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True the Seahawks are not exactly --

I don't even know which team now qualifies as 'loaded with offensive talent'... most teams have major injuries now, Roddy/Julio, GB WRs, Saints, etc. etc.

-- the Bears? lol who would've known... but nonetheless, Wilson plays behind a vastly superior o-line, and his receiving options are much deeper than Pryor's if not obviously superior at the top. But besides pointing to one key player (soon to be Harvin), there are major differences between the two organizations. EVERYTHING is probably superior in Seattle.. head coach, positional coaches, management, etc. Point being Wilson is just straight up in a better situation.

I agree but I also think he is a vastly superior quarterback. Watched them both in college and thus far in the NFL and to me it's not even close.

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I've compiled a bunch of really good resources over the years and I'm essentially just good at absorbing info and parroting it. It's nothing special but thanks. 

Disagree completely.  You seem very closed minded to the possibility that a guy who is 6'4, 220, runs in the 4.3s, and seems to be making a huge progression in a transformation to WR, AND represents a

@SameSongNDance Are you a fantasy analyst? You seem to have solid insights in every thread I've looked at. Thanks for the contributions.

Well, I tend to agree that "Wilson is better than Pryor".... but put Pryor on Seattle (with a year and a half starting) and Wilson in Oakland (with 7 game starting) and then let's see who looks like the better QB.

I'd say Wilson because I believe he is the superior talent. Plus it's not like the Seahawks have been blessed with standout offensive talent around Wilson the last two seasons other than Lynch.

From a fantasy perspective, I'm loving what I'm seeing from Pryor. Don't get me wrong. I think he has become a strong QB2 and I think he has quality upside the rest of the way. Games like this past Sunday do give me reason for some pause, however, because it shows how much work he still needs to do as a passer. But strictly in terms of fantasy I've bought in. If he goes off the rest of the way like Wilson did last year that would be sensational. :)

Pittsburgh has been a tough matchup for QBs down the line, also. They've allowed 5 passing TDs all year.

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It's unfair to compare Pryor to Wilson or any other dual threat QB without acknowledging that Pryor is a better runner than all of them, except for a prime Vick. The difference though between prime Vick and Pryor is that TP2 is 6'6'' 250. Pryor is a flat out beast with the ball as a rusher.

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+Cam. Pryor might be faster but I still think Cam is a more valuable runner, because of his goal line work.

I think Pryor is actually about an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than Cam. 6'4'' 235 vs. 6'5'' 245. Although a google search does say Pryor is 6'6'', i dont think thats true.

Edited by karmarooster
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+Cam. Pryor might be faster but I still think Cam is a more valuable runner, because of his goal line work.

I think Pryor is actually about an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than Cam. 6'4'' 235 vs. 6'5'' 245. Although a google search does say Pryor is 6'6'', i dont think thats true.

You are correct about Pryor's size, not that's it's a huge difference. And Cam really is the only comp for Pryor. Cam is the better (more polished) passer, while TP2 is the more explosive runner. TP2 would be every bit as good as Cam at the GL if his passing mechanics were cleaner, resulting in extended drives and more GL opps. Both suffer from sub-par receivers, though I would argue the Panthers crew is better, especially Smiffy during Cam's first couple years. The other factor too, is offensive creativity. Cam did his best work with Chudzinksi and neither Olsen in Oakland, nor Shula in Carolina are as creative with these two dual threat studs.

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I'd say Wilson because I believe he is the superior talent. Plus it's not like the Seahawks have been blessed with standout offensive talent around Wilson the last two seasons other than Lynch.

Other than Lynch, two first and a second rounder on the offensive line and the best defense in the league. Other than that I absolutely agree.

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Any thoughts on his value in 2QB or Superflex dynasty leagues? More specifically, what is his job security going forward? I assume regardless of how he looks it would be less than Geno, EJ Manuel, and Locker and the fact that there's 5 startable QBs coming into the league affects him. I know OAK has said good things, but I'm not sure how much to believe.

I put him above all three of those QBs. He appears to be a better passer than both Geno and Locker and a better runner than all of them. I don't know why anyone would think he has less job security then them either.

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I'd say Wilson because I believe he is the superior talent. Plus it's not like the Seahawks have been blessed with standout offensive talent around Wilson the last two seasons other than Lynch.

