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WR Josh Gordon, KC


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Let’s talk about how DBs bounce off this guy like he’s made of marble or stone. Let’s go back and look at that short reception in the red zone he plowed into the end zone during Week 1...yeah let’s talk about how limited the Pats are now.

He is clearly with the right organization to utilize his special skills and provide a safe working environment for him to thrive 

I expect a career day on Sunday...CAREER!!!

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Let’s talk about how DBs bounce off this guy like he’s made of marble or stone. Let’s go back and look at that short reception in the red zone he plowed into the end zone during Week 1...yeah let’s talk about how limited the Pats are now.

He is clearly with the right organization to utilize his special skills and provide a safe working environment for him to thrive 

I expect a career day on Sunday...CAREER!!!

Well said.  6'4" 240 lbs.  He's WR GRONK.  Time to start throwin fools out the club.

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43 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Let’s talk about how DBs bounce off this guy like he’s made of marble or stone. Let’s go back and look at that short reception in the red zone he plowed into the end zone during Week 1...yeah let’s talk about how limited the Pats are now.

He is clearly with the right organization to utilize his special skills and provide a safe working environment for him to thrive 

I expect a career day on Sunday...CAREER!!!

I expect you may be wrong. Brady's OL is currently a mess. If nothing else, the Jets can bring pressure. I project some offensive struggles for NE and a lot of short underneath passes so Tom can get the ball out quickly. I am not sure that plays to the strength of Gordon. Maybe a couple of shots over the top . . . but those may go to Dorsett. The Pats don't need to be risking much on offense to beat the Jets. Like Miami, ball control, run the clock, let the defense do their thing, maybe dial up the offense if they have to, but otherwise I don't see NE going full throttle in this one.

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

I expect a bigger day out of Gordon this week now.  Probably 100+ yards and 1 TD.  

I expect Gordon to become more integrated with the offense later in the season.  The Pats are still in preseason mode. 

This right here.

Gordon may be nothing more than a PPG WR3 for the first half of the season. But come fantasy stretch and playoff time, I'm expecting him to be unleashed into the fantasy PPG WR1 that we all know he his.

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31 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I expect you may be wrong. Brady's OL is currently a mess. If nothing else, the Jets can bring pressure. I project some offensive struggles for NE and a lot of short underneath passes so Tom can get the ball out quickly. I am not sure that plays to the strength of Gordon. Maybe a couple of shots over the top . . . but those may go to Dorsett. The Pats don't need to be risking much on offense to beat the Jets. Like Miami, ball control, run the clock, let the defense do their thing, maybe dial up the offense if they have to, but otherwise I don't see NE going full throttle in this one.

I agree with you here. Half throttle probably wins this game by 14. This is a smash spot for Edelman, not Gordon. 

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Just now, rockaction said:

I'm still thinking about dumping Gordon and picking up Dorsett, who is 7-7 or 7-8, has an aDOT of over twenty and a catch rate of about 87%.

He's also faster than Gordon.

What say the thread?

I just posted in the Dorsett thread. Dorsett when Edelman around has been limited to 4 or 5 targets a game. He maxed those out Week 1 (almost 100 yards and 2 TD). He also has been known to have to settle for 3 catches and 25 or 30 yards. NE usually has two reliable receiving threats and a 3rd guy that is active. In recent season, those were Edelman and Gronk with White as another option. One year Edelman was out but Cooks slid in instead. IMO, without Gronk, Edelman has been the chess piece to own. Best guess in PPR leagues, Edelman is on the fantasy WR 1/2 bubble, Gordon a WR 3, and Dorsett a WR 4. Given that NE has a cupcake schedule for another month and a half, I doubt we see all three guys having big weeks the same week. 

