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***OFFICIAL*** 2012 Washington Redskins Season Thread (2 Viewers)

Carriker is out for the season. Oof. I guess we'll find out if Jarvis Jenkins can regain his form from last preseason, which he hasn't regained so far. He's reportedly having trouble staying low enough after his first step.

 
It's getting lost in the shuffle with the complaints about special teams and the idiocy of Josh Morgan, but the decision to punt on 4th and 7 from the Rams 39 with 7 minutes left and the Redskins down 3 was absolutely inexcusable. Going for it would have been fine. Attempting the game-tying FG from 53 or 54 yards would have been fine. Punting was a disaster. Things went as well as they possibly could have gone post-decision: punt downed at the 11 yard line, then a three and out for the Rams- and even with everything going to plan, all they did was cost themselves 2:13 off the clock and 39 yards of field position in exchange for three downs.

If a 62 yard FG to tie the game is within the range of possibility (to the point that it's more likely to happen than a 4th and 16 conversion), how is a 53 yard FG try so impossible that the team is better off pinning St. Louis on the11 instead of the 37?

So, so dumb.

 
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'fatness said:
'dgreen said:
'RGIII HTTR said:
Morgan is a BONEHEAD!
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His ball toss is over-shadowing another mistake on that play. He turned towards the outside after the catch (maybe thinking about getting out of bounds?), when he could have turned inside and had an easy first down.
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I was going to mention that too, turning the wrong way and passing up the first down. They really needed a first down there, not a 4th down for a rookie QB or a long FG by a kicker who was cut for not being good on long FG's.By the way, the 62-yard FG attempt was the stupidest game call I've seen Mike Shanahan make. Why not try from 90 yards out?
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agreed. The Morgan play is completely overshadowing Shanny's decision there, but I hated it even before I saw how badly the kick missed. RG3 has a great arm...I know 4th and 16 is a longshot, but I'd much rather give him a chance there.What are the odds of making a 62 yard FG? Now take that and multiply times 0.5(since a FG only ties it, its fair to assume that they'll win ~50% of the time when the game goes to OT).What are the odds of RG3 throwing it deep into the end zone for a TD or PI? The defense will have to respect the 16 yard out patterns as well as RG3's ability to take off and scramble for 16 yards, so its not like they can just put a ton of defenders back in the end zone.(technically I'm ignoring that there would be ~1:00 left for Bradford to come down to score a TD though)I would've liked to go for it, send 2 WRs deep, 2 WRs run 16-20 yard patterns, RG3 can scramble if he sees an opening....and let the game rest on RG3's shoulders.
 
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'Assani Fisher said:
'fatness said:
'dgreen said:
'RGIII HTTR said:
Morgan is a BONEHEAD!
Click to expand...
His ball toss is over-shadowing another mistake on that play. He turned towards the outside after the catch (maybe thinking about getting out of bounds?), when he could have turned inside and had an easy first down.
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I was going to mention that too, turning the wrong way and passing up the first down. They really needed a first down there, not a 4th down for a rookie QB or a long FG by a kicker who was cut for not being good on long FG's.By the way, the 62-yard FG attempt was the stupidest game call I've seen Mike Shanahan make. Why not try from 90 yards out?
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agreed. The Morgan play is completely overshadowing Shanny's decision there, but I hated it even before I saw how badly the kick missed. RG3 has a great arm...I know 4th and 16 is a longshot, but I'd much rather give him a chance there.What are the odds of making a 62 yard FG? Now take that and multiply times 0.5(since a FG only ties it, its fair to assume that they'll win ~50% of the time when the game goes to OT).

What are the odds of RG3 throwing it deep into the end zone for a TD or PI? The defense will have to respect the 16 yard out patterns as well as RG3's ability to take off and scramble for 16 yards, so its not like they can just put a ton of defenders back in the end zone.(technically I'm ignoring that there would be ~1:00 left for Bradford to come down to score a TD though)

I would've liked to go for it, send 2 WRs deep, 2 WRs run 16-20 yard patterns, RG3 can scramble if he sees an opening....and let the game rest on RG3's shoulders.
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4th and 7, however, is not a longshot. Especially for a QB like RGIII who can scramble so effectively. Take away his need to protect himself (4th and 7 with seven minutes left changes the cost/benefit) and it's almost impossible to imagine him not either finding an open receiver or having a shot to beat a defender to the first down marker.But Shanahan chose to punt, and we had to start all over again.

