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Was week 1 not an absolute indictment of Jeff Fisher as the QB killer?  He managed to turn two #1 overall picks into fantasy and reality shyte.  Granted, Bradford suffered some injuries under Fisher,

Hey take it to the Frogs forum!  

Solid point you have going here, please expand.    

I know a bad OC can certainly hurt a QB but are there any comparable examples of other young QB's that struggled for years because of inept coaching, later to light it up when they got the right coordinator?

Because I can remember for years people defending Jason Campbell in Washington about how rough he's had because he has to learn a new offense every year. You know, sometimes there's a reason for that...bad quarterbacking will get coaches fired. Good quarterbacking will get coordinators head coaching jobs but the QB's usually stay good.

Two that come to mind are Testeverde and Alex Smith. Testeverde was a joke for years, but the last few years in the league, he was money. Alex Smith has a VERY similar track as Bradford. New OC or coach for years, then gets the same OC and HC for 2 years and is a biscuit away from the SB. He lost his job to an electric Kaepernick but now Kaepernick is struggling and Smith is riding high at 3-0 without a pick.

A guy like Jason Campbell had the same thing, but never recovered.

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I know a bad OC can certainly hurt a QB but are there any comparable examples of other young QB's that struggled for years because of inept coaching, later to light it up when they got the right coordinator?

Because I can remember for years people defending Jason Campbell in Washington about how rough he's had because he has to learn a new offense every year. You know, sometimes there's a reason for that...bad quarterbacking will get coaches fired. Good quarterbacking will get coordinators head coaching jobs but the QB's usually stay good.

Two that come to mind are Testeverde and Alex Smith. Testeverde was a joke for years, but the last few years in the league, he was money. Alex Smith has a VERY similar track as Bradford. New OC or coach for years, then gets the same OC and HC for 2 years and is a biscuit away from the SB. He lost his job to an electric Kaepernick but now Kaepernick is struggling and Smith is riding high at 3-0 without a pick.

A guy like Jason Campbell had the same thing, but never recovered.

Testaverde was mediocre throughout his career. He led the league in INTs four times, including two of his last five years as a full-time starter. He had two decent years in his career, one in his first year in Baltimore (4173/33/19) and one in his first year in New York (3256/29/7). The fact that those both came in the first year with a new team suggests that the problem isn't the number of changes he had, the problem is that he's not very good. Same with Alex Smith; it is shocking that someone who has never thrown for 20 TDs in today's NFL still has a starting job in his eighth year in the league.

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If you keep the OC, then we'll continue to see crap where Austin is used on hook routes (taking his speed out of the equation),

:goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting:

I'll never understand why they time after time after time after time have Austin doing this right now.

Plenty of blame to go around for the Rams performance last night. I expect Bradford (again) to outlast the OC there.

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If you keep the OC, then we'll continue to see crap where Austin is used on hook routes (taking his speed out of the equation),

:goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting:

I'll never understand why they time after time after time after time have Austin doing this right now.

Plenty of blame to go around for the Rams performance last night. I expect Bradford (again) to outlast the OC there.

I expect both to be gone in the next 2 years. Bradford is owed like $30 million of non guaranteed money. No way they can spend that much money on him. And the way it's going now, they very well might have two top 5 picks in the draft. EASY to get one of the premier QB prospects with those picks...

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I think the complete absence of a running game is more to blame than Bradford. Just ask Eli Manning.

:goodposting: The OC should be flamed before Bradford - the play calling is terrible and he (and the HC) should know that most quarterbacks - especially young quarterbacks get flustered in battle when things are going that bad

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The Rams WRs are all small....you do not win without legit red-zone targets. Tavon Austin is a joke of a pick. Good luck getting that midget to be successful in the NFL. And this assuming he stays healthy getting beat up by bigger guys not only as a WR but also as a punt returner

Tavon Austin in the right situation would be an incredible weapon. He might still be, if he's utilized correctly. Brian Shottenheimer is not the guy you bring in to run a creative, modern offense. He's awful.

