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WR Josh Gordon, KC


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The Gordon case remains tricky as his failed test took place before new league year, which is when grandfathering in new rules would begin

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/510145906659061760

Again, the language in the agreement is key- WIll the new marijuana policy be applied to all players suspended in 2014 (league year), or will it only apply to players who tested positive during the current year? If it's the former, then Gordon will be reinstated immediately. If it's the latter, then we might be screwed.

I don't know...why go through all the negotiations and back-and-forth only to have this still be an issue? It just seems arbitrary.

I agree that the time of positive test is a morally arbitrary factor and hence it's not fair that Gordon remains suspended while, say, Welker is immediately reinstated. However, amnestying players who failed tests in 2013 might open up a can of worms that the NFL doesn't want to deal with, e.g., some players have already served their suspensions in full and might want compensation, etc.

It isn't a can of worms. Anyone who is currently being punished for a rule that no longer exists they should be "set free". If the rule changes the punishment currently being served must be adjusted.

This isn't about retroactively lifting suspensions, it is about looking at players currently being punished for a rule that no longer exists.

The can of worms is the lawsuits the league opens themselves up to over lost wages for upholding a punishment that is no longer valid.

It is more than just Gordon or Welker playing, it is about the income they are losing and they will sue to get paid.

Okay. Then why did those people who were in prison for violating prohibition not immediately freed when it ended? Because they were in prison for breaking a law. Just because the law changed doesn't mean they didn't break it.

Gordon broke a rule. He was punished. If the rule changed AFTERWARDS, Marty McFly didn't pull up in his Delorean and go back in time so Gordon never smoked the dope. He still broke the rule that was in place at that time.

If they didn't want to lose the income, they shouldn't have smoked up or taken Molly/amphetamines/adderal, whatever he took.

It isn't illegal to offer retroactive ameliorative relief in the US, generally those convicted would seek a pardon if the Law changed in their favor. While such a relief would not be guaranteed it isn't impossible and in fact, the US is one if the few Nations that doesn't offer guaranteed retroactive ameliorative relief of overturned laws in the world.

Just Free Josh Gordon already, there is no retroactive or legal can of worms to do so.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/01/02/no-relief-convicted

So you cite an article that shows IN THE UNITED STATES, it is not standard practice to forgive people for breaking laws if/when those laws change as support for the idea that Josh Gordon SHOULD BE forgiven for breaking a rule if/when that rule changes? And Josh Gordon does live in the United States, and the NFL is headquartered in the United States? The NFLPA is a labor organization in the United States?

Um...what's your point again? :confused:

The argument by those who say "if the rule changes, Gordon should automatically get off" is wrong. Can he get off? Sure, the NFL and NFLPA are evidently negotiating about that, but that doesn't mean he DESERVES to get off. There was a rule, he knew what the rule was, he knew what the punishment was, he broke the rule, he was given the agreed upon punishment. IF things change and he gets some/all of that punishment forgiven, he got lucky & good for him, but he DESERVES no forgiveness, despite the policies of other nations (or even the policies of the United States, as this is a matter of labor relations, rather than US law).

It is simple. There is no legal reason that Gordon's suspension can't be lifted because the law rule changed during his punishment.

There is no law against it in the US. It is simply a matter of process. It also doesn't mean that he will be let off the hook either, but stating that the "NFL can't lift his suspension because he smoked in 13 and the rule changed in 14 doesn't affect him" is wrong.

They have no legal obligation to lift his suspension but they also have no legal reason to keep him suspended either.

There must be some downside for the NFL if they grant amnesty to 2013 violators. Otherwise, they would grandfather in all players currently being disciplined under the old policy instead of just those who failed tests in 2014.

I can't disagree with that at all. But it is more likely logistical AND circumstantial more than any legal reason why they can't reinstate more players. Perhaps they are and we just don't know the list.

But for people to constantly say that the rule change doesn't or can't be applied to Gordon because he was busted last year I found ludicrous.

