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Agree totally that his WRs and o-line have been pretty far from perfect. I've also long been a buyer on all of Wilson, Harvin, Baldwin, Wilson etc, all of the various parts of the Seattle passing game. Due to the nature of the NFL, it's going to be pretty tough to keep that defense 100% intact moving forward, and Wilson certainly looks good enough to thrive if and when they open things up and step on the gas. That said, IMO he's far more likely to eventually jump from the low 3000s to the low/mid 4000s in passing yardage with low 30s TDs vs the huge and radical leap into the 5000+ / 40+ on over 650 attempts type range occupied by the true elites. That's a lot to ask from any player, and depends as much on system and surrounding talent as it does on the player himself.
Absolutely agree. But still, very well =/= best #s ever, regarding the Brees comp. I've said the same thing to people banging the FF drum for Luck BTW. We're lucky enough to be currently in an era where we get to watch four of the top QBs ever play every week, and they're pretty much all in hugely pass heavy offenses for the most part. Those guys have set the bar EXTREMELY high and it's probably pretty unrealistic to expect ANY of the current young crop to reach those levels.
Wilson has excelled at everything he has ever been asked to do in football, both in the NFL and in two separate major college conferences. There is no reason to doubt that he will play very well when Seattle inevitably needs more from their passing game to win.
NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
So your contention is that Wilson is as good a QB, right now, as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers? You give the rest of the Seattle fans on here a bad name, guy.NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
My contention was he is the best young QB in the game....read up a few posts kid. The QBs you listed .... are they young? If I had to choose one QB for my franchise today and into the future I would pick Wilson above those guys fwiw. He has many more years of life then they do.So your contention is that Wilson is as good a QB, right now, as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers? You give the rest of the Seattle fans on here a bad name, guy.NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
So even though he isn't asked to do what those guys have done and hasn't done anything near what those guys have done, you still have him ranked up there with them? There are a lot of QBs that also haven't done those things, are they near the top as well?My contention was he is the best young QB in the game....read up a few posts kid. The QBs you listed .... are they young? If I had to choose one QB for my franchise today and into the future I would pick Wilson above those guys fwiw. He has many more years of life then they do.So your contention is that Wilson is as good a QB, right now, as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers? You give the rest of the Seattle fans on here a bad name, guy.NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
Do I think he is as good as those QBs listed? I would say he is right there with them. He isn't asked to do what they do but then again they are not asked to do what Wilson does.
Funny you mention that group..... Wilson is 5-0 against that group with a super bowl victory against one.
Responses above.So even though he isn't asked to do what those guys have done and hasn't done anything near what those guys have done, you still have him ranked up there with them? There are a lot of QBs that also haven't done those things, are they near the top as well? Yes, do you have Steven Jackson ranked above Eddie Lacey.... Jackson has done wayyyyy more.....at this point in their careers I would prefer Lacey over Jackson (for example)My contention was he is the best young QB in the game....read up a few posts kid. The QBs you listed .... are they young? If I had to choose one QB for my franchise today and into the future I would pick Wilson above those guys fwiw. He has many more years of life then they do.So your contention is that Wilson is as good a QB, right now, as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers? You give the rest of the Seattle fans on here a bad name, guy.NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
Do I think he is as good as those QBs listed? I would say he is right there with them. He isn't asked to do what they do but then again they are not asked to do what Wilson does.
Funny you mention that group..... Wilson is 5-0 against that group with a super bowl victory against one.
You say that Wilson is 5-0 against that group of QBs but also say that the Seahawks don't rely on Wilson to carry the team. If it's a knock on Wilson's stats, you say it's because the Seahawks don't need him to do any more than that. If it's wins and super bowls, you give him all the credit. So which one is it? First, I didn't say that what is underlined. Second, its not black or white, stats or super bowl. Wouldn't you agree QBs are judged on the total package, super bowl, win percentage, stats, wins head to head against other QBs?