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I think the complete absence of a running game is more to blame than Bradford. Just ask Eli Manning.

:goodposting: The OC should be flamed before Bradford - the play calling is terrible and he (and the HC) should know that most quarterbacks - especially young quarterbacks get flustered in battle when things are going that bad
There's lots of blame to go around but the fact is, St. L doesn't have as much talent on offense as anyone expected. Turd QB. Diarrhea at RB. Poo on the oline. Crap at WR. Asking any OC to turn this conglomerate of feces into gold is simply asking too much.
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  • 2 weeks later...

it was the jags, we'll see how he does next week, on the road against good defense in HOU...

bradford looked horrific against SF...

but look what SF defense did to HOU... 34-3 (STL lost 35-11 week 4?)...

seemed like some were taking one of the worst games in his career (in which OL was terrible, RB same, WRs plagued by drops, defense awful, all sharing in culpability), and throwing his body of work in the trash based on that...

he is still on pace for 4,000+ yards and 30+ TDs... he is around QB10 depending on scoring system, better than where he was drafted...

he has been inconsistent, but can possibly be more useful on match up basis (started him over kaepernick in one or two leagues)...

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Any thoughts on Givens? I know Bradford has been remiss on throwing deep. I didn't watch the game, but heard he targeted Givens a few times deep vs the Jags. Last year it seemed as if Givens was catching a deep ball or two per game. I expected that to continue this year and even progress. Anyone still holding onto Givens hoping for a rebound going forward? I still think he's the most talented Wr on the Rams, but have been very disappointed thus far to say the least.

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Any thoughts on Givens? I know Bradford has been remiss on throwing deep. I didn't watch the game, but heard he targeted Givens a few times deep vs the Jags. Last year it seemed as if Givens was catching a deep ball or two per game. I expected that to continue this year and even progress. Anyone still holding onto Givens hoping for a rebound going forward? I still think he's the most talented Wr on the Rams, but have been very disappointed thus far to say the least.

Givens has really disappointed. All signs were pointing toward a nice year with a decent floor and high enough ceiling... but we seem stuck in the basement. So much for potential #1 WR numbers on a rising offense

It's likely time to drop him, unless it's a deep league / large rosters.

Which leaves me wondering how Bradford has scored this well to date with Givens underperforming so much. Bradford might be meh from an NFL perspective, but he's been pretty nice fantasy wise, especially for two QB leagues (where QBs are like RBs used to be in fantasy - and to get a low end #1 high #2 guy can be huge)

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No threat of a running game, below avg to bad WR corps, below avg to bad OL. Not many young QBs are going to flourish. Great kid. I hope he figures it out and/or he gets a couple of weapons.

I think it's a little early to call the WR group "bad". The big problem with their WR group is that they don't have a veteran presence around. Givens, Austin, Pettis, Quick, etc. all are talented, but need they need that reliable veteran to pull the group together (and to help mentor the young guys).

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Any thoughts on Givens? I know Bradford has been remiss on throwing deep. I didn't watch the game, but heard he targeted Givens a few times deep vs the Jags. Last year it seemed as if Givens was catching a deep ball or two per game. I expected that to continue this year and even progress. Anyone still holding onto Givens hoping for a rebound going forward? I still think he's the most talented Wr on the Rams, but have been very disappointed thus far to say the least.

I am still holding, but probably not for long. I still think Givens has the talent to be a star, but it just isn't playing out on the field for him; Pettis, Austin and Cook all seem to be better fantasy targets at the moment. If there is anything to remain encouraged by, it is that Givens is still being targeted fairly heavily, 7 times this week, and 8 targets each of the past 3 games.

