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1 minute ago, CalBear said:

Rodgers: 65.7% completions, TD% 6.6, INT% 1.1, 7.3 YPA, rating 104.2.

Luck: 63.5% completions, TD% 5.7, INT% 2.4, 7.8 YPA, rating 96.4.

I suppose that's a little similar. But it's more similar to, say, Marcus Mariota: 61.2% completions, TD% 5.8, INT% 2.0, 7.6 YPA, rating 95.6.

Ok? Either way, he's in the top 10 no matter how you look at the numbers. Even if one rated him top 3 in the NFL (no one does), top 10 wouldn't really qualify as seriously over-rated. I think there are only a handful of teams that would rather keep what they have vs having Luck. 

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Was week 1 not an absolute indictment of Jeff Fisher as the QB killer?  He managed to turn two #1 overall picks into fantasy and reality shyte.  Granted, Bradford suffered some injuries under Fisher,

Hey take it to the Frogs forum!  

Solid point you have going here, please expand.    

3 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Ok? Either way, he's in the top 10 no matter how you look at the numbers. Even if one rated him top 3 in the NFL (no one does), top 10 wouldn't really qualify as seriously over-rated. I think there are only a handful of teams that would rather keep what they have vs having Luck. 

I think most people (certainly fantasy players) are putting Luck right after Rodgers/Brees/Brady (+Ryan), and certainly ahead of Mariota and Winston. And his numbers just don't support that. 

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6 hours ago, CalBear said:

Luck has not lit it up. He has just thrown the ball a ton. Amongst passers with at least 1500 attempts since 2012, Luck is 23/25 in completion percentage, 17/25 in INT percentage, 9/25 in TD percentage, 15/25 in yards per attempt, and 28/25 in passer rating, He is behind guys like Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, and Carson Palmer in most of those stats. And, in fact, Sam Bradford has a higher passer rating than Luck over that time frame. The only rate stat where Luck significantly outperforms Bradford is TD%. 

That's not because Bradford doesn't suck, it's because Luck is seriously overrated.

4200 yards, 31 tds and 13 ints behind the 27 worst line in the league...yea that's over rated alright

 

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4 hours ago, TwinTurbo said:

The Lions D was worst in the league in QB completion percentage and defensive passer rating. Bradford could not have asked for a better matchup for his style of play.

Well he completed 78% of his passes.

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7 hours ago, CalBear said:

Luck has not lit it up. He has just thrown the ball a ton. Amongst passers with at least 1500 attempts since 2012, Luck is 23/25 in completion percentage, 17/25 in INT percentage, 9/25 in TD percentage, 15/25 in yards per attempt, and 28/25 in passer rating, He is behind guys like Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, and Carson Palmer in most of those stats. And, in fact, Sam Bradford has a higher passer rating than Luck over that time frame. The only rate stat where Luck significantly outperforms Bradford is TD%. 

That's not because Bradford doesn't suck, it's because Luck is seriously overrated.

Yeah, td% is probably not the place to fall behind and try to make your case. Bradford might be top 10 in a points per completion league. Passer rating is an archaic measuring stick. 

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Philly is thanking the Minn staff everyday for giving them a 1st round pick for this hack. At what point does the Viking fans quit making excuses for him? Probably when he's a back up on some other team. No team misses him; not very many teams would want him starting for them. JAG at the most important position.

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30 minutes ago, G-King said:

Philly is thanking the Minn staff everyday for giving them a 1st round pick for this hack. At what point does the Viking fans quit making excuses for him? Probably when he's a back up on some other team. No team misses him; not very many teams would want him starting for them. JAG at the most important position.

Feel free to run down a list of options the Vikings had at the time. Sometimes trades work out fine for both teams. He was a game manager, and he did well at it. As a fan, I am surely hoping he improves with the off season. 

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17 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Feel free to run down a list of options the Vikings had at the time. Sometimes trades work out fine for both teams. He was a game manager, and he did well at it. As a fan, I am surely hoping he improves with the off season. 

Did you post this in 2017 or 2010?

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1 minute ago, CalBear said:

Did you post this in 2017 or 2010?

You mean 2010 when he was rookie of the year? 

 

In any case, I couldn't care less what's happened to him in the past. He arrived a week before the season started and I'm hoping he's able to improve this off season. 

