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Flynn was the starter in how many of those games? Thus, he has not won more games than Wilson.I must be. Both guys had their teams carry them to victories. What is the difference.
Flynn was the starter in how many of those games? Thus, he has not won more games than Wilson.I must be. Both guys had their teams carry them to victories. What is the difference.
Why does being the starter matter?Flynn was the starter in how many of those games? Thus, he has not won more games than Wilson.I must be. Both guys had their teams carry them to victories. What is the difference.
:whoosh:Why does being the starter matter?Flynn was the starter in how many of those games? Thus, he has not won more games than Wilson.I must be. Both guys had their teams carry them to victories. What is the difference.
Houston has a top D and arguably the best RB in the league. The running game holds back Schaub's numbers in a BIG way. He has proven that he has the ability to put the ball in the air, yet Kubiak's game plan continues to be run first, run second, in spite of having a very good QB and a Pro-Bowl WR in AJ. Russell is a rookie and is not being forced to put the team on his back like Luck/RG3/Tannehill is. I personally think that as Wilson develops and Seattle finds Wilson his "Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels", he'll be a very good QB. I think Wilson COULD become the QB that Philly wants Mike Vick to be.'matttyl said:I guess my "argument" is that Wilson will not make a great FF QB, and you guys are making my argument for me. When you have a "dominate defense" and a great running game....if that's your team's "mindset", then you will continue to have low scoring games where your QB doesn't have to put up big numbers for your team to have "success" (wins). As this is a RW bandwagon thread, I thought the discussion would be about RW, and not about the Seattle Seahawks, though. When you look at the top FF QBs so far this year, you do see some similar traits, though....poor defense and poor running game. As such, as long as this "mindset" you talk about continues, RW will not be a great or likely even good FF QB (which is the argument this thread should be about).'Hooper31 said:I've lost count of how many times I've tried to tell people that Scientist is a blind homer. We all have them. Every team. He's over the top. If you want direct an argument at him, please direct it at him. There's a much larger fan base that would have a rational discourse with you.'biju said:So one fan (and a delusional one at that) is the basis of your argument? Ok.'matttyl said:The OP, or someone else a few pages back, saying that Wilson will end up as a top 2 rookie QB from this class, or that he will be better than RG3. You just said both of those are wrong.You're right in that I'd much rather have Luck or an unhurt Griffin. (I'm not totally sold on Tannehill personally.) For that matter, I'd rather have Aaron Rodgers too while we're dreaming up different QBs to stick back there. Ultimately, Seattle didn't have a top two pick so I'm not sure where you're going with this other than it's too bad that good players end up on crappy teams. Feel free to continue to moan about it though, as I'm sure you will.
I believe the point is that just about any QB could do that. It would be nice if Wilson could convert a 3rd and 5. As a Lynch owner, I'm tired of watching him scramble around and throw the ball away on 3rd down or dump it off for 2 yards.'ImTheScientist said:Is he not supposed to take advantage of teams expecting the run?'cstu said:No, I completely agree with you. Wilson's completion percentage looks nice but he's only taken advantage of teams expecting the run. On 3rd down and 5+ yards to go, when teams are expecting a pass, he's 15 of 26 and only 7 of those were 1st downs.Is this attempting to say that the passing game is stronger than the running game?This ratio (51.1% of total yards from passing) puts Seattle closer to a 50:50 split in passing yards to rushing yards than any team in the league. To me, in today's NFL, that shows that you have a poor QB (or at least below average). If Seattle is running that much, then they are seeing a lot of 8 and 9 in the box which you would think is opening up the passing game, right?