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Any thoughts on Givens? I know Bradford has been remiss on throwing deep. I didn't watch the game, but heard he targeted Givens a few times deep vs the Jags. Last year it seemed as if Givens was catching a deep ball or two per game. I expected that to continue this year and even progress. Anyone still holding onto Givens hoping for a rebound going forward? I still think he's the most talented Wr on the Rams, but have been very disappointed thus far to say the least.

I am still holding, but probably not for long. I still think Givens has the talent to be a star, but it just isn't playing out on the field for him; Pettis, Austin and Cook all seem to be better fantasy targets at the moment. If there is anything to remain encouraged by, it is that Givens is still being targeted fairly heavily, 7 times this week, and 8 targets each of the past 3 games.

Givens isn't going to "take over" this year, unless the Rams make a conscious effort to get him the ball. But honestly, many of his routes are deeper and take longer to develop, and Sam hasn't had that kind of time. Without time, Sam just throws quick slants, and keeps everything underneath. Throw in a paltry running game, and it's a recipe for a pretty bad offense. Jacksonville is an aberration that you can forget. The only positive is the possibility that the Jacksonville game gives them confidence and it carries over.

But I didn't see a big philosophical shift in what St. Louis was doing against Jacksonville. I just saw a pathetic Jags defense that couldn't stop what the Rams were doing.

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No threat of a running game, below avg to bad WR corps, below avg to bad OL. Not many young QBs are going to flourish. Great kid. I hope he figures it out and/or he gets a couple of weapons.

I think it's a little early to call the WR group "bad".

OK, what about now?

You're talking about three guys who were drafted in the past two seasons. Givens has already showed flashes, while Austin and Quick are still developing. Pettis has been in the league a little longer and is also showing flashes of at least being a solid receiver.

It's rare that a received comes into the league and immediately produces. Sure, it happens, but more often than not it takes a little while to develop.

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Bradford is outscoring Cam in one of my leagues.

He's the #8 QB in my leagues scoring, ahead of Stafford, Eli, Newton, RG3, etc. and he's almost identical in scoring to Andrew Luck. I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable rolling him out ahead of those guys (other than maybe Eli), but the fact is, he's producing fairly well in terms of fantasy production.

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No threat of a running game, below avg to bad WR corps, below avg to bad OL. Not many young QBs are going to flourish. Great kid. I hope he figures it out and/or he gets a couple of weapons.

I think it's a little early to call the WR group "bad".

OK, what about now?

You're talking about three guys who were drafted in the past two seasons. Givens has already showed flashes, while Austin and Quick are still developing. Pettis has been in the league a little longer and is also showing flashes of at least being a solid receiver.

It's rare that a received comes into the league and immediately produces. Sure, it happens, but more often than not it takes a little while to develop.

OK. I'll wait another day then.

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Bradford is outscoring Cam in one of my leagues.

He's the #8 QB in my leagues scoring, ahead of Stafford, Eli, Newton, RG3, etc. and he's almost identical in scoring to Andrew Luck. I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable rolling him out ahead of those guys (other than maybe Eli), but the fact is, he's producing fairly well in terms of fantasy production.

The system is a good one for a QB. Volume alone brings some level of consistency, and he has enough talent around him to spike up a few really good games. Again, marginal or worse ROS in typical leagues, but a huge value for 2QB / Flex leagues

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Givens should be dropped. Givens is a field stretcher and Shott does not go down field. When asked about why there are so many 5 yard passes Fisher said that they are against risk. This offense is NYJ of 09-11. Shott has made Sam into a game manager despite the fact that according to PFF Bradford has one of the most accurate downfield throw rating in the last 3 years. Apparently the new ribbon on the offense that everyone was talking about regarding Austin was to have him take two steps, turn around and catch the ball 8 times a game. I can't think of a more inept offensive coordinator.

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No threat of a running game, below avg to bad WR corps, below avg to bad OL. Not many young QBs are going to flourish. Great kid. I hope he figures it out and/or he gets a couple of weapons.

I think it's a little early to call the WR group "bad".

OK, what about now?