My opinion is that Wilson is being used as a game manager. I don't know how good he could be if he was put in a situation where they needed him to be the playmaker. Wilson is a part (small part in my mind) to a team that won a super bowl. When a non Seahawks fans thinks of the Seahawks the first thing that comes to mind is defense or possibly Lynch. When you say Broncos, Saints, or Packers, what is the first name that comes to your mind? I don't agree with any of your opinion. RE: Non seahawk fans comment.....Do you know which player leads the NFL in jersey sales? RE: Game Manager/Playmaker .... you clearly don't watch the Seahawks or know what Pete Carrol asks of him.
Please stop making me hate Seahawks fans. I don't like to judge a whole group of people on just a select few, but those select few are so awful it makes it hard not to.
Is that meant to be an insult? If so you are wasting your words and need a little creativity in your troll attempt. If its serious and not a troll I feel honored to have such an impact on you....
"The most interesting piece though, I think, is from Mike Sando at ESPN.com (insider). For it, Sando "asked 26 league insiders to grade every projected starting quarterback on a 1-5 scale, with 'one' reserved for the best and 'five' for the worst. Eight general managers, two former GMs, four pro personnel evaluators, seven coordinators, two head coaches, two position coaches and a top executive participated."So even though he isn't asked to do what those guys have done and hasn't done anything near what those guys have done, you still have him ranked up there with them? There are a lot of QBs that also haven't done those things, are they near the top as well?My contention was he is the best young QB in the game....read up a few posts kid. The QBs you listed .... are they young? If I had to choose one QB for my franchise today and into the future I would pick Wilson above those guys fwiw. He has many more years of life then they do.So your contention is that Wilson is as good a QB, right now, as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers? You give the rest of the Seattle fans on here a bad name, guy.NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
Do I think he is as good as those QBs listed? I would say he is right there with them. He isn't asked to do what they do but then again they are not asked to do what Wilson does.
Funny you mention that group..... Wilson is 5-0 against that group with a super bowl victory against one.
You say that Wilson is 5-0 against that group of QBs but also say that the Seahawks don't rely on Wilson to carry the team. If it's a knock on Wilson's stats, you say it's because the Seahawks don't need him to do any more than that. If it's wins and super bowls, you give him all the credit. So which one is it?
My opinion is that Wilson is being used as a game manager. I don't know how good he could be if he was put in a situation where they needed him to be the playmaker. Wilson is a part (small part in my mind) to a team that won a super bowl. When a non Seahawks fans thinks of the Seahawks the first thing that comes to mind is defense or possibly Lynch. When you say Broncos, Saints, or Packers, what is the first name that comes to your mind?
Please stop making me hate Seahawks fans. I don't like to judge a whole group of people on just a select few, but those select few are so awful it makes it hard not to.
Ditto.Responses above.So even though he isn't asked to do what those guys have done and hasn't done anything near what those guys have done, you still have him ranked up there with them? There are a lot of QBs that also haven't done those things, are they near the top as well? Yes, do you have Steven Jackson ranked above Eddie Lacey.... Jackson has done wayyyyy more.....at this point in their careers I would prefer Lacey over Jackson (for example)My contention was he is the best young QB in the game....read up a few posts kid. The QBs you listed .... are they young? If I had to choose one QB for my franchise today and into the future I would pick Wilson above those guys fwiw. He has many more years of life then they do.So your contention is that Wilson is as good a QB, right now, as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers? You give the rest of the Seattle fans on here a bad name, guy.NFL players voted him number 20 in the NFL top 100 players. Are they biased? I love that everything points towards you being wrong yet you insist on trying to win the internet.
Do I think he is as good as those QBs listed? I would say he is right there with them. He isn't asked to do what they do but then again they are not asked to do what Wilson does.
Funny you mention that group..... Wilson is 5-0 against that group with a super bowl victory against one.