Schaub is incredibly efficient in his limited attempts. His career per pass stats rival those of Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. Wilson's per pass play numbers have him looking up at guys like Bradford, Weeden, Sanchez, and Cassell. Maybe he can turn it around, but so far he's been terrible.Houston has a top D and arguably the best RB in the league. The running game holds back Schaub's numbers in a BIG way. He has proven that he has the ability to put the ball in the air, yet Kubiak's game plan continues to be run first, run second, in spite of having a very good QB and a Pro-Bowl WR in AJ. Russell is a rookie and is not being forced to put the team on his back like Luck/RG3/Tannehill is. I personally think that as Wilson develops and Seattle finds Wilson his "Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels", he'll be a very good QB. I think Wilson COULD become the QB that Philly wants Mike Vick to be.I guess my "argument" is that Wilson will not make a great FF QB, and you guys are making my argument for me. When you have a "dominate defense" and a great running game....if that's your team's "mindset", then you will continue to have low scoring games where your QB doesn't have to put up big numbers for your team to have "success" (wins). As this is a RW bandwagon thread, I thought the discussion would be about RW, and not about the Seattle Seahawks, though. When you look at the top FF QBs so far this year, you do see some similar traits, though....poor defense and poor running game. As such, as long as this "mindset" you talk about continues, RW will not be a great or likely even good FF QB (which is the argument this thread should be about).I've lost count of how many times I've tried to tell people that Scientist is a blind homer. We all have them. Every team. He's over the top. If you want direct an argument at him, please direct it at him. There's a much larger fan base that would have a rational discourse with you.So one fan (and a delusional one at that) is the basis of your argument? Ok.The OP, or someone else a few pages back, saying that Wilson will end up as a top 2 rookie QB from this class, or that he will be better than RG3. You just said both of those are wrong.You're right in that I'd much rather have Luck or an unhurt Griffin. (I'm not totally sold on Tannehill personally.) For that matter, I'd rather have Aaron Rodgers too while we're dreaming up different QBs to stick back there. Ultimately, Seattle didn't have a top two pick so I'm not sure where you're going with this other than it's too bad that good players end up on crappy teams. Feel free to continue to moan about it though, as I'm sure you will.
I'd bet a lot of money that he doesn't lose his job after this game no matter what the outcome is. That, and I don't believe NE is going to stop Marshawn Lynch today.Winds at 15-20 MPH with a 90 percent chance of rainNE seems to have an advantage in poor conditions. they will stop the run forcing wilson to throw and i don't think that will go very well for him. i am expecting him to loose his job after this game with 2-3 picks
I thought advantage is to a running team and defense.I would also bet money he doesn't LOOSE his job.Winds at 15-20 MPH with a 90 percent chance of rainNE seems to have an advantage in poor conditions. they will stop the run forcing wilson to throw and i don't think that will go very well for him. i am expecting him to loose his job after this game with 2-3 picks
Wilson has bigger hands and a stronger arm..... Brady will struggle today...12th man will destroy him.20mph winds are irrelevant when you never throw the ball downfield.
Pretty optimistic since he's only got 5 TD's (and 6 INTs) in 5 games.Wilson throws for 300/3 today in a 42-31 loss.
Agreed on the TDs (I'm thinking one or two tops), although if you're going to be ragging on the INTs you've got to discount the 3 he's had in the past two games that weren't his fault (2 balls tipped into the defense, 1 receiver was tripped) and one at the end of a half that didn't make any difference in the game.Pretty optimistic since he's only got 5 TD's (and 6 INTs) in 5 games.Wilson throws for 300/3 today in a 42-31 loss.
looks like i was wrong but sheesh, you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend anti-wilson posts. i guess blindly supporting your team works out on occasion.I thought advantage is to a running team and defense.I would also bet money he doesn't LOOSE his job.Winds at 15-20 MPH with a 90 percent chance of rainNE seems to have an advantage in poor conditions. they will stop the run forcing wilson to throw and i don't think that will go very well for him. i am expecting him to loose his job after this game with 2-3 picks
Speaking of ... is Wilson Tebow 2.0? Fun to watch (except that bull ending against my Packers).Jesus.
Tebow 2.0? No, Wilson is actually a good passer. If you watched today's game, you would know the difference.Speaking of ... is Wilson Tebow 2.0? Fun to watch (except that bull ending against my Packers).Jesus.
This is awesome!
NgthWinds at 15-20 MPH with a 90 percent chance of rainNE seems to have an advantage in poor conditions. they will stop the run forcing wilson to throw and i don't think that will go very well for him. i am expecting him to loose his job after this game with 2-3 picks
Nice call on Wilson's numbers...Wilson throws for 300/3 today in a 42-31 loss.
'Hooper31 said:Surprised I haven't seen people saying "If Flynn starts Seattle wins by at least 14".
The New England Patriots have lost three games they had no business losing. And the Seattle Seahawks pulled out another miracle at home.
The Seahawks pulled out a wild 24-23 victory on Sunday after Russell Wilson connected with Sidney Rice on a 46-yard touchdown pass with 87 seconds remaining to cap perhaps the most satisfying regular-season win of the Pete Carroll era. And one of the most painful regular-season Bill Belichick losses in a while.