I am just waking and having coffee so my mind isn't clicking, but was trying to think of some QBs that got things rolling after 3 seasons. Was Bradshaw bad a few years then got the hang of it? Sad that is the only name I got. Who else?

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No threat of a running game, below avg to bad WR corps, below avg to bad OL. Not many young QBs are going to flourish. Great kid. I hope he figures it out and/or he gets a couple of weapons.

I think it's a little early to call the WR group "bad".

OK, what about now?

I am just waking and having coffee so my mind isn't clicking, but was trying to think of some QBs that got things rolling after 3 seasons. Was Bradshaw bad a few years then got the hang of it? Sad that is the only name I got. Who else?

I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

you left out part about him being borderline top 10 this year...

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

And who was he throwing to? Amendola was his best WR. Catch short pass, fall down. Rinse and repeat. Brandon Gibson? Danario Alexander for a few games. Quick? A project that has yet to be completed. Mark Clayton had a nice few games before getting injured. Pettis? Salas? Kendrick's has never figured it out.

Now he has weapons they say. Jared Cook has underperformed for his career. Maybe he wasn't used right, maybe he's not all that good. Tavon Austin is a tiny rookie that the OC has run button hooks rather than get him the ball in space. Givens was a beast last year on the deep route. This year, they don't run him deep.

Oh, and Sam had to learn a new offense every year. Alex Smith had something similar, but actually had skilled WR's. He finally got some stability and took the team to the NFC championship before being shipped out to KC where he is doing really well.

Sam Bradford needs talent around him and stability in the coaching staff. The problem is his OC is friggin terrible. So if they replace the guy then he has to learn another offense. I doubt he will ever really dominate in St. Louis due to these circumstances, but I feel if he were on a different team he would be living up to his potential...

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

you left out part about him being borderline top 10 this year...

I also left out that he's 22nd in completion % and 32nd (!) in Y/A in QBs that have over 80 attempts this season. 32nd in yards per attempt. That is dog####.

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Givens should be dropped. Givens is a field stretcher and Shott does not go down field. When asked about why there are so many 5 yard passes Fisher said that they are against risk. This offense is NYJ of 09-11. Shott has made Sam into a game manager despite the fact that according to PFF Bradford has one of the most accurate downfield throw rating in the last 3 years. Apparently the new ribbon on the offense that everyone was talking about regarding Austin was to have him take two steps, turn around and catch the ball 8 times a game. I can't think of a more inept offensive coordinator.

:goodposting: Sometimes I wonder how he still has a job.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

He absolutely did have a good year FOR A ROOKIE. Very good rd to int ratio and he took a 1-15 TEAM and immediately turned them into a 7-9 team. It wasn't the coaching staff that made them win. They were immediately fired. Steven Jackson had 3 yrs that year. The defense was terrible. And if you just want to look at the stats, he had a historic rookie year.

I hold Sam to the same standards as you. In your words, he should be held to the same as the 31 other qbs. I have news for you, he's statitstically average or better and he's improving on that each year. He's doing that with nothing around him and a new scheme every year. Sam can't suit up on defense and make his d give up less than 30 a game.

To answer your question, yes I will use what is around him and the poor circumstances he's put in until it's fixed. I am not even a Bradford fan. I'm a rams fan, and I'm intelligent enough to see this black hole he is in. Does he leave plays on the field? Yes. Every qb does. I'd just like to see what things would be like in an even playing field.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

And who was he throwing to? Amendola was his best WR. Catch short pass, fall down. Rinse and repeat. Brandon Gibson? Danario Alexander for a few games. Quick? A project that has yet to be completed. Mark Clayton had a nice few games before getting injured. Pettis? Salas? Kendrick's has never figured it out.

Now he has weapons they say. Jared Cook has underperformed for his career. Maybe he wasn't used right, maybe he's not all that good. Tavon Austin is a tiny rookie that the OC has run button hooks rather than get him the ball in space. Givens was a beast last year on the deep route. This year, they don't run him deep.

