What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

QB Russell Wilson, PIT (3 Viewers)

Bigboy10182000 said:
proninja said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
proninja said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
proninja said:
The Seahawks averaged 4.33 points per drive in the 1st half.

The Broncos, the best offense ever, averaged 3 points per drive all season.

Tell me again how mediocre the QB is, and how the team relied only on its amazing defense.
Click to expand...
What were his numbers?
Click to expand...
64% completion rate, no punts, awesome on 3rd down, 4.33 points per drive
Click to expand...
I meant completions, attempts, yards (rushing and passing), TD's and TO's.
Click to expand...
Oh, gotcha. So you're upset that I used the ones that make him look good, and you want to only use the ones that make him look bad.

Did you watch the game?
Click to expand...
Now it's getting wierd.

I dont have a horse in the race. I did watch the game. I dont recall the stats but I do remember feeling like they were mediocre (average).

Unless you're Russell you need to relax a bit.
Click to expand...
This is pretty silly. Russell was CLUTCH in this game, converting 3rd down after 3rd down. He also clearly outplayed Manning.

 
I knew I shouldn't have come in here. I know the SP has a weird effect on people, but the last person I'd expect to get bent over here is you proninja. You're better than your most recent posts in this thread.

 
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.

 
People want big numbers...so when they see WIlson being efficient but not spectacular passing numbers early, they thought he was mediocre.

 
proninja said:
The Commish said:
I knew I shouldn't have come in here. I know the SP has a weird effect on people, but the last person I'd expect to get bent over here is you proninja. You're better than your most recent posts in this thread.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if that is a compliment or not.I think Wilson played well in the first half. I still think he was far more than mediocre. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Your comments seemed to be motivated by comments I had made. I just wanted to be clear that I never said he played poorly or was mediocre. Those strawmen seem to have been constructed in an interest to avoid what I was saying. It's clear to me that my criteria for an MVP candidate are much different than Seattle fan or Wilson fan criteria, so we're probably done with this.

My comment was meant as a compliment to you. You usually address what is being said rather than creating strawmen which is a refreshing change of pace.

 
Excerpt from Peter King's MMQB:

I asked Pete Carroll abut the continued development of Russell Wilson, and he told me two interesting things: He thinks Wilson can be a 70-percent passer, and Wilson and Percy Harvin are already throwing together this offseason. And also this: Carroll will not be going light on Wilson now that he’s won a Super Bowl. “He needs all the attention that everyone else needs, and he’s gonna get it,” Carroll said. “Russell’s just a young guy figuring it out. Of course, he applies himself so well that you think that he’s okay. I think that would be a tragic mistake. He’s just developing. He’s just coming on. He needs work fundamentally. He needs work on the principles of what we’re doing. He needs repetitions with the guys he plays with. All of that will just continue to add to his play. So we’re not going to treat him any differently than anybody else. We’re gonna battle like crazy to make him push his game as far as he can take it. So that’s what this offseason is about. He’ll be available as much as a guy can be available. He’s already traveling with our guys. Throwing with our guys. Working out with guys all over the country. He’s ringing the bell now. Wherever he goes, they know he’s coming. He’s gonna get them out and get them on a field somewhere, and throw the ball around, and do something with the fellas.’’
Click to expand...
Pete Carroll on Russell Wilson: 'He's just developing'By Gregg Rosenthal

Around The League Editor

Russell Wilson is a Super Bowl champion. Russell Wilson is early in his development as a pro quarterback.

These two statements undeniably are true, and yet create a natural tension. Seattle Seahawks coach Pete Carroll wants to be careful not to assume Wilson has "arrived."

"He needs all the attention that everyone else needs, and he's gonna get it," Carroll told TheMMQB.com's Peter King. "Russell's just a young guy figuring it out. Of course, he applies himself so well that you think that he's OK. I think that would be a tragic mistake. He's just developing. He's just coming on. He needs work fundamentally. He needs work on the principles of what we're doing."

These quotes stuck out because they mirrored a conversation we had with a number of people in Orlando, Fla., last week at the NFL Annual Meeting. There is a wide range of opinions regarding Wilson around the league and among the media. Some folks believe he's already a top-eight quarterback, on his way to the top five.

Others believe Wilson is not even in the top 15 yet, and they'd rather have some of his young competition like Colin Kaepernick, Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.

The conversation speaks to the larger question of whether a quarterback gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. Throughout Wilson's 2013 season, the second-year player didn't seem to be reading the entire field. He didn't throw the ball much, but he was very efficient when he did throw and is one of the best deep-ball throwers in the league.

Could Newton or Kaepernick have won a Super Bowl with Seattle's roster? We tend to think the answer is yes.

As Carroll said, Wilson still has a long way to go in his development. But there is nothing in his makeup to suggest he won't continue to get better.

Wilson has enjoyed one of the most successful starts to a quarterback's career in a long time. He might not be a top-shelf quarterback yet, but there's every reason to believe he'll get there. He's just getting started.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" reviews potential landing spots for DeSean Jackson and declares this week's winners and losers.
Click to expand...
 
Russell Wilson wants to be best QB ever, 'one day'By Kevin Patra

Around the League writer

"It's payback, Russell Wilson falling way back in the draft, turn nothing into something, still can make that, straw into gold chump I will spin Rumpelstiltskin in a haystack." - Eminem, "The Monster"

Russell Wilson continues to make general managers and coaches regret letting him slip all the way to the third round of the NFL Draft.

