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The Nick Foles era (1 Viewer)

cstu said:
CalBear said:
cstu said:
If the Eagles let Foles go it will be akin to what the Chargers did with Brees.
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The situations aren't comparable at all. With Brees, you had someone who started very slowly, going 10-17 in his first two years as a starter, with < 60% completions and more INTs than TDs. Then in his third year, the light came on and he went 11-4 with great stats. But his earlier suckage had caused them to use a high draft pick on Philip Rivers, and they didn't believe Brees' one good season was indicative of him being more of a franchise QB than Rivers. They were wrong, but the call was an understandable one for them to make (especially considering their GM was an egomaniac who couldn't possibly accept that he was wrong).

Foles, on the other hand, had a great second year, but in his third year has regressed significantly in every passing statistic. He's the 21st ranked fantasy QB, and most of his rate stats are around that level as well (except INTs where he's second only to Bortles). So Philly has real reason to question whether Foles' one good season is indicative of him being a franchise QB.
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I wasn't comparing their situations, the Chargers had very good reasons to let Brees go. Foles has regressed but he's also had an OL shambles. I think he's better QB than his numbers this year indicate. Maybe he'll never be a great QB but even consistently good QB's are tough to find.
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This is really all that needs to be said. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs only look over the collection of mediocrities being trotted out by NFL teams this weekend. If Foles were cut today, his agent would field a dozen phone calls before the ink dried on the termination papers.

It does not take a superstar QB to win a Super Bowl - you can't win it with a bad one, but average or better will do as long as he's surrounded by superior talent. (Exhibits A and B: Eli Manning and Joe Flacco.)

I have enough faith in Chip to assume the Eagles will continue to be an above-average team, no matter who lines up under center. So if the Birds try to find their QB of the future in the draft ... well, take a look at the history of QBs drafted in the second half of the first round or later. What's the hit rate?

Spoiler alert: It's not good.

So that leaves free agency. You want to be the team lining up and bidding double the market rate for the services of Sam Bradford? Or Jake Locker?

OTOH, by keeping Foles you get a guy who's shown he can excel, not just in general but in Chip's system specifically. He's already shown enough that we can basically rule out "complete bust" as a career arc. Now that still leaves a range of possibilities from Josh Freeman (complete flash in the pan) to Drew Brees (slow-starting first-ballot HOF'er), but IMO that range is most heavily weighted between "average" and "very good".

Most coaches can win a title with at least the right side of that bell curve. I think Chip can do so with almost all of it.

And, by the way, he's not going to break the bank. If he sticks around past next season, it'll be on a deal very much like Kaepernick's - if he becomes a superstar it will be money well spent, but otherwise the Birds can cut him loose with minimal cap hit.

I think letting Foles walk would be a huge mistake, and doing so in favor of Sanchez (who's got a longer history of worse performance by almost every quantitative metric) would be a catastrophe.
 
Sanchez is a system QB. Put him on another team and he faceplants if has no talent around him like he did when he was in New York. But in this system, with these weapons, half the battle is just executing it. Putting the ball in the playmakers hands. It's not rocket science. He looked good in relief of Foles, and my money is on him continuing to do well under Chip Kelly's guidance. Foles isn't unexpendible by any means. If Sanchez can have success in Kelly's system, so can any JAG QB.

 
cstu said:
ShaHBucks said:
I swore the media gave up here. I guess not.
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Almost any city would be thrilled to have a QB who has 47 TD's to 17 INT's in his first 28 games.
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Not the vocal minority here. They want Michael Vick and McNabb or the idea of them, until they don't. Then they want Garcia, or Kolb or Feeley or Detmer, until they don't. Basically the backup QB is always the one they want.

 
Insein said:
cstu said:
ShaHBucks said:
I swore the media gave up here. I guess not.
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Almost any city would be thrilled to have a QB who has 47 TD's to 17 INT's in his first 28 games.
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Not the vocal minority here. They want Michael Vick and McNabb or the idea of them, until they don't. Then they want Garcia, or Kolb or Feeley or Detmer, until they don't. Basically the backup QB is always the one they want.
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:goodposting:

 
Demian said:
Insein said:
cstu said:
ShaHBucks said:
I swore the media gave up here. I guess not.
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Almost any city would be thrilled to have a QB who has 47 TD's to 17 INT's in his first 28 games.
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Not the vocal minority here. They want Michael Vick and McNabb or the idea of them, until they don't. Then they want Garcia, or Kolb or Feeley or Detmer, until they don't. Basically the backup QB is always the one they want.
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:goodposting:
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Wrong?
 
