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Taliban Attempt to Assassinate 14 year old girl in Pakistan (1 Viewer)

RedmondLonghorn

Footballguy
I didn't see this on here anywhere.

A spokesman for the Taliban in Pakistan’s Swat Valley took responsibility for the shooting on Tuesday of a 14-year-old activist who is an outspoken advocate of education for girls. The attack on Malala Yousafzai, who was shot in the head on her way home from school in Mingora, the region’s main city, outraged many Pakistanis, but a Taliban spokesman told a newspaper that the group would target the girl again if she survived.

Ehsanullah Ehsan, a spokesman for Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, commonly known as the Pakistani Taliban, told my colleague Declan Walsh in a telephone interview that Malala “has become a symbol of Western culture in the area” and had expressed admiration for President Obama. Speaking to Reuters, the militant acknowledged that the victim was young but insisted the attack was justified because “she was promoting Western culture in Pashtun areas,” referring to the ethnic group in northwest Pakistan and eastern Afghanistan whose conservative values the Taliban claims to defend.

Another girl, one of two others wounded in the attack, said in a television interview with Pakistan’s Express News that a man had stopped the school bus and asked which girl was Malala before opening fire.
He said the teenager's work had been an "obscenity" that needed to be stopped: "This was a new chapter of obscenity, and we have to finish this chapter."
Details from Yesterday - NY Times

More Details - UK Guardian

Girl in Critical Condition

 
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Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.

 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
:wall:
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
Third world hardline extremists are representative of the entire religion? But wait, I thought Bush destroyed the Taliban and their influence in these areas, like he promised to do after 9/11.
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
You're kind of an ####### aren't you? And yes, the question was rhetorical.
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
Third world hardline extremists are representative of the entire religion? But wait, I thought Bush destroyed the Taliban and their influence in these areas, like he promised to do after 9/11.
I won't be voting for Bush in the upcoming election.
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
You're kind of an ####### aren't you? And yes, the question was rhetorical.
How many threads a day do you think we'd have on the Taliban if we started one every time they tried to hurt someone?
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
You're kind of an ####### aren't you? And yes, the question was rhetorical.
New here?
 
The discussion I hoped to have before the troll appearance was whether this event could be a bit of a turning point in terms of the general populace in Pakistan's attitude towards the Pakistan Taliban?

In Iraq, the Sunni population/tribes, turned against Al Quaeda in Iraq eventually when the violence against ordinary Sunni Muslims just became too overwhelming to ignore. Many of those tribes were conservative/traditional and had initially supported the jihadists, at least in spirit if not in action.

I don't have much hope that the Pashtun population in Pakistan will suddenly have their "awakening" moment due to this; the Pashtuns seem to view women and female children as mere chattel, even compared to other conservative Muslims.

But this incident could potentially sway attitudes among Punjabi Paks. Many of them are conservative Muslims and they are certainly anti-American, but they aren't Pashtun tribesmen and likely as horrified by this story as we are. The other thing to consider is that this incident didn't take place in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or Baluchistan, which are definitely the hinterlands to Punjabi Pakistanis. It took place in the Swat Valley, which is uncomfortably close to Islamabad.

If ever there was a reason for mainstream Muslims to pull their heads out of the sand and forecefully condemn the actions of their "brothers" in the name of their religion, this is it. We'll see.

 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
These guys are too Islam as Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity
Maybe in terms of deviation from mainstream thought.Sadly, not so in terms of numbers.And yes, I realize radical jihadis are a pretty small minority of the global Muslim population, but the Westboro Baptist Church is like 8 people from one crazy family.
 
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Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
These guys are too Islam as Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity
Maybe in terms of deviation from mainstream thought.Sadly, not so in terms of numbers.
Oh noooes! That means Sharia law is coming to the US! Stock up on guns and ammo before it is too late. :hophead:
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
These guys are too Islam as Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity
Maybe in terms of deviation from mainstream thought.Sadly, not so in terms of numbers.
Oh noooes! That means Sharia law is coming to the US! Stock up on guns and ammo before it is too late. :hophead:
WTF are you talking about?
 