Coming off a Super Bowl championship in just his second season, Wilson set his sights even higher.

"Why can't I be the best quarterback to ever play the game one day?" Wilson said Wednesday after throwing out the ceremonial first pitch at a Texas Rangers game, per ESPN.com. "I'm not right now. I've got a long way to go. But one day, you know?"

Wilson's comments mesh well with Pete Carroll recently saying Russell is "just developing" as an NFL quarterback.

Questions about whether Wilson has "arrived" as a quarterback or is still in the early developmental stages of his career will continue to be debated.

While those arguments unravel, Wilson will continue his diligent studying and improvement with a goal to be the G.O.A.T.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" welcomes NFL Media's Jeff Darlington to the studio, reacts to the DeSean Jackson signing and discusses big-name veterans still looking for new teams.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not knocking Wilson, I think he's great. But most QBs would be able to excel in his situation. I'd like to see how he does once the sledding gets a little tougher.

 
lbouchard said:
Faust said:
Seahawks' Russell Wilson not yet a top-five NFL quarterback
Click to expand...
I don't follow Casserly closely, so I don't know how reliable he is, but his excerpt doesn't inspire much faith. Flacco, Eli, and Stafford over Wilson? Yikes.
Click to expand...
I've tended to enjoy half of the articles I've read of his (Which is decent for an nfl.com columnist).

But I struggle to see what Foles has really put on the board over Wilson.

People act like Seattle have an all-world oline and receiving corp as well........

 
Kree said:
lbouchard said:
Faust said:
Seahawks' Russell Wilson not yet a top-five NFL quarterback
Click to expand...
I don't follow Casserly closely, so I don't know how reliable he is, but his excerpt doesn't inspire much faith. Flacco, Eli, and Stafford over Wilson? Yikes.
Click to expand...
I've tended to enjoy half of the articles I've read of his (Which is decent for an nfl.com columnist).

But I struggle to see what Foles has really put on the board over Wilson.

People act like Seattle have an all-world oline and receiving corp as well........
Click to expand...
NFL record 7 TD game? Better TD%, better INT%, better offense? RW is terrific, absolutely, but he's been limited in his actual production (like 79 yards pass until the late 4th quarter vs NO for instance...). But Foles has put more "on the board."

 
Eminence said:
I'm not knocking Wilson, I think he's great. But most QBs would be able to excel in his situation. I'd like to see how he does once the sledding gets a little tougher.
Click to expand...
:no:

His TD-INT ratio is pretty awesome when you consider he has had average at best WRs to throw to and his o-line was a mess last year. Sure, a lot of other QBs could come in and win some games with them, because of that defense, but the plays he makes, with his legs and his arm, is a major reason why they were a Super Bowl-winning team instead of a 9 or 10 win team.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
proninja said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
NFL record 7 TD game? Better TD%, better INT%, better offense? RW is terrific, absolutely, but he's been limited in his actual production (like 79 yards pass until the late 4th quarter vs NO for instance...). But Foles has put more "on the board."
Click to expand...
He's one of three players who have been in the top 5 in YPA each of the last two years. The other two are Manning and Rogers - Brees didn't make the list either year, for reference. There's a lot of stuff in the discussion other than that, but his production has been elite by rate. Saying he has been "limited" in his actual production is laughable.

We don't know if Wilson will turn into Rogers or Manning and keep that YPA high with more attempts, but it doesn't seem unlikely. He's been as good or better than them through the first two years of his career.
Click to expand...
It helps that you can't even look at a receiver crosseyed anymore and his stats are padded by the fail mary.

 
proninja said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
NFL record 7 TD game? Better TD%, better INT%, better offense? RW is terrific, absolutely, but he's been limited in his actual production (like 79 yards pass until the late 4th quarter vs NO for instance...). But Foles has put more "on the board."
Click to expand...
He's one of three players who have been in the top 5 in YPA each of the last two years. The other two are Manning and Rogers - Brees didn't make the list either year, for reference. There's a lot of stuff in the discussion other than that, but his production has been elite by rate. Saying he has been "limited" in his actual production is laughable.

We don't know if Wilson will turn into Rogers or Manning and keep that YPA high with more attempts, but it doesn't seem unlikely. He's been as good or better than them through the first two years of his career.
Click to expand...
Hey agreed, I said "terrific", not sure what else I should have said there. I think it was just the stats "on the board" comment there in the OP I was referring to and was just looking at Foles (who had a better YPA btw 9.1 > 8.2, and 4 300+ yard & 2 400+ yard games in 21 > 2 and 0 in 35, etc.). I'm listening, not disrespecting, I was just thinking of the games where he was putting up like 100-215 yards passing per game at the end of 2013, which are not big numbers. "Limited" just meant how he could put up bigger numbers in a different offense. Obviously efficiency is a whole other thing. So is winning.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider said:
Eminence said:
I'm not knocking Wilson, I think he's great. But most QBs would be able to excel in his situation. I'd like to see how he does once the sledding gets a little tougher.
Click to expand...
:no:

His TD-INT ratio is pretty awesome when you consider he has had average at best WRs to throw to and his o-line was a mess last year. Sure, a lot of other QBs could come in and win some games with them, because of that defense, but the plays he makes, with his legs and his arm, is a major reason why they were a Super Bowl-winning team instead of a 9 or 10 win team.
Click to expand...
I think I tend towards this line of thinking as well. What Wilson does that many QB's can't is to smartly use his legs to keep a play alive. I think his judicious use of his scrambling is what sets him apart. He extends plays in which many other QB's would have to throw it away or even take a sack. But he also does it when it needs to be done, in clutch situations. He's rarely reckless with the ball.