The Eagles are 13-4 in Foles' last 17 starts.

The injury may be a blessing in disguise. He has time to reflect on why his mentality regarding not committing turnovers changed. You can't just let a guy who wins that much go.

 
just_want_2_win said:
The Newark Star-Ledger reports members in the Eagles organization, including GM Howie Roseman, had "soured" on Nick Foles even before he broke his collarbone in Week 9.
"I think Howie is looking at quarterbacks," a league source told NJ.com. "He's kind of soured on Foles, and I don't think he's alone. The organization isn't sold that he's the guy going forward. Let's just say the way things were going, he wasn't going to get a contract extension that's for sure." Foles is eligible for an extension in the offseason. After posting a ridiculous 27:2 TD:INT ratio across 13 games and 10 starts last season, Foles took a step back before getting hurt. He's tossed the second-most interceptions (10) behind only Blake Bortles and is averaging a weak 6.9 YPA. We're not sold on Foles being the quarterback of the future anywhere, let alone Philadelphia. Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg drafted Foles.
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For what it's worth, there were reports the Patriots wanted to trade Brady to the Texans for Clowney earlier this year too. So anything can be reported.

 
ORC said:
The Eagles are 13-4 in Foles' last 17 starts.
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As an Eagles' fan I just want the team to succeed. Foles has not looked comfortable this year as everyone has witnessed. With the injury, I want Sanchez to do well for as long as he starts.

IF the team decides to move on from Foles after this season, they better come in and continue to win games at a 0.750 clip.

Anyway, Chip Kelly's response regarding the organization souring on Foles: I Control The Roster

"I don’t know where that stuff comes from," Kelly said. "I know this, I know I control the roster. And I think you guys can say first-hand, I don’t talk to anybody. So whoever says they have a source in terms of what’s gonna go on with roster maneuvers or people going up and people going down, they never talked to the right person because that comes from me, and that never was the case.

"I’ve got great faith in Nick, and I think he’s a hell of a quarterback, and I think sometimes he gets banged too much, but I wish there was more people like Nick Foles in our lives."

 
I like Foles. I want him to succeed. Two things that concern me: He doesn't run the ball very well, which, in my mind inhibits this offense some, and he was turning the ball over way to much this year. If the Eagles had not picked up Darren Sproles this year, the Eagles could be 4-4 or 3-5 due to all the turnovers.

I think if Sanchez plays well, you try to sign him to a two year deal at maybe $6 million per year. I think he would sign for that, because he does not have as much value as a potential starter on another team. At the same time, you keep Foles and let Foles and Sanchez compete for the starting job. If Foles wins and you determine he is your guy, you try to lock him up to a long term deal.

 
Insein said:
just_want_2_win said:
The Newark Star-Ledger reports members in the Eagles organization, including GM Howie Roseman, had "soured" on Nick Foles even before he broke his collarbone in Week 9.
"I think Howie is looking at quarterbacks," a league source told NJ.com. "He's kind of soured on Foles, and I don't think he's alone. The organization isn't sold that he's the guy going forward. Let's just say the way things were going, he wasn't going to get a contract extension that's for sure." Foles is eligible for an extension in the offseason. After posting a ridiculous 27:2 TD:INT ratio across 13 games and 10 starts last season, Foles took a step back before getting hurt. He's tossed the second-most interceptions (10) behind only Blake Bortles and is averaging a weak 6.9 YPA. We're not sold on Foles being the quarterback of the future anywhere, let alone Philadelphia. Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg drafted Foles.
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For what it's worth, there were reports the Patriots wanted to trade Brady to the Texans for Clowney earlier this year too. So anything can be reported.
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To be fair I don't think there were ANY reports the Patriots wanted to do this. It was all hypotheticals or pipe dreams of people with too much time on their hands throwing spaghetti at the wall.

 
just_want_2_win said:
The Newark Star-Ledger reports members in the Eagles organization, including GM Howie Roseman, had "soured" on Nick Foles even before he broke his collarbone in Week 9.
"I think Howie is looking at quarterbacks," a league source told NJ.com. "He's kind of soured on Foles, and I don't think he's alone. The organization isn't sold that he's the guy going forward. Let's just say the way things were going, he wasn't going to get a contract extension that's for sure." Foles is eligible for an extension in the offseason. After posting a ridiculous 27:2 TD:INT ratio across 13 games and 10 starts last season, Foles took a step back before getting hurt. He's tossed the second-most interceptions (10) behind only Blake Bortles and is averaging a weak 6.9 YPA. We're not sold on Foles being the quarterback of the future anywhere, let alone Philadelphia. Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg drafted Foles.
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After Foles' injury, NJ.com reported, citing unnamed sources with knowledge of the Eagles' plans, that the team was beginning to sour on the young signal-caller and "isn't sold that he's the guy going forward."

