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Offical Korean War Thread (1 Viewer)

'datonn said:
'The Comedian said:
'datonn said:
Late to the party...but wouldn't it seem that Kim Jong-un having a little "accident" might do more than ANY negotiations with the lunatic might accomplish? Related to insuring that war doesn't break out on the Korean peninsula. I realize that some despot could certainly rise to power and take his place! But isn't that whole family kind of considered "demi-gods" by the North Korean people?! And if the United States could turn that fat-### into sulfur, might it not have the same effect as us dropping two atomic bombs on Japan in WWII related to the Japanese Emperor having to come out and admit that:

A. He is/was not a "god," and

B. He could not protect the Japanese people from an unimaginable amount of pain, suffering, and death if the war in the Pacific had dragged on for years more into the future.

:shrug: I'm just saying, if people revere that fat tub of goo as a god, and that god is basically blown into pieces smaller than your average-sized human tooth, might it cause millions of North Koreans to question what exactly they've been placing their "faith" in for the past ___ years?
Click to expand...
You're the guy that believes he jumped 50 ~16 feet when he was a 7 year old, right?
Click to expand...
Fixed. Though what does that have to do with anything related to this topic? You are The Comedian though...so I'm sure that type of material keeps you working 2-3 nights/week in powder blue tuxes down at airport bars. Let me guess...you just flew in from Pittsburgh, and BOY are your arms tired! ;)
Click to expand...
You tell 'em, Farret-Face!
 
'Charlie Steiner said:
'datonn said:
'The Comedian said:
'datonn said:
Late to the party...but wouldn't it seem that Kim Jong-un having a little "accident" might do more than ANY negotiations with the lunatic might accomplish? Related to insuring that war doesn't break out on the Korean peninsula. I realize that some despot could certainly rise to power and take his place! But isn't that whole family kind of considered "demi-gods" by the North Korean people?! And if the United States could turn that fat-### into sulfur, might it not have the same effect as us dropping two atomic bombs on Japan in WWII related to the Japanese Emperor having to come out and admit that:

A. He is/was not a "god," and

B. He could not protect the Japanese people from an unimaginable amount of pain, suffering, and death if the war in the Pacific had dragged on for years more into the future.

:shrug: I'm just saying, if people revere that fat tub of goo as a god, and that god is basically blown into pieces smaller than your average-sized human tooth, might it cause millions of North Koreans to question what exactly they've been placing their "faith" in for the past ___ years?
Click to expand...
You're the guy that believes he jumped 50 ~16 feet when he was a 7 year old, right?
Click to expand...
Fixed. Though what does that have to do with anything related to this topic? You are The Comedian though...so I'm sure that type of material keeps you working 2-3 nights/week in powder blue tuxes down at airport bars. Let me guess...you just flew in from Pittsburgh, and BOY are your arms tired! ;)
Click to expand...
You tell 'em, Farret-Face!
Click to expand...
Frank Burns eats worms
 
'johnnycakes said:
But I believe the quality of the spying is different between the Chinese and us. Our spying is primarily based upon national security interests. Theirs is more heavily tilted towards industrial espionage. That may be the best indicator right there of what each country's biggest priority is.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
 
'johnnycakes said:
'Charlie Steiner said:
You tell 'em, Farret-Face!
Click to expand...
Frank Burns eats worms
Click to expand...
Hut-nuh. Wasn't that a Lewis Black routine back in the day...talking about how people will unleash verbal tirades that would make George Carlin proud in even his foulest of moods as they are out on the freeways, practicing their road rage? Though as they lob obscenities at whomever was the reason for their losing their cool, they're doing so driving by at 40-70+ MPH. So all the person they are yelling at ever hears is "hut-nuh!!!"

