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2 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Do they pay a dividend every month or something?  On yahoo I see July 9th.  

Oh wait, you said V, not T

And again, is that the date they announce it or the date it is paid out?  I rather not just assume something here and be wrong.

Neither. It's the date you need to be an owner to receive the dividend. It gets paid out at a later date, oddly called the payment date. August 3 for T.

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Trying to time bottoms is very hard. If you believe in the company long term I feel this price is a very strong entry point long term. Set it and forget for a while. When it doubles....take your

I will make a wager. If this stock hits $420.69 before this earnings call on March 31st, I will pass out 100 FBG subscriptions to the gents in the stock thread.

sponks

4 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Do they pay a dividend every month or something?  On yahoo I see July 9th.  

Oh wait, you said V, not T

And again, is that the date they announce it or the date it is paid out?  I rather not just assume something here and be wrong.

Most pay quarterly. Not all.

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2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Neither. It's the date you need to be an owner to receive the dividend. It gets paid out at a later date, oddly called the payment date. August 3 for T.

Ok so we should probably expect the share price to go down some on August 3rd (or do you need to own it the whole day so the 4th?)

Will the share price go UP from the day they announce that until the 3rd?

Edited by ghostguy123
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Date they announced: no idea. Some random date. Doesn't really matter.

Ex-dividend date:  July 9. Own the stock on that date and you'll receive the next payment, which occurs on...

Payment date: August 3

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8 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Do they pay a dividend every month or something?  On yahoo I see July 9th.  

Oh wait, you said V, not T

And again, is that the date they announce it or the date it is paid out?  I rather not just assume something here and be wrong.

ok, what brokerage do you use? They should actually list the “ex-dividend” date on the overall page of your stock. Start there and see if you can find it. You don’t have to figure it out. They will list as part of the stock summary. Once you find that, come back.

Edited by McBokonon
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2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Date they announced: no idea. Some random date. Doesn't really matter.

Ex-dividend date:  July 9. Own the stock on that date and you'll receive the next payment, which occurs on...

Payment date: August 3

Interesting.  Seems like there might be people gaming the system on that one?

When do they decide its July 9th?  Before or after that?

Edited by ghostguy123
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2 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Ok so we should probably expect the share price to go down some on August 3rd (or do you need to own it the whole day so the 4th?)

Will the share price go UP from the day they announce that until the 3rd?

 now you're just ####ing with me,  right?

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1 minute ago, ghostguy123 said:

Interesting.  Seems like there might be people gaming the system on that one?

When do they decide its July 9th?  Before or after that?

before or after what? Look, my next post will summarize this. Don’t post until then. If you do, I won’t finish it. 

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4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Date they announced: no idea. Some random date. Doesn't really matter.

Ex-dividend date:  July 9. Own the stock on that date and you'll receive the next payment, which occurs on...

Payment date: August 3

Technically wouldn’t you have to own it on the 8th?

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7 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I was posting at the same time as you.  My loss I guess

Dividends are usually paid quarterly. Up to the company. Some semi-annually, some annually, they can do it every time Capricorn is in Orion’s shadow or whatever. Usually quarterly.

 The summary page of your stock page has the following listed. If they don’t, find a brokerage that isn’t terrible:

Ex-Dividend Date

Record Date

Dividend Pay Date

 If you own the stock prior to the ex-dividend date, and hang on to it until after the ex-dividend date, you’ll get the entire dividend.

 Sometimes companies announce it when they report earnings, sometimes when the CFO is taking a dump. Doesn’t matter. Usually weeks or months before the ex-date

 That’s it. There’s no gaming. You should make NO decisions on when to buy a stock around the dividend. Can you buy before the ex- dividend date and then sell after for no loss and get the dividend? Sure. Can you buy the day before the ex-date and then the stock craters for way more than you are going to get from the dividend? Sure.

Edited by McBokonon
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27 minutes ago, McBokonon said:

Dividends are usually paid quarterly. Up to the company. Some semi-annually, some annually, they can do it every time Capricorn is in Orion’s shadow or whatever. Usually quarterly.

 The summary page of your stock page has the following listed. If they don’t, find a brokerage that isn’t terrible:

Ex-Dividend Date

Record Date

Dividend Pay Date

 If you own the stock prior to the ex-dividend date, and hang on to it until after the ex-dividend date, you’ll get the entire dividend.