On Thursday, Kelly denied the report had any shred of credibility.

"I don't know where that stuff comes from," Kelly said, per PhillyMag.com. "I know this, I know I control the roster. And I think you guys can say first-hand, I don't talk to anybody. So whoever says they have a source in terms of what's gonna go on with roster maneuvers or people going up and people going down, they never talked to the right person because that comes from me, and that never was the case.

"I've got great faith in Nick, and I think he's a hell of a quarterback, and I think sometimes he gets banged too much, but I wish there was more people like Nick Foles in our lives."
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Insein said:
Not the vocal minority here. They want Michael Vick and McNabb or the idea of them, until they don't. Then they want Garcia, or Kolb or Feeley or Detmer, until they don't. Basically the backup QB is always the one they want.
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They're not unique in that regard. Washington fans are the same way and have been for decades.

 
it's probably already mentioned, but Foles was lights out last year with a healthy o line. This year, these injuries, yeah, I see some David Carr happy feet.

 
I do agree that this offense is limited without an athletic QB in the sense that nobody was buying Foles keeping the ball on those reads, and even if he fakes them out he isn't getting very far. That was one dimension Vick brought to the table which made it so exciting. Vick didn't work out in the end, but I think if they can land a guy in future drafts like a Kaep/Cam/RGIII/Wilson it could be a thing of beauty that would open up running lanes like we saw with Vick at QB. This is from a guy that drafted Foles. I don't think Sanchez is the long term answer here, which isn't going out on a limb really I know, but he might put together a decent run vs this remaining schedule.

 
mnmplayer said:
I do agree that this offense is limited without an athletic QB in the sense that nobody was buying Foles keeping the ball on those reads, and even if he fakes them out he isn't getting very far. That was one dimension Vick brought to the table which made it so exciting. Vick didn't work out in the end, but I think if they can land a guy in future drafts like a Kaep/Cam/RGIII/Wilson it could be a thing of beauty that would open up running lanes like we saw with Vick at QB. This is from a guy that drafted Foles. I don't think Sanchez is the long term answer here, which isn't going out on a limb really I know, but he might put together a decent run vs this remaining schedule.
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These are not zone reads theyre calling. Kelly said these are just straight handoffs with no read involved. HIs quote was "We're not calling as much read as you all think we are. These are designed runs"

 
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I have watched every condensed game of the season for Phi. Foles runs like 20 feet in the opposite direction of the play on many handoffs. He doesn't just hand off and watch the play like with most teams so whatever you want to call them, its a joke that he finishes the plays by running to the opposite direction of the run and I know this is coached for him to finish the play doing that even on run plays.

 
I would think by now the "Kelly's offense uses a running QB" was debunked, no? His offense is tailored to his personnel. If he had a running QB, he's take advantage of that, sure, but he'll take advantage of whatever he has.

 
All things being equal, if a QB can run too that's another dimension that he can take advantage of. Just like he says ideally he would like a 6'4 big WR but he works with what he got. That doesn't mean he can't be effective with Maclin and Jackson, but its not ideal personnel.

 
mnmplayer said:
I have watched every condensed game of the season for Phi. Foles runs like 20 feet in the opposite direction of the play on many handoffs. He doesn't just hand off and watch the play like with most teams so whatever you want to call them, its a joke that he finishes the plays by running to the opposite direction of the run and I know this is coached for him to finish the play doing that even on run plays.
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Its no different then a run off of a TE where the QB carries out a fake to the opposite side.

 
VaTerp said:
Insein said:
just_want_2_win said:
The Newark Star-Ledger reports members in the Eagles organization, including GM Howie Roseman, had "soured" on Nick Foles even before he broke his collarbone in Week 9.