 
'Fennis said:
'johnnycakes said:
But I believe the quality of the spying is different between the Chinese and us. Our spying is primarily based upon national security interests. Theirs is more heavily tilted towards industrial espionage. That may be the best indicator right there of what each country's biggest priority is.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
Very good posting indeed. As we're all starting to realize, economic security has probably MORE to do with the overall security of a nation than who is packing the biggest "member" in their pants. AKA who has the biggest guns, the best/fastest planes, the biggest navy, etc. Only one problem: Our 537 elected representatives don't yet seem to realize it. Which also goes for the Republicans, who want to gut social services while keeping the sacred cow (the "member" in our nation's Levis) from being touched. Who get scrutinized more harshly by me for talking the talk, but failing to walk the walk (whereas the Democrats don't do as much talking on those lines...so them not walking isn't quite as surprising or offensive).My previous question (before The Comedian decided to be a clown) still stands: would cutting off the head of the snake (Kim Jong-un) solve everyone's problem...including the North Korean people? He seems to have pretty similar priorities (the size of the "member" in his pants) as our elected officials do. But unlike in the United States, he is basically all-powerful as a ruler. Where no one person in the US government has nearly that kind of power.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'datonn said:
'Fennis said:
'johnnycakes said:
But I believe the quality of the spying is different between the Chinese and us. Our spying is primarily based upon national security interests. Theirs is more heavily tilted towards industrial espionage. That may be the best indicator right there of what each country's biggest priority is.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
Very good posting indeed. As we're all starting to realize, economic security has probably MORE to do with the overall security of a nation than who is packing the biggest "member" in their pants. AKA who has the biggest guns, the best/fastest planes, the biggest navy, etc. Only one problem: Our 537 elected representatives don't yet seem to realize it. Which also goes for the Republicans, who want to gut social services while keeping the sacred cow (the "member" in our nation's Levis) from being touched. Who get scrutinized more harshly by me for talking the talk, but failing to walk the walk (whereas the Democrats don't do as much talking on those lines...so them not walking isn't quite as offensive).My previous question (before The Comedian decided to be a clown) still stands: would cutting off the head of the snake (Kim Jong-un) solve everyone's problem...including the North Korean people? He seems to have pretty similar priorities (the size of the "member" in his pants) as our elected officials do. But unlike in the United States, he is basically all-powerful as a ruler. Where no one person in the US government has nearly that kind of power.
Click to expand...
it depends on what dictator would replace him.
 
'Fennis said:
'datonn said:
'Fennis said:
'johnnycakes said:
But I believe the quality of the spying is different between the Chinese and us. Our spying is primarily based upon national security interests. Theirs is more heavily tilted towards industrial espionage. That may be the best indicator right there of what each country's biggest priority is.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
Very good posting indeed. As we're all starting to realize, economic security has probably MORE to do with the overall security of a nation than who is packing the biggest "member" in their pants. AKA who has the biggest guns, the best/fastest planes, the biggest navy, etc. Only one problem: Our 537 elected representatives don't yet seem to realize it. Which also goes for the Republicans, who want to gut social services while keeping the sacred cow (the "member" in our nation's Levis) from being touched. Who get scrutinized more harshly by me for talking the talk, but failing to walk the walk (whereas the Democrats don't do as much talking on those lines...so them not walking isn't quite as offensive).My previous question (before The Comedian decided to be a clown) still stands: would cutting off the head of the snake (Kim Jong-un) solve everyone's problem...including the North Korean people? He seems to have pretty similar priorities (the size of the "member" in his pants) as our elected officials do. But unlike in the United States, he is basically all-powerful as a ruler. Where no one person in the US government has nearly that kind of power.
Click to expand...
it depends on what dictator would replace him.
Click to expand...
Yep. But isn't the whole premise that Kim Jong-un (and his father) were effectively "gods?" Or at minimum not mere "mortal" men? So if said leaders' sworn enemy can wipe them off the face of the Earth while barely spending a couple million and incurring zero casualties in the process of doing so, might it make your average North Korean citizen re-think their commitment toward their current form of government?Even if it got them to stop thinking of these clowns as "gods," it would be a giant step in the right direction. I'm just wondering how long you let the fly or mosquito buzz around your head before you send it to meet its maker? Do we wait until Kim Jong-un launches missiles at South Korea and Japan (or the United States)? Do we wait until tens/hundreds of thousands of troops poor across the demilitarized zone into South Korea? Once the bullets start flying, it'll be next to impossible to keep casualties and financial investments in military action to a minimum. But send one bomber or drone over North Korea to turn Kim Jong-un's compound into a large crater, and it might save thousands of lives. Not to mention billions more dollars our nation cannot afford to spend on nation building and serving as the planet's police force.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'datonn said:
'The Comedian said:
'datonn said:
Late to the party...but wouldn't it seem that Kim Jong-un having a little "accident" might do more than ANY negotiations with the lunatic might accomplish? Related to insuring that war doesn't break out on the Korean peninsula. I realize that some despot could certainly rise to power and take his place! But isn't that whole family kind of considered "demi-gods" by the North Korean people?! And if the United States could turn that fat-### into sulfur, might it not have the same effect as us dropping two atomic bombs on Japan in WWII related to the Japanese Emperor having to come out and admit that:

A. He is/was not a "god," and

B. He could not protect the Japanese people from an unimaginable amount of pain, suffering, and death if the war in the Pacific had dragged on for years more into the future.

:shrug: I'm just saying, if people revere that fat tub of goo as a god, and that god is basically blown into pieces smaller than your average-sized human tooth, might it cause millions of North Koreans to question what exactly they've been placing their "faith" in for the past ___ years?
Click to expand...
You're the guy that believes he jumped 50 ~16 feet when he was a 7 year old, right?
Click to expand...
Fixed. Though what does that have to do with anything related to this topic? You are The Comedian though...so I'm sure that type of material keeps you working 2-3 nights/week in powder blue tuxes down at airport bars. Let me guess...you just flew in from Pittsburgh, and BOY are your arms tired! ;)
Click to expand...
Wasn't making a joke, was bemused at the irony at you thinking of ways to expose the silly idea that KJU as a "god" when you believe you used to be a superhuman jumper and that your TV is haunted.
 
'The Comedian said:
Wasn't making a joke, was bemused at the irony at you thinking of ways to expose the silly idea that KJU as a "god" when you believe you used to be a superhuman jumper and that your TV is haunted.
Click to expand...
What the heck are you talking about? Seriously. Superhuman jumper? Haunted TV? :unsure: And why on God's earth would you choose to bring it up in a thread that is discussing North Korea? Or how a couple a-holes bring it up in FFA threads about any and every other topic under the Sun. Because they think they have a shred of a clue about what they are talking about? Or because they think it's funny...a joke.On the "jumping" thing...I had an experience as a child that I could not explain (and cannot, to this day). I had the scuffed-up jeans from the experience to prove it...as I remember my first thought was my mom was going to be mad that I got a good pair of pants damaged. With my second thought being "how the heck did I just do that?" And then my dad and my SIL describing seemingly crazy experiences involving "floating" down stairs in their childhood. The only common thread, other than a family connection? Our experiences occurring when we were kids and "didn't know" that what we just experienced was apparently physically impossible.

And truthfully, I have absolutely no clue whatsoever what you're talking about related to a "haunted TV." :confused: So if you wouldn't mind, could we talk about North Korea now? Or are you gonna be an ###-clown, like a few of the other trolls in the FFA who like to rip a fart and giggle every time conversations about things that don't make sense to them start to make it a little uncomfortable living inside their bubble?

 
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This administration, as with the middle east, has to being doing the least with North Korea since before Clinton.

The funny thing is Obama made such grand promises to accomplish what Clinton and Bush Jr. had not with regard to Iran, Palestine an North Korea. It all sounded so good. Is the president out to lunch?

 
So - is the US provoking a war by sending fighter planes and now a guided missile destroyer to the region?

Or, are they giving NK wiggle room to "make the US back down"?

Seems as though if we ignore the bluster from NK - we run the risk that they escalate things to the point where it can't be ignored. So, by adding weapons to the region we give the NKs an opportunity to save face without escalating things further. Kim Jong Un may need to look tough at home to keep the military in line - and this allows him to look tough without any crazy stuff happening.

:shrug: Who knows?

 
Sinn Fein said:
So - is the US provoking a war by sending fighter planes and now a guided missile destroyer to the region?

Or, are they giving NK wiggle room to "make the US back down"?

Seems as though if we ignore the bluster from NK - we run the risk that they escalate things to the point where it can't be ignored. So, by adding weapons to the region we give the NKs an opportunity to save face without escalating things further. Kim Jong Un may need to look tough at home to keep the military in line - and this allows him to look tough without any crazy stuff happening.

:shrug: Who knows?
Click to expand...
Did the USA gave the USSR "room to back down" when it secretly moved missiles onto the Soviet border which led to the Cubamn missile crisis?