 
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On the bright side. We werent going to compete for a superbowl this year. maybe we can find some young talent at those positions? :unsure:

RG3 is going to spend alot of time on the field... im a little worried for his safety.

 
Shanny says they would have gone for it on 4th and 1, had it not been for Morgan penalty.

Shanny also says that he did not submit Rams game tape to the NFL for clarification on rules that he disagreed with as "There were too many plays."

Said coaches, starting with him need to make sure players know importance of "protect first and cover second."

 
Merriweather might come back this week, will evaluate this Wednesday.

Josh Wilson will go through regular concussion steps to come back.

 
'RGIII HTTR said:
Shanny also says that he did not submit Rams game tape to the NFL for clarification on rules that he disagreed with as "There were too many plays."
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Piss poor leadership right there. Regardless of the response from the NFL, there were a ton of bad calls and no-calls yesterday (that affected both teams). Instead of questioning WTF was going on, the Skins players instead see their head coach rolling over and giving up. I would expect Jim Zorn to do that; not Mike Shanahan.
 
link

The Redskins’ defense needed good news. It got the worst instead: two-time Pro Bowler Brian Orakpo and starting left defensive end Adam Carriker are done for the season. Orakpo tore a muscle in his left pectoral and Carriker tore his right quadriceps in Sunday’s 31-28 loss to St. Louis. Carriker faces a six-month recovery period; Orakpo faces a four-month recovery.

Jarvis Jenkins will replace Carriker in the starting lineup while Rob Jackson and Chris Wilson will compete for Orakpo’s spot. Both played Sunday. Coach Mike Shanahan said they’ll likely promote defensive end Doug Worthington off the practice squad to take Carriker’s roster spot.

Orakpo injured his left pectoral muscle in the 2011 season finale and needed offseason surgery. He re-injured it this summer in the second preseason game. Shanahan said he tore a different part of the muscle Sunday.
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'fatness said:
'RGIII HTTR said:
Shanny also says that he did not submit Rams game tape to the NFL for clarification on rules that he disagreed with as "There were too many plays."
Click to expand...
Piss poor leadership right there. Regardless of the response from the NFL, there were a ton of bad calls and no-calls yesterday (that affected both teams). Instead of questioning WTF was going on, the Skins players instead see their head coach rolling over and giving up. I would expect Jim Zorn to do that; not Mike Shanahan.
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:confused:He's saying there were so many horrible calls that he wouldn't have enough time to put them all together to send to the NFL. My guess is he was saying that in a joking or jabbing manner and not in a rolling over and giving up manner.You don't need rules clarifications on nonsensical calls. If they did submit the plays, the NFL would simply say, "Um, yeah, those were all wrong and shouldn't have been called that way."
 
that sucks about Orakpo and Carriker, guys. I enjoy watching RGIII play so I'll be rooting for WAS except when you play ATL later.

 
'fatness said:
'RGIII HTTR said:
Shanny also says that he did not submit Rams game tape to the NFL for clarification on rules that he disagreed with as "There were too many plays."
Click to expand...
Piss poor leadership right there. Regardless of the response from the NFL, there were a ton of bad calls and no-calls yesterday (that affected both teams). Instead of questioning WTF was going on, the Skins players instead see their head coach rolling over and giving up. I would expect Jim Zorn to do that; not Mike Shanahan.
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:lmao: oh come on. He was obviously just poking at the horrible officiating. Over-react much?
 