The discussion I hoped to have before the troll appearance was whether this event could be a bit of a turning point in terms of the general populace in Pakistan's attitude towards the Pakistan Taliban?In Iraq, the Sunni population/tribes, turned against Al Quaeda in Iraq eventually when the violence against ordinary Sunni Muslims just became too overwhelming to ignore. Many of those tribes were conservative/traditional and had initially supported the jihadists, at least in spirit if not in action.I don't have much hope that the Pashtun population in Pakistan will suddenly have their "awakening" moment due to this; the Pashtuns seem to view women and female children as mere chattel, even compared to other conservative Muslims.But this incident could potentially sway attitudes among Punjabi Paks. Many of them are conservative Muslims and they are certainly anti-American, but they aren't Pashtun tribesmen and likely as horrified by this story as we are. The other thing to consider is that this incident didn't take place in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or Baluchistan, which are definitely the hinterlands to Punjabi Pakistanis. It took place in the Swat Valley, which is uncomfortably close to Islamabad.If ever there was a reason for mainstream Muslims to pull their heads out of the sand and forecefully condemn the actions of their "brothers" in the name of their religion, this is it. We'll see.
It will have ZERO effect. Anyone who opens their mouth gets what she got. Did you hear what the Taliban rep said about this? He said this should be a lesson. Do you think that is going to energize people or frighten them?
 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.

 
The discussion I hoped to have before the troll appearance was whether this event could be a bit of a turning point in terms of the general populace in Pakistan's attitude towards the Pakistan Taliban?In Iraq, the Sunni population/tribes, turned against Al Quaeda in Iraq eventually when the violence against ordinary Sunni Muslims just became too overwhelming to ignore. Many of those tribes were conservative/traditional and had initially supported the jihadists, at least in spirit if not in action.I don't have much hope that the Pashtun population in Pakistan will suddenly have their "awakening" moment due to this; the Pashtuns seem to view women and female children as mere chattel, even compared to other conservative Muslims.But this incident could potentially sway attitudes among Punjabi Paks. Many of them are conservative Muslims and they are certainly anti-American, but they aren't Pashtun tribesmen and likely as horrified by this story as we are. The other thing to consider is that this incident didn't take place in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or Baluchistan, which are definitely the hinterlands to Punjabi Pakistanis. It took place in the Swat Valley, which is uncomfortably close to Islamabad.If ever there was a reason for mainstream Muslims to pull their heads out of the sand and forecefully condemn the actions of their "brothers" in the name of their religion, this is it. We'll see.
It will have ZERO effect. Anyone who opens their mouth gets what she got. Did you hear what the Taliban rep said about this? He said this should be a lesson. Do you think that is going to energize people or frighten them?
Terrorizing the populace eventually backfired in Iraq.And there are different dynamics in Pakistan. While the vast majority of Pakistanis are Muslim and anti-Western, the the Punjabi population centers aren't lawless areas where violence is rampant (relatively speaking). What they tolerate in the Tribal Areas happening to Pashtuns or Baluchis, they won't necessarily tolerate in their own communities. And while the Swat Valley is mostly Pashtun, it is physically very close to them. Which is why the Pakistani military actually tried to clear out the Swat in the past, while doing next to nothing about things in the FATA and Baluchistan.
 
Clue #729 that maybe you're part of an inept and ridiculous organization; you ATTEMPT to assassinate a 14 year old girl. :bag:

 
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I'm not sure to what degree I trust Western media reports of events in this region of the world, but it does sound like the Taliban is catching a lot of grief for this. Even in rural Pakistan, shooting a 14 year old girl is pretty low.

 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.

 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
Like how catholics around the world strong and systematically condemn the raping of little boys?
 
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I'm not sure to what degree I trust Western media reports of events in this region of the world, but it does sound like the Taliban is catching a lot of grief for this. Even in rural Pakistan, shooting a 14 year old girl is pretty low.
I don't understand what they were trying to achieve by killing this little girl.
 
Wait. I thought Obama had all the Muslim's loving America, like he promised he would do as part of his hope and change campaign.
Please don't thread #### here. There are a million other threads where you can criticize Obama.
A million? I doubt it. And, using your logic, there are a million threads where we've discussed incidents just like this one over the years. So, why bring up yet another one that shows the "religion of peace" isn't quite so peaceful after all?
Third world hardline extremists are representative of the entire religion? But wait, I thought Bush destroyed the Taliban and their influence in these areas, like he promised to do after 9/11.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
Like how catholics around the world strong and systematically condemn the raping of little boys?
:thumbup: what a P.O.S. you must really be

 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
Like how catholics around the world strong and systematically condemn the raping of little boys?
:thumbup: what a P.O.S. you must really be
He has a point though, no?
 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
which Muslims would you like to see condemn this attack?
 