"It was a heck of a throw. When I came out of my break, the whole time I was looking at the ball in the air and it was so pretty," Rice said, according to The Associated Press. "I was just running, I was like 'You've got to catch up to it, you've got to catch up to it,' and I was able to track it down."
Consider this: New England had a 13-point lead with less than eight minutes left against a rookie quarterback. Twice in the game, Tom Brady came away with no points after moving the ball inside the 10-yard line. Brady threw two second-half interceptions and made a number of missed throws and mental miscues. The Seahawks' defense gave up a lot of yards (475), but the unit forced a ton of errors and locked Brady down in the fourth quarter.
When the time came for a little late-game magic, Brady came up short. Wilson, on the other hand, connected on a beautiful bomb after Rice beat Patriots safety Tavon Wilson to the inside. New England was playing two safeties deep on the play, making that kind of mistake inexcusable.
The Patriots look like a dominant team that can't close out close games. The Seahawks look like a team with a great defense and a rookie quarterback who has a knack for making the inexplicable happen.
To be specific, 4 times out of 6 so far.'flc735 said:looks like i was wrong but sheesh, you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend anti-wilson posts. i guess blindly supporting your team works out on occasion.I thought advantage is to a running team and defense.I would also bet money he doesn't LOOSE his job.Winds at 15-20 MPH with a 90 percent chance of rainNE seems to have an advantage in poor conditions. they will stop the run forcing wilson to throw and i don't think that will go very well for him. i am expecting him to loose his job after this game with 2-3 picks
Positives I like so far:* Accurate passer. I expect a high completion percentage. This is what makes him the very unTebow-like.* Mature attitude and focus on improvement. I've been following him on twitter and several other Seahawk players. He has an uncommon continual improvement work ethic.* Very solid citizen. He's been spending his off days visiting children's hospitals. He daily re-tweets his bible verse of the day. He's squeaky clean. In this regard he's very Tebow-like. * He has the team behind him. His teammates want to win for him. They've bought in to Wilson as the starter.* He avoids sacks and INTs. The numbers don't bear the INT comment out through the first five games, but its not hard to see he's averse to turning the ball over. Negatives I don't like so far.* He keeps bailing on the pocket. I know I mentioned above that I saw it once in the past game where Breno got flagged, but there are times he still looks too skittish and not trusting his protection. Is this natural for a rookie of six games? Probably. Will he improve? Time will tell, but there are times where its a bit too skittish. I wonder, did Brady, Brees, or Manning ever look like that?* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.* Something from the positives... He's turnover averse. Can this be both a positive and a negative? Yeah, I think it can be. Is he going to trust his receivers to make plays on the ball? I saw some improvement yesterday. On the deep ball to Obomanu he threw it up for grabs, but all his other throws were fairly conservative. On a third and long at the end of the game he threw one out of bounds deep down the left side. IMO he has to at least give the WR a chance to make a play on the ball there. And this was in a game situation where they didn't know if they were going to get another opportunity.
I agree with most of that as well. He is showing improvement in all areas. The pass to Obo was more of a precision pass than I think Hooper gives credit for, really one if his best throws of the game, IMO. He stayed in the pocket more than before and the only really atrocious play where he looked like rookie was the quick screen that was busted from the start. One other area if improvement I saw was the snap count variations. If there was any question last week about a short leash, the rest of the naysayers ought to realize it isn't going to happen. For better or worse, he's the QB.Positives I like so far:* Accurate passer. I expect a high completion percentage. This is what makes him the very unTebow-like.* Mature attitude and focus on improvement. I've been following him on twitter and several other Seahawk players. He has an uncommon continual improvement work ethic.* Very solid citizen. He's been spending his off days visiting children's hospitals. He daily re-tweets his bible verse of the day. He's squeaky clean. In this regard he's very Tebow-like. * He has the team behind him. His teammates want to win for him. They've bought in to Wilson as the starter.* He avoids sacks and INTs. The numbers don't bear the INT comment out through the first five games, but its not hard to see he's averse to turning the ball over. Negatives I don't like so far.* He keeps bailing on the pocket. I know I mentioned above that I saw it once in the past game where Breno got flagged, but there are times he still looks too skittish and not trusting his protection. Is this natural for a rookie of six games? Probably. Will he improve? Time will tell, but there are times where its a bit too skittish. I wonder, did Brady, Brees, or Manning ever look like that?* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.* Something from the positives... He's turnover averse. Can this be both a positive and a negative? Yeah, I think it can be. Is he going to trust his receivers to make plays on the ball? I saw some improvement yesterday. On the deep ball to Obomanu he threw it up for grabs, but all his other throws were fairly conservative. On a third and long at the end of the game he threw one out of bounds deep down the left side. IMO he has to at least give the WR a chance to make a play on the ball there. And this was in a game situation where they didn't know if they were going to get another opportunity.
* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.
He making a believer out of me, but can he do it against the 49ers?I was wrong about Wilson - I didn't think that he could do it this soon - I am looking forward to the (hopeful) NFL replay this week on NFLN.
the Seahawks can win it, but it will be a different contest. SF is (obviously) better defensively (than the Pats) and not as good on offense.He making a believer out of me, but can he do it against the 49ers?I was wrong about Wilson - I didn't think that he could do it this soon - I am looking forward to the (hopeful) NFL replay this week on NFLN.
I'll wait until there is a bigger sample. Never subscribed to the Scam Newton bandwagon becasue I knew once defenses get enough film on these guys, they devise ways to stop them and then you see if they are capable of adapting. So far its No Go Newton.I was wrong about Wilson - I didn't think that he could do it this soon - I am looking forward to the (hopeful) NFL replay this week on NFLN.
If you like defensive struggles with grind it out run-oriented offenses, this could be a great game. Actually excited to see what Wilson can do.the Seahawks can win it, but it will be a different contest. SF is (obviously) better defensively (than the Pats) and not as good on offense.He making a believer out of me, but can he do it against the 49ers?I was wrong about Wilson - I didn't think that he could do it this soon - I am looking forward to the (hopeful) NFL replay this week on NFLN.
good points, but Wilson did it on a big stage and he deserves his props - btw i never was a fan of Newton. I like Wilson's intangibles which Newton seems to lack.I'll wait until there is a bigger sample. Never subscribed to the Scam Newton bandwagon becasue I knew once defenses get enough film on these guys, they devise ways to stop them and then you see if they are capable of adapting. So far its No Go Newton.I was wrong about Wilson - I didn't think that he could do it this soon - I am looking forward to the (hopeful) NFL replay this week on NFLN.
Fully expecting a blood-bath. Defenses will determine this one. As a Seahawk homer I'm very worried about the TEs Davis and Walker. Seattle has struggled with the pair in the past. If you saw the Seattle game against Dallas earlier this year Witten was open a lot, but had an awful game. The fact that Bam Bam Kam lit him up a few times contributed, but I think if you ask Witten he would say he just had one of the worst games of his career.He making a believer out of me, but can he do it against the 49ers?I was wrong about Wilson - I didn't think that he could do it this soon - I am looking forward to the (hopeful) NFL replay this week on NFLN.
The maturation of Russell Wilson. After his sixth NFL game Sunday, a 24-23 win over the Patriots at home, Wilson told Tom Brady on the field, "I have so much respect for you as a player and a person. It's great to play against you." He walked through the Seattle locker room, shaking hands with every player. He stopped to share a few moments with owner Paul Allen. In his post-game press conference, during which he deflected any praise about himself toward the team, he finished the way he finishes interviews broadcast live to Seattle fans: "Go Hawks!''
Good teammate. Good politician. Good guy. And a very quick study as a quarterback.
Last week, at Carolina, the coaches wanted him to play better on third downs; Wilson completed nine of 10 passes on third down in beating the Panthers. This week, coaches harped on two things: better production in the red zone, and, when scrambling, throwing the ball downfield if he had someone open, rather than running or taking the surer checkdown. Seattle scored on two of three trips into the red zone Sunday. And he threw 24- and 50-yard completions to Doug Baldwin on the run, flowing right.
Thirteen points down to Brady, in a heavy Seattle mist with nine minutes to go, Wilson led an 83-yard drive ending in his red-zone touchdown pass to Braylon Edwards. He got the ball back at his 43 with two minutes and change left. On the fourth play of the drive, from the Patriots' 46, Wilson started with play-action and rolled right. He said he wasn't sure Sidney Rice would be his target, and how could he know he'd be victimizing two New England rookies? But then he saw something: Rice getting an edge on a double-move on Tavon Wilson, feigning toward the corner then darting to the post.