 Sometimes companies announce it when they report earnings, sometimes when the CFO is taking a dump. Doesn’t matter. Usually weeks or months before the ex-date

 That’s it. There’s no gaming. You should make NO decisions on when to buy a stock around the dividend. Can you buy before the ex- dividend date and then sell after for no loss and get the dividend? Sure. Can you buy the day before the ex-date and then the stock craters for way more than you are going to get from the dividend? Sure.

Not really looking to devise some sort of strategy around the dividend myself.  Just looking to get a better understanding of how it works.

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47 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Ok so we should probably expect the share price to go down some on August 3rd (or do you need to own it the whole day so the 4th?)

Will the share price go UP from the day they announce that until the 3rd?

Bah. Just realized what you're getting at here.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/B3nATT4FPkb3G/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493bzflv4itb14k2vi25e6hbh426s2x9sdcihk1vby4t&rid=giphy.gif

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So, in theory, if the company existed in a vacuum, with no macroeconomic impacts, completely predictable revenue, expenses, growth rates, income, etc... Sure, you might expect that the company pays out $.90 in dividends today, the value of each share decreases by $.90 when payment is made, and then each day for the next quarter the share price would increase by 1 penny until the next quarterly payout of $.90.

But in reality, share price is only loosely based on those variables. Supply and demand are going to drive the price much more than the underlying fubdamentals, partially because no company operates in a vacuum and none of those things are exactly predictable. So the price could tank the day before a dividend gets paid out because nobody us buying it and the price could shoot up the day a dividend is paid out because stonks go up.

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Quick question for the Sunday crowd regarding some investing advice for my 73 year old mother.  I have mentioned this in the past in the personal finance thread but wanted to get more of a take from the stonk perspective.

My mom is 73.  Lives alone.  Mostly healthy.  Owns her house and car.  Has no debt.  Her retirement income from working currently covers her living expenses.  

She has about 30-35 grand in savings.  Zero investments.  We are in northeast Ohio so living expenses are pretty reasonable.  

She also has zero knowledge of anything related to investing.  You think I am a dunce when it comes to stonks,  you should try talking to her about it.  Brutal.  She isnt an idiot or anything, just has never educated herself for 2 seconds in the matter.

That said, she somewhat trusts me to invest some of the money for her.  I guess my question is, what is the safest asset I could get some of her money into and get her some kind of return?

For example, I have mentioned T as have others.  Currently a 7% dividend, and the low back in March was only about 10-12% down from where it is right now.  

I vaguely remember someone talking about an ETF of dividend stonks with maybe a 4-5% dividend.  

Not worried about taxes because this will all be in a roth.

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15 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Quick question for the Sunday crowd regarding some investing advice for my 73 year old mother.  I have mentioned this in the past in the personal finance thread but wanted to get more of a take from the stonk perspective.

My mom is 73.  Lives alone.  Mostly healthy.  Owns her house and car.  Has no debt.  Her retirement income from working currently covers her living expenses.  

She has about 30-35 grand in savings.  Zero investments.  We are in northeast Ohio so living expenses are pretty reasonable.  

She also has zero knowledge of anything related to investing.  You think I am a dunce when it comes to stonks,  you should try talking to her about it.  Brutal.  She isnt an idiot or anything, just has never educated herself for 2 seconds in the matter.

That said, she somewhat trusts me to invest some of the money for her.  I guess my question is, what is the safest asset I could get some of her money into and get her some kind of return?

For example, I have mentioned T as have others.  Currently a 7% dividend, and the low back in March was only about 10-12% down from where it is right now.  

I vaguely remember someone talking about an ETF of dividend stonks with maybe a 4-5% dividend.  

Not worried about taxes because this will all be in a roth.

Kind of a tough spot.  With the inputs you gave us I think the main thing is she continues to live within her means and never spend at a deficit in any given month.  She should probably make sure she’s sacking away 100-200 a month Now so ten years from now when (not if) momma Ghost is still with us her investment will keep up with inflation so she can live at a small deficit.

Id say put 10K in a savings account For emergency, 10K in SPY and spread the remaining 15K between some dividend plays.

A spot where the SPY crashes by 50% is probably the best for her as a deflationary event.

Edited by The Ref
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5 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Kind of a tough spot.  With the inputs you gave us I think the main thing is she continues to live within her means and never spend at a deficit in any given month.  She should probably make sure she’s sacking away 100-200 a month Now so ten years from now when (not if) momma Ghost is still with us her investment will keep up with inflation so she can live at a small deficit.