I don't understand what you're getting at? Of course I'd rather have Lacy now. He's a better player than SJax. I'd also not put Wilson in that top tier of QBs right now. Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning are better than him. I'm not saying they were. They are.
You say that Wilson is 5-0 against that group of QBs but also say that the Seahawks don't rely on Wilson to carry the team. If it's a knock on Wilson's stats, you say it's because the Seahawks don't need him to do any more than that. If it's wins and super bowls, you give him all the credit. So which one is it? First, I didn't say that what is underlined. Second, its not black or white, stats or super bowl. Wouldn't you agree QBs are judged on the total package, super bowl, win percentage, stats, wins head to head against other QBs? You obviously must weigh the wins and total package more than you value the individual stats. No, I don't factor in head to head against other QBs. QBs dont play against other QBs. They play against defenses. The Seahawks happened to have the best defense. The defense stopped those other QBs, not Wilson. Wilson didn't go out and throw for 400 yards and 5 TD's in those games against those teams, did he?
My opinion is that Wilson is being used as a game manager. I don't know how good he could be if he was put in a situation where they needed him to be the playmaker. Wilson is a part (small part in my mind) to a team that won a super bowl. When a non Seahawks fans thinks of the Seahawks the first thing that comes to mind is defense or possibly Lynch. When you say Broncos, Saints, or Packers, what is the first name that comes to your mind? I don't agree with any of your opinion. RE: Non seahawk fans comment.....Do you know which player leads the NFL in jersey sales? RE: Game Manager/Playmaker .... you clearly don't watch the Seahawks or know what Pete Carrol asks of him.
Who cares about jersey sales? That only proves my bandwagon statement point even more.
Please stop making me hate Seahawks fans. I don't like to judge a whole group of people on just a select few, but those select few are so awful it makes it hard not to.
Is that meant to be an insult? If so you are wasting your words and need a little creativity in your troll attempt. If its serious and not a troll I feel honored to have such an impact on you....
I'm the troll? Haha. There's a reason that everybody hates all of your posts all over this forum. All you do is talk about how you like the Seahawks. It's obnoxious. You've heard it many times before, but I'll say it again. You give the real Seahawks fans a really bad name.
Brady has earned the benefit of the doubt to be given a pass on one down year during which he basically had to deal with a perfect storm of crap re: the offensive skill players around him IMO. If he has another bad (by his lofty standards, anyway) year in 2014, I'll be far more inclined to believe that he's declined.
I respect Brady, and certainly he had to deal with some unforeseen changes to his offensive personnel, but do you then give Wilson a little nod for losing his top 2 receivers and working behind a backup/hobbled oline and making those deficiencies appear negligible?
As stated above, I love Wilson, and yes, he was great last year. But I'm not ready to say he's as good as Brady yet. Brady basically lost his entire receiving corps, and was still pretty respectable despite being asked to throw 628 times to a rotating cast of rookies and career special teamers. Wilson was great last year, but Seattle wins games with ball control and defense. I'd prefer Wilson long term obviously, in both FF and in the NFL, but given neutral surrounding casts, I'd still take Tom Brady to win one game in 2014. That's absolutely no knock on Wilson; Tom Brady is one of the best QBs ever to lace up a pair of cleats. The only guy even remotely arguable two years in would be Dan Marino IMO.
Wilson is remotely arguable in his first two years, and this assumes of course that you don't count 2000 as Brady's first season.
I'm arguing current Brady vs current Wilson in response to those putting him in the top tier already.
I see what you did there. But in reality since winning the Super Bowl no team has been as injured as the Packers. If the odds level out for them, they are still the best team in the NFL.cstu said:Ha Ha is going to fix their defense? Ha Ha.Sabertooth said:Not really. They are going to win the Super Bowl this year. Everything else is in the past. I think on paper so far, nobody can hang with the Packers. Not even the Seahawks.proninja said:Two playoff losses since and he still cares about that regular season call from 2012, huh? You'd think they'd be more upset about their more recent failures.Yeah, a single 24-yard pass is seriously gonna alter the YPA of a QB who threw nearly 400 yards passes that season.