Oh, and Sam had to learn a new offense every year. Alex Smith had something similar, but actually had skilled WR's. He finally got some stability and took the team to the NFC championship before being shipped out to KC where he is doing really well.

Sam Bradford needs talent around him and stability in the coaching staff. The problem is his OC is friggin terrible. So if they replace the guy then he has to learn another offense. I doubt he will ever really dominate in St. Louis due to these circumstances, but I feel if he were on a different team he would be living up to his potential...

It's nothing that hasn't been said, but you have good thoughts here. I never said it was all on him. I'm just talking about the results here. The problem is that it doesn't matter his circumstances are poor (are they that bad right now? ehhhh). A QB that has regular poor performances and failed expectations eventually gets fired. I don't know how long Bradford has, but the reasons for Bradford failing expectations matter less than that the failed expectations exist.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

He absolutely did have a good year FOR A ROOKIE. Very good rd to int ratio and he took a 1-15 TEAM and immediately turned them into a 7-9 team. It wasn't the coaching staff that made them win. They were immediately fired. Steven Jackson had 3 yrs that year. The defense was terrible. And if you just want to look at the stats, he had a historic rookie year.

I hold Sam to the same standards as you. In your words, he should be held to the same as the 31 other qbs. I have news for you, he's statitstically average or better and he's improving on that each year. He's doing that with nothing around him and a new scheme every year. Sam can't suit up on defense and make his d give up less than 30 a game.

To answer your question, yes I will use what is around him and the poor circumstances he's put in until it's fixed. I am not even a Bradford fan. I'm a rams fan, and I'm intelligent enough to see this black hole he is in. Does he leave plays on the field? Yes. Every qb does. I'd just like to see what things would be like in an even playing field.

Okay, for a rookie. Glad we have those stipulations. I wouldn't have responded to that if it was stated clearly in the first place.

He isn't statistically average or better either. Not this year, not in previous years. If you want to use volume based numbers, go right ahead. They mean much less than efficiency based numbers. Since 2010, he's thrown the ball more than anyone but Brees, Ryan, Brady, Eli, Rivers and Flacco. Compared to those guys, his aggregate TDs, yards are way behind. His efficiency numbers are very low on a yearly basis.

Not going to address the excuses because it's the same old stuff.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

you left out part about him being borderline top 10 this year...

I also left out that he's 22nd in completion % and 32nd (!) in Y/A in QBs that have over 80 attempts this season. 32nd in yards per attempt. That is dog####.

Since you don't know the whole picture let me explain it for you. Through 5 games the Rams have 31 dropped balls. That is essentially a full games worth of catches. The next team has 22. According to Howard Balzer, the Rams are on pace to shatter the drop record by the equivalent of two games. That is why his percentage is down and that is why no balls are being thrown downfield.

In game one the Rams barely threw short. Game two the short passes went up 300% and it's gone up every game since. They didn't throw this short last year. It's all system and the fact that they are trying to force to Austin, and every throw to Austin is designed to go right at the los.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.
He absolutely did have a good year FOR A ROOKIE. Very good rd to int ratio and he took a 1-15 TEAM and immediately turned them into a 7-9 team. It wasn't the coaching staff that made them win. They were immediately fired. Steven Jackson had 3 yrs that year. The defense was terrible. And if you just want to look at the stats, he had a historic rookie year.

I hold Sam to the same standards as you. In your words, he should be held to the same as the 31 other qbs. I have news for you, he's statitstically average or better and he's improving on that each year. He's doing that with nothing around him and a new scheme every year. Sam can't suit up on defense and make his d give up less than 30 a game.

To answer your question, yes I will use what is around him and the poor circumstances he's put in until it's fixed. I am not even a Bradford fan. I'm a rams fan, and I'm intelligent enough to see this black hole he is in. Does he leave plays on the field? Yes. Every qb does. I'd just like to see what things would be like in an even playing field.