I have no doubt that there are QB's out there that are better at diagnosing the field pre-snap and are faster at recognizing and processing information post-snap during their drop-back. But those are also skills that a young QB should be behind in compared to more veteran QB's and thus should also improve upon as he gains more experience. There is nothing that indicates Wilson can't improve in those areas.

I think there is some backlash against him (and Seattle) wherein people are being overly critical and not giving enough consideration to his age and experience.

 
proninja said:
Ghost Rider said:
Yeah, a single 24-yard pass is seriously gonna alter the YPA of a QB who threw nearly 400 yards passes that season. :lmao:
Click to expand...
Two playoff losses since and he still cares about that regular season call from 2012, huh? You'd think they'd be more upset about their more recent failures.
Click to expand...
Not really. They are going to win the Super Bowl this year. Everything else is in the past. I think on paper so far, nobody can hang with the Packers. Not even the Seahawks.

 
Sabertooth said:
proninja said:
Ghost Rider said:
Yeah, a single 24-yard pass is seriously gonna alter the YPA of a QB who threw nearly 400 yards passes that season. :lmao:
Click to expand...
Two playoff losses since and he still cares about that regular season call from 2012, huh? You'd think they'd be more upset about their more recent failures.
Click to expand...
Not really. They are going to win the Super Bowl this year. Everything else is in the past. I think on paper so far, nobody can hang with the Packers. Not even the Seahawks.
Click to expand...
Ha Ha is going to fix their defense? Ha Ha.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Kree said:
lbouchard said:
Faust said:
Seahawks' Russell Wilson not yet a top-five NFL quarterback
Click to expand...
I don't follow Casserly closely, so I don't know how reliable he is, but his excerpt doesn't inspire much faith. Flacco, Eli, and Stafford over Wilson? Yikes.
Click to expand...
I've tended to enjoy half of the articles I've read of his (Which is decent for an nfl.com columnist).

But I struggle to see what Foles has really put on the board over Wilson.

People act like Seattle have an all-world oline and receiving corp as well........
Click to expand...
NFL record 7 TD game? Better TD%, better INT%, better offense? RW is terrific, absolutely, but he's been limited in his actual production (like 79 yards pass until the late 4th quarter vs NO for instance...). But Foles has put more "on the board."
Click to expand...
In an incredibly QB friendly system...

I like Foles a lot, and even though I just classified it s a QB-friendly system, he' would be a talented player anywhere. But lets not talk down Wilson's output and ranking based on 'friendly systems' (Which still has an average/below average Oline and had no receivers to speak of) and then talk up Foles for short term production that hasn't led to anything of note in a system designed to churn out yards with most anyone behind centre.

 
Sabertooth said:
proninja said:
Ghost Rider said:
Yeah, a single 24-yard pass is seriously gonna alter the YPA of a QB who threw nearly 400 yards passes that season. :lmao:
Click to expand...
Two playoff losses since and he still cares about that regular season call from 2012, huh? You'd think they'd be more upset about their more recent failures.
Click to expand...
Not really. They are going to win the Super Bowl this year. Everything else is in the past. I think on paper so far, nobody can hang with the Packers. Not even the Seahawks.
Click to expand...
Umm... it's supposed to go, 'The past is in the past' then you throw off your cloak and build an ice castle. Week one should answer a lot of questions :)

 
I wonder if the detractors have seen him play a lot. I say "a lot" because inevitably some dope will show up and say the only game they saw last year was one of the few where he struggled.

 
CapnJB said:
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that has nothing to do with having the best defense and one of the best running games, right? Some people walk into great situations and some don't. Being a high pick in the draft usually means you don't.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk, I know you guys are enjoying each other. Russell Wilson is a good QB and a good game manager. He's a great fit for a power running team that has a great defense. Do I think Alex Smith or someone similar could put up very similar numbers and win just as many games in Seattle? Yes.

I mean people in here are calling him a future Hall of Famer...comparing him to Drew Brees. Drew Brees hasn't thrown for less than 4388 yards in the past 8 years. The top QBs in the NFL are the main cogs in pass first offenses without elite defenses and are still contenders every year. Take away Lynch, replace the defense with an average or above average defense, and their stadium specifically engineered for noise with an average stadium and do you see Wilson leading this team to the playoffs year after year? I'm sure most of the people here do, but anybody with a level head wouldn't.

Russell Wilson is a good QB and the perfect fit for a complete team that just needs someone to not screw up. He's MUCH closer to Alex Smith than he is to Drew Brees.

 
steveski said:
CapnJB said:
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that has nothing to do with having the best defense and one of the best running games, right? Some people walk into great situations and some don't. Being a high pick in the draft usually means you don't.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk, I know you guys are enjoying each other. Russell Wilson is a good QB and a good game manager. He's a great fit for a power running team that has a great defense. Do I think Alex Smith or someone similar could put up very similar numbers and win just as many games in Seattle? Yes.