I really think that sometimes we fail to see how people think and act from within a situation because from the outside it looks so awful.

Most of the time, revolutions and revolts against awful things that religions/nations did were not caused because the leaders did atrocities against other people. Rather, they happened because of atrocities/actions committed against the people who revolted.

The American Revolution didn't happen because the British abused the Native Americans, or because Britain was doing bad things in Australia or India. The American Revolution happened because they were imposing harsh and debilitating taxes on the people who ended up revolting.

The Reformation didn't happen because people hated the Catholic Church and wanted out. It was started by people (including Martin Luther) who wanted to fix some issues they saw and were attacked (literally by armies) to they point that they raised up their own armies and fought back and made their own way.

It doesn't matter what we talk about, people NEVER stood up for the rights of other people to the point that we're asking Muslims outside of the jihadists to stand up. Its just not in us. Non-Muslims do it because they aren't on any level violating basic tenets of their faith in doing so. But for a Muslim to do it when it violates their religion? That's a tall order and one that history shows us isn't likely to happen. As long as they aren't feeling like they are being oppressed (or aren't oppressed to the point of breaking), these people will never revolt in and of themselves.

So to expect Muslims in Iran or Iraq or Palestine or anywhere to speak out against their own religion because a Muslim in Pakistan did something in the name of their religion just is not likely to happen anymore than there weren't many who spoke up against the Crusades (until it hurt them) or the Inquisition (until it hurt them) or British Colonization (until it hurt them) or the Nazis (until it hurt them). People don't speak out against forces they believed in with all of themselves until it begins hurting them personally.

Kind of the whole "they came for _________, but I wasn't one of them so I was silent" thing. It sounds great in theory that we all stand up for eachother's rights, but I don't think it happens as much as we like to think it does. And they are NOT going to stand up against their own religion in any meaningful way, especially since the threat of this type or response is always around the corner in the places they live.

 
I really think that sometimes we fail to see how people think and act from within a situation because from the outside it looks so awful.Most of the time, revolutions and revolts against awful things that religions/nations did were not caused because the leaders did atrocities against other people. Rather, they happened because of atrocities/actions committed against the people who revolted.The American Revolution didn't happen because the British abused the Native Americans, or because Britain was doing bad things in Australia or India. The American Revolution happened because they were imposing harsh and debilitating taxes on the people who ended up revolting.The Reformation didn't happen because people hated the Catholic Church and wanted out. It was started by people (including Martin Luther) who wanted to fix some issues they saw and were attacked (literally by armies) to they point that they raised up their own armies and fought back and made their own way.It doesn't matter what we talk about, people NEVER stood up for the rights of other people to the point that we're asking Muslims outside of the jihadists to stand up. Its just not in us. Non-Muslims do it because they aren't on any level violating basic tenets of their faith in doing so. But for a Muslim to do it when it violates their religion? That's a tall order and one that history shows us isn't likely to happen. As long as they aren't feeling like they are being oppressed (or aren't oppressed to the point of breaking), these people will never revolt in and of themselves.So to expect Muslims in Iran or Iraq or Palestine or anywhere to speak out against their own religion because a Muslim in Pakistan did something in the name of their religion just is not likely to happen anymore than there weren't many who spoke up against the Crusades (until it hurt them) or the Inquisition (until it hurt them) or British Colonization (until it hurt them) or the Nazis (until it hurt them). People don't speak out against forces they believed in with all of themselves until it begins hurting them personally.Kind of the whole "they came for _________, but I wasn't one of them so I was silent" thing. It sounds great in theory that we all stand up for eachother's rights, but I don't think it happens as much as we like to think it does. And they are NOT going to stand up against their own religion in any meaningful way, especially since the threat of this type or response is always around the corner in the places they live.
:confused: The attack against Malala Yousufzai was widely condemned.
 