Other than Lynch, two first and a second rounder on the offensive line and the best defense in the league. Other than that I absolutely agree.

I was referring to the skill positions. Lynch is the only high-end talent on the team in my opinion other than Harvin, who hasn't played yet. I do like both Turbin and Michael but both are backups. The point is, Wilson isn't surrounded by elite options in the passing game. I wouldn't consider that an outlandish statement to make and would assume most, if not everyone, would agree with it.

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I'd say Wilson because I believe he is the superior talent. Plus it's not like the Seahawks have been blessed with standout offensive talent around Wilson the last two seasons other than Lynch.

Other than Lynch, two first and a second rounder on the offensive line and the best defense in the league. Other than that I absolutely agree.

I was referring to the skill positions. Lynch is the only high-end talent on the team in my opinion other than Harvin, who hasn't played yet. I do like both Turbin and Michael but both are backups. The point is, Wilson isn't surrounded by elite options in the passing game. I wouldn't consider that an outlandish statement to make and would assume most, if not everyone, would agree with it.

Sure I can get behind that but you have to agree that having the superior supporting cast across the whole team is a huge benefit for Wilson. If he was running for his life on a regular basis like Pryor his poise and passing stats would suffer.

I think on pretty much no physical level does Wilson have more talent than Pryor but what Wilson has is football smarts, poise and leadership. He has plenty of physical skill but nothing approaching Pryor's measurables. However he might have more of those nonphysical attributes than any QB not named Drew Brees and it's those things, not physical talent that make guys like Wilson & Brees what they are today. It is unlikely that Pryor will ever match up with guys like Brees, Wilson & Brady but that does not preclude him from being a top notch QB in the NFL.

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I agree Wilson is on a superior team. However, I also believe he is the far superior QB. Put Wilson on the Raiders and I think he performs better than Pryor because he's a better QB. I watched both guys play in college and having watched both so far in the NFL I don't think there's any question who the superior QB is. It's clearly Wilson in my opinion. I don't consider that a slight to Pryor because he's capable of improving and also I think Wilson is already one of the top QBs in the game so there are a lot of guys in the league at the position who I believe are lesser talents.

The good news with Pryor is that he is capable of improving. I think he's already made some impressive strides this season. If he can take another jump either this season or next year we could really be looking at an impressive young player for the future.

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Holy #### this guy sucks. Drop back, no one wide open, run around like an idiot. Forget trying to throw real NFL passes. Today he made a claim on Freemans' suckage from the other night.

Edited by lod01
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I haven't been able to watch him play since the SD game. Can anybody give some insight as to what changed where he now has thrown multiple INTs the past 3 weeks. From the games I saw, he was going through his reads fairly well and had good touch on the ball. Is he making bad throws (across the field, etc..). Is it the playcalling getting to predictable? Looking for some actual insight here, not just "TP sucks"

Thanks

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I know the offensive line isn't helping him out much but he really seems indecisive when going through his progressions. It seems that even if the first of second read is actually open he does not recognize it in time. The upside is that he doesn't just chuck it up for grabs in that situation but the down side is it turns too many plays into scramble drills. It really looks like a lot of sandlot football going on out there.

I hope he can improve his ability to read defenses because his physical tools are incredible. I am not sure how many QBs have as much raw physical ability as he does.

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I haven't been able to watch him play since the SD game. Can anybody give some insight as to what changed where he now has thrown multiple INTs the past 3 weeks. From the games I saw, he was going through his reads fairly well and had good touch on the ball. Is he making bad throws (across the field, etc..). Is it the playcalling getting to predictable? Looking for some actual insight here, not just "TP sucks"

Thanks

Not sure either INT was really his fault yesterday.

I would need to go back and look at the plays again but IIRC the first pick looked like a catchable ball tipped by the WR. The second one bounced off Moore and the defender made an incredible diving play on the ball. I don't think the second one was a good throw though.

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Played him cause of peytons bye week. Wasn't expecting much but one td would have been nice. I think hes regressed since earlier in the season as a passer. Pretty disappointed. Dropping this week....

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That's some hard hitting, well considered, fact based football analysis right there.

