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*****OFFICIAL FORMULA ONE GRAND PRIX THREAD***** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter cosjobs
- Start date
Mercedes can't get out of their own way this year. A lot of uncharacteristic mistakes/strategy calls this season.
Gotta say - I liked this from Max:
Max Verstappen @Max33Verstappen
As I will be starting from the back of the grid anyway, we decided to take no risks and to skip quali. Quite an interesting quali result!
Gotta say - I liked this from Max:
Max Verstappen @Max33Verstappen
As I will be starting from the back of the grid anyway, we decided to take no risks and to skip quali. Quite an interesting quali result!
PIK95
Footballguy
That was a fun qualifying session. Lewis broke his front wing on that pit wall, then he gently knocked his back wing into the track wall on that late spin. Someone is gonna have to hustle over to pep boys today to get that cart an alignment.
Congrats to Lando with the pole, and Sainz on grabbing that front row spot. Can Norris actually win this race?
Congrats to Lando with the pole, and Sainz on grabbing that front row spot. Can Norris actually win this race?
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PIK95
Footballguy
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
PIK95
Footballguy
I disagree. He made the call he wanted. Nobody really knows the weather. If he dove in he probably doesn't win anyway. He took a shot, and came VERY close to being right. I feel for him. Bad luck more than anything.
That power unit screw job by Mercedes on Bottas was awful. Him letting Max just slide by as payback was wonderful. I'm rooting for Bottas to grab one win this year after that.
"Screw job"?
I agree there might have been some tactical decisions there - but it hardly cost Bottas the race, nor should it have, given the way qualifying played out.
Me thinks your hatred of Mercedes is shining through...
Speaking of tactical decisions - I did find it curious that in the mid-race, when Max was running behind several cars he was not nearly as aggressive in that situation as he was when he took out Hamilton in Monza...I guess there was not as much to gain if you couldn't take out the leader...
"Officially" - Bottas was going to need additional parts before the end of the season.
"Unofficially" - I think Mercedes wanted Bottas to slow down Verstappen's charge to the front.
Oh, and this is just silly - imo.
The teams had access to the radar. The drivers could only see what was in front of them. But, the radar said heavier rain was coming in - and every team made the same call. It was the same situation when Mercedes left Hamilton out to start the race by himself in Hungary - it was the wrong call. Only this time it was made by the driver, with incomplete information. (Even Lando acknowledged this...)
Now, I don't know if he wins - Hamilton had been looking like he was going to overtake had it stayed dry - but, if Land had come in the same lap as everyone else (before Lewis) - he would have forced Mercedes into the same decision, and maybe Lewis would have made the same mistake and stayed out. If he came in the same time as Hamilton, then its a sprint to the finish. And, even if he had just come in the lap after Lewis, he had 2nd place locked up, and a podium spot.
PIK95
Footballguy
Google it. The entire internet outside of Mercedes fan strongly disagrees with you in that one. The only reason they made that change was to try and make Bottas block for Lewis. Bottas would have had a great chance to win from p7. They took that from him for a silly reason. All they care about is Lewis.
PIK95
Footballguy
Again, my point was the weather men get the weather forcast wrong quite often outside of temperatures. And in that situation, I can't blame Lando for staying out. Especially after Lewis boxed before him and undercut. If the rain held off for three more laps and he won, everyone is talking about what a genius he is.
The pundits also mentioned that Lewis would need to pick up six seconds a lap on Lando at the finish. After Lewis boxed, he wasn't catching Lando without the rain. Last, if Lewis was gonna catch him anyway, as you stated, even more reason to take the gamble. Norris wasn't playing for second. This may have been his only chance to ever win a race. I can't fault him at all for trying for the win. Once Lewis undercut him, he had no choice.
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Nobody has a "great" chance to win from P7, and particularly with your teammate, and 7-time world champion, in P4.
And, yes, as it stands today (yesterday), the team is concerned about two things: 1) winning the driver's championship, and 2) winning the constructor's championship.
Bottas is not a factor in the driver's championship. But, he is a key component to the constructor's championship. Mercedes makes decisions with those factors in mind.
Throughout his time at Mercedes, Bottas has been given the chance to compete with Hamilton - he just has not been able to do that with any consistency. Had Bottas been in the fight for the championship this year, it would have played out differently.
