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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (6 Viewers)

IvanKaramazov said:
GroveDiesel said:
I'm starting to feel like Byrd is going to play this next week. The secondary has actually been pretty darn good without him. A few lapses here and there, but still pretty good. And he's either going to want to be part of what is going on, or he's going to see his value slide a bit as the Buffalo defense plays just fine without him.

If he's not enticed to take part in what Pettine is doing out there right now, then I'd have to seriously question his heart.

When Gilmore gets back...wow. This defense could be really good by year end.

Now if Marcel Dareus just stops being a bum...
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Honestly, I don't blame Byrd at all for being pissed with the organization. I don't understand why the Bills seem so averse to paying the guy.
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Maybe because he has plantar fasciitis that somehow hasn't healed in a year? Or because they offered to make him the 3rd highest safety in the league and his agent wouldn't even negotiate unless their offer made him the highest paid? Maybe because Buffalo was moving to a defensive system where the safety wasn't as important?

 
Re-watching the game and here are some thoughts:

1) There were huge running lanes on the right side of the line all day. The left was a mixed bag, but mostly Brown got beaten like a speed bag all day.

2) EJ made some very good reads. Overall, last seek was a better week though. Manuel missed some throws that could have been big plays.

3) The Bills really need to stop throwing screens to Scott Chandler. I don't get it. They threw 2 or 3 of them and they all went nowhere. Chandler has been awful in general.

4) The Bills were lucky that Can missed quite a few deep throws because guys were open. They need Byrd.

5) Mario was dominant. He had 3 or 4 QB pressures in addition to his 4.5 sacks including one where he got an arm around Newton despite being held by the RT. I saw ProFootballFocus give him a pretty lousy grade this week for a guy with 4.5 sacks. Their reason was they said Mario lost contain in the run game a bunch. I didn't see that at all. It was clear the Bills were asking Mario to spy Can, especially on any option looks and that's exactly what he did. It wasn't his job to hold contain on those plays. And he still made several tackles or assists against Tolbert and Williams. So that logic by PFF doesn't fly with me. Cam was boxed up all day because of Mario.

 
Interesting stat here (Colin Brown still sucks, but at least it isn't at $7M a year)

Tennessee Titans: While the Titans duo of new guards has been helpful in the run game, they have made their fair share of mistakes in pass protection. Rookie Chance Warmack has an 89.9 Pass Blocking Efficiency which is second-worst in the league for all guards, while Andy Levitre is third-worst at 90.4.
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(Just to be totally fair, Colin Brown has been PFF's worst graded guard in the league both weeks so far by a fair margin. So yeah, definitely a problem. I still say where the Bills screwed up wasn't in not paying Levitre but in letting Rinehart go too). They actually need Legurski to get healthy.

 
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Curious what Bills fans think about Spiller being out of the game on the game ending drive. (He was in for a few plays but Fjax started the drive and was the back that was in when they got to the redzone). As a Spiller owner, I'm frustrated that in seemingly critical junctures of the game and obvious passing downs that he's not in the game. But I'm interested to see a Bills fan's perspective on leaving your most talented playmaker on the bench in these moments. Is Fjax just the master of the 2 minute offense?

 
chinawildman said:
Curious what Bills fans think about Spiller being out of the game on the game ending drive. (He was in for a few plays but Fjax started the drive and was the back that was in when they got to the redzone). As a Spiller owner, I'm frustrated that in seemingly critical junctures of the game and obvious passing downs that he's not in the game. But I'm interested to see a Bills fan's perspective on leaving your most talented playmaker on the bench in these moments. Is Fjax just the master of the 2 minute offense?
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I would expect it to continue. FJ is better in pass protection, better at short yardage, won't get winded, better leader (team captian) and is a smarter football player (purposley dropping a pass to conserve time).