I mean people in here are calling him a future Hall of Famer...comparing him to Drew Brees. Drew Brees hasn't thrown for less than 4388 yards in the past 8 years. The top QBs in the NFL are the main cogs in pass first offenses without elite defenses and are still contenders every year. Take away Lynch, replace the defense with an average or above average defense, and their stadium specifically engineered for noise with an average stadium and do you see Wilson leading this team to the playoffs year after year? I'm sure most of the people here do, but anybody with a level head wouldn't.

Russell Wilson is a good QB and the perfect fit for a complete team that just needs someone to not screw up. He's MUCH closer to Alex Smith than he is to Drew Brees.
Click to expand...
You missed a few. The 12th man sucks and it's a joke and stolen. Your Dad can beat up our Dad. Our Mothers are complete hookers. We've all got a tiny ****.

There, that satisfies everything you could possibly troll about and try to get a rise out of the average person. You were this close to the perfect post.

 
steveski said:
CapnJB said:
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that has nothing to do with having the best defense and one of the best running games, right? Some people walk into great situations and some don't. Being a high pick in the draft usually means you don't.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk, I know you guys are enjoying each other. Russell Wilson is a good QB and a good game manager. He's a great fit for a power running team that has a great defense. Do I think Alex Smith or someone similar could put up very similar numbers and win just as many games in Seattle? Yes.

I mean people in here are calling him a future Hall of Famer...comparing him to Drew Brees. Drew Brees hasn't thrown for less than 4388 yards in the past 8 years. The top QBs in the NFL are the main cogs in pass first offenses without elite defenses and are still contenders every year. Take away Lynch, replace the defense with an average or above average defense, and their stadium specifically engineered for noise with an average stadium and do you see Wilson leading this team to the playoffs year after year? I'm sure most of the people here do, but anybody with a level head wouldn't.

Russell Wilson is a good QB and the perfect fit for a complete team that just needs someone to not screw up. He's MUCH closer to Alex Smith than he is to Drew Brees.
Click to expand...
If you took the time to read and comprehend, I said on his way to the career path of Drew Brees. Are you aware that he played for the Chargers?
 
ImTheScientist said:
steveski said:
ImTheScientist said:
Best young QB in the game. The ring and stats don't lie.
Click to expand...
Have you heard of a guy named Andrew Luck? The guy with a horrible running game and a horrible defense that still takes his team to the playoffs?
Click to expand...
Hawks weren't a great team till Wilson arrived. You can make all the excuses you want..... The bottom line is the stats and the ring don't lie.
Click to expand...
Tell me what stats you are talking about? Are you talking about team wins? The fact that his team won the super bowl? That means that Russell Wilson is the best young qb and a future HOFer? Is every player on that team the best ever since they also contribute to the wins and super bowl?

 
JetMaxx said:
steveski said:
CapnJB said:
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that has nothing to do with having the best defense and one of the best running games, right? Some people walk into great situations and some don't. Being a high pick in the draft usually means you don't.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk, I know you guys are enjoying each other. Russell Wilson is a good QB and a good game manager. He's a great fit for a power running team that has a great defense. Do I think Alex Smith or someone similar could put up very similar numbers and win just as many games in Seattle? Yes.

I mean people in here are calling him a future Hall of Famer...comparing him to Drew Brees. Drew Brees hasn't thrown for less than 4388 yards in the past 8 years. The top QBs in the NFL are the main cogs in pass first offenses without elite defenses and are still contenders every year. Take away Lynch, replace the defense with an average or above average defense, and their stadium specifically engineered for noise with an average stadium and do you see Wilson leading this team to the playoffs year after year? I'm sure most of the people here do, but anybody with a level head wouldn't.

Russell Wilson is a good QB and the perfect fit for a complete team that just needs someone to not screw up. He's MUCH closer to Alex Smith than he is to Drew Brees.
Click to expand...
If you took the time to read and comprehend, I said on his way to the career path of Drew Brees. Are you aware that he played for the Chargers?
Click to expand...
What about his game is similar to Drew Brees? His height?

Tell me what about his game is more similar to Drew Brees than it is to Alex Smith?

 
Eli Manning has 2 super bowl rings and 2 super bowl MVP honors. I'm obviously a Giants fan but I never went around yelling that Eli is one of the best in the game today. The Giants had a great defense and a good running game those super bowl years. Eli was good enough at the QB position to get them by.

That's how I feel about Russell Wilson. He's a good player and he's a great fit for a complete team that just needs someone good enough at QB to not screw things up.

The people in here are talking like he's a top 5 QB right now. How do you expect the non Seahawks fans to take that serious?

I'd rather the people in here back up some of their claims with some stats or at least some reasoning instead of just calling me a troll and talk about Dads beating each other up or something.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
steveski said:
JetMaxx said:
steveski said:
CapnJB said:
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that has nothing to do with having the best defense and one of the best running games, right? Some people walk into great situations and some don't. Being a high pick in the draft usually means you don't.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk, I know you guys are enjoying each other. Russell Wilson is a good QB and a good game manager. He's a great fit for a power running team that has a great defense. Do I think Alex Smith or someone similar could put up very similar numbers and win just as many games in Seattle? Yes.