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Bradford to me is just a failure of a qb.  He has success throwing 3 yards down the field but in the end he is the kind of qb that can't make the important throw at the right time.  He can't lead you to a win, he can just support your team as they win around him.  Which, in today's nfl, isn't a terrible thing per se.  

I think overall they would have done the same if not better with hill at qb and they would have had a first round pick.  

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37 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

You mean 2010 when he was rookie of the year? 

 

In any case, I couldn't care less what's happened to him in the past. He arrived a week before the season started and I'm hoping he's able to improve this off season. 

Yes, in 2010 when he was a mediocre QB on a 7-9 team.

And then in 2011 when he was a less-than mediocre QB on a 2-14 team.

And then in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 when, every year, people said "maybe this will be the year he becomes better than mediocre".

Sure, you don't care that he has never had a winning season. But you do care if he sucks. Which he does. 

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2 hours ago, G-King said:

Philly is thanking the Minn staff everyday for giving them a 1st round pick for this hack. At what point does the Viking fans quit making excuses for him? Probably when he's a back up on some other team. No team misses him; not very many teams would want him starting for them. JAG at the most important position.

Don't forget the 4th round pick the Eagles get in 2018! Bonus!

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  • 2 months later...
9 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

What does it mean? It means you're Captain Checkdown.

2016 yards per completion leaderboard (min. 300 PA, 30 qualifying QBs):

1 Matt Ryan*+ ATL        13.3
2 Cam Newton CAR        13.0
3 Philip Rivers* SDG        12.6
4 Marcus Mariota TEN        12.4
5 Andrew Luck IND        12.3
     
24 Alex Smith* KAN        10.7
     
28 Joe Flacco BAL          9.9
29 Brock Osweiler HOU          9.8
30 Sam Bradford MIN          9.8

Naw, son, Alex Smith is Captain Checkdown. Bradford is Admiral Checkdown

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11 hours ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Naw, son, Alex Smith is Captain Checkdown. Bradford is Admiral Checkdown

So much check down that he had to change  service branches. :)

FWIW I like Cian Faheys work and he has some pretty good counter arguments to the general view on Sam Bradford. A link to the podcast is at the end of the article, as the main reason why I posted that.

Football in an Irish accent? Whats not to like?

 

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Excerpt:

Quote

SAM BRADFORD'S BREAKOUT? Why the QB could enjoy a career year

 

Sam Bradford rarely gets mentioned as one of the top quarterbacks in the game, but I believe the former No. 1 overall pick is poised to crack the top 10 at his position this year.

Now, I know I might be the lone wolf in my glowing assessment of Bradford's game and potential, but the more I watch him on tape, the more I'm convinced he has the goods to take his game to another level as the Minnesota Vikings' QB1.

Last season, Bradford quietly posted career highs in completion rate (71.6 percent), passer rating (99.3) and yards per attempt (7.0), despite joining the team near the end of preseason.

Think about that.

The eighth-year pro posted highly efficient numbers as a passer while mastering a system on the fly and developing chemistry with a group of pass catchers without the benefit of OTAs (organized team activities) and minicamp practices. Not to mention, he was forced to play behind a leaky offensive line that was ravaged by injuries for most of the season. His coach, for one, certainly took notice.

"He's earned the right to be the starting quarterback," Mike Zimmer said at the season-ending press conference.

With that in mind, Bradford's spectacular play in adverse circumstances could foreshadow his rise to the top in 2017. He not only survived the calamity, but he actually thrived as the orchestra conductor of an offense that wasn't designed to showcase or enhance his talents. Although Bradford's production and efficiency weren't celebrated due to the Vikings' disappointing finish after a 5-0 start, his stellar play might've prompted the team to rebuild the offense around his skill set.

First, the team installed Pat Shurmur as the permanent offensive coordinator after he served as the team's play caller following Norv Turner's surprising midseason retirement. The move allows Bradford to stay with the OC who knows him best (Shurmur previously coached Bradford with the Rams and Eagles) and understands how to maximize the 29-year-old QB's potential (Bradford won the 2010 Offensive Rookie of the Year award with Shurmur calling the plays in St. Louis).

