I did pretty much the exact same thing, except I cut out all the middlemen by just holding onto Tate the whole time and taking a nap.
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WR Josh Gordon, KC (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
If I'm reading this correctly, the NFL is grandfathering in all players under the new discipline protocols. However, they are not retroactively applying the new marijuana thresholds, not even for players popped in the current league year.
https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/510783692210720768
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
So is there any actual Gordon news? I've been out of the loop a bit due to fMily issues.
If Pelissero's understanding of the terms is correct, then the NFLPA yielded its demand to have the higher marijuana threshold applied retroactively. I say that because Jay Feely stated yesterday that retroactively applying the new threshold was something the union was fighting hard for, and moreover, it's fundamentally fair. In fact, I'm wondering if Gordon is the only player currently suspended for testing at THC levels between 15-35 ng/ml. If so, then it seems Gordon was one of the NFLPA's concessions to the NFL.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
What's the last thing you heard?
Franknbeans
Footballguy
If they are paying any attention to this thread at all the powers that be know this is not acceptable.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Makes some sense everything considered and would be literally shocking if you ask me. The NFL gains nothing, IMO.
Did you mean to type "The NFLPA gains nothing?"
If not, I don't get what you mean. The NFL's whole goal in these negotiations was to get HGH testing. If the two sides agree to that, they gain everything that they wanted. They (despite what some/many/all Gordon-ites want to believe) don't care about whether Josh Gordon plays this year or not. In fact, due to the fact that he broke the rules, they'd probably rather he didn't play. But they definitely aren't going out of their way to MAKE SURE he plays. So, if his suspension isn't overturned, OR isn't reduced as much as some people would like, but the NFL gains HGH testing, how does "The NFL gains nothing?"
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I Am the Stig
Footballguy
The "Gordonites" contend that according to the new rules, Gordon didn't break the rules and should be set free. This belief would apply to any player it applies to, but since this is after all a Josh Gordon thread the player of concern here is in fact Josh Gordon.
When did this turn into a "Gordonites" thing? Exactly what or who should we be talking about in a Josh Gordon thread?
The "Gordonites" are wrong in that contention. He did break the rules, at the time, and according to some reports, a new policy will be written in such a way that says he still broke the rules but is subject to a different suspension length. If that's the case, it doesn't matter how much they want Gordon to get no suspension, he's going to .
When I refer to Gordonites, I'm not talking about people discussing Gordon, I'm referring to the people who make any excuse for him that they can dream up: "weed's not that bad," "the NFL's levels are too low," "Gordon should sue (even though he has no legal grounds to do so," "the NFL wants Gordon to play," "Rice getting 2 games is good for Gordon, b/c the NFL needs to show that weed isn't worse than domestic abuse," "Rice getting an indefinite suspension is good for Gordon, b/c the NFL can go easy on him now," "Gordon should get no suspension, b/c the new rules (which weren't in place when he failed) would not be a fail, even though the new policy is reportedly written in such a way that says he SHOULD be suspended."
If you are rational and logical when discussing Gordon, and are willing to accept facts, even if they don't look good for Gordon, I don't view you as a "Gordon-ite." If you refuse to accept that you might not get what you want, with regards to Gordon, and are willing to ignore facts/logic/reality in order to rationalize your belief that Gordon is/will/should get off, that's who I mean when I say "Gordon-ite." Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.
shoecrew22
Footballguy
As a rational Gordon owner who thinks 10 games is happening no matter what...
"weed's not that bad," "the NFL's levels are too low,"
Both of these are true. Doesn't change whats happening to him, but they are true.
"weed's not that bad," "the NFL's levels are too low,"
Both of these are true. Doesn't change whats happening to him, but they are true.
dschuler
Footballguy
I've pretty much had come to terms the same way. It isn't fair, but neither is life. It doesn't make sense, but neither do any of these other suspensions because it's the NFL. It is what it is.
For somebody claining to be logical and rational you are yourself refusing to accept facts
"weed's not that bad"
Fact: weed is being legalized in more and more states and most Americans support legalization
http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx
The optics of the Rice and Peterson situation contrasted to an activity most would legalize has to be in the minds of the PR folks
"the NFL's levels are too low,"
Fact; Based on NFL levels you could pass a drug test to be an Air Traffic controller, but you can't step on a football field.
Gordon should sue (even though he has no legal grounds to do so,"
Right now, reports say we are looking at a result is that he gets the stage 3/4 suspension under the new agreement based on test taken in the previous "league year."
The facts is that this is a fluid situation. There is no agreement in place. Despite the sides being close, we may not get one. When we get one, we don't know what that agreement will say.
AgentMulder
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
For the sake of those of us using mobile devices could we please give the embedding a million quotes thing a rest? Especially, when not adding any new information?
AgentMulder
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
AgentMulder
Footballguy
Does anyone know how his family is doing? Forget Flash Gordon or whoever this thread is about.
AgentMulder
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Like it.
https://twitter.com/JOSH_GORDONXII
He also posted "TMT" - what does that mean? Too much time?