"I think Howie is looking at quarterbacks," a league source told NJ.com. "He's kind of soured on Foles, and I don't think he's alone. The organization isn't sold that he's the guy going forward. Let's just say the way things were going, he wasn't going to get a contract extension that's for sure." Foles is eligible for an extension in the offseason. After posting a ridiculous 27:2 TD:INT ratio across 13 games and 10 starts last season, Foles took a step back before getting hurt. He's tossed the second-most interceptions (10) behind only Blake Bortles and is averaging a weak 6.9 YPA. We're not sold on Foles being the quarterback of the future anywhere, let alone Philadelphia. Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg drafted Foles.
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For what it's worth, there were reports the Patriots wanted to trade Brady to the Texans for Clowney earlier this year too. So anything can be reported.
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To be fair I don't think there were ANY reports the Patriots wanted to do this. It was all hypotheticals or pipe dreams of people with too much time on their hands throwing spaghetti at the wall.
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You don't say? :shrug:
 
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Tool said:
Faust said:
Chip Kelly on report of Foles' future: I control roster
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As a foles owner in a dynasty league, that is reassuring. Unless Sanchez plays out of his mind, which seems rather unlikely, Foles will be the QB next year IMO.
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Did Chip really say anything reassuring there? Not saying it's likely that Sanchez is the guy next year, but Foles does have a 59 percent completion percentage and 14 turnovers. Sanchez doesn't have to be Peyton Manning to outplay him and create a QB competition in training camp.

 
ryno1980 said:
Tool said:
Faust said:
Chip Kelly on report of Foles' future: I control roster
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As a foles owner in a dynasty league, that is reassuring. Unless Sanchez plays out of his mind, which seems rather unlikely, Foles will be the QB next year IMO.
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Did Chip really say anything reassuring there? Not saying it's likely that Sanchez is the guy next year, but Foles does have a 59 percent completion percentage and 14 turnovers. Sanchez doesn't have to be Peyton Manning to outplay him and create a QB competition in training camp.
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Look I'm hoping Sanchez does well but right now he's still Mark Sanchez until I see otherwise. He's also a FA at the end of the year as well.

 
Rotoworld:

Nick Foles (broken collarbone) is due for a follow-up appointment either this week or next.
The absolute best-case scenario for Foles was thought to be a six-week recovery timetable following his Nov. 2 fracture. That means Week 14, although no one is really expecting that. We also don't know if Foles will even get his starting job back at that point as he wasn't playing at a very high level prior to the injury. Replacement Mark Sanchez has been equally mediocre, but is 2-1 as the starter with three 300-yard games.

Related: Mark Sanchez

Source: Zach Berman on Twitter
Nov 24 - 12:43 PM
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Rotoworld:

Nick Foles' (collarbone) four-week followup CT scan revealed the injury is healing normally.

He's been cleared to step up strengthening exercises with an eye toward full clearance in 2-4 weeks. Foles still can't take a hit at the moment. Anything can change, but Mark Sanchez is coming off a strong start on Thanksgiving and has led the Eagles to a 3-1 record across four games under center. He has more athleticism than Foles and has run the offense perfectly. A lot is going to depend on how Sanchez fares over his next couple starts, but it appears Foles will be cleared before the regular season is through.

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer & Daily News
Nov 29 - 9:50 AM
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Rotoworld:

Nick Foles - QB - Eagles

FOX Philadelphia's Howard Eskin reports Nick Foles' collarbone is just 70 percent healed.

Eskin's report has been seconded by FOX Sports' Mike Garofolo. It means there's no way Foles will return before the end of the regular season, and that he'll likely be questionable for a potential Wild Card appearance. The Eagles' hopes of a division championship are pinned to the scattershot arm and decision-making of Mark Sanchez.

Related: Mark Sanchez

Source: Howard Eskin on Twitter

Dec 16 - 2:39 PM
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SacramentoBob said:
SacramentoBob said:
SacramentoBob said:
Insein said:
mbuehner said:
Foles might even throw 4 ints this season and what a disaster that would be.
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The cry would be he threw twice as many ints as last year. He's not Kellys guy.
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Fun Fact: In ~ 4 quarters of play this preseason, Foles already has 3 INTs vs 2 TDs.
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Looks like he's going to throw a lot of picks this year.
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Bump.
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Nice. Since he hasnt played in two months and was stick on 2137-13-10. Not really a chance to correct his numbers from early in the year when the oline had 4 starters out.