From a schematic standpoint, Shurmur's system fits Bradford's strengths as a pinpoint rhythm passer. The scheme features a number of shotgun spread formations with quick patterns and intermediate route combinations designed to stretch the defense horizontally while allowing Bradford to quickly catch and fire from the pocket. Although the passing game definitely has a "dink and dunk" feel to it, the system allows the quarterback to rack up completions and move the chains if he understands where to go with the ball based on his pre- and post-snap reads. Remember, Bradford excelled in a spread offense at Oklahoma that featured quicks and catch-and-run concepts, so Shurmur's system puts him back in his comfort zone as a playmaker.

With a system in place to accentuate Bradford's skills, the Vikings still needed to upgrade the supporting cast. The team revamped the offensive line with free-agent additions Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers, and added a rock-solid center (Pat Elflein) in the draft. These additions will keep Bradford clean in the pocket, which will allow him to keep his eyes downfield instead of staring at the free rushers shooting through gaps. This will increase his accuracy on intermediate and deep throws, leading to more chunk plays from an offense that struggled to generate home runs in the passing game.

In addition, the Vikings' fortified running game will help Bradford perform better from the pocket. No disrespect to Adrian Peterson and his remarkable career accomplishments, but a) he seemed to be past his prime last September and b) his one-dimensional game didn't mesh with the evolution of the Vikings' offense under Bradford. The veteran quarterback is at his best when operating out of the shotgun, which isn't ideal for Peterson's game or running style. Thus, the team moved on from the three-time rushing champ and replaced him with free agent Latavius Murray and second-round draft pick Dalvin Cook.

In Murray, the Vikings get a big-bodied, one-cut runner with the size, strength and power to grind between the tackles -- yet he is also a capable receiver out of the backfield. Murray caught 74 balls over his last two years in Oakland and snatches the ball cleanly on swings, screens and checkdowns out of the backfield. Although he isn't a mismatch option in the passing game, he is more than capable of playing a role as a receiver on early-down play-action passes.

Cook, the No. 41 overall pick out of Florida State, is an electric multipurpose back with home-run ability. He can score from anywhere on the field as a runner or receiver, and his spectacular running style reminds me of Jamaal Charles. With the Vikings moving to more spread formations and a shotgun-oriented approach, Cook's versatility and explosiveness could make him quite a difference maker in the lineup beside Bradford.

Remember, the Vikings ranked dead last in rushing a season ago, and the lack of a steady ground game allowed opponents to hone in on Bradford and the passing game. If Murray and Cook are able to emerge as credible threats, it changes the coverage Bradford faces and allows the Vikings' receivers to see more one-on-one matchups on the outside.

Considering the Vikings' receiving corps had three pass catchers (Adam ThielenStefon Diggs and Kyle Rudolph) eclipse 800 yards despite facing loaded coverage, the crew could post crazy numbers in a system that creates plenty of opportunities for polished route runners with crafty games. With Michael Floyd joining the group as a downfield threat and 2016 No. 1 pick Laquon Treadwellpoised to make a leap as a second-year pro, the Vikings have enough weapons to allow Bradford to carve up defenses with a flurry of "dink and dunk" throws to the perimeter.

To be an elite quarterback in this league, a field general needs to have the right scheme and supporting cast to thrive. In Minnesota, Bradford is finally in a situation that will allow him to play like the signal caller everyone envisioned when he came off the board as the No. 1 overall pick in the 2009 draft.

 

 

Edited by Faust
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey Guys   I don't wanna try to paint to much of a real photo shopped picture  Because, I know my view may be slightly pressured in an opposite direction.  For instance, I believe some expected more w/ the Rams.  Overall the Rams still don't impress me a whole lot.  I realize a solid QB can perform in adverse conditions.  But, I'm not so sure Bradford has ever seen near ideal conditions.  tbh I'm not even so sure Bradford has ever been motivated by the guy behind him..  He's been a true competitor w/o cause (imho)  No Coach No line No RB (etc.)

What do we know for this Season..  Bradford has a complete yr. in the System!   (Roughly 4K yds w/ 5 picks last Season)  This years OLine could be one of the best that hes played behind.  Ive seen some fuss over this Rookie RB too.  Contract yr.!  Woah, this could be a true audition for one of the like 15 NFL teams lacking a true NFL caliber QB (due too retirement, whatever)

Can you fathom Cook being so good that defenses are near forced to play "8 men in the Box" ?  (Vikings lacked a Run game completely last yr.)