Did you watch that ####? The clown would drop back, look at the 1st read and then run around, sometimes turning his back to the receivers. I watched the whole game because Riley Copper was going off all over the Raiders. If a guy wasn't running wide open in his limited view of the field, there was no passing.

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I know the offensive line isn't helping him out much but he really seems indecisive when going through his progressions. It seems that even if the first of second read is actually open he does not recognize it in time. The upside is that he doesn't just chuck it up for grabs in that situation but the down side is it turns too many plays into scramble drills. It really looks like a lot of sandlot football going on out there.

I hope he can improve his ability to read defenses because his physical tools are incredible. I am not sure how many QBs have as much raw physical ability as he does.

This is your problem when you have a reactor at QB. he can't pull the trigger. Real NFL QBs throw the ball in tight coverage accurately where the WR can make the play or it's incomplete. This guy has none of that skill. He waits to see an open WR.

Right now he's a combo of Vick/Vinc Yung. It won't end well for him.

Edited by lod01
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That's some hard hitting, well considered, fact based football analysis right there.

Did you watch that ####? The clown would drop back, look at the 1st read and then run around, sometimes turning his back to the receivers. I watched the whole game because Riley Copper was going off all over the Raiders. If a guy wasn't running wide open in his limited view of the field, there was no passing.

I will give RW credit here, whoever wrote the blurb said Pryor ran when he should have passed, passed when he should have run. Geez, what an opportunity passed.

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I know the offensive line isn't helping him out much but he really seems indecisive when going through his progressions. It seems that even if the first of second read is actually open he does not recognize it in time. The upside is that he doesn't just chuck it up for grabs in that situation but the down side is it turns too many plays into scramble drills. It really looks like a lot of sandlot football going on out there.

I hope he can improve his ability to read defenses because his physical tools are incredible. I am not sure how many QBs have as much raw physical ability as he does.

This is your problem when you have a reactor at QB. he can't pull the trigger. Real NFL QBs throw the ball in tight coverage accurately where the WR can make the play or it's incomplete. This guy has none of that skill. He waits to see an open WR.

That's typical of many young QBs, if not most of them. Whether they can advance beyond that will determine their fate. I wouldn't be down on Pryor for that. It's the truly special QBs who can master that quickly at the pro level. That Pryor hasn't mastered it yet doesn't tell us anything really than he's a typical young QB in that regard.

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Hate to say it from a FF POV he reminds me of Tebow: nice points running, should get a TD, the occasional big play (maybe the TD) to Moore - 15-19 points assured.

From a true football POV, this is an example of a franchise that can be better on the field with a player but can only get so far. I am sure they are limited in what passes they can call, gameplan, etc. The coaches must be wanting something more.

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I watched a good bit of yesterday's game and he seemed very tentative to me. Even with his runs which you would expect would be more instinctual, he showed hesitation instead of running hard to a spot. One long run in particular seemed like it could have a TD but he curled it off at the end instead of running toward the end zone. As a passer he looks lost out there, and his o-line is abysmal. I would have more faith in his long-term prospects if he wasn't in Oakland.

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Hate to say it from a FF POV he reminds me of Tebow: nice points running, should get a TD, the occasional big play (maybe the TD) to Moore - 15-19 points assured.

From a true football POV, this is an example of a franchise that can be better on the field with a player but can only get so far. I am sure they are limited in what passes they can call, gameplan, etc. The coaches must be wanting something more.

This is the key part of your statement. This team is a long term failure if they don't move to McGloin (or someone). Their only chance would be to build a dominate defense and how many times has that happened throughout the years. Now with the player safety rules, it is even harder to field a dominant D.

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I watched a good bit of yesterday's game and he seemed very tentative to me. Even with his runs which you would expect would be more instinctual, he showed hesitation instead of running hard to a spot. One long run in particular seemed like it could have a TD but he curled it off at the end instead of running toward the end zone. As a passer he looks lost out there, and his o-line is abysmal. I would have more faith in his long-term prospects if he wasn't in Oakland.

It's pretty hard to pass block when you have no clue where your QB is going to be. Always has been. There were plenty of times he could have hit a WR but wouldn't throw it.

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Hate to say it from a FF POV he reminds me of Tebow: nice points running, should get a TD, the occasional big play (maybe the TD) to Moore - 15-19 points assured.