And lifting 8 games actually opens the door for Gordon to sue for pay for the other 8 games or fight for earlier reinstatement.

It depends on how things are written but basically, if the rules changed and he is below the punishable threshold and that was enough to lift 8 games then he has a case to be made that all remaining games should be lifted plus pay for the two already served.

Once it was determined that in his case the rule change was significantly in his favor to lift 8 games there really is no reason to even suspend him for the other 8 other than they want the image of remaining tough.

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I'm still trying not to get too excited/optimistic about him being reinstated this season, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the people who don't own him anywhere losing their **** over it.

I don't own him in any league and I'm not upset over it in anyway. In my dynasty leagues the teams that owned him were the ones "screwed" in the first place (and I didn't count it as a win for me - most good owners have depth anyway) and in my one redraft, the guy that drafted him in round 8 (or 9?) took on all the risk for any potential reward that came from it. That's the way risk/reward is supposed to work.

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I still don't get why his suspension would be reduced. He wouldn't have popped positive at all under the new policy. Should be erased entirely.

ETA: But I'll happily take 8 games.

Because he did "pop positive." The new policy wasn't in place then.

You can't go back in time. "I don't understand how she got pregnant; I bought condoms the day after we had sex. The pregnancy should never have happened."

If his suspension is reduced, he should just say "thank you." They could just as easily say "the suspensions already levied will remain in place."

So if it comes out today that a player was arrested last year for beating his wife, he wouldnt be subject to the new domestic violence policy but the old one?

How would it "come out today that a player was arrested last year?" You think the public records of arrests made would have been delayed for that long?

But, to play along, I would imagine that since the old policy was just Goodell using his discretion to hand out suspensions (since it is/was under the player conduct policy), he could enforce the new policy & say that was the punishment he felt justified, per his discretion. Since the drug policy was (and will be) clearly spelled out, he/the NFL doesn't have that leeway.

OK bad example but how about this. Person gets arrested for DUI with a blood alcohol content of .08 in 2013. His case is heard in 2014 and he is found guilty and sentenced to 30 days in jail. His first week in jail, the Supreme Court changes the legal limit to .10. Does that guy still stay in jail another 3 weeks?

I'd imagine that would be up to the state in which he was arrested for. They would be perfectly justified in enforcing his punishment, as that is the practice of the US legal system. They'd also have the option of voiding his sentence. This does not mean they are obligated to void his sentence, because there is no legal requirement that they do so. IF there were a legal requirement that required them to void his sentence if the law he broke became obsolete, that would be a different situation.

If the new policy does not require the NFL to void/shorten Gordon's sentence, then they don't have to do so, and he'd have no legal basis to sue, since the NFLPA, on his behalf, would have agreed to any new policy.

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So he gets a week or two in before his court appearance?

Gordon was due to appear in Wake County court Tuesday on charges of driving while impaired and speeding. Attorney Trey Fitzhugh says Gordon had a waiver to miss the pretrial appearance and the case is continued until Nov. 18.

Not laughing at you, but

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Cases take forever when both sides want them to move quickly. With Gordon dragging his heels, no chance there's a result on the DWI in 2014.

You're probably right but the case is in NC, it's not like it's in Ohio.

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There is no point in Gordon suing. 8 games is a win for him in terms of being vested in a league year. I would have negotiated to roll the DUI penalty into the 8 and allow him to practice with the team while suspended. As a guy who owns him I would prefer 6 just because I feel like 8 is so long to be away and get reintegrated but I guess I'll take it

Where he really wins is that he doesn't have to apply for reinstatement next year.

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I can't disagree with that at all. But it is more likely logistical AND circumstantial more than any legal reason why they can't reinstate more players. Perhaps they are and we just don't know the list.

But for people to constantly say that the rule change doesn't or can't be applied to Gordon because he was busted last year I found ludicrous.

And lifting 8 games actually opens the door for Gordon to sue for pay for the other 8 games or fight for earlier reinstatement.