No.

The curious thing here is that there is absolutely no apparent goal in what NK is doing in this instance - what do they want, lesser sanctions, more talks, money, what? None of the above apparently.

Here's my question - why don't we just have peace treaty talks and invite the Chinese?

 
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I don't see how this ever gets resolved (which begs the question: do the powers that be actually WANT it resolved... the US, China, S Korea, Japan - as long as it's just talk, perhaps having an incarcerated population to the North is preferable to some other outcome) without taking out the leader, and perhaps fomenting some type of resistance / overthrow of the government.

The N Korean people are hardly our enemy for one. Would it be the compassionate thing to do in not killing scores of innocents to get their leader to "back down" - secondly, what are we going to do, bomb them INTO the 19th century?

 
Koya said:
I don't see how this ever gets resolved (which begs the question: do the powers that be actually WANT it resolved... the US, China, S Korea, Japan - as long as it's just talk, perhaps having an incarcerated population to the North is preferable to some other outcome) without taking out the leader, and perhaps fomenting some type of resistance / overthrow of the government.

The N Korean people are hardly our enemy for one. Would it be the compassionate thing to do in not killing scores of innocents to get their leader to "back down" - secondly, what are we going to do, bomb them INTO the 19th century?
Click to expand...
This is one weird instance where successfully "liberating" a people either peacefully or by force seems worse to those in power than leaving them suffering and a potential tinderbox.

How hard core Stalinist communists in NK see what is now a feudal royalty as somehow "marxist-cosialist" is beyond me. There is no reality at work here.

The nightmare scenario is that the government is overthrown and total chaos breaks into China and South Korea in teh form of millions of starved zombie-like creatures literally running across the borders.

 
timschochet said:
'Fennis said:
"The anti-missile issue has a direct bearing on global and regional balance and stability. It also concerns mutual strategic interests between countries," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong LeiThey strongly condemn anti-missile deployments in South Korea. And you guys act think they will be supportive of an invasion/bombing of North Korea. There is no chance. Every country protects their interests and China is no different. The US attacking an Asian country, espeically a nominal ally, is the farthest things from Chinese interests.
Click to expand...
If North Korea actually attacks South Korea, China's attitude will change. But until that extremely unlikely event, China will be vocally on the side of North Korea.But this is all a show anyhow. China will never let North Korea actually attack. And we won't do anything unless there is an attack. Nothing will come of any of this.
Click to expand...
Don't agree with you here Tim. NK hasn't exactly been listening to China over the past couple years. China has been coming down more and more on NK in that time.

My concern is that (as a prior person posted) NK has pushed the envelope on threats where they have limited non-military options left. Whether it will be another ship attack, island bombing or some other form of physical aggression, its likely coming. It won't come until the joint military episode is done and the U.S. presence is reduced. When it happens, the **** is really going to hit the fan as the South Korean president has already indicated she will not stand for such aggression. Coupled with the egg which she has had on her face in the beginning of her term and you're looking at a strong response from SK. Once that happens, its not difficult to see NK escalating things.

 
Sinn Fein said:
So - is the US provoking a war by sending fighter planes and now a guided missile destroyer to the region?

Or, are they giving NK wiggle room to "make the US back down"?

Seems as though if we ignore the bluster from NK - we run the risk that they escalate things to the point where it can't be ignored. So, by adding weapons to the region we give the NKs an opportunity to save face without escalating things further. Kim Jong Un may need to look tough at home to keep the military in line - and this allows him to look tough without any crazy stuff happening.

:shrug: Who knows?
Click to expand...
I think you have this backwards. If NK overtly backs down, they lose face.

I think that the US and SK feel the need to show resolve in light of the fact that they have a very young, unknown NK leader who is still shoring up his own political support and trying to establish domestic credibility. This is for NK leadership consumption. I don't think we want to put into Kim III's mind that he can just clear his throat and have us jump out of the way, so we're trying to set a precedent.

China loves to have NK as a distraction for others in the region (it keeps heat off of China and its expanding military and political interests, territorial disputes, trade practices, etc.) but the last thing China wants is a full blown shooting war on its doorstep, much less one with nukes potentially involved. NK simply won't win a war against SK without China's help, and so a war not only carries with it the immediate problems of danger/disruption to China's interests, but also a challenge to China's credibility as an ally to NK and the potential consequence of a unified Korean democratic republic which is allied with the US right next door.