Wonder what this ends up doing to the skins RB situation. I know, I know, the common sense answer is it helps AlfMo because they'll want to run clock, keep the other team off the field, yada yada yada. But with those two players out for the year, I think the more likely situation is the skins are playing from behind constantly the rest of the year. Makes a pass catching back like Helu more valuable, and a three yards and a cloud of dust like AlfMo less. I don't know. Guess I/we have to sit back and see how this all develops. But I can't lie. Losing those two felt like a kick in the nuts. This defense looked pathetic enough Sunday. Now, I just don't think the skins can outscore teams enough to win games even with RG3. Because this defense is likely going to become a sieve.

 
I've thought about it all day and I still agree with my initial reactions to trying the 62-yard FG:

1. Morgan you idiot!

2. Shanahan effectively waved the white flag with over a minute left in the game.

There could not have been anyone on the sideline telling him Cundiff could make it. The conversion rate on 4th and 16 is, as best I can tell, about 20%. Surely there are people in the coaching staff who know this, not just guys on message boards. Even if the conversion rate is under 10%, Griffin is elusive and his throws are accurate. The chance of converting the FG was 0%.

There was time to decide, Fisher had called a timeout. Yet the FG unit was sent onto the field pretty quickly, so it's not like he took a long time to decide.

It was like one of those old-guy moments like Gibbs used to have, like when he called 2 timeouts in a row. No thought, just did it.

What a horrible decision. It was like surrender.

 
'dgreen said:
He's saying there were so many horrible calls that he wouldn't have enough time to put them all together to send to the NFL. My guess is he was saying that in a joking or jabbing manner and not in a rolling over and giving up manner.

You don't need rules clarifications on nonsensical calls. If they did submit the plays, the NFL would simply say, "Um, yeah, those were all wrong and shouldn't have been called that way."
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Yeah, no sense questioning calls like this. I'm sure the players understand that he doesn't have the time.

Several Washington Redskins players expressed concern for the safety of themselves and others around the league on Monday after multiple late hits and cheap shots were not regulated by the replacement officials in the 31-28 loss at St. Louis a day earlier.
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link
 
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'ChrisCooleyFan said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
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next year when Haselett is gone and we return to a 4-3 We will see how good Rak is.
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We are not returning to a 4-3. Shanahan wanted a 3-4. It's what we have been drafting for his entire tenure. If he replaces Haslett, it will be with another DC who will run the 3-4. And it could be Morris, but that's another discussion entirely.
 
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is still early but right now Orakpo is turning into another Lavaar Arrington where he puts on some great moments and hits but did a lot of little things wrong on a consistent basis
 
'hammerva said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is still early but right now Orakpo is turning into another Lavaar Arrington where he puts on some great moments and hits but did a lot of little things wrong on a consistent basis
Click to expand...
Sorry, not directed at anyone specific, but want to cover this topic!In fairness, we didn't draft RAK to be a cover LB...we got him for his pass rushing ability. That is what he is...and yes, he will look dynamite at times doing it and look out of place at other times when he's not rushing the passer. Without starting a BIG DEBATE, the mistake we (Redskins) made with Lavar is similar to what is now being implied to RAK...we actually did try to make him something he is not. Lavar was a disrupting freak of an athlete that wreaked havoc in the back field for QB's and RB's, we drafted him for that but tried to make him a SLB and cover TE's. We have done some serious stupid #### over Snyder's tenure, but that was one of the more idiotic one's. Let RAK do what he does...remember, he was DE in college!!!!! Not every player can be Mr. Everything...that is why yo get complimentary player to help support the other deficiencies.
 