"In fact Bottas is understood to have had an issue with his new-for-Monza PU on Friday in Russia. That was then removed pending further checks in the UK, and he used an older example in qualifying on Saturday. In the end the team opted not to race that high mileage unit and take a new one for today, and with it the penalty hit"
However, there is no doubt that Mercedes is facing reliability concerns as the end of the season draws closer, especially with high mileage engines. There have been some very public failures – and some less obvious.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/engine-necessity-or-spoiler-tactic-whats-behind-bottas-grid-drop/6675062/
Sammy3469
Footballguy
This certainly seems sort of a pyrrhic victory. I'll be more than a little surprised if Lewis holds off Verstappen for the driver's championship.
Eephus
Footballguy
Cost control. Modern F1 PU components are supposed to last for seven race weekends which equates to around 2000 miles. I don't mind the grid penalties because they shuffle up the order but they can get ridiculous if a manufacturer is dealing with severe reliability problems. When Honda returned with McLaren in 2015, Button and Alonso lost a grand total of 305 grid places in a season due to PU replacements.
Back in the 80s and 90s, teams used to replace engines after every race and ran special engines for qualifying. There were more engine failures because equipment was running a lot closer to their mechanical limits.
Eephus
Footballguy
Qatar gets the race originally scheduled for Australia on Nov 21. It's only a week after Brazil so the teams will be even busier than usual.
The Losail circuit is another flat featureless track in the desert. The main straight is over a kilometer long so there should be passing into the first right hander. It's hosted some Moto GP events in the past.
F1 and the Qatari regime signed a ten year deal for a Grand Prix but the race will be moved to a newly built circuit perhaps as early as 2022.
The Losail circuit is another flat featureless track in the desert. The main straight is over a kilometer long so there should be passing into the first right hander. It's hosted some Moto GP events in the past.
F1 and the Qatari regime signed a ten year deal for a Grand Prix but the race will be moved to a newly built circuit perhaps as early as 2022.
Eephus
Footballguy
The current circuit was built in the early 2000s.
In 2006, it hosted the short-lived GP Masters series that attempted to create a seniors tour for racers. It's on YouTube if anyone is interested in seeing old Nige and Emmo racing in the desert. The legendary Murray Walker does the call.
Eephus
Footballguy
The English press is reporting Guanyu Zhou will get the second Alfa seat next year to become the first Chinese F1 driver. Zhou supposedly is bringing 30M EU in sponsorship money to the team which is more than Dmitri Mazepin pays Haas.
Zhou is in second place in this year's F2 standings but it's his third time through the series. The hottest driving prospects are generally those who are immediately fast on each rung of the development ladder. Zhou hasn't been like that which would rank him more like Latifi or Mick Schumacher.
Zhou is in second place in this year's F2 standings but it's his third time through the series. The hottest driving prospects are generally those who are immediately fast on each rung of the development ladder. Zhou hasn't been like that which would rank him more like Latifi or Mick Schumacher.
Eephus
Footballguy
Gasly beat Perez in every qualifying session today.
Young Mick making Q2 again is the season highlight for Haas. He's beaten Mazepin 14-0 on Saturdays.
I don't know what kind of race to expect. The rain and track surface issues last year makes 2020 an outlier. The last Turkish GP before that was in 2011, the first year of DRS. The highlights look like there will be some passing into turn 12 tomorrow.
Young Mick making Q2 again is the season highlight for Haas. He's beaten Mazepin 14-0 on Saturdays.
I don't know what kind of race to expect. The rain and track surface issues last year makes 2020 an outlier. The last Turkish GP before that was in 2011, the first year of DRS. The highlights look like there will be some passing into turn 12 tomorrow.
I caught the last half of the race. Obviously the big talking point was whether Hamilton should have stayed out. I missed the post-race comments from Toto - but I think the team probably made the right call. Its not at all clear that the tires would have held up for 8 more laps - particularly if Hamilton was having to defend his position for many of them.
The "new" talking points - Red Bull think Mercedes did something funky to the engine (when teams are not permitted to make power upgrades). Mercedes, of course, deny - but its just more gamesmanship going into the final races of the season.
I thought it was an interesting observation though - because I thought they were talking in the race about how Hamilton had less straight-line pace, but more pace in the corners due to more downforce added to the car. So, it seems odd that Red Bull would complain about straight-line pace.
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has expressed his "surprise" at gains he says Mercedes have made with their engine performance.
Under Formula 1's rules, the title rivals are not allowed to improve the power of their engines in-season.
Horner said Mercedes' straight-line speed "has taken a significant step recently".
"It's surprising they appear to have made the step they have with the power-unit," he added.
Mercedes reject Red Bull's claims, saying nothing has changed in their engine apart from fitting a new one to Hamilton's car for last weekend's Turkish Grand Prix.