I really think that sometimes we fail to see how people think and act from within a situation because from the outside it looks so awful.Most of the time, revolutions and revolts against awful things that religions/nations did were not caused because the leaders did atrocities against other people. Rather, they happened because of atrocities/actions committed against the people who revolted.The American Revolution didn't happen because the British abused the Native Americans, or because Britain was doing bad things in Australia or India. The American Revolution happened because they were imposing harsh and debilitating taxes on the people who ended up revolting.The Reformation didn't happen because people hated the Catholic Church and wanted out. It was started by people (including Martin Luther) who wanted to fix some issues they saw and were attacked (literally by armies) to they point that they raised up their own armies and fought back and made their own way.It doesn't matter what we talk about, people NEVER stood up for the rights of other people to the point that we're asking Muslims outside of the jihadists to stand up. Its just not in us. Non-Muslims do it because they aren't on any level violating basic tenets of their faith in doing so. But for a Muslim to do it when it violates their religion? That's a tall order and one that history shows us isn't likely to happen. As long as they aren't feeling like they are being oppressed (or aren't oppressed to the point of breaking), these people will never revolt in and of themselves.So to expect Muslims in Iran or Iraq or Palestine or anywhere to speak out against their own religion because a Muslim in Pakistan did something in the name of their religion just is not likely to happen anymore than there weren't many who spoke up against the Crusades (until it hurt them) or the Inquisition (until it hurt them) or British Colonization (until it hurt them) or the Nazis (until it hurt them). People don't speak out against forces they believed in with all of themselves until it begins hurting them personally.Kind of the whole "they came for _________, but I wasn't one of them so I was silent" thing. It sounds great in theory that we all stand up for eachother's rights, but I don't think it happens as much as we like to think it does. And they are NOT going to stand up against their own religion in any meaningful way, especially since the threat of this type or response is always around the corner in the places they live.
:confused: The attack against Malala Yousufzai was widely condemned.
But its only going to be condemned in any meaningful ways in places its safe.There aren't going to be riots in Pakistan or Iran or Palestine or Egypt.That was my point. The whole culture isn't going to change because of something like this, because they can convince themselves in most places that they're ok. Their leaders aren't that bad (whether they really are or not).
 
I really think that sometimes we fail to see how people think and act from within a situation because from the outside it looks so awful.Most of the time, revolutions and revolts against awful things that religions/nations did were not caused because the leaders did atrocities against other people. Rather, they happened because of atrocities/actions committed against the people who revolted.The American Revolution didn't happen because the British abused the Native Americans, or because Britain was doing bad things in Australia or India. The American Revolution happened because they were imposing harsh and debilitating taxes on the people who ended up revolting.The Reformation didn't happen because people hated the Catholic Church and wanted out. It was started by people (including Martin Luther) who wanted to fix some issues they saw and were attacked (literally by armies) to they point that they raised up their own armies and fought back and made their own way.It doesn't matter what we talk about, people NEVER stood up for the rights of other people to the point that we're asking Muslims outside of the jihadists to stand up. Its just not in us. Non-Muslims do it because they aren't on any level violating basic tenets of their faith in doing so. But for a Muslim to do it when it violates their religion? That's a tall order and one that history shows us isn't likely to happen. As long as they aren't feeling like they are being oppressed (or aren't oppressed to the point of breaking), these people will never revolt in and of themselves.So to expect Muslims in Iran or Iraq or Palestine or anywhere to speak out against their own religion because a Muslim in Pakistan did something in the name of their religion just is not likely to happen anymore than there weren't many who spoke up against the Crusades (until it hurt them) or the Inquisition (until it hurt them) or British Colonization (until it hurt them) or the Nazis (until it hurt them). People don't speak out against forces they believed in with all of themselves until it begins hurting them personally.Kind of the whole "they came for _________, but I wasn't one of them so I was silent" thing. It sounds great in theory that we all stand up for eachother's rights, but I don't think it happens as much as we like to think it does. And they are NOT going to stand up against their own religion in any meaningful way, especially since the threat of this type or response is always around the corner in the places they live.
:confused: The attack against Malala Yousufzai was widely condemned.
But its only going to be condemned in any meaningful ways in places its safe.There aren't going to be riots in Pakistan or Iran or Palestine or Egypt.That was my point. The whole culture isn't going to change because of something like this, because they can convince themselves in most places that they're ok. Their leaders aren't that bad (whether they really are or not).
you want riots in Egypt and Pakistan?
 