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'RGIII HTTR said:
'hammerva said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is still early but right now Orakpo is turning into another Lavaar Arrington where he puts on some great moments and hits but did a lot of little things wrong on a consistent basis
Click to expand...
Sorry, not directed at anyone specific, but want to cover this topic!In fairness, we didn't draft RAK to be a cover LB...we got him for his pass rushing ability. That is what he is...and yes, he will look dynamite at times doing it and look out of place at other times when he's not rushing the passer. Without starting a BIG DEBATE, the mistake we (Redskins) made with Lavar is similar to what is now being implied to RAK...we actually did try to make him something he is not. Lavar was a disrupting freak of an athlete that wreaked havoc in the back field for QB's and RB's, we drafted him for that but tried to make him a SLB and cover TE's. We have done some serious stupid #### over Snyder's tenure, but that was one of the more idiotic one's. Let RAK do what he does...remember, he was DE in college!!!!! Not every player can be Mr. Everything...that is why yo get complimentary player to help support the other deficiencies.
Click to expand...
Actually, I've heard some praise recently for his improvement in the run-stopping, pass-covering, and open-field-tackling categories. It sounds like he has actually responded fairly well to those assignments. I'm of the opinion that he's not as good of a pass rusher as we like to think he is. I can't think of many dominating stretches by Orakpo in that department. There haven't been too many occasions when he was consistently beating his opponent and making a huge difference.I'm not saying he sucks. He's just not what we hoped he could be. He's a good pass rusher and apparently has been improving in other areas. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't think the D is hopelessly lost without him.
 
'TobiasFunke said:
It's getting lost in the shuffle with the complaints about special teams and the idiocy of Josh Morgan, but the decision to punt on 4th and 7 from the Rams 39 with 7 minutes left and the Redskins down 3 was absolutely inexcusable. Going for it would have been fine. Attempting the game-tying FG from 53 or 54 yards would have been fine. Punting was a disaster. Things went as well as they possibly could have gone post-decision: punt downed at the 11 yard line, then a three and out for the Rams- and even with everything going to plan, all they did was cost themselves 2:13 off the clock and 39 yards of field position in exchange for three downs. If a 62 yard FG to tie the game is within the range of possibility (to the point that it's more likely to happen than a 4th and 16 conversion), how is a 53 yard FG try so impossible that the team is better off pinning St. Louis on the11 instead of the 37? So, so dumb.
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Yeah that was a real head scratcher. I don't like punting inside the 40 period, nevermind when you're down 3 in the 4th quarter and your kicker has a leg. I mean really.
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'fatness said:
Shanahan blames players, not Danny Smith.
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Not true at all. He specifically said the problem with the blocks start at the top, with him and the coaches. If he said something different after actually having time to review the tape, I'd be inclined to believe him, as much as I HATE Danny Smith.
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Shanahan took responsibility for it, mentioned what players did wrong, and didn't mention Danny Smith from what I can find.
Shanahan said the blocked punts are a different type of problem from the blocked field goals and that everyone, from himself on down, will work to correct the issue.

“Last year, if you take a look at the blocked field goals, we lost a number of offensive linemen. In every scenario, there’s a different person. You just keep on working to eliminate those problems,” Shanahan said. “I think we’ve done much better. We’ve stayed healthy in the offensive line. What happened yesterday is what I told you after the game — some person was more concerned with coverage than they were protection and all of sudden, you take off too quick and there’s another mistake. It compounds. You have to protect first and cover second. That starts with me. We’ll go back and keep on working on it.”
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linkI can't figure out what Danny Smith would have to do to get fired. 6 blocked FG's? 8 blocked punts? I swear he has pictures of Shanahan naked with goats.