Took me a minute but I got this one. Lol.CapnJB said:Umm... it's supposed to go, 'The past is in the past' then you throw off your cloak and build an ice castle. Week one should answer a lot of questionsSabertooth said:Not really. They are going to win the Super Bowl this year. Everything else is in the past. I think on paper so far, nobody can hang with the Packers. Not even the Seahawks.proninja said:Two playoff losses since and he still cares about that regular season call from 2012, huh? You'd think they'd be more upset about their more recent failures.Yeah, a single 24-yard pass is seriously gonna alter the YPA of a QB who threw nearly 400 yards passes that season.
A Seahawks pep rally? So, talking up a great player means it is a pep rally? Let's be serious. Hell, I am a Broncos fan, so I don't have much love for the Seahawks in light of what happened at the Super Bowl, but I have to call it like I see it: Russell Wilson is a great quarterback. Not top 4 yet, but he's in that next tier.
As usual there is confusion about whether the discussion is about FF and sheer numbers, or efficiency numbers like YPA (which Foles led by a good margin too btw), or actual sheer innate talent, big play ability and leadership.Kree said:
Seahawks fanboyism? Your opinion would carry a lot more weight if you would direct statements like this at single posters instead of generalizing it towards the entire Seattle fanbase. Be specific, please. No one posters speaks for all Seattle fans.
Again, who are you directing this towards? The Seattle fans that post here are few. There's not many of us, and the few us have been posting here for a long time.
Both have great but not elite tools. Both have had success care taking offenses to Super Bowls, both have limitations, but have had great early success despite them.
IMO expecting "more than Roethlisberger" out of any young QB is a sucker bet. Ben suffers in comparison to the big four, but in any other era he's one of the few best QBs in the NFL. He's a borderline HOFer in his own right.
agreed.
Their skill sets are nothing alike and Big Ben is a guy who threw it significantly fewer times than even Wilson his first two years in the league. While his numbers were respectable tossing it <300 times a year, the first time he went over 400 attempts he struggled. Mightily.And yet you are still selling Roethlesberger short. Both are elite in aspects of their games. Difference being that Big Ben isn't likely to improve from here on out.
I think the best way to really discuss fantasy football most of the time is through the guise of actual football discussion.
so am I selling Russell short or selling Ben short? Or somehow selling them both short?
i agree he's been a boom to the offense but I don't see him moving much higher in terms of fantasy production that top 7 or so. In real football he's great and a great fit for what they are trying to do. In fantasy he was 9th last year and will probably be around the same this year. I have him behind:Manning
Injury to himself, no. But he has had to deal with extensive injuries to his offensive line and receivers. Yet still he excelled.
"First, let's eliminate some quarterbacks and teams from contention.ImTheScientist said:
The author is trying to define "young" for a quarterback. Rodgers will turn 31 in December. What qualifies as young for you? What's your cut off?"First, let's eliminate some quarterbacks and teams from contention.ImTheScientist said:
Quarterbacks who are "too old" to bother making the comparison with: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer
I don't think that Rodgers is too old. I think every team should want to start with Rodgers. And since I don't want to lose any debate, I'm skipping him."
Im guessing they pass on average only 2-3 more times a game this year. You will however see a much more explosive WR group/offense. I can see Russell finishing around QB 5-7.
I tend to agree here and it would take something unforeseen (injury, for example) to change drastically from what worked last season. But I do believe the thread of Harvin is what will make a major difference. Against the Chargers he was forcing coverage to shift with him and led directly to Zach Miller being wide open. Last year there was a similar instance (and not the same play) where the safety following Percy led to a Doug Baldwin deep catch up the right sideline.
That is what I'm expecting as well