The bottom line is that I'm sure China is working the phones big time to settle down Kim and his regime.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

That article pretty much sums up my view of this situation. There's a really good reason why the US has put up with North Korea's brinksmanship for the past few decades. North Korea can't win an actual war, but they can certainly make our victory a Phyrric one.
Click to expand...
To bring up a liberal point of view it has also been extremely profitable to the military industrial complex as it has been an additional justification to build missiles, subs and planes here not to mention mucho arms sales to South Korea and neighbors like Japan and the Phillipines.

Another issue is that China until recently was still very much communist and devoted to NK out of old political/ideological reasons, that has only recently changed.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
Fired one of them where, the middle of the Pacific Ocean?

Or anywhere near California or Hawaii or Alaska?
Click to expand...
North Korea has zero ability to get nuke anywhere near the US.
Click to expand...
Right, that's the presumption, not really stated there in the article.

Also, let's not forget Japan, Seoul.... and the Taepodong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taepodong-2

 
Sinn Fein said:
Slapdash said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
I would expect any US president to respond in-kind to a nuclear attack on us or our allies.
Click to expand...
I would hope cooler heads prevail imo.
Click to expand...
I am about as anti-war as it comes but I don't see what else we would do in that situation. Please let me know what you think would happen.

 
Slapdash said:
Sinn Fein said:
Slapdash said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
I would expect any US president to respond in-kind to a nuclear attack on us or our allies.
Click to expand...
I would hope cooler heads prevail imo.
Click to expand...
I am about as anti-war as it comes but I don't see what else we would do in that situation. Please let me know what you think would happen.
Click to expand...
I feel like this should be under the thread title, "What Would George W. Bush" do?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Slapdash said:
Sinn Fein said:
Slapdash said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
I would expect any US president to respond in-kind to a nuclear attack on us or our allies.
Click to expand...
I would hope cooler heads prevail imo.
Click to expand...
I am about as anti-war as it comes but I don't see what else we would do in that situation. Please let me know what you think would happen.
Click to expand...
I feel like this should be under the thread title, "What Would George W. Bush" do?
Click to expand...
We're going on Dubya's fourth term by my count. Particularly in the foreign policy area.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
Fired one of them where, the middle of the Pacific Ocean?

Or anywhere near California or Hawaii or Alaska?
Click to expand...
North Korea has zero ability to get nuke anywhere near the US.
Click to expand...
We check container ships when they are offloaded, but what stops them from loading nukes onto ships, piloting them to LA/NYC/SD/Miami and coordinating detination in harbor?

 
Slapdash said:
Sinn Fein said:
Slapdash said:
Novice2 said:
If North Korea, which has perhaps 5 to 10 rudimentary nukes, fired one or more of them, disbelief would promptly yield to mayhem.... No U.S. president would kill 10 million innocents in North Korea
Click to expand...
I would expect any US president to respond in-kind to a nuclear attack on us or our allies.
Click to expand...
I would hope cooler heads prevail imo.
Click to expand...
I am about as anti-war as it comes but I don't see what else we would do in that situation. Please let me know what you think would happen.
Click to expand...
We would continue to methodically take out their military capability. The nuclear threat is no deterrent if the generals in command are not worried about losing civilian life. Killing a bunch of North Koreans just for revenge does not solve the underlying issue - stopping the military aggression. In Japan, when we used nuclear weapons, the leadership wanted to save their civilians - I don't get the sense that the North Koreans share that same sensibility - only self-preservation for the leadership.

The Korean War will end with South Korea assuming control of the entire peninsula. That is the primary reason NK keeps things in their pants for the most part. The military leaders like being in control.

 
Ilov80s said:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE93214C20130403?irpc=932

So North Korea has informed the US govt that they have ratified strikes against the US, including nuclear attacks.
Click to expand...
Seems odd that you formally announce that you are going to strike a country with a nuclear weapon. Kind of like Al Qaeda saying "Dear America, tomorrow morning we are going to hijack your planes and crash them into buildings".

Obviously he's fishing for something, not sure what though.

 
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