Guy named DonnyT may come in here trying to blow smoke up..  Id just like ya to have some idea where he may be coming from, before ya put your foot in your mouth

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19 hours ago, Dismattle said:

Hey Guys   I don't wanna try to paint to much of a real photo shopped picture  Because, I know my view may be slightly pressured in an opposite direction.  For instance, I believe some expected more w/ the Rams.  Overall the Rams still don't impress me a whole lot.  I realize a solid QB can perform in adverse conditions.  But, I'm not so sure Bradford has ever seen near ideal conditions.  tbh I'm not even so sure Bradford has ever been motivated by the guy behind him..  He's been a true competitor w/o cause (imho)  No Coach No line No RB (etc.)

What do we know for this Season..  Bradford has a complete yr. in the System!   (Roughly 4K yds w/ 5 picks last Season)  This years OLine could be one of the best that hes played behind.  Ive seen some fuss over this Rookie RB too.  Contract yr.!  Woah, this could be a true audition for one of the like 15 NFL teams lacking a true NFL caliber QB (due too retirement, whatever)

Can you fathom Cook being so good that defenses are near forced to play "8 men in the Box" ?  (Vikings lacked a Run game completely last yr.)

Guy named DonnyT may come in here trying to blow smoke up..  Id just like ya to have some idea where he may be coming from, before ya put your foot in your mouth

I agree with your points but it's a hard for me to get too excited.

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  • 2 months later...
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Sam Bradford completed 27-of-32 passes for 346 yards and three touchdowns in the Vikings' 29-19, Week 1 win over the Saints on Monday night.

He couldn't have played any better. Of the five incompletions, at least three of them were drops by his receivers. Bradford absolutely dissected a Saints pass defense that doesn't look to be improved from past seasons whatsoever. They couldn't cover any Vikings pass catchers, and Bradford completed eight passes of 20-plus yards. Bradford gets accused of being a dinker and dunker, but he had no choice behind a talentless, injury-prone offensive line in 2016. Tonight, Bradford had all the time in the world to throw. Bradford completed 16 passes to Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen for a combined 250 yards and two touchdowns. It might have been Bradford's best game of his career. But it's important to remember how easy the matchup was, so it'll be interesting to see if another year in the same offense for once will be able to catapult his game in a contract year. Things will get much tougher in Week 2 at the Steelers on a short week.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

This is the guy I've defended all these years.

Me too.  Never seen an NFL player stuck in terrible situation after terrible situation ever.  This is his first full offseason healthy with his team, and with the same playbook since his time with the horrible offense in St. Louis.  He's far better and more talented than he was ever given credit for in St. Louis and Philly.  He looked awesome tonight, even if it was against a slightly below average defense.

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Statistically he had his best game of his career by QB rating and completion % against NO.  Cook dropped a couple but Diggs also made a couple of difficult catches.  Hopefully, the line will hold up better this year because Bradford looked surgical when not under pressure.

Edited by Rogi
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Was week 1 not an absolute indictment of Jeff Fisher as the QB killer?  He managed to turn two #1 overall picks into fantasy and reality shyte.  Granted, Bradford suffered some injuries under Fisher, but I believe he was among the worst YPC QB of all time while with the Rams. He set the NFL record for completion % last year and looks like he could now be a legitimate QB1. Goff was horrific last year and though his solid week 1 was against the lowly Colts, he showed some potential as an above-average NFL QB.  Good riddance Fisher! 

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3 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said:

I need him badly this week, hope he suits up and plays

im sure he will play.  i would worry about him getting hit and leaving the game.  hes gonna get hit in pittsburgh

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15 minutes ago, Gawain said:

How PUP is Bridgewater and what are the rules about coming off the list?
Is there any chance if Bradford is shut down week 3 that Bridgewater could be activated?

Almost forgot about him

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6 minutes ago, need2know said:

Almost forgot about him

Bridgewater is PUP so he couldn't be back until Week 7. They didn't extend him, so they may not want to risk injury if Bradford is healthy...but if Bradford is down, I can't imagine Case Keenum getting a bunch of starts, if Bridgewater is healthy. The info I can't find is if Bridgewater is going to be healthy enough to come back week 7.

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5 hours ago, mphtrilogy said:

I need him badly this week, hope he suits up and plays

Hard to see him suiting up and finishing against the Steelers. I know the Vikings o-line looked improved, but that this isn't the Saints pass rush they face this week. The Steelers are going to blitz a lot and have the athletes to do it. 

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