 
Rotoworld:

Nick Foles (collarbone) has been ruled out for Week 17.

Coach Chip Kelly has already said that Mark Sanchez will remain under center against the Giants, and that the team won't be turning to Matt Barkley. It means Foles closes the book on 2014 having played zero snaps after November 2, and the owner of a 13:10 TD:INT ratio and 81.4 QB rating through eight starts. Foles will enter the offseason as the favorite for 2015 duties, but the Eagles will undoubtedly search for alternatives. It's just a matter of if they can find a better option.

Source: Reuben Frank on Twitter
Dec 22 - 1:07 PM
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Foles is an average-to-a-bit better NFL QB. Say 10-15, 12-16 -- something like that. And he's 25 in 2015. The odds that the Eagles can improve on that without selling the franchise are very low, and Foles will probably start again next year IMO.

 
wdcrob said:
Foles is an average-to-a-bit better NFL QB. Say 10-15, 12-16 -- something like that. And he's 25 in 2015. The odds that the Eagles can improve on that without selling the franchise are very low, and Foles will probably start again next year IMO.
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Quarterback is the least of our problems. If they mortgage the future for Mariota, it would set us back years.

 
wdcrob said:
Foles is an average-to-a-bit better NFL QB. Say 10-15, 12-16 -- something like that. And he's 25 in 2015. The odds that the Eagles can improve on that without selling the franchise are very low, and Foles will probably start again next year IMO.
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He has a 14-4 record the past two years and an adjusted net yards per pass attempt as a 2nd and 3rd year QB that is behind only Warner.

 
cstu said:
wdcrob said:
Foles is an average-to-a-bit better NFL QB. Say 10-15, 12-16 -- something like that. And he's 25 in 2015. The odds that the Eagles can improve on that without selling the franchise are very low, and Foles will probably start again next year IMO.
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He has a 14-4 record the past two years and an adjusted net yards per pass attempt as a 2nd and 3rd year QB that is behind only Warner.
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[sarcasm]He's a bum that can run Kellys offense. No 2nd or 3rd year QBs have played mediocre behind 4 second string linemen EVER! Guy can't play in the league.

[/sarcasm]

I've never seen a QB that has had the success Foles has had in the league in his first 3 years get dismissed as being unable to play.

 
cstu said:
wdcrob said:
Foles is an average-to-a-bit better NFL QB. Say 10-15, 12-16 -- something like that. And he's 25 in 2015. The odds that the Eagles can improve on that without selling the franchise are very low, and Foles will probably start again next year IMO.
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He has a 14-4 record the past two years and an adjusted net yards per pass attempt as a 2nd and 3rd year QB that is behind only Warner.
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And a career passer rating higher than Andrew Luck's :coffee:

 
Sometimes I forget this is about Fantasy Football. This a good time to buy. Foles is going to be the QB in "Chip Kelly System" next season.

 
The only legit knock you can give Foles right now is that he's possibly injury prone. He's had a significant injury every year he's been in the league.

 
Insein said:
The only legit knock you can give Foles right now is that he's possibly injury prone. He's had a significant injury every year he's been in the league.
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He's immobile and unathletic by NFL QB standards, so he's always gonna be prone to taking big hits.

 
Insein said:
wdcrob said:
Foles is an average-to-a-bit better NFL QB. Say 10-15, 12-16 -- something like that. And he's 25 in 2015. The odds that the Eagles can improve on that without selling the franchise are very low, and Foles will probably start again next year IMO.
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Quarterback is the least of our problems. If they mortgage the future for Mariota, it would set us back years.
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Getting a franchise QB never sets anyone back. Missing on the pick does, but not if they get it right.

 
T

Pip said:
Insein said:
The only legit knock you can give Foles right now is that he's possibly injury prone. He's had a significant injury every year he's been in the league.
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He's immobile and unathletic by NFL QB standards, so he's always gonna be prone to taking big hits.
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Yep, just like Peyton, Eli, Brady...those immobile and unathletic guys have stayed healthy, yes? Manning had his year off with a neck issue, Brady with his knee, but by and large very durable. And there are other examples, these are just off the top of my head,.

2013 - Foles rushing = 57/221, 3 TD's. Long of 21.

I think he's more mobile and athletic than many of his peers...I know he's goofy and all, but I have seen him keep the ball on read options and go 8-10 yards several times.

IMO, injuries can often be fluky

 
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