It depends on how things are written but basically, if the rules changed and he is below the punishable threshold and that was enough to lift 8 games then he has a case to be made that all remaining games should be lifted plus pay for the two already served.

Once it was determined that in his case the rule change was significantly in his favor to lift 8 games there really is no reason to even suspend him for the other 8 other than they want the image of remaining tough.

The bolded is exactly right. IF the new policy is written in such a way that Gordon's failed test/suspension should fall under the new policy, he should not be suspended, AT ALL. If it is written in such a way that his failed test/suspension doesnt' fall under the new policy, then he has no legal grounds to get his suspension reduced. I would imagine that if the 8 game reports are true, the NFL is going to word the new policy in such a way that allows them to suspend him for 8 games. Since the NFLPA has to agree to a new policy (and Gordon would, by membership in teh NFLPA have to agree), then he'd have no grounds to sue.

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Wow.

The mods here must be sages.

Knew the perfect time to release me from my ban. PERFECTION.

Soulfly mode: Activated

What did you get banned for? Last time I noticed you here, you were (for you) on model behavior? :confused:

I dont have a clue what he got banned for. :shrug:

Oh, and I already got a PM from Soulfly with his excitement.

Get this out of the way now, quote me where before Gordons suspension of the time Soulfly said the CBA would be changed and that is what would allow Gordon to play?

I thought so, he is a bias Gordon owner who said he wouldnt get suspended, he did. Said his appeal would be over turned, it didnt. Then he said Gordon would sue, he didnt.

Now after the new deal that will be in place, he will still be suspended and is only getting out of it not because of his own actions or the league was wrong, but because the NFLPA exhausted every possible resource to get him off before having to make back room deals.

While Gordon may play and even I am happy about that, you have not been correct about anything what so ever at any point.

Glad you are excited though, good to see you happy and upbeat after having to be silenced.

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I still don't get why his suspension would be reduced. He wouldn't have popped positive at all under the new policy. Should be erased entirely.

ETA: But I'll happily take 8 games.

Because he did "pop positive." The new policy wasn't in place then.

You can't go back in time. "I don't understand how she got pregnant; I bought condoms the day after we had sex. The pregnancy should never have happened."

If his suspension is reduced, he should just say "thank you." They could just as easily say "the suspensions already levied will remain in place."

Okay, but then why is Welker supposedly getting off?

I don't know; I'm not privy to what they are discussing.

What has been reported is that the language of the agreement might say players whose offenses occurred during the 2014 league year will have their suspensions re-evaluated under the new policy. Welker's offense occurred during the 2014 league year, Gordon's didn't.

Welker should also be thankful if he gets any/all of his suspension revoked. He broke the rules that he agreed to (via the NFLPA), and he agreed to his punishment (via the NFLPA and the CBA). Any "forgiveness" he receives is good luck, not anything "owed" to him.

and yet no one in here is sanctimonious about welker and his reduction. thats fair and deserved. after, welker didnt mean it. he just wanted to have a little fun. he wasnt doing anything wrong. right? but gordon, well, hes a disgusting human being. a danger to society that routinely breaks the rules and endangers our way of life.

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Wow.

The mods here must be sages.

Knew the perfect time to release me from my ban. PERFECTION.

Soulfly mode: Activated

What did you get banned for? Last time I noticed you here, you were (for you) on model behavior? :confused:

I dont have a clue what he got banned for. :shrug:

Oh, and I already got a PM from Soulfly with his excitement.

Get this out of the way now, quote me where before Gordons suspension of the time Soulfly said the CBA would be changed and that is what would allow Gordon to play?

I thought so, he is a bias Gordon owner who said he wouldnt get suspended, he did. Said his appeal would be over turned, it didnt. Then he said Gordon would sue, he didnt.

Now after the new deal that will be in place, he will still be suspended and is only getting out of it not because of his own actions or the league was wrong, but because the NFLPA exhausted every possible resource to get him off before having to make back room deals.