I think his passing upside is higher than Tebow's but considering Tebow was a QB1 much of the time as a starter I think all Pryor owners would be thrilled to get that type of production.

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I am still not sold on him as an NFL QB but from a fantasy perspective it wouldn't take much improvement to turn him into gold.

Not many QBs can put up 288 passing and 94 rushing. Get him to 1 TD a week (passing or rushing) and he is a quality fantasy starter. He has already been a solid starter for most of the year.

Just his upside alone makes him worth starting in fantasy leagues, particularly super-flex or 2QB leagues.

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That's some hard hitting, well considered, fact based football analysis right there.

Did you watch that ####? The clown would drop back, look at the 1st read and then run around, sometimes turning his back to the receivers. I watched the whole game because Riley Copper was going off all over the Raiders. If a guy wasn't running wide open in his limited view of the field, there was no passing.

Your "analysis" is moronic.

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That's some hard hitting, well considered, fact based football analysis right there.

Did you watch that ####? The clown would drop back, look at the 1st read and then run around, sometimes turning his back to the receivers. I watched the whole game because Riley Copper was going off all over the Raiders. If a guy wasn't running wide open in his limited view of the field, there was no passing.

Your "analysis" is moronic.

I remember the same quotes used in my Vince Young and Tim Tebow analysis. Things will go the same for you in this thread.

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I am still not sold on him as an NFL QB but from a fantasy perspective it wouldn't take much improvement to turn him into gold.

Not many QBs can put up 288 passing and 94 rushing. Get him to 1 TD a week (passing or rushing) and he is a quality fantasy starter. He has already been a solid starter for most of the year.

Just his upside alone makes him worth starting in fantasy leagues, particularly super-flex or 2QB leagues.

In most leagues' scoring systems where you get twice as many points for rushing yards as passing yards, his day yesterday was the equivalent of about 500 passing yards. He has no TE, was lined up next to Rashad Jennings most of the day, and Denarius Moore and Rod Streater are hardly scary.

This kid is going to grow into a monster NFL QB. He is barely scratching the surface and the pace at which he is learning and improving is very impressive. When his "bad day" is equivalent to 500 passing yards, I'll take it!

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That's some hard hitting, well considered, fact based football analysis right there.

Did you watch that ####? The clown would drop back, look at the 1st read and then run around, sometimes turning his back to the receivers. I watched the whole game because Riley Copper was going off all over the Raiders. If a guy wasn't running wide open in his limited view of the field, there was no passing.

Your "analysis" is moronic.

I remember the same quotes used in my Vince Young and Tim Tebow analysis. Things will go the same for you in this thread.

Apples and oranges. And worry not...things go great for me in EVERY thread. It is fantasy football!

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I am still not sold on him as an NFL QB but from a fantasy perspective it wouldn't take much improvement to turn him into gold.

Not many QBs can put up 288 passing and 94 rushing. Get him to 1 TD a week (passing or rushing) and he is a quality fantasy starter. He has already been a solid starter for most of the year.

Just his upside alone makes him worth starting in fantasy leagues, particularly super-flex or 2QB leagues.

In most leagues' scoring systems where you get twice as many points for rushing yards as passing yards, his day yesterday was the equivalent of about 500 passing yards. He has no TE, was lined up next to Rashad Jennings most of the day, and Denarius Moore and Rod Streater are hardly scary.

This kid is going to grow into a monster NFL QB. He is barely scratching the surface and the pace at which he is learning and improving is very impressive. When his "bad day" is equivalent to 500 passing yards, I'll take it!

:lmao:

You are the equivalent of The Hairy Scotsman'. This will be entertaining as you talk up his running ability until he is finally benched for good due to incompetence. Then you will blame the coaching staff. Seen it before. You have already used excuse #1 which of course is the WRs.

Oh yeah, I also forgot about David Carr. Throw him in with this POS, Young and Tebow.

You will see how good this receiving crew (except TE) is if they can get a real QB.

Edited by lod01
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I don't know how good Pryor is going to be but from a fantasy perspective I don't know how anyone can complain too much about him right now. Sure it would've been nice if he passed for more yards against Pittsburgh or gotten at least one TD against the Eagles but the bottom line fantasy numbers have been good.

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That's some hard hitting, well considered, fact based football analysis right there.