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I just posted in the Dorsett thread. Dorsett when Edelman around has been limited to 4 or 5 targets a game. He maxed those out Week 1 (almost 100 yards and 2 TD). He also has been known to have to settle for 3 catches and 25 or 30 yards. NE usually has two reliable receiving threats and a 3rd guy that is active. In recent season, those were Edelman and Gronk with White as another option. One year Edelman was out but Cooks slid in instead. IMO, without Gronk, Edelman has been the chess piece to own. Best guess in PPR leagues, Edelman is on the fantasy WR 1/2 bubble, Gordon a WR 3, and Dorsett a WR 4. Given that NE has a cupcake schedule for another month and a half, I doubt we see all three guys having big weeks the same week. 

Yeah, I should state that it's partly in schtick that I mention Dorsett -- your exact reasoning, actually. He's quite good, though, at the game of football. 

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10 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I just posted in the Dorsett thread. Dorsett when Edelman around has been limited to 4 or 5 targets a game. He maxed those out Week 1 (almost 100 yards and 2 TD). He also has been known to have to settle for 3 catches and 25 or 30 yards. NE usually has two reliable receiving threats and a 3rd guy that is active. In recent season, those were Edelman and Gronk with White as another option. One year Edelman was out but Cooks slid in instead. IMO, without Gronk, Edelman has been the chess piece to own. Best guess in PPR leagues, Edelman is on the fantasy WR 1/2 bubble, Gordon a WR 3, and Dorsett a WR 4. Given that NE has a cupcake schedule for another month and a half, I doubt we see all three guys having big weeks the same week. 

Which is it?

He's either really talented in your opinion or he isn't. Some of this is starting to feel like a moral compass about his off field issues in Cleveland. 

So he won't do anything until the schedule gets tougher and then when the Pats really really really need him, he might produce?

AB is gone and you don't seem to want to move the needle a little bit here, that's a mistake IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

James White owners have to be breathing a sigh of relief with AB gone. 

Meh - I say this as someone who just dropped him, so some bitterness - but the RB situation is tough to figure out with NE.  Its not worth the headache trying to figure out what the game plan might be in any given week.  Patriots will be playing with a lead much more often than not this year - so I think Michel and Burkhead have more value even in PPR.

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Meh - I say this as someone who just dropped him, so some bitterness - but the RB situation is tough to figure out with NE.  Its not worth the headache trying to figure out what the game plan might be in any given week.  Patriots will be playing with a lead much more often than not this year - so I think Michel and Burkhead have more value even in PPR.

The way Brady was willing it to White in the middle of a 36-0 blowout at the time late 4th...I'm not so sure I agree with you Sinn and I would like to but I think White owners have a much better chance to see stats with AB gone. Edelman benefits a lot too but they have always had these roles...Gordon allows for the Gronk retirement to not sting as much IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Which is it?

He's either really talented in your opinion or he isn't. Some of this is starting to feel like a moral compass about his off field issues in Cleveland. 

So he won't do anything until the schedule gets tougher and then when the Pats really really really need him, he might produce?

AB is gone and you don't seem to want to move the needle a little bit here, that's a mistake IMO. 

Let's start over. JG is talented. I just don't think the 2019 version is the 2013 version. Certainly I don't think the 2019 Patriots are the 2013 Browns. I've posted all this already but let's try it again. The Browns had no running game, no other reliable receiving targets, a terrible defense, and fed Gordon the ball as he averaged almost 12 targets a game. He got a lot of production in garbage time when the Browns had to pass, pass, pass to try to stay competitive.

The 2019 Patriots have plenty of receiving options, will have a good running game (provided they don't lose an OL man every game), they have a phenomenal defense, and they won't be losing much and forced to pass the entire game. Edelman goes back to the head of the class. White goes back to being a key cog in the offense. 

Even in their 2007 season, NE got great numbers from Moss and Welker. But they didn't use their RBs much at all.The 2007 and 2019 teams both mostly ignore(d) the TE position. And that was Brady in his prime. The current version is still a top QB, but TB at 30 likely had more to offer.

I don't see Gordon getting the target rate he had in Cleveland, Edelman will see a boatload of targets, White will go back to 70 or 80 receptions, Burkhead gets some looks, Dorsett gets 80-90 targets, and Gordon will be inconsistently good for NE. I still think NE becomes more of a running team than a passing team, they take their time and sit on leads, they let their defense do the heavy lifting, and then are happy to leave the stadium with a W. Especially with an easy schedule and a banged up OL at the moment.