Okay, for a rookie. Glad we have those stipulations. I wouldn't have responded to that if it was stated clearly in the first place.

He isn't statistically average or better either. Not this year, not in previous years. If you want to use volume based numbers, go right ahead. They mean much less than efficiency based numbers. Since 2010, he's thrown the ball more than anyone but Brees, Ryan, Brady, Eli, Rivers and Flacco. Compared to those guys, his aggregate TDs, yards are way behind. His efficiency numbers are very low on a yearly basis.

Not going to address the excuses because it's the same old stuff.

You can ding Bradford for only going underneath and volume stats if he had a choice. He's doing what he's told and getting the job done.
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Bradford doesn't look bad at all to me. Some plays sure, but all in all he looks fine.

Austin either seems slow on a play or they're not using his lightning quicks and Cook is cook.

As mentioned aboved, the drops are ridiculous.

Every? preseason article was about their improved offensive weapons and Fish and Co aren't giving that impression at all. Austin needs to make some plays and get in space. Cook needs to finally learn to be consistent.

I know the hatred for Bradford on these boards, but if the ball is "right there" how can you blame him? A QB has to get a mulligan if it's a catchable ball.

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Have Givens in a deep dynasty and holding on to him but Schotty could mean he is riding the pine for a while yet.Terrance Williams or TY Hilton will be starting as my Wr3 for the foreseeable future.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.
He absolutely did have a good year FOR A ROOKIE. Very good rd to int ratio and he took a 1-15 TEAM and immediately turned them into a 7-9 team. It wasn't the coaching staff that made them win. They were immediately fired. Steven Jackson had 3 yrs that year. The defense was terrible. And if you just want to look at the stats, he had a historic rookie year.

I hold Sam to the same standards as you. In your words, he should be held to the same as the 31 other qbs. I have news for you, he's statitstically average or better and he's improving on that each year. He's doing that with nothing around him and a new scheme every year. Sam can't suit up on defense and make his d give up less than 30 a game.

To answer your question, yes I will use what is around him and the poor circumstances he's put in until it's fixed. I am not even a Bradford fan. I'm a rams fan, and I'm intelligent enough to see this black hole he is in. Does he leave plays on the field? Yes. Every qb does. I'd just like to see what things would be like in an even playing field.

Okay, for a rookie. Glad we have those stipulations. I wouldn't have responded to that if it was stated clearly in the first place.

He isn't statistically average or better either. Not this year, not in previous years. If you want to use volume based numbers, go right ahead. They mean much less than efficiency based numbers. Since 2010, he's thrown the ball more than anyone but Brees, Ryan, Brady, Eli, Rivers and Flacco. Compared to those guys, his aggregate TDs, yards are way behind. His efficiency numbers are very low on a yearly basis.

Not going to address the excuses because it's the same old stuff.

You can ding Bradford for only going underneath and volume stats if he had a choice. He's doing what he's told and getting the job done.

I'm trying to make this impersonal about Bradford. I know he doesn't have a good team around him. My judgement is not with him as a QB, it's with the fantasy product he produces.

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

you left out part about him being borderline top 10 this year...

I also left out that he's 22nd in completion % and 32nd (!) in Y/A in QBs that have over 80 attempts this season. 32nd in yards per attempt. That is dog####.

just thought it was odd you would neglect to mention he is top 10 or borderline, when that is most obvious reason people would continue to hold him?

so he isn't like the 31 other QBs (he is like about 10 other QBs?), in that context and respect, that is an oversight to be generous, at best... if not, a misstatement, unsympathetically...

i'm not in any leagues that you get dropped out of the top 10 for having low completion percentage or Y/A average. are you?