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Agreed. The union wanted the higher marijuana threshold to apply retroactively, which would have led to Gordon's suspension being lifted. However, the NFL has an incentive to not apply the new policy in this manner, as it's been reported that doing so might lead to grievances filed by players who were disciplined in previous seasons.
https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
How do they revise the policy then say everyone is G2G if their case fits the revisions EXCEPT Josh Gordon when if this policy had been in place he wouldn't have tested positive AT ALL. He should really rethink that suing the NFL thing. They are all sorts of ####ed up right now.
dschuler
Footballguy
mnmplayer
Footballguy
New spin floating around:
MJ is now isolated on its own suspension track so the codeine violation should not apply as one of the "4 violations" (or is it 3) MJ is now treated separately. Look at the wording. There should be a different explanation for the 10 games. Technically 2 substance abuse and 2 MJ violations make 4, but they would only lead to punishment for 4 game check violations under the new punishment language, not any suspensions at all. I am not saying he wont get 10 games, but I am figuring out how they will justify it unless they make a Gordon rule, because the explanation that the threshold was not backdated but the punishment is backdated doesn't hold water either under the new rules where MJ is an isolated suspension path. Credit Salfino for this argument.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/13/nfl-new-drug-policy-three-things/15571205/
"1. Marijuana won't be punished like other drugs"
So its possible to be in multiple stages of violations for MJ, Domestic abuse, Substance abuse, etc.
MJ is now isolated on its own suspension track so the codeine violation should not apply as one of the "4 violations" (or is it 3) MJ is now treated separately. Look at the wording. There should be a different explanation for the 10 games. Technically 2 substance abuse and 2 MJ violations make 4, but they would only lead to punishment for 4 game check violations under the new punishment language, not any suspensions at all. I am not saying he wont get 10 games, but I am figuring out how they will justify it unless they make a Gordon rule, because the explanation that the threshold was not backdated but the punishment is backdated doesn't hold water either under the new rules where MJ is an isolated suspension path. Credit Salfino for this argument.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/13/nfl-new-drug-policy-three-things/15571205/
"1. Marijuana won't be punished like other drugs"
So its possible to be in multiple stages of violations for MJ, Domestic abuse, Substance abuse, etc.
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GregR
Footballguy
That doesn't sound right mnmplayer. Look at the article you posted. Marijuana is not an isolated structure. The punishment for either MJ or another substance build on previous violations of either type. MJ has punishments which can differ from other substances, but they aren't completely unrelated. You are at the same step for both MJ and other substances. What differs is that if your next violation is MJ the punishment might be lighter than it is for other substances.
The path through to a 10 game suspension with the violations we know of for Gordon would be:
The path through to a 10 game suspension with the violations we know of for Gordon would be:
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shoecrew22
Footballguy
Does his tweet confirm 10 game suspension and he plays 6 games or he is serving 6 games?
bulger2holt
Footballguy
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
He/his agent should get him a jugs machine or an out of work NFL QB or Arena League QB to throw to him until he can go back to The Browns
Word is he will be allowed back with the browns during his suspension whatever the actual suspension is
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/josh-gordon-1-year-suspension-with-browns-teammates-suspension-drug-tests-car-dealership-091514
A source told FOX Sports on Sunday that Gordon will be able to be around his teammates and coaches at the Browns' facility during his suspension. When his initial suspension was handed down last month, Gordon was officially barred from the building. But under the new policy, his status in the substance-abuse policy comes with access to club activities, save for the games, full practices and travel with the team.
According to Garafolo, people close to Gordon believe the added structure of the team could help keep him focused on football.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/josh-gordon-1-year-suspension-with-browns-teammates-suspension-drug-tests-car-dealership-091514
A source told FOX Sports on Sunday that Gordon will be able to be around his teammates and coaches at the Browns' facility during his suspension. When his initial suspension was handed down last month, Gordon was officially barred from the building. But under the new policy, his status in the substance-abuse policy comes with access to club activities, save for the games, full practices and travel with the team.
According to Garafolo, people close to Gordon believe the added structure of the team could help keep him focused on football.
You would think that long ago they would have realized keeping someone with the team while suspended, especially for drugs, would be better than letting a player run with his "friends."
This is my point.
It doesn't matter if weed is being legalized; that fact is irrelevant to the topic at hand: Gordon's failed test, the NFL's substance abuse policy, and his resulting punishment. Adderall is legal, too, yet players get suspended for that. But Gordon-ites in this thread insist that this is a logical argument for why Gordon shouldn't have been suspended.
If the "optics" of the Rice/Gordon situation were so important (PR-wise) to the NFL, why didn't they give Rice a longer suspension initially? Why didn't they give Gordon a shorter suspension initially? Because what Gordon-ites insist is important, isn't (at least not important enough to #freejoshgordon.
Yes, the reports (unconfirmed, as of yet) that Gordon is going to have a 10-game suspension is based on the new policy, and negotiations between the NFL and NFLPA. Not based on the NFL's desire to see Gordon play, not based on his ridiculous, un-scientific argument that it was 2nd-hand smoke, not based on some incorrect interpretation of Ohio's legal code or the CBA, but on the wording of the new policy.
I agree with your last point, it is a fluid situation, but that doesn't mean that logic and reason won't govern the process. No one could have predicted that the NFL and NFLPA were going to re-negotiate their drug policy, in-season, but anyone who logically looked at the situation, without bias, could have predicted that Gordon was going to get a year suspension, that he was going to lose his appeal, that he had no legal grounds to sue (and win), and that the NFL wasn't going to "bend" their rules (because they want Gordon to play or because of the Rice situation).
Exactly. In the context of Gordon's situation, the first part of this sentence is what's important.
GregR
Footballguy