While Gordon may play and even I am happy about that, you have not been correct about anything what so ever at any point.

Glad you are excited though, good to see you happy and upbeat after having to be silenced.

:grad:

In the face of devastating intellect and logic like this, I hope Soulfly doesn't crawl under his bed.

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Wow.

The mods here must be sages.

Knew the perfect time to release me from my ban. PERFECTION.

Soulfly mode: Activated

What did you get banned for? Last time I noticed you here, you were (for you) on model behavior? :confused:

I dont have a clue what he got banned for. :shrug:

Oh, and I already got a PM from Soulfly with his excitement.

Get this out of the way now, quote me where before Gordons suspension of the time Soulfly said the CBA would be changed and that is what would allow Gordon to play?

I thought so, he is a bias Gordon owner who said he wouldnt get suspended, he did. Said his appeal would be over turned, it didnt. Then he said Gordon would sue, he didnt.

Now after the new deal that will be in place, he will still be suspended and is only getting out of it not because of his own actions or the league was wrong, but because the NFLPA exhausted every possible resource to get him off before having to make back room deals.

While Gordon may play and even I am happy about that, you have not been correct about anything what so ever at any point.

Glad you are excited though, good to see you happy and upbeat after having to be silenced.

:grad:

In the face of devastating intellect and logic like this, I hope Soulfly doesn't crawl under his bed.

he wrote a novel which in the end still says "his methods may have been off, but his answer was correct"

#SoulflyLife

Edited by Soulfly3
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Once you're suspended you don't have access to team's facilities.

Yes, I know. But that's something that's been a bit of a point of contention with respect to drug suspensions.

Never mind. Apparently when it's not a PED, they can as long as the suspension is less than a year:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9828393/hot-read-von-miller-benefited-little-known-rule-suspensions

Edited by Henry Ford
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Wow.

The mods here must be sages.

Knew the perfect time to release me from my ban. PERFECTION.

Soulfly mode: Activated

What did you get banned for? Last time I noticed you here, you were (for you) on model behavior? :confused:

I dont have a clue what he got banned for. :shrug:

Oh, and I already got a PM from Soulfly with his excitement.

Get this out of the way now, quote me where before Gordons suspension of the time Soulfly said the CBA would be changed and that is what would allow Gordon to play?

I thought so, he is a bias Gordon owner who said he wouldnt get suspended, he did. Said his appeal would be over turned, it didnt. Then he said Gordon would sue, he didnt.

Now after the new deal that will be in place, he will still be suspended and is only getting out of it not because of his own actions or the league was wrong, but because the NFLPA exhausted every possible resource to get him off before having to make back room deals.

While Gordon may play and even I am happy about that, you have not been correct about anything what so ever at any point.

Glad you are excited though, good to see you happy and upbeat after having to be silenced.

:grad:

In the face of devastating intellect and logic like this, I hope Soulfly doesn't crawl under his bed.

he wrote a novel which in the end still says "his methods may have been off, but his answer was correct"

#SoulflyLife

So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

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Wow.

The mods here must be sages.

Knew the perfect time to release me from my ban. PERFECTION.

Soulfly mode: Activated

What did you get banned for? Last time I noticed you here, you were (for you) on model behavior? :confused:

I dont have a clue what he got banned for. :shrug:

Oh, and I already got a PM from Soulfly with his excitement.

Get this out of the way now, quote me where before Gordons suspension of the time Soulfly said the CBA would be changed and that is what would allow Gordon to play?

I thought so, he is a bias Gordon owner who said he wouldnt get suspended, he did. Said his appeal would be over turned, it didnt. Then he said Gordon would sue, he didnt.

Now after the new deal that will be in place, he will still be suspended and is only getting out of it not because of his own actions or the league was wrong, but because the NFLPA exhausted every possible resource to get him off before having to make back room deals.

While Gordon may play and even I am happy about that, you have not been correct about anything what so ever at any point.