* if you have a strong case, probably isn't necessary to curse to make it...

maybe take a deep breath and count to 10 before responding next time.

and remember, its just a game, dude... we aren't defusing a detonator here. :)

** i just think posts that are 100%, completely, totally negative (or positive) lose credibility...

i could tell you many things negative things about bradford...

can you come up with any positives on bradford...

if you were picked to enter a debate, and HAD to come up with positives, or god forbid, were his agent, is there a single positive you could come up with?

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I'd say he had a great season his rookie year and last year he was at least an average QB. This year he's doing his part. His team is more of the culprit than him. So what do we have here? Not many wins, but Sam himself is progressing and putting up a good deal of scores. More scores than the average NL QB. Very few interceptions. Yet somehow the Rams are not winning. There is no imagination in the system. Zero rb TD's and no RB plays over 15 yards. The defense is giving up 30 points a game.

Sam's issue is that he will always be held to his draft position and his monstrous rookie contract.

He didn't have a great season his rookie year. He had superficially impressive numbers because he threw the ball more than anyone but Manning and Brees. His efficiency stats were poor. He was near the bottom in comp % and Y/A. You still want to blame his faults on other people? OK. That's what has been going on since he entered the league. I don't see people holding him to his draft position and contract. The contract is an obvious negative. I do see people holding him to the fact that he's a starting QB in this league and he's expected to play well, just like the other 31 starting QBs in this league.

He absolutely did have a good year FOR A ROOKIE. Very good rd to int ratio and he took a 1-15 TEAM and immediately turned them into a 7-9 team. It wasn't the coaching staff that made them win. They were immediately fired. Steven Jackson had 3 yrs that year. The defense was terrible. And if you just want to look at the stats, he had a historic rookie year.

I hold Sam to the same standards as you. In your words, he should be held to the same as the 31 other qbs. I have news for you, he's statitstically average or better and he's improving on that each year. He's doing that with nothing around him and a new scheme every year. Sam can't suit up on defense and make his d give up less than 30 a game.

To answer your question, yes I will use what is around him and the poor circumstances he's put in until it's fixed. I am not even a Bradford fan. I'm a rams fan, and I'm intelligent enough to see this black hole he is in. Does he leave plays on the field? Yes. Every qb does. I'd just like to see what things would be like in an even playing field.

they got to 7-9 last year also, after being a laughing stock previous year...

yet he gets no credit for that, all to fisher...

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they got to 7-9 last year also, after being a laughing stock previous year...

yet he gets no credit for that, all to fisher...

That might have something to do with the fact that he was the QB when they were a laughingstock, and played horribly.

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they got to 7-9 last year also, after being a laughing stock previous year...

yet he gets no credit for that, all to fisher...

That might have something to do with the fact that he was the QB when they were a laughingstock, and played horribly.

the point i was trying to make, obviously not well, was he gets bashed when they do poorly, but no credit the two times they got to near .500, and seemingly had no business doing so.

but maybe that seems consistent to you?

if you are being consistent, when they approached .500 twice (and we are talking about a team that was 15-65 BEFORE fisher... the rams were one of the most horrifically bad teams in league history for that half decade stretch, three of those years before bradford... so they weren't just bad, they were putrid before bradford... that is what he is inherited... and it isn't like they were unlucky and caught some bad breaks in 30 or 40 of those losses :) ), do you give him any credit for those seasons, or none?

i can certainly think of no shortage of reasons where bradford made mistakes and failed in the laughing stock years... but again, i do think there may have been some mitigating circumstances... when they are deemphasized or suppressed, i just think that posts that are purely, 100% negative without any attempt at balance or proportion, lose credibility...

* have you considered the possibility that he wasn't in the best possible position to succeed, with bad coaching, OL, WRs and defense?

** another way to frame this debate... YOU ARE THE OC!

are you going to take tavon austin and have him go out one yard and squat while defenders converge on him and neutralize his best attribute (quickness and elusiveness in space)?

in your opinion, what does using austin in this way do for bradford...

is that good or bad for him...

if that is the OCs scheme, is it bradford's fault for implementing it?

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