"I had a feeling he'd open up,'' Wilson told me. "You never really wait until a guy is open. You have to anticipate. And I delivered the ball to a spot where I thought only Sidney would be able to catch it.''
Throwing from his own 46, Wilson released a high-arcing perfect spiral. Downfield, safety Nate Ebner, another New England rookie, sprinted over to help the Patriots' Wilson, who was two steps behind Rice. The ball landed 57 yards from the spot Wilson threw it, three yards deep in the end zone -- and right into Rice's hands. Perfect throw.
When Seattle GM John Schneider picked Wilson 75th overall, he was privately chided by his peers for picking Wilson too high. He's too small (5-foot-11), football people said; he won't be able to take the punishment of the pro game, and his arm's just okay. It's only six games, of course, and anything can happen, and he's had a couple of games of shaky decision-making. But that throw to Rice, 57 yards in the air and exactly on target, with a game against the three-time Super Bowl champions on the line, shows why Schneider made a great draft pick.
I asked Wilson if he was stunned to have beaten Tom Brady and the Patriots, with the Belichick-designed defense.
"No,'' he said. "Not at all. This is what I've been waiting for my whole life. God's given me a blessing and an opportunity. I've always looked up to Tom, even though he's 6-4, 6-5 and a different kind of player. He's so smart, got so much competitive fire and tenacity. He didn't get drafted high, and he had to work for everything he ever got. I really identify with him. I try to prepare the same way I know he prepares.''
There are good stories, and there's Russell Wilson beating the Patriots to send the loudest crowd in the NFL into bedlam.
Good post overall, but a few comments.Positives I like so far:* Accurate passer. I expect a high completion percentage. This is what makes him the very unTebow-like.* Mature attitude and focus on improvement. I've been following him on twitter and several other Seahawk players. He has an uncommon continual improvement work ethic.* Very solid citizen. He's been spending his off days visiting children's hospitals. He daily re-tweets his bible verse of the day. He's squeaky clean. In this regard he's very Tebow-like. * He has the team behind him. His teammates want to win for him. They've bought in to Wilson as the starter.* He avoids sacks and INTs. The numbers don't bear the INT comment out through the first five games, but its not hard to see he's averse to turning the ball over. Negatives I don't like so far.* He keeps bailing on the pocket. I know I mentioned above that I saw it once in the past game where Breno got flagged, but there are times he still looks too skittish and not trusting his protection. Is this natural for a rookie of six games? Probably. Will he improve? Time will tell, but there are times where its a bit too skittish. I wonder, did Brady, Brees, or Manning ever look like that?* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.* Something from the positives... He's turnover averse. Can this be both a positive and a negative? Yeah, I think it can be. Is he going to trust his receivers to make plays on the ball? I saw some improvement yesterday. On the deep ball to Obomanu he threw it up for grabs, but all his other throws were fairly conservative. On a third and long at the end of the game he threw one out of bounds deep down the left side. IMO he has to at least give the WR a chance to make a play on the ball there. And this was in a game situation where they didn't know if they were going to get another opportunity.
I don't really understand the question. Wilson is a much more talented runner than Brady, Brees, and Manning ever were. It seems natural to me that he would choose to run more than they did.* He keeps bailing on the pocket. I know I mentioned above that I saw it once in the past game where Breno got flagged, but there are times he still looks too skittish and not trusting his protection. Is this natural for a rookie of six games? Probably. Will he improve? Time will tell, but there are times where its a bit too skittish. I wonder, did Brady, Brees, or Manning ever look like that?
No one should have been expecting him to be as quick or fast as Griffin or Vick, who are probably the two fastest QBs in NFL history. But Wilson seems pretty elusive to me... He looked pretty elusive on that 3rd down run where he eluded the entire defensive line and got the first down.* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.
At N.C. State, Wilson often put the ball up downfield to give his WRs a chance to make plays. In fact, he did it so often that he was sometimes criticized for it. My guess is that the Seattle coaching staff is coaching him not to do it.* Something from the positives... He's turnover averse. Can this be both a positive and a negative? Yeah, I think it can be. Is he going to trust his receivers to make plays on the ball? I saw some improvement yesterday. On the deep ball to Obomanu he threw it up for grabs, but all his other throws were fairly conservative. On a third and long at the end of the game he threw one out of bounds deep down the left side. IMO he has to at least give the WR a chance to make a play on the ball there. And this was in a game situation where they didn't know if they were going to get another opportunity.