I really think that sometimes we fail to see how people think and act from within a situation because from the outside it looks so awful.Most of the time, revolutions and revolts against awful things that religions/nations did were not caused because the leaders did atrocities against other people. Rather, they happened because of atrocities/actions committed against the people who revolted.The American Revolution didn't happen because the British abused the Native Americans, or because Britain was doing bad things in Australia or India. The American Revolution happened because they were imposing harsh and debilitating taxes on the people who ended up revolting.The Reformation didn't happen because people hated the Catholic Church and wanted out. It was started by people (including Martin Luther) who wanted to fix some issues they saw and were attacked (literally by armies) to they point that they raised up their own armies and fought back and made their own way.It doesn't matter what we talk about, people NEVER stood up for the rights of other people to the point that we're asking Muslims outside of the jihadists to stand up. Its just not in us. Non-Muslims do it because they aren't on any level violating basic tenets of their faith in doing so. But for a Muslim to do it when it violates their religion? That's a tall order and one that history shows us isn't likely to happen. As long as they aren't feeling like they are being oppressed (or aren't oppressed to the point of breaking), these people will never revolt in and of themselves.So to expect Muslims in Iran or Iraq or Palestine or anywhere to speak out against their own religion because a Muslim in Pakistan did something in the name of their religion just is not likely to happen anymore than there weren't many who spoke up against the Crusades (until it hurt them) or the Inquisition (until it hurt them) or British Colonization (until it hurt them) or the Nazis (until it hurt them). People don't speak out against forces they believed in with all of themselves until it begins hurting them personally.Kind of the whole "they came for _________, but I wasn't one of them so I was silent" thing. It sounds great in theory that we all stand up for eachother's rights, but I don't think it happens as much as we like to think it does. And they are NOT going to stand up against their own religion in any meaningful way, especially since the threat of this type or response is always around the corner in the places they live.
:confused: The attack against Malala Yousufzai was widely condemned.
But its only going to be condemned in any meaningful ways in places its safe.There aren't going to be riots in Pakistan or Iran or Palestine or Egypt.That was my point. The whole culture isn't going to change because of something like this, because they can convince themselves in most places that they're ok. Their leaders aren't that bad (whether they really are or not).
you want riots in Egypt and Pakistan?
This:
The discussion I hoped to have before the troll appearance was whether this event could be a bit of a turning point in terms of the general populace in Pakistan's attitude towards the Pakistan Taliban?In Iraq, the Sunni population/tribes, turned against Al Quaeda in Iraq eventually when the violence against ordinary Sunni Muslims just became too overwhelming to ignore. Many of those tribes were conservative/traditional and had initially supported the jihadists, at least in spirit if not in action.I don't have much hope that the Pashtun population in Pakistan will suddenly have their "awakening" moment due to this; the Pashtuns seem to view women and female children as mere chattel, even compared to other conservative Muslims.But this incident could potentially sway attitudes among Punjabi Paks. Many of them are conservative Muslims and they are certainly anti-American, but they aren't Pashtun tribesmen and likely as horrified by this story as we are. The other thing to consider is that this incident didn't take place in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or Baluchistan, which are definitely the hinterlands to Punjabi Pakistanis. It took place in the Swat Valley, which is uncomfortably close to Islamabad.If ever there was a reason for mainstream Muslims to pull their heads out of the sand and forecefully condemn the actions of their "brothers" in the name of their religion, this is it. We'll see.
Will not happen. At least not to any meaningful degree.
 