Id say put 10K in a savings account For emergency, 10K in SPY and spread the remaining 15K between some dividend plays.

 

I tried to explain to her that she is actually losing money with that cash sitting in a bank account earning a couple cents a month.   She did not understand the concept.  

I showed her my fidelity accounts and she was blown away with how much money I have in there.  It's not some crazy amount at all, but way the heck more than she has.  She asked my how I got that much.  My reply, "because I invest my money rather than let it sit in a bank account losing value".   Maybe just maybe I can convince her to take a ride on the stonk train.

 

Edited by ghostguy123
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Looking for some advice myself if anyone has experience with it.  GG Ref is in her 97th year and has dropped from 140lbs to 100lbs this past year due to a lot of stomach And other issues.  Long story short the writing is on the wall, probably not today or tomorrow but 100 Probably isn’t In the cards.  

many years ago (like 20) her house and a lot of other assets were put in a irrevocable trust.  So in many ways her estate is in fairly good shape.

Now comes the “first world problem”.  Her personal day to day checking account is flush.  Between social security and bingo winnings what was 15k a few years ago is 60K today.  She’s just not getting out of the house to spend any of it.  Miss Ref is 12 and has a prepaid college fund half way paid for.  She’s the only great Grandchild.  Her three grand kids (I’m one of, obv) got 10K 15 years ago so in her mind we have been taken care of, which is 100% cool.
 

GG is of the mind to gift 15K to Miss Ref.  The “problem” (I’m the mind of Mr Ref, my dad) is if she needed to go to assisted living the state could insist that the money be returned.  
 

Is there a way around this if it goes to a 529 or other vehicle?
 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

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14 hours ago, McBokonon said:

Ok. Did that help?

Just to leach onto this conversation.  I am a 56 year old guy, the wife and I have separate retirement accounts.  Is it too late to get into dividends?  If wanted a $1000 a month from dividends, I would have to have $250,000, at 4%, right?

 

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11 minutes ago, kliph said:

Just to leach onto this conversation.  I am a 56 year old guy, the wife and I have separate retirement accounts.  Is it too late to get into dividends?  If wanted a $1000 a month from dividends, I would have to have $250,000, at 4%, right?

 

That would get you $833 a month, but who is counting.

never too late

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15 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Looking for some advice myself if anyone has experience with it.  GG Ref is in her 97th year and has dropped from 140lbs to 100lbs this past year due to a lot of stomach And other issues.  Long story short the writing is on the wall, probably not today or tomorrow but 100 Probably isn’t In the cards.  

many years ago (like 20) her house and a lot of other assets were put in a irrevocable trust.  So in many ways her estate is in fairly good shape.

Now comes the “first world problem”.  Her personal day to day checking account is flush.  Between social security and bingo winnings what was 15k a few years ago is 60K today.  She’s just not getting out of the house to spend any of it.  Miss Ref is 12 and has a prepaid college fund half way paid for.  She’s the only great Grandchild.  Her three grand kids (I’m one of, obv) got 10K 15 years ago so in her mind we have been taken care of, which is 100% cool.
 

GG is of the mind to gift 15K to Miss Ref.  The “problem” is if she needed to go to assisted living the state could insist that the money be returned.  Is there a way around this if it goes to a 529 or other vehicle?
 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

The trust is separate entity from her.  Not sure the state can touch the trust.  Who is the trust's beneficiary?  

 

Edit: If she dies.

 

Edited by Golf Guy 69
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7 minutes ago, Golf Guy 69 said:

The trust is separate entity from her.  Not sure the state can touch the trust.  Who is the trust's beneficiary?  

 

Edit: If she dies.

 

Yeah the trust part of it I’m not worried about.  The beneficiary is my Dad and my two cousins (my uncle passed a few years back).  
 

again my question is if she gives 15k to my daughter out of her personal checking account (which is not in trust) is there a way to prevent the state from “Clawback” if she goes to a home in the next 1-2 years.

my dad, who gets to call the shots, has no issues with this happening but is concerned about what happens if the state steps in.

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56 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Quick question for the Sunday crowd regarding some investing advice for my 73 year old mother.  I have mentioned this in the past in the personal finance thread but wanted to get more of a take from the stonk perspective.

My mom is 73.  Lives alone.  Mostly healthy.  Owns her house and car.  Has no debt.  Her retirement income from working currently covers her living expenses.  

She has about 30-35 grand in savings.  Zero investments.  We are in northeast Ohio so living expenses are pretty reasonable.  