 
'dgreen said:
'RGIII HTTR said:
'hammerva said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is still early but right now Orakpo is turning into another Lavaar Arrington where he puts on some great moments and hits but did a lot of little things wrong on a consistent basis
Click to expand...
Sorry, not directed at anyone specific, but want to cover this topic!In fairness, we didn't draft RAK to be a cover LB...we got him for his pass rushing ability. That is what he is...and yes, he will look dynamite at times doing it and look out of place at other times when he's not rushing the passer. Without starting a BIG DEBATE, the mistake we (Redskins) made with Lavar is similar to what is now being implied to RAK...we actually did try to make him something he is not. Lavar was a disrupting freak of an athlete that wreaked havoc in the back field for QB's and RB's, we drafted him for that but tried to make him a SLB and cover TE's. We have done some serious stupid #### over Snyder's tenure, but that was one of the more idiotic one's. Let RAK do what he does...remember, he was DE in college!!!!! Not every player can be Mr. Everything...that is why yo get complimentary player to help support the other deficiencies.
Click to expand...
Actually, I've heard some praise recently for his improvement in the run-stopping, pass-covering, and open-field-tackling categories. It sounds like he has actually responded fairly well to those assignments. I'm of the opinion that he's not as good of a pass rusher as we like to think he is. I can't think of many dominating stretches by Orakpo in that department. There haven't been too many occasions when he was consistently beating his opponent and making a huge difference.I'm not saying he sucks. He's just not what we hoped he could be. He's a good pass rusher and apparently has been improving in other areas. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't think the D is hopelessly lost without him.
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Fair enough, understand that and I too don't think we are lost without him. Though losing him on one side and Carriker on the other does not help matters...
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'dehaven123 said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
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ok.is he not the best player on the defense tho?who can make plays like rak is capable of?
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I would put Fletcher ahead of him, with Kerrigan right behind.
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fletch is an awesome, hof worthy, super smart mlb who does as much b4 the snap as he does during the plays. im not sure ive ever seen him miss a tackle. there is plenty of value in wat he does, no doubt.kerrigan seems to be a pretty steady, growing olb. no way he brings what rak brings tho.my point was, the skins lost heir best playmaker on the defense.as an example, not a single player on the def knocks down those 2 drew brees passes at the goal line in wk 1.this loss hurts as much as any loss they culd have had happen, outside rg3/trent.
 
'dehaven123 said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'dehaven123 said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
Click to expand...
ok.is he not the best player on the defense tho?who can make plays like rak is capable of?
Click to expand...
I would put Fletcher ahead of him, with Kerrigan right behind.
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fletch is an awesome, hof worthy, super smart mlb who does as much b4 the snap as he does during the plays. im not sure ive ever seen him miss a tackle. there is plenty of value in wat he does, no doubt.kerrigan seems to be a pretty steady, growing olb. no way he brings what rak brings tho.my point was, the skins lost heir best playmaker on the defense.as an example, not a single player on the def knocks down those 2 drew brees passes at the goal line in wk 1.this loss hurts as much as any loss they culd have had happen, outside rg3/trent.
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I know Orakpo was out by this time, but who was it that got the INT in the end zone? And who was it that forced the fumble late in the game to give us a shot? I think you explain Fletcher's strengths as a player pretty well above, but I do think you underrate his playmaking ability.
 
'dehaven123 said:
'dgreen said:
I wish him well, obviously, but I think Orakpo is a little over-rated. :shrug:
Click to expand...
ok.is he not the best player on the defense tho?who can make plays like rak is capable of?
Click to expand...
Kerrigan is already better. Orakpo was figured out by opposing offenses after his big start in his rookie year. He basically has one pass rush move that he does well, and they now aim at stopping that and have limited his influence on games. His rush defense has improved but he's not like the Great Wall of China. I like Orakpo, he's good, but Kerrigan makes more plays.
 
'Assani Fisher said:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/18/re-fo-redskins-rams/
Click to expand...
From that article:
Orakpo’s presence had already been felt, as he abused Rodger Saffold to the tune of a +1.6 pass rushing grade in just 13 snaps. He attempted to come back, but after five more snaps he had to call it quits. Saffold reinjured his neck on the same play Orakpo injured his pectoral, so the left tackle/right outside linebacker position battle became a second-team affair. Rob Jackson and Chris Wilson could only muster one quarterback hurry and one holding penalty on Wayne Hunter (+2.1 pass blocking) over the rest of the game.

While Carriker’s run defense had fallen off a bit (-9.0 in 2011), his and Orakpo’s presence will be sorely missed, especially the latter’s +17 overall grade in 2011. Opposing teams will be able to double-team Ryan Kerrigan on the opposite side without having to worry about Orakpo’s presence. The Redskins defense now looks to be a liability.
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'Marvelous said:
'TxBuckeye said:
'fatness said:
Sunday's game will be 41-37 but I have no clue who will win.
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The team with 41.
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One quick thought: The Redskins actually have an offense. They haven't had a decent offensive team since 1999 (the Norv Turner/Brad Johnson/Michael Westbrook/Albert Connell team).It's been a really long time.
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im still skeptical of some of the play calling vs the rams.. the defense gave the game away but still we should of had more points than that
 
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