I really think that sometimes we fail to see how people think and act from within a situation because from the outside it looks so awful.Most of the time, revolutions and revolts against awful things that religions/nations did were not caused because the leaders did atrocities against other people. Rather, they happened because of atrocities/actions committed against the people who revolted.The American Revolution didn't happen because the British abused the Native Americans, or because Britain was doing bad things in Australia or India. The American Revolution happened because they were imposing harsh and debilitating taxes on the people who ended up revolting.The Reformation didn't happen because people hated the Catholic Church and wanted out. It was started by people (including Martin Luther) who wanted to fix some issues they saw and were attacked (literally by armies) to they point that they raised up their own armies and fought back and made their own way.It doesn't matter what we talk about, people NEVER stood up for the rights of other people to the point that we're asking Muslims outside of the jihadists to stand up. Its just not in us. Non-Muslims do it because they aren't on any level violating basic tenets of their faith in doing so. But for a Muslim to do it when it violates their religion? That's a tall order and one that history shows us isn't likely to happen. As long as they aren't feeling like they are being oppressed (or aren't oppressed to the point of breaking), these people will never revolt in and of themselves.So to expect Muslims in Iran or Iraq or Palestine or anywhere to speak out against their own religion because a Muslim in Pakistan did something in the name of their religion just is not likely to happen anymore than there weren't many who spoke up against the Crusades (until it hurt them) or the Inquisition (until it hurt them) or British Colonization (until it hurt them) or the Nazis (until it hurt them). People don't speak out against forces they believed in with all of themselves until it begins hurting them personally.Kind of the whole "they came for _________, but I wasn't one of them so I was silent" thing. It sounds great in theory that we all stand up for eachother's rights, but I don't think it happens as much as we like to think it does. And they are NOT going to stand up against their own religion in any meaningful way, especially since the threat of this type or response is always around the corner in the places they live.
:confused: The attack against Malala Yousufzai was widely condemned.
But its only going to be condemned in any meaningful ways in places its safe.There aren't going to be riots in Pakistan or Iran or Palestine or Egypt.That was my point. The whole culture isn't going to change because of something like this, because they can convince themselves in most places that they're ok. Their leaders aren't that bad (whether they really are or not).
you want riots in Egypt and Pakistan?
This:
The discussion I hoped to have before the troll appearance was whether this event could be a bit of a turning point in terms of the general populace in Pakistan's attitude towards the Pakistan Taliban?In Iraq, the Sunni population/tribes, turned against Al Quaeda in Iraq eventually when the violence against ordinary Sunni Muslims just became too overwhelming to ignore. Many of those tribes were conservative/traditional and had initially supported the jihadists, at least in spirit if not in action.I don't have much hope that the Pashtun population in Pakistan will suddenly have their "awakening" moment due to this; the Pashtuns seem to view women and female children as mere chattel, even compared to other conservative Muslims.But this incident could potentially sway attitudes among Punjabi Paks. Many of them are conservative Muslims and they are certainly anti-American, but they aren't Pashtun tribesmen and likely as horrified by this story as we are. The other thing to consider is that this incident didn't take place in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or Baluchistan, which are definitely the hinterlands to Punjabi Pakistanis. It took place in the Swat Valley, which is uncomfortably close to Islamabad.If ever there was a reason for mainstream Muslims to pull their heads out of the sand and forecefully condemn the actions of their "brothers" in the name of their religion, this is it. We'll see.
Will not happen. At least not to any meaningful degree.
I am really confused what you are trying to say. Pretty much every Pakistani condemned the attack. It was pretty universal.
 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
Like how catholics around the world strong and systematically condemn the raping of little boys?
:thumbup: what a P.O.S. you must really be
:hifive:
 
The discussion I hoped to have before the troll appearance was whether this event could be a bit of a turning point in terms of the general populace in Pakistan's attitude towards the Pakistan Taliban?

In Iraq, the Sunni population/tribes, turned against Al Quaeda in Iraq eventually when the violence against ordinary Sunni Muslims just became too overwhelming to ignore. Many of those tribes were conservative/traditional and had initially supported the jihadists, at least in spirit if not in action.

I don't have much hope that the Pashtun population in Pakistan will suddenly have their "awakening" moment due to this; the Pashtuns seem to view women and female children as mere chattel, even compared to other conservative Muslims.

But this incident could potentially sway attitudes among Punjabi Paks. Many of them are conservative Muslims and they are certainly anti-American, but they aren't Pashtun tribesmen and likely as horrified by this story as we are. The other thing to consider is that this incident didn't take place in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or Baluchistan, which are definitely the hinterlands to Punjabi Pakistanis. It took place in the Swat Valley, which is uncomfortably close to Islamabad.

If ever there was a reason for mainstream Muslims to pull their heads out of the sand and forecefully condemn the actions of their "brothers" in the name of their religion, this is it. We'll see.
Islam is taking the brunt of the blame for this, but they were behaving like this long before Islam was invented.
 
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
Like how catholics around the world strong and systematically condemn the raping of little boys?
:thumbup: what a P.O.S. you must really be
I have nothing to add to this except to say well done HT.
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
'HellToupee said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'RedmondLonghorn said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
This girl was a Muslim who was speaking out for her people. From her CNN interview she seemed very intelligent and forward thinking. These crazy organizations must be stopped. Muslims as a whole, however, should not be lumped into these dogmatic lunatics.
I only saw one troll doing that here.I'm certainly not.

What Muslims as a whole are pretty guilty of is looking the other way and failing to strongly and systematically condemn things like this.
Like how catholics around the world strong and systematically condemn the raping of little boys?
:thumbup: what a P.O.S. you must really be
I have nothing to add to this except to say well done HT.
Well done by completely missing the point? Yes, very well done by both of you.
 

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