Glad you are excited though, good to see you happy and upbeat after having to be silenced.

:grad:

In the face of devastating intellect and logic like this, I hope Soulfly doesn't crawl under his bed.

he wrote a novel which in the end still says "his methods may have been off, but his answer was correct"

#SoulflyLife

So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

Sticking with my 4-6 games, still. And more confident of it than ever.

8 possible too, if they want to "halve" his 16 (thought that's not how I originally explained the 8 games)

:hifive:

soulfly u bastahd :)

you seriously need a nap, False Start.

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So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

Multiple posts by Soulfly in here saying 4-6 games. More importantly to him, he's a Browns fan, he gets their best player back.

Soulfly may not have been 100% correct, but all the haters were 100% wrong.

For me, I can only laugh at the uneducated people that come in here, with their bias opinion, and tried to make this about Soulfly. I come here to talk football, and maybe edumacate some of the less worthy posters that need to know stuff.

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Thank you Soulfly for providing deep insight into this situation! Thanks to you I might just be able to pull off the championship this year!

:thumbup:

ride that train, brotha!!

So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

Multiple posts by Soulfly in here saying 4-6 games. More importantly to him, he's a Browns fan, he gets their best player back.

Soulfly may not have been 100% correct, but all the haters were 100% wrong.

For me, I can only laugh at the uneducated people that come in here, with their bias opinion, and tried to make this about Soulfly. I come here to talk football, and maybe edumacate some of the less worthy posters that need to know stuff.

He's really trying hard for someone who states over and over "he doesnt care"

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So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

Multiple posts by Soulfly in here saying 4-6 games. More importantly to him, he's a Browns fan, he gets their best player back.

Soulfly may not have been 100% correct, but all the haters were 100% wrong.

For me, I can only laugh at the uneducated people that come in here, with their bias opinion, and tried to make this about Soulfly. I come here to talk football, and maybe edumacate some of the less worthy posters that need to know stuff.

Are you his keeper or the same person?

Also, I laugh at the uneducated people coming in here and not realizing Soulfly is making this about Soulfly.

I know people who play in leagues with you, from what I hear you need the edumacation. So maybe you should talk less and listen more.

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So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

Multiple posts by Soulfly in here saying 4-6 games. More importantly to him, he's a Browns fan, he gets their best player back.

Soulfly may not have been 100% correct, but all the haters were 100% wrong.

For me, I can only laugh at the uneducated people that come in here, with their bias opinion, and tried to make this about Soulfly. I come here to talk football, and maybe edumacate some of the less worthy posters that need to know stuff.

Are you his keeper or the same person?

Also, I laugh at the uneducated people coming in here and not realizing Soulfly is making this about Soulfly.

I know people who play in leagues with you, from what I hear you need the edumacation. So maybe you should talk less and listen more.

I is shoor trying to. Buts sometimez it's hard to figger out who knowz stuff, and who iz just uneducated, and has a bias opinion. I can't Standz that!!!

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Lovely PM from False Start to Soulfly3:

lol yet you live on the forum? Yeah, but you dont care. lmfao, what a idiotic moronic loser, its awesome. Keep responding, me and my buddies love laughing at u

he mad.

I notice that was in response to something you said. Hmmm, convenient you left that out. If one thing can be said for Soulfy, facts and him dont get along.

You are wrong and have been wrong from the moment he got suspended. Deal with it.

Denial is awesome.

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Lovely PM from False Start to Soulfly3:

lol yet you live on the forum? Yeah, but you dont care. lmfao, what a idiotic moronic loser, its awesome. Keep responding, me and my buddies love laughing at u

he mad.

I notice that was in response to something you said. Hmmm, convenient you left that out. If one thing can be said for Soulfy, facts and him dont get along.

You are wrong and have been wrong from the moment he got suspended. Deal with it.

Denial is awesome.

I dunno.. He said no way would it be 16 games....