Did you watch that ####? The clown would drop back, look at the 1st read and then run around, sometimes turning his back to the receivers. I watched the whole game because Riley Copper was going off all over the Raiders. If a guy wasn't running wide open in his limited view of the field, there was no passing.

Your "analysis" is moronic.

I remember the same quotes used in my Vince Young and Tim Tebow analysis. Things will go the same for you in this thread.

Tim Tebow was fantasy gold.

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I am still not sold on him as an NFL QB but from a fantasy perspective it wouldn't take much improvement to turn him into gold.

Not many QBs can put up 288 passing and 94 rushing. Get him to 1 TD a week (passing or rushing) and he is a quality fantasy starter. He has already been a solid starter for most of the year.

Just his upside alone makes him worth starting in fantasy leagues, particularly super-flex or 2QB leagues.

In most leagues' scoring systems where you get twice as many points for rushing yards as passing yards, his day yesterday was the equivalent of about 500 passing yards. He has no TE, was lined up next to Rashad Jennings most of the day, and Denarius Moore and Rod Streater are hardly scary.

This kid is going to grow into a monster NFL QB. He is barely scratching the surface and the pace at which he is learning and improving is very impressive. When his "bad day" is equivalent to 500 passing yards, I'll take it!

I agree that his physical tools are among the top in the league but that is hardly any guarantee that he will be given a long enough opportunity to learn how to read NFL defenses and be decisive in his progressions. I think with time he can certainly learn to do both at a high level but he really never had to at any level so it is going to take time and as we all know NFL stands for Not For Long.

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Honestly, he looks to me like a young QB who's only started 7 games. He looks like a QB who has insane natural ability and relies on that by instinct when in trouble. He looks like a QB who doesn't have any great weapons and an "OK" O-Line.

He looks like most young QBs, except when other young QBs panic they can't scramble around like he can. Remember, he scored a long TD the other week and it's still ingrained in his mind that he can do it. Time will temper those expectations.

As bad as he's looked in some games, he's looked good in other games earlier this year. Which is about what I expect from a rookie QB who is learning to throw as we speak. He works hard, has ability and has shown flashes in only 7 starts this year. What the hell do we expect?

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Honestly, he looks to me like a young QB who's only started 7 games. He looks like a QB who has insane natural ability and relies on that by instinct when in trouble. He looks like a QB who doesn't have any great weapons and an "OK" O-Line.

He looks like most young QBs, except when other young QBs panic they can't scramble around like he can. Remember, he scored a long TD the other week and it's still ingrained in his mind that he can do it. Time will temper those expectations.

As bad as he's looked in some games, he's looked good in other games earlier this year. Which is about what I expect from a rookie QB who is learning to throw as we speak. He works hard, has ability and has shown flashes in only 7 starts this year. What the hell do we expect?

:goodposting:

The Raiders are not going to pull the plug on Pryor for a long time. Anybody who thinks he "sucks and will be replaced soon because he is a clown" is not paying attention. Unfortunately this thread has some clowns in it, but none is named Pryor.

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Good post hoss, what had me sold was the Denver game where every said he d get slaughtered. He was calm and poised, just think what an off season could do.

He's already had two off-seasons. This isn't a rookie QB, this is someone who's halfway through his third year with the team. Yes, it's his seventh start and he may continue to improve, but you shouldn't expect his improvement to be at the pace of a rookie. He may never get to the point of being a consistent passer. The most obvious comp right now is Vick.

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Good post hoss, what had me sold was the Denver game where every said he d get slaughtered. He was calm and poised, just think what an off season could do.

He's already had two off-seasons. This isn't a rookie QB, this is someone who's halfway through his third year with the team. Yes, it's his seventh start and he may continue to improve, but you shouldn't expect his improvement to be at the pace of a rookie. He may never get to the point of being a consistent passer. The most obvious comp right now is Vick.

You may be right. My previous post wasn't really directed at you. The fact remains that the kid's only had 7 starts. It's too early to seal his fate just as it was too early to crown him the next big thing earlier this year.

Edited by Hoss Style
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Annnnnd McGloin came in and drove them right down the field twice, once to the PHI 10 & the other for a TD. Yes, garbage time, but garbage time Pryor was not taking advantage of. I'm not sure we have seen the last of him this year.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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