The "new" talking points - Red Bull think Mercedes did something funky to the engine (when teams are not permitted to make power upgrades). Mercedes, of course, deny - but its just more gamesmanship going into the final races of the season.
I thought it was an interesting observation though - because I thought they were talking in the race about how Hamilton had less straight-line pace, but more pace in the corners due to more downforce added to the car. So, it seems odd that Red Bull would complain about straight-line pace.
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has expressed his "surprise" at gains he says Mercedes have made with their engine performance.
Under Formula 1's rules, the title rivals are not allowed to improve the power of their engines in-season.
Horner said Mercedes' straight-line speed "has taken a significant step recently".
"It's surprising they appear to have made the step they have with the power-unit," he added.
Mercedes reject Red Bull's claims, saying nothing has changed in their engine apart from fitting a new one to Hamilton's car for last weekend's Turkish Grand Prix.
Eephus
Footballguy
Ocon is the only one who ran a no-stop race. His pace dropped off considerably at the end, losing 22 seconds to his teammate over the last eight laps. I think Mercedes was playing defense, the risk was falling to 8th if the tires fell off a cliff.
Horner
The story of a possible Andretti acquisition of Sauber/Alfa won't go away. It's rumored there will be an announcement during the visit to COTA. Michael Andretti doesn't have that kind of money himself but has money from private equity and Gainbridge. Who knows? In any case it's a good story.
Horner
The story of a possible Andretti acquisition of Sauber/Alfa won't go away. It's rumored there will be an announcement during the visit to COTA. Michael Andretti doesn't have that kind of money himself but has money from private equity and Gainbridge. Who knows? In any case it's a good story.
'22 schedule to be released on Friday. 23-race schedule.
China will be out. Replaced with Emilia Romagna GP at Imola on 24 April.
Miami will be in as a 2nd US race.
Also of note - the schedule will end earlier, so that it does not conflict with the Winter World Cup in Qatar. This year's schedule runs until Mid-December.
Expected 2022 F1 calendar
20 March Bahrain (Sakhir)
27 March Saudi Arabia (Jeddah)
10 April Australia (Melbourne)
24 April Emilia Romagna (Imola)
8 May Miami
22 May Spain (Barcelona)
29 May Monaco
12 June Azerbaijan (Baku)
19 June Canada (Montreal)
3 July Great Britain (Silverstone)
10 July Austria (Spielberg)
24 July France (Le Castellet)
31 July Hungary (Budapest)
28 August Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
4 September Netherlands (Zandvoort)
11 September Italy (Monza)
25 September Russia (Sochi)
2 October Singapore (Marina Bay)
9 October Japan (Suzuka)
23 October USA (Austin)
30 October Mexico (Mexico City)
13 November Brazil (Sao Paulo)
20 November Abu Dhabi (Yas Marina)
China will be out. Replaced with Emilia Romagna GP at Imola on 24 April.
Miami will be in as a 2nd US race.
Also of note - the schedule will end earlier, so that it does not conflict with the Winter World Cup in Qatar. This year's schedule runs until Mid-December.
Expected 2022 F1 calendar
20 March Bahrain (Sakhir)
27 March Saudi Arabia (Jeddah)
10 April Australia (Melbourne)
24 April Emilia Romagna (Imola)
8 May Miami
22 May Spain (Barcelona)
29 May Monaco
12 June Azerbaijan (Baku)
19 June Canada (Montreal)
3 July Great Britain (Silverstone)
10 July Austria (Spielberg)
24 July France (Le Castellet)
31 July Hungary (Budapest)
28 August Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
4 September Netherlands (Zandvoort)
11 September Italy (Monza)
25 September Russia (Sochi)
2 October Singapore (Marina Bay)
9 October Japan (Suzuka)
23 October USA (Austin)
30 October Mexico (Mexico City)
13 November Brazil (Sao Paulo)
20 November Abu Dhabi (Yas Marina)
PIK95
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
COTA this weekend.
Temperatures are supposed to be in the high 80s on race day which coupled with the abrasive track surface means tire deg will be critical. Cars starting the race on softs may be looking at a two stopper. Anyone who makes it through Q2 on mediums will have an advantage on Sunday.
Temperatures are supposed to be in the high 80s on race day which coupled with the abrasive track surface means tire deg will be critical. Cars starting the race on softs may be looking at a two stopper. Anyone who makes it through Q2 on mediums will have an advantage on Sunday.
Only because Lewis had a time deleted. Odd session. Max aborted his qualifying runs - twice got crowded out on the track, and then just came in to set up for the longer run.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Keep it Going Max
![[icon]](/data/avatars/s/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