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Lovely PM from False Start to Soulfly3:

lol yet you live on the forum? Yeah, but you dont care. lmfao, what a idiotic moronic loser, its awesome. Keep responding, me and my buddies love laughing at u

he mad.

I notice that was in response to something you said. Hmmm, convenient you left that out. If one thing can be said for Soulfy, facts and him dont get along.

You are wrong and have been wrong from the moment he got suspended. Deal with it.

Denial is awesome.

This what his ignorant and hurtful PM to me was in response to:

credibility?

:lol

u serious?

it's an effing forum dude. credibility... hahaha aint trying to make mod

you're telling me, and everyone here that this post deserved your response?

You're unreal. You seriously need a time out

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I know people who play in leagues with you,

No, you don't.

I love how you cut down quotes to mis leads people, you, ojaays, rizzler and Soulfly do the same thing. Hmmm.

How many alias can one have on a message board?

I apologize for trimming your post to make it appear that you were saying you knew people that play in leagues with me. What did you mean when you said, "I know people who play in leagues with you."?

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Id actually like to give a shoutout to Bayhawks.

He kept it classy, even tho he adamantly disagreed with everything I said. Never resorted to the low tactics of some others and even defended me when some members tried to lie about words I had "apparently" said.

Much love, Bayhawks.

Edited by Soulfly3
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Well it went somewhat assbackwards but Soulfly did make the proper prediction on games suspended if it ends up as stated.. Nicely done.

Tee off with a driver, slice it, hits off a tree, skips over the pond, goes in a trap, hits a rake, bounces out, hits a drain, rolls into the flag, pops up, into the hole.

Actually you're probably more overjoyed after that than a perfect 325 yard fade to the green.

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Wow.

The mods here must be sages.

Knew the perfect time to release me from my ban. PERFECTION.

Soulfly mode: Activated

What did you get banned for? Last time I noticed you here, you were (for you) on model behavior? :confused:

I dont have a clue what he got banned for. :shrug:

Oh, and I already got a PM from Soulfly with his excitement.

Get this out of the way now, quote me where before Gordons suspension of the time Soulfly said the CBA would be changed and that is what would allow Gordon to play?

I thought so, he is a bias Gordon owner who said he wouldnt get suspended, he did. Said his appeal would be over turned, it didnt. Then he said Gordon would sue, he didnt.

Now after the new deal that will be in place, he will still be suspended and is only getting out of it not because of his own actions or the league was wrong, but because the NFLPA exhausted every possible resource to get him off before having to make back room deals.

While Gordon may play and even I am happy about that, you have not been correct about anything what so ever at any point.

Glad you are excited though, good to see you happy and upbeat after having to be silenced.

:grad:

In the face of devastating intellect and logic like this, I hope Soulfly doesn't crawl under his bed.

he wrote a novel which in the end still says "his methods may have been off, but his answer was correct"

#SoulflyLife

So, he will still end up suspended, which you said he wouldnt? how are you correct in any way?

Give it up - no one really cares.

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:wall:

As a new member this is troublesome. Soulfly, False Start and MassRaider have ruinded this thread or are the reason for every bickering session almost.

You all are embarrassing yourself guys. This is a shame, all three of you fighting like children.

Soulfly, please stop making it seem as if you knew something others didnt. It is pretty well documented that you have not been very accurate and when you are challenged you troll others to get a rise. Who shares PMs from others on the site? If that isnt classless, regardless of what was said, what is?

False Start, let it go. Man do you destroy every thread with your opinion. We get it, you know all about everything, thanks for sharing. Please stop now.

MassRaider - Why are you even involved in trying to encourage them two and their dispute? What benefit is it to you. Are we supposed to think you are something of a great contributor because you are trying to anger others intentionally?

Mods, please get a grip on this because I see very few speaking up against this type of issues and I am starting to believe it is the norm. I do feel its ironic from what I read that Soulfly comes back from a suspension and immediately starts to antagonize others, with a little help from others.

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to WR Josh Gordon, KC

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