirement accounts some day.
I hope and pray this is not a stress test for that to gauge the public's reaction/appetite for tax in this arena.

It would be extremely disappointing to see people who worked and saved in available tax advantaged retirement plans be penalized for it down the road. I hope I'm just over-thinking it and paranoid. The mindset of "only rich people contribute to 529's" extended down the road to Roth 401k/IRA plans, painted as "redistribution of wealth" via levied taxes after the fact would be a colossal :tfp: precedent and path to go down.

 
For some reason, this proposal really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The government has pounded us for years about college education. Everyone should go to college! Trade school isn't important! Free community college!

But now we're looking to retroactively punish people who've saved for their children's education? That seems pretty ####ed up to me.

Sure, maybe only 3% of people invest in 529s, but there's a big difference between trying to tax the ultrawealthy and your average Joe with a 529 plan for his kids. If they want to grandfather in existing 529s and change the rules going forward, that's one thing...but to retroactively go back and say "sorry, we lied, you have to pay tax on these withdrawals now" would be extremely disappointing.

I haven't read any particular technical writing on this proposal, so I don't know exactly how they want to go about implementing this. Just very surprised to see Obama pushing something like this. Seems very out of character with the whole fight-against-the-rich populist rhetoric he likes.
The tax would apply to "new" 529 contributions.

 
So because it's only "3%", it's ok to penalize people who are saving for their kids education.

Counterintuitive. I will never understand how people think that way.
No one thinks that way. No one is suggesting that the tax is ok simply because it only affects 3% of the population.

 
For some reason, this proposal really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The government has pounded us for years about college education. Everyone should go to college! Trade school isn't important! Free community college!

But now we're looking to retroactively punish people who've saved for their children's education? That seems pretty ####ed up to me.

Sure, maybe only 3% of people invest in 529s, but there's a big difference between trying to tax the ultrawealthy and your average Joe with a 529 plan for his kids. If they want to grandfather in existing 529s and change the rules going forward, that's one thing...but to retroactively go back and say "sorry, we lied, you have to pay tax on these withdrawals now" would be extremely disappointing.

I haven't read any particular technical writing on this proposal, so I don't know exactly how they want to go about implementing this. Just very surprised to see Obama pushing something like this. Seems very out of character with the whole fight-against-the-rich populist rhetoric he likes.
Would this retroactively apply to prior deposits? That's unconscionable. You can't change the rules on people after they have relied upon them in crafting their investment strategies for putting their kids through school. I'm terrified that the Gunz's of the world are going to do this with our retirement accounts some day.
The tax would apply to "new" 529 contributions.

 
Great. 2014 was our first year contributing to these.

Anyone know if we can "undo" the deposits before we file our taxes?

 
Just read a Forbes article on this, and glad to see a thread was fired up for discussion. This article lays the change to 529 plans out very nicely and makes it easy to understand: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2015/01/19/obamas-new-state-of-the-union-tax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

College is hard enough for people to pay for, with costs increasing at rates way higher than inflation. This tax law change is a kick in the stones to families that fall between writing a check in full each semester and simply unable to afford to send their children to college. Pretty much, most people.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican that comes into office in 2016, I hope they'd peel this law change back. It's just going to make the college tuition bubble problem even worse, reducing a parent's ability to help their children out as they can at the rate of the tax haircut.
Only 3% of families invest in 529s. The median income of those families is 142k. This isn't "most people". this is a small segment of upper middle class to upper class folks.
I'm not saying this to brag, but I am in this category. That said, I have a kitchen that is literally falling apart that I couldn't dream of fixing, steps that are a safety hazard, and drive an 8 year old mazda. I haven't taken a vacation involving an airplane with my family in six years. I struggle to see how I am "upper" middle class. I've made sacrifices so that I can invest early in my children's college education. Seems somewhat foolish in retrospect.
I am also in the category. I drive a 1999 4Runner and our family lives very modestly.

That doesn't change the fact that you and I are very fortunate to have family incomes that put us ahead of 80-90% of American families. If the gains from the 529 plan I set up are subject to a tax my long term overall returns will be smaller, but I'll still be in great shape compared to most folks who are struggling to make ends meet. :shrug:

 

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