She also has zero knowledge of anything related to investing.  You think I am a dunce when it comes to stonks,  you should try talking to her about it.  Brutal.  She isnt an idiot or anything, just has never educated herself for 2 seconds in the matter.

That said, she somewhat trusts me to invest some of the money for her.  I guess my question is, what is the safest asset I could get some of her money into and get her some kind of return?

For example, I have mentioned T as have others.  Currently a 7% dividend, and the low back in March was only about 10-12% down from where it is right now.  

I vaguely remember someone talking about an ETF of dividend stonks with maybe a 4-5% dividend.  

Not worried about taxes because this will all be in a roth.

So the money is already in a Roth?

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7 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Yeah the trust part of it I’m not worried about.  The beneficiary is my Dad and my two cousins (my uncle passed a few years back).  
 

again my question is if she gives 15k to my daughter out of her personal checking account (which is not in trust) is there a way to prevent the state from “Clawback” if she goes to a home in the next 1-2 years.

my dad, who gets to call the shots, has no issues with this happening but is concerned about what happens if the state steps in.

She can give it out of the trust instead of the checking account.  Problem solved.  

Not up on FL regulations regarding this but the sooner its done the better.  

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10 minutes ago, Golf Guy 69 said:

She can give it out of the trust instead of the checking account.  Problem solved.  

Not up on FL regulations regarding this but the sooner its done the better.  

It’s true that she could but you are solving for X not Y.  Getting my daughter the 15K isn’t the issue (per se).  The issue is doing something with the 60k (and growing) in her checking account...... I know first world problem.

 

the more I read the more I’m resigned to the fact that there isn’t a way out of being in penalty if she needs Medicare living assistance in the next 5 years.

 

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5 minutes ago, The Ref said:

It’s true that she could but you are solving for X not Y.  Getting my daughter the 15K isn’t the issue (per se).  The issue is doing something with the 60k (and growing) in her checking account...... I know first world problem.

 

the more I read the more I’m resigned to the fact that there isn’t a way out of being in penalty if she needs Medicare living assistance in the next 5 years.

 

What if GG loans the money to Miss Ref?  Say a 10-year note, interest only, with balloon at the end of 10 years.  Self-cancelling upon death of GG.   

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

Quick question for the Sunday crowd regarding some investing advice for my 73 year old mother.  I have mentioned this in the past in the personal finance thread but wanted to get more of a take from the stonk perspective.

My mom is 73.  Lives alone.  Mostly healthy.  Owns her house and car.  Has no debt.  Her retirement income from working currently covers her living expenses.  

She has about 30-35 grand in savings.  Zero investments.  We are in northeast Ohio so living expenses are pretty reasonable.  

She also has zero knowledge of anything related to investing.  You think I am a dunce when it comes to stonks,  you should try talking to her about it.  Brutal.  She isnt an idiot or anything, just has never educated herself for 2 seconds in the matter.

That said, she somewhat trusts me to invest some of the money for her.  I guess my question is, what is the safest asset I could get some of her money into and get her some kind of return?

For example, I have mentioned T as have others.  Currently a 7% dividend, and the low back in March was only about 10-12% down from where it is right now.  

I vaguely remember someone talking about an ETF of dividend stonks with maybe a 4-5% dividend.  

Not worried about taxes because this will all be in a roth.

I wouldn't put it in one stock.  A dividend etf would be good such as VIG.

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32 minutes ago, johnnycakes said:

What if GG loans the money to Miss Ref?  Say a 10-year note, interest only, with balloon at the end of 10 years.  Self-cancelling upon death of GG.   

Not a bad idea but I don’t think it would pass the clawback because she would need to repay.  The state would be expecting the money in due time even with the cancel.

 

sorry I think I did a FBG no-no in that I asked a question that there isn’t a good answer too.

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51 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Not a bad idea but I don’t think it would pass the clawback because she would need to repay.  The state would be expecting the money in due time even with the cancel.

 

sorry I think I did a FBG no-no in that I asked a question that there isn’t a good answer too.

I don't know about that.  If the note matures in 10 years, I don't see how the state can try to accelerate payment.  They would probably have to try to defeat the note as a disguised gift.  To do that, they would look at the term of the note....  does GG have a reasonable chance of living the 10 years?  So maybe you set the term of the note to 5 years, for example.  

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Just now, ghostguy123 said:
1 hour ago, rascal said:

I wouldn't put it in one stock.  A dividend etf would be good such as VIG.