I mean people in here are calling him a future Hall of Famer...comparing him to Drew Brees. Drew Brees hasn't thrown for less than 4388 yards in the past 8 years. The top QBs in the NFL are the main cogs in pass first offenses without elite defenses and are still contenders every year. Take away Lynch, replace the defense with an average or above average defense, and their stadium specifically engineered for noise with an average stadium and do you see Wilson leading this team to the playoffs year after year? I'm sure most of the people here do, but anybody with a level head wouldn't.

Russell Wilson is a good QB and the perfect fit for a complete team that just needs someone to not screw up. He's MUCH closer to Alex Smith than he is to Drew Brees.
Click to expand...
If you took the time to read and comprehend, I said on his way to the career path of Drew Brees. Are you aware that he played for the Chargers?
Click to expand...
What about his game is similar to Drew Brees? His height?

Tell me what about his game is more similar to Drew Brees than it is to Alex Smith?
Click to expand...
Why do you keep missing the "career path" aspect of my argument? Tell me about Drew Brees' seasons in SD. His stats, supporting cast, what he was asked to do, character, work ethic, etc.

Wilson is actually better than Brees.

 
JetMaxx said:
steveski said:
JetMaxx said:
steveski said:
CapnJB said:
Wilson could lose his next 20 games and still have a better winning percentage than RGIII and Ryan Tannehill.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that has nothing to do with having the best defense and one of the best running games, right? Some people walk into great situations and some don't. Being a high pick in the draft usually means you don't.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk, I know you guys are enjoying each other. Russell Wilson is a good QB and a good game manager. He's a great fit for a power running team that has a great defense. Do I think Alex Smith or someone similar could put up very similar numbers and win just as many games in Seattle? Yes.

I mean people in here are calling him a future Hall of Famer...comparing him to Drew Brees. Drew Brees hasn't thrown for less than 4388 yards in the past 8 years. The top QBs in the NFL are the main cogs in pass first offenses without elite defenses and are still contenders every year. Take away Lynch, replace the defense with an average or above average defense, and their stadium specifically engineered for noise with an average stadium and do you see Wilson leading this team to the playoffs year after year? I'm sure most of the people here do, but anybody with a level head wouldn't.

Russell Wilson is a good QB and the perfect fit for a complete team that just needs someone to not screw up. He's MUCH closer to Alex Smith than he is to Drew Brees.
Click to expand...
If you took the time to read and comprehend, I said on his way to the career path of Drew Brees. Are you aware that he played for the Chargers?
Click to expand...
What about his game is similar to Drew Brees? His height?

Tell me what about his game is more similar to Drew Brees than it is to Alex Smith?
Click to expand...
Why do you keep missing the "career path" aspect of my argument?Tell me about Drew Brees' seasons in SD. His stats, supporting cast, what he was asked to do, character, work ethic, etc.

Wilson is actually better than Brees.
Click to expand...
I see that you keep dodging my question. Seems like a lot of tooting horns in here but no real information or reasoning to back up claims. Yes, I know that Brees didn't put up great numbers in SD. That team has a great running game and that was their main focus. Yes, Brees' numbers are similar to Wilsons numbers right now, which aren't exciting.

So your reasoning for saying that Wilson is better than Drew Brees and a future HOFer is what? Because Brees put up similar numbers early in his career? Lots of QBs complete 63% of their passes and throw for 3300 yards, why isn't Wilson similar to them? Why is he only similar to the elite ones?

 
On second thought....don't bother with the going back and forth and dodging my questions and only answering with more questions. I'll just slowly back out of here and let you guys continue where you left off.

I'll remind you where you guys left off:

Russell Wilson is better than Drew Brees. Russell Wilson is the best young QB in the NFL. His team won a super bowl so he is the best.

Enjoy!

 
steveski said:
Eli Manning has 2 super bowl rings and 2 super bowl MVP honors. I'm obviously a Giants fan but I never went around yelling that Eli is one of the best in the game today. The Giants had a great defense and a good running game those super bowl years. Eli was good enough at the QB position to get them by.

That's how I feel about Russell Wilson. He's a good player and he's a great fit for a complete team that just needs someone good enough at QB to not screw things up.

The people in here are talking like he's a top 5 QB right now. How do you expect the non Seahawks fans to take that serious?

I'd rather the people in here back up some of their claims with some stats or at least some reasoning instead of just calling me a troll and talk about Dads beating each other up or something.
Click to expand...
Ok...

You keep explaining away how horrible the Indy defense was, yet they actually allowed the 9th fewest points in the league in 2013. Then you discuss a huge advantage in the run game but once you take away QB rushing yardage the difference across the entire season is 283 yards, or roughly 17 yards per game.

So how would you quantify how much of an advantage that gives Wilson?

Now let's discuss QB metrics. Luck threw 28% more than Wilson did yet only had 23% more completions--and I suspect you would agree that the Indy WRs are better than Seattle's right? So simply put, Luck is expected to be the reason for the dip in completion percentage. Luck only had 23 TDs vs. Wilson's 27. His completion percentage was lower and his yards per pass attempt was lower. His INT rate is better than Wilson's for certain and he put up more yards but just because of the workload. It's like comparing BJGE to Gio Bernard and saying "well, he's a better runner because he has more yards rushing".