Unless you don't think Edelman plays 16 games (which is a reasonable thought) or that he won't reach 1,000 yards if he does (which seems less reasonable), NE has had 2 players go over 1,000 receiving yards in the same season in 2017, 2011, 2009, and 2007. That's about 20-25% of the time with Brady playing QB.

That's me just reading the tea leaves. Other people drink coffee, so what do I know?

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11 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Meh - I say this as someone who just dropped him, so some bitterness - but the RB situation is tough to figure out with NE.  Its not worth the headache trying to figure out what the game plan might be in any given week.  Patriots will be playing with a lead much more often than not this year - so I think Michel and Burkhead have more value even in PPR.

Not so sure that's the case anymore. Michel has been pretty steady - when healthy... steadily in that 15-20 carry bracket (maybe a tick under).

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My crystal ball is Edelman and White become go to underneath lots of targets however after those two guys Gordon becomes a super threat to break a takle and take one to the house on almost any reception and you can't say that about very many WRs. I haven't seen anything to make me believe the 2019 version cannot do what the 2013 version can do physically but I understand Cleveland was a different situation. New England would not have gone to the lengths they have gone to if this kid didn't have a lot of talent, and he's no kid now. 

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8 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

My crystal ball is Edelman and White become go to underneath lots of targets however after those two guys Gordon becomes a super threat to break a takle and take one to the house on almost any reception and you can't say that about very many WRs. I haven't seen anything to make me believe the 2019 version cannot do what the 2013 version can do physically but I understand Cleveland was a different situation. New England would not have gone to the lengths they have gone to if this kid didn't have a lot of talent, and he's no kid now. 

All that is likely true. As for the last part, remember that NE got him last year on his rookie deal and has him this year for only $2 million. His allure certainly was at least partly  motivated by his bargain basement salary cost. 

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2 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

his TD week 1 is evidence of what he will do all season long. and that 40yd bomb he held getting smacked by 3 defenders

Just curious. How many seconds does it take for those plays to develop? NE plays the Jets and Bills the next two weeks. Both have solid defenses. I am guessing if they take more then two seconds, Brady may not have time to get the ball out without being hit. The Pats are only short two starting tackles and their starting center. 

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7 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

 

On 9/19/2019 at 5:34 PM, BassNBrew said:

I'm predicting a very good week.  Soulfly has disappeared in shame once again which usually means good things for Gordon.

you're 0/2 on your last 2 attempts. yikes.

 

Dead on.  You disappear and Gordon gets the best news of the year.  I was the only one in here predicting a good week.  Once again I was right.  Now the only question is how much you pollute this thread and cause bad thing to happen to Gordon.

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Anarchy99 makes sound arguments. He's just very wedded to his stances, sometimes (often?) too rigidly.

I see it mainly because I can be the same way. Struggled with this mindset my entire life, when the consequences were much greater!

That said, I appreciate his thoughtful, insightful and thorough explanations of his reasoning. Helps me to decide what I should buy and what I should leave.

Not buying Pats will be a running team with an OL that can't block for more than two seconds all season. That may be (somewhat) true now, but Scarneccia is the the OL coach and Bellychick the big dog.

And they have 8 weeks to figure it out before their stretch run when they'll be playing for home field and we will be playing for fantasy gold...

10 BYE

11 Phi

12 Dal

13 @Hou

14 KC

15 @Cin

16 Buf

See ya on the other side, gents. 😎

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On 9/12/2019 at 11:54 AM, Nucker101 said:

Anyone thinking of making an aggressive trade offer for him in redraft? Feel like his value will go up big time if AB ends up getting let go, but at the same time he's going too be hard to trust if AB sticks around. I'm considering doing this in leagues where I've lost Tyreek Hill

:)

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to WR Josh Gordon, KC

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