1.9% yield?

The thing with VIG is that it's companies that increase their dividend. Every year. For decades. It's a prudent, long-term investing strategy, particularly if you invest that 1.9% into more shares. If you want an income stream to pay living expenses, perhaps not the right choice.

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I bought some IBM. If their much ballyhooed Microsoft-like turnaround ever happens, we’re going to see more evidence of it in the next several quarters. Last quarter showed signs and they’re paying over 5% while I wait. They did a token raise to project stability, plus they’re involved in blockchain and just entered a quantum computing partnership with the University of Tokyo and some Japanese businesses (paging @ren hoek )so they’re definitely forward-looking.

Anyway, great stable dividend for those asking about that, which I needed to round out our portfolios and maybe they’ll give some growth with the above and redhat, etc. 

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1 hour ago, johnnycakes said:

I don't know about that.  If the note matures in 10 years, I don't see how the state can try to accelerate payment.  They would probably have to try to defeat the note as a disguised gift.  To do that, they would look at the term of the note....  does GG have a reasonable chance of living the 10 years?  So maybe you set the term of the note to 5 years, for example.  

I like the cut of your jib.

not reasonable for 10 years.  5 is pushing it.  Under over set at 1.5.

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2 minutes ago, The Ref said:

I like the cut of your jib.

not reasonable for 10 years.  5 is pushing it.  Under over set at 1.5.

According to the single life expectancy tables, the life expectancy of a 97 year-old is 3.6 years.  I would think if you set the note term to 3.6 years or less, they would have a hard time treating the note as a complete sham.  

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3 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

 

Dude. 

If better than a couple percent was out there, everyone would be in it. 

And if someone could live off of 35K in savings, everyone would do it. 

 

In her situation, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. Are you trying to get that 35K up into "can live out the rest of her days in comfort and ease" territory? Time to be realistic.

On the other hand, if she loses the entire 35K... is that really going to make much of a difference at this point? What's that going to cost her, really, six months of living expenses?

 

The good thing is with her timeframe... at least she has social security and it's not likely to go belly up while she's taking it, right?

And the house. Sounds like a reverse mortgage might be a consideration. Or a sale/leaseback with a family member to better keep the wealth in the family.

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1 hour ago, cosjobs said:

And the house. Sounds like a reverse mortgage might be a consideration. Or a sale/leaseback with a family member to better keep the wealth in the family.

Pretty sure a reverse mortgage wouldn't be a consideration unless she depleted her savings and got into credit card debt.  Neither of those are likely barring something crazy.  If something crazy were to happen then yeah I could see that as a possibility.

If need be in a few years I would certainly consider buying her condo at a discounted price and leasing to her.  

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5 hours ago, The Ref said:

I like the cut of your jib.

not reasonable for 10 years.  5 is pushing it.  Under over set at 1.5.

I think you are thinking way too hard on this. Do ATM cash withdrawals as if they are weekly living expenses. You use the cash and put money in your daughter’s account. It might take too long if GG doesn’t make it long but if you think she’s got a couple years it would be relatively easy and 0 chance of a clawback IMHO. No way they could say it wasn’t going to living expenses. Even do small checks ($100) for every holiday/Christmas. I think you could get to $15k pretty quickly, maybe a year. 

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14 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I think you are thinking way too hard on this. Do ATM cash withdrawals as if they are weekly living expenses. You use the cash and put money in your daughter’s account. It might take too long if GG doesn’t make it long but if you think she’s got a couple years it would be relatively easy and 0 chance of a clawback IMHO. No way they could say it wasn’t going to living expenses. Even do small checks ($100) for every holiday/Christmas. I think you could get to $15k pretty quickly, maybe a year. 

You would be surprised the level of audit these dudes do when you apply for long term assistance.  They make you explain “Excessive” cash withdrawals and birthday/Holliday checks.  It’s not like they make your return the $$  But they say you can’t account or gave away $15K so you are ineligible for assistance for the first three months as the avg cost is $5K a month.

 

its a brutal process.

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33 minutes ago, The Ref said:

You would be surprised the level of audit these dudes do when you apply for long term assistance.  They make you explain “Excessive” cash withdrawals and birthday/Holliday checks.  It’s not like they make your return the $$  But they say you can’t account or gave away $15K so you are ineligible for assistance for the first three months as the avg cost is $5K a month.

 

its a brutal process.

had no idea.  As I'll be in that same situation in the not too distant future, interested to hear how this plays out.

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