By your argument so far you would say that Andy Dalton is better than Andrew Luck because the difference in defense points is 1.9 a game, he has more passing yards and more TDs. If I were you I'd start using Andy Dalton as your guy, not Luck. Or more likely, sometimes accumulative stats don't actually mean too much.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
steveski said:
Eli Manning has 2 super bowl rings and 2 super bowl MVP honors. I'm obviously a Giants fan but I never went around yelling that Eli is one of the best in the game today.
Click to expand...
Well, Eli has never been one of the best in the game. So there has never been reason to go around yelling that he is/was.

That doesn't have much to do with Russell Wilson.

 
So the Seahawks are too good to be able to call their QB exceptional? I don't think he can be reasonably compared to the proven elite QBs in the league, but I think it's fair to say that last season's playoff exit falls on defense and special teams despite Wilson giving them every opportunity to win with a gutty fourth quarter comeback.

If I was to compare him to the other top QBs, this might be one way that I could see how he belongs in the high Tier 2 of NFL QBs:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/6/15/5811722/defense-adjusted-ypa-efficiency-for-playoff-qbs

 
JetMaxx said:
Wilson is actually better than Brees.
Click to expand...
:lmao: I love Wilson, but GTFO with the "better than Brees." Young Roethlisberger is the best comp IMO other than the size difference. Very efficient for a young player, a winner, but obviously not the main piece of his team or even on the offense. Drew Brees carries his team on his shoulders and shatters records, guy. Wilson is just one cog in the machine thus far in Seattle. Let's wait just a bit before we say he's better than a 1st ballot HOFer, mmmmkay? He's off to a great start, obviously, but he's nowhere near the Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers tier of current NFL QBs. He might get there eventually, but he might not and end up as an Aikman / Big Ben type -- not that there's any shame in that at all as that's HOF level in itself, but it's a giant step up from there to the "top few QBs ever," the guys re-writing the record books and carrying entire franchises on their backs to Lombardi trophies, where Brees ends up when it's all said and done.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
steveski said:
The people in here are talking like he's a top 5 QB right now. How do you expect the non Seahawks fans to take that serious?

I'd rather the people in here back up some of their claims with some stats
Click to expand...
Here you go:

  1. NFL ROY in 2012.
  2. Made the Pro Bowl in first two seasons. Other QBs to make the last 2 Pro Bowls: Brady, Brees, Luck, Peyton. That's pretty good company. Also, how many QBs have made the Pro Bowl in their first two seasons? I don't know the answer, but I expect it is pretty select company.
  3. Approximate Value: Wilson was tied for #5 in 2012 and tied for #3 in 2013.
  4. Passer Rating: Wilson was #4 in 2012 and #7 in 2013.
  5. Passing TDs: Wilson was #9 in both 2012 and 2013. But that was on low attempts. He was #2 in 2012 and #3 in 2013 in passing TD percentage.
  6. YPA: Wilson was #4 in both 2012 and 2013.
  7. YPC: Wilson was #5 in 2012 and #3 in 2013.
  8. AY/A: Wilson was #6 in 2012 and #5 in 2013.
  9. Game winning drives: Wilson had 5 in both 2012 and 2013. That ranked him #3 in 2012 and #1 in 2013.
  10. Comebacks: Wilson had 4 in both 2012 and 2013. That ranked him #3 in 2012 and #2 in 2013.
  11. PFF QB ratings: Wilson was the #6 overall QB in 2012 and #4 overall QB in 2013. He ranked #8 in both years for passing only and #2 in both years for running only.
  12. PFF QB Rating (accounts for throwaways, spikes, and drops): Wilson was #4 in 2012 and #5 in 2013.
  13. PFF QB Deep Passing (attempts 20+ yards downfield, accounts for drops): Wilson was #5 in 2012 and #1 in 2013.
  14. Record: 24-8 regular season, 4-1 postseason. How many QBs have started their careers better? Again, select company.
  15. Postseason performance: 2 comebacks and 2 game winning drives in 5 games; 102 passer rating is better than his 100.6 regular season passer rating; 6 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 interception; 1 Super Bowl championship.
Wilson accomplished all of these things despite the following:

  • Starting from day one as a rookie; he is still just 25.
  • Below average receiving corps (Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Kearse, Miller, et al.).
  • Below average OL, which led to Wilson being under pressure on his dropbacks more than any other QB in 2013 and more than all but Vick in 2012.
 
Coeur de Lion said:
JetMaxx said:
Wilson is actually better than Brees.
Click to expand...
:lmao: I love Wilson, but GTFO with the "better than Brees." Young Roethlisberger is the best comp IMO other than the size difference. Very efficient for a young player, a winner, but obviously not the main piece of his team or even on the offense. Drew Brees carries his team on his shoulders and shatters records, guy. Wilson is just one cog in the machine thus far in Seattle. Let's wait just a bit before we say he's better than a 1st ballot HOFer, mmmmkay? He's off to a great start, obviously, but he's nowhere near the Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers tier of current NFL QBs. He might get there eventually, but he might not and end up as an Aikman / Big Ben type -- not that there's any shame in that at all as that's HOF level in itself, but it's a giant step up from there to the "top few QBs ever," the guys re-writing the record books and carrying entire franchises on their backs to Lombardi trophies, where Brees ends up when it's all said and done.
Click to expand...
Regarding Brees, I agree he isn't better today. Wilson's first two seasons were better than Brees's first two seasons, by a large margin. I think that was the original point. But the first two seasons of a lot of non-HOF QBs were better than Brees's first two seasons, so that isn't very meaningful.

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers are all seasoned veterans. Wilson is 25. He has shown enough potential that he could ultimately belong in that tier. Even now, he is in the next tier, and arguably as good as anyone in that next tier. That is the argument for claiming he is a top 5 QB.

And over the next three years, Peyton, Brady, and Brees will either retire or almost certainly decline, while at the same time odds are that the Seattle defense and running game (Lynch) will decline. Wilson will be in his prime and IMO will be in that top tier within that window.

So to say he is "nowhere near" the top tier is overstating it IMO.

 
Just Win Baby said:
steveski said:
The people in here are talking like he's a top 5 QB right now. How do you expect the non Seahawks fans to take that serious?

I'd rather the people in here back up some of their claims with some stats
Click to expand...
Here you go:

  1. NFL ROY in 2012.
  2. Made the Pro Bowl in first two seasons. Other QBs to make the last 2 Pro Bowls: Brady, Brees, Luck, Peyton. That's pretty good company. Also, how many QBs have made the Pro Bowl in their first two seasons? I don't know the answer, but I expect it is pretty select company.
  3. Approximate Value: Wilson was tied for #5 in 2012 and tied for #3 in 2013.
  4. Passer Rating: Wilson was #4 in 2012 and #7 in 2013.
  5. Passing TDs: Wilson was #9 in both 2012 and 2013. But that was on low attempts. He was #2 in 2012 and #3 in 2013 in passing TD percentage.
  6. YPA: Wilson was #4 in both 2012 and 2013.
  7. YPC: Wilson was #5 in 2012 and #3 in 2013.
  8. AY/A: Wilson was #6 in 2012 and #5 in 2013.
  9. Game winning drives: Wilson had 5 in both 2012 and 2013. That ranked him #3 in 2012 and #1 in 2013.
  10. Comebacks: Wilson had 4 in both 2012 and 2013. That ranked him #3 in 2012 and #2 in 2013.
  11. PFF QB ratings: Wilson was the #6 overall QB in 2012 and #4 overall QB in 2013. He ranked #8 in both years for passing only and #2 in both years for running only.
  12. PFF QB Rating (accounts for throwaways, spikes, and drops): Wilson was #4 in 2012 and #5 in 2013.
  13. PFF QB Deep Passing (attempts 20+ yards downfield, accounts for drops): Wilson was #5 in 2012 and #1 in 2013.
  14. Record: 24-8 regular season, 4-1 postseason. How many QBs have started their careers better? Again, select company.
  15. Postseason performance: 2 comebacks and 2 game winning drives in 5 games; 102 passer rating is better than his 100.6 regular season passer rating; 6 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 interception; 1 Super Bowl championship.
Wilson accomplished all of these things despite the following:

  • Starting from day one as a rookie; he is still just 25.
  • Below average receiving corps (Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Kearse, Miller, et al.).
  • Below average OL, which led to Wilson being under pressure on his dropbacks more than any other QB in 2013 and more than all but Vick in 2012.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Appreciate the #'s instead of just being a crazed fan that just spews out garbage.

My opinion doesn't change though. I think he's a good QB in a perfect situation. I think a lot of his numbers are helped by the fact that teams are worried about stopping the run first. The top QBs in the league are outperforming him even though defenses are keying on stopping them. I came in here initially because I liked him. I drafted him in a startup less than a month ago. Traded him shortly after, but the fact that I drafted him shows that I don't dislike him.

My hate of the Seahawks fanboyism in this thread made it come across like I'm a doubter of Wilson. I'm not a Wilson hater or doubter. I'm just against fanboys of any team. There is no way Wilson is better than Drew Brees. I understand that fanboys for the Seahawks will be bigger than ever now coming off of a super bowl. There always are.

I wish there was a Russell Wilson Bandwagon thread and a separate Seattle Seahawks Bandwagon thread so that this thread could actually discuss Russell Wilson and how it relates to fantasy football.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Coeur de Lion said:
JetMaxx said:
Wilson is actually better than Brees.
Click to expand...
:lmao: I love Wilson, but GTFO with the "better than Brees." Young Roethlisberger is the best comp IMO other than the size difference. Very efficient for a young player, a winner, but obviously not the main piece of his team or even on the offense. Drew Brees carries his team on his shoulders and shatters records, guy. Wilson is just one cog in the machine thus far in Seattle. Let's wait just a bit before we say he's better than a 1st ballot HOFer, mmmmkay? He's off to a great start, obviously, but he's nowhere near the Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers tier of current NFL QBs. He might get there eventually, but he might not and end up as an Aikman / Big Ben type -- not that there's any shame in that at all as that's HOF level in itself, but it's a giant step up from there to the "top few QBs ever," the guys re-writing the record books and carrying entire franchises on their backs to Lombardi trophies, where Brees ends up when it's all said and done.
Click to expand...
Regarding Brees, I agree he isn't better today. Wilson's first two seasons were better than Brees's first two seasons, by a large margin. I think that was the original point. But the first two seasons of a lot of non-HOF QBs were better than Brees's first two seasons, so that isn't very meaningful.

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers are all seasoned veterans. Wilson is 25. He has shown enough potential that he could ultimately belong in that tier. Even now, he is in the next tier, and arguably as good as anyone in that next tier. That is the argument for claiming he is a top 5 QB.

And over the next three years, Peyton, Brady, and Brees will either retire or almost certainly decline, while at the same time odds are that the Seattle defense and running game (Lynch) will decline. Wilson will be in his prime and IMO will be in that top tier within that window.

So to say he is "nowhere near" the top tier is overstating it IMO.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't disagree too much with most of this really, outside of standing on my "nowhere near" statement. I personally see a vast gulf between the top four and the next tier of Roethlisberger, Rivers, Luck, Wilson, etc.

Either way, Wilson is a great young QB. But Brees is one of the best ever, and saying Wilson is better based on comparing their first two seasons is absurd. Wilson might take a huge step up, he might hold steady, he might even regress. Who knows? But after two years of strong play in a (mostly) supporting / managing role he's got a long, long ways to go before he can be legitimately mentioned in a conversation with Drew freaking Brees.

 
steveski said:
Just Win Baby said:
steveski said:
The people in here are talking like he's a top 5 QB right now. How do you expect the non Seahawks fans to take that serious?

I'd rather the people in here back up some of their claims with some stats
Click to expand...
Here you go:

  1. NFL ROY in 2012.
  2. Made the Pro Bowl in first two seasons. Other QBs to make the last 2 Pro Bowls: Brady, Brees, Luck, Peyton. That's pretty good company. Also, how many QBs have made the Pro Bowl in their first two seasons? I don't know the answer, but I expect it is pretty select company.
  3. Approximate Value: Wilson was tied for #5 in 2012 and tied for #3 in 2013.
  4. Passer Rating: Wilson was #4 in 2012 and #7 in 2013.
  5. Passing TDs: Wilson was #9 in both 2012 and 2013. But that was on low attempts. He was #2 in 2012 and #3 in 2013 in passing TD percentage.
  6. YPA: Wilson was #4 in both 2012 and 2013.
  7. YPC: Wilson was #5 in 2012 and #3 in 2013.
  8. AY/A: Wilson was #6 in 2012 and #5 in 2013.
  9. Game winning drives: Wilson had 5 in both 2012 and 2013. That ranked him #3 in 2012 and #1 in 2013.
  10. Comebacks: Wilson had 4 in both 2012 and 2013. That ranked him #3 in 2012 and #2 in 2013.
  11. PFF QB ratings: Wilson was the #6 overall QB in 2012 and #4 overall QB in 2013. He ranked #8 in both years for passing only and #2 in both years for running only.
  12. PFF QB Rating (accounts for throwaways, spikes, and drops): Wilson was #4 in 2012 and #5 in 2013.
  13. PFF QB Deep Passing (attempts 20+ yards downfield, accounts for drops): Wilson was #5 in 2012 and #1 in 2013.
  14. Record: 24-8 regular season, 4-1 postseason. How many QBs have started their careers better? Again, select company.
  15. Postseason performance: 2 comebacks and 2 game winning drives in 5 games; 102 passer rating is better than his 100.6 regular season passer rating; 6 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 interception; 1 Super Bowl championship.
Wilson accomplished all of these things despite the following:

  • Starting from day one as a rookie; he is still just 25.
  • Below average receiving corps (Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Kearse, Miller, et al.).
  • Below average OL, which led to Wilson being under pressure on his dropbacks more than any other QB in 2013 and more than all but Vick in 2012.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Appreciate the #'s instead of just being a crazed fan that just spews out garbage.

My opinion doesn't change though. I think he's a good QB in a perfect situation. I think a lot of his numbers are helped by the fact that teams are worried about stopping the run first. The top QBs in the league are outperforming him even though defenses are keying on stopping them. I came in here initially because I liked him. I drafted him in a startup less than a month ago. Traded him shortly after, but the fact that I drafted him shows that I don't dislike him.

My hate of the Seahawks fanboyism in this thread made it come across like I'm a doubter of Wilson. I'm not a Wilson hater or doubter. I'm just against fanboys of any team. There is no way Wilson is better than Drew Brees. I understand that fanboys for the Seahawks will be bigger than ever now coming off of a super bowl. There always are.

I wish there was a Russell Wilson Bandwagon thread and a separate Seattle Seahawks Bandwagon thread so that this thread could actually discuss Russell Wilson and how it relates to fantasy football.
Click to expand...
I think he's a QB in a situation. Thinking that situation is perfect (or merely perfect for him) might simply reflect your bias in terms of what you think Wilson is, can be or can't be. It's been stated that his o-line and receiving corp are hardly a "dream team". I don't think that's perfect.

I have no idea if Wilson can be a pocket passer putting up a bazillion yards and points but I don't know he can't either.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Soulfly3
Shoot Your Shot - NFL Draft Edition
Replies
18
Views
511
titusbramble
titusbramble
ignatiusjreilly
How many first-round QBs will actually pan out?
Replies
12
Views
360
ignatiusjreilly
ignatiusjreilly
dschuler
DSchuler’s QB Change Probability: 4 new starters, more on the way? Packers accumulate draft assets, Cardinals back in play for #1 pick
2 3
Replies
103
Views
5K
Long Ball Larry
Long Ball Larry

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Top