 
OldMilwaukee said:
chinawildman said:
Curious what Bills fans think about Spiller being out of the game on the game ending drive. (He was in for a few plays but Fjax started the drive and was the back that was in when they got to the redzone). As a Spiller owner, I'm frustrated that in seemingly critical junctures of the game and obvious passing downs that he's not in the game. But I'm interested to see a Bills fan's perspective on leaving your most talented playmaker on the bench in these moments. Is Fjax just the master of the 2 minute offense?
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I would expect it to continue. FJ is better in pass protection, better at short yardage, won't get winded, better leader (team captian) and is a smarter football player (purposley dropping a pass to conserve time).
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That pretty much nails it.

 
Legursky is back participating in practice to at least some extent. That's good.

Gilmore and Goodwin are working with trainers in the side. Both will still be out this week. I believe Gilmore is supposed to get an updated timeframe this week from his doctor.

Byrd is practicing, but is part of the scout team during team drills? I have no idea what to make of that other than it seeming to be a bad sign.

 
chinawildman said:
Curious what Bills fans think about Spiller being out of the game on the game ending drive. (He was in for a few plays but Fjax started the drive and was the back that was in when they got to the redzone). As a Spiller owner, I'm frustrated that in seemingly critical junctures of the game and obvious passing downs that he's not in the game. But I'm interested to see a Bills fan's perspective on leaving your most talented playmaker on the bench in these moments. Is Fjax just the master of the 2 minute offense?
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IMO, Jackson deserves as much credit as EJ got for marching the team down the field at the end. I don't care which back is on the field if they are going to go right down the field like that in a crucial situation. Spiller is the better back, no doubt, but Fred has necessary qualities (noted above by other posters) that will keep him on the field in those 2-minute situations. And I can't complain about the results...

 
If I were a Spiller owner, I'd be concerned that Hackett doesn't seem to be using him very creatively. Gailey was constantly getting him the ball in space through screen plays, lining him up at WR, etc., but I don't recall seeing much of that over the first two games this season.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
If I were a Spiller owner, I'd be concerned that Hackett doesn't seem to be using him very creatively. Gailey was constantly getting him the ball in space through screen plays, lining him up at WR, etc., but I don't recall seeing much of that over the first two games this season.
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Yes, I've noticed this as well... he tends to have his best plays on draws and screens, but they've been running alot of off tackle, lead toss power running with him which doesn't really suit his game. I want to see more counters and designed cutbacks to allow him to use his jump cut and ability to get to the edge. The fact that he's losing alot of passing downs to Fjax isn't helping either.

The bills have played 2 very stout run Ds and haven't been in a shootout yet, so I think the best still yet to come for Spiller this season.

 
I was really surprised that Spiller wasn't on the field for that last drive, even as a receiver or something as I'm sure he would have drawn plenty of attention from the defense.

Fred Jackson is awesome but when you need to go down the field in a hurry, I expected to see the faster player get some touches out in space.

 
So the talk all around the league is how ridiculously fast the Eagles run plays and how nobody has seen anything like it, how defenses can't even prepare for the pace etc. etc.

Well, through 2 weeks, at a play every 21.8 seconds, nobody is running at a faster pace on offense than the Buffalo Bills.

 
One more nice stat from PFF:

Cordy Glenn is one of just 2 OTs that hasn't given up even one QB pressure so far. That's pretty impressive with the guys he's gone up against. He's fast become a dominant pass blocker.

 
Yet another stout front 7 & team with no WR's this week (and Baltimore & Cleveland after that).

Not so good for Spiller owners but probably a good thing for the Bills as long as their secondary is banged up.

 
I'm seeing a lot of the heads picking the Jets this week. What's everyone here think? I'll actually be a bit surprised if they lose this one. I was more worried going into last week's game than this one.

 
I don't like how the Jets got ten days to game-plan. Their D will be very tough for EJ, We need our playmakers Spiller and Stevie to keep up and we need to stop the run, No reason that Powell, or Ivory should have success running. Kyle Williams is vastly over-rated as a run defender. He and Dareus need to step-up big today.

 
OC Zed said:
When will the injuries ever end? Every year the same thing.
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They're in serious trouble without Gilmore, Bryd, and McKelvin. My god, they just made a rookie second round pick and a cast of average WRs look like Aaron Rodgers and the ### #### Packers.

 
If it wasn't for those injuries this would be a solid 10 out of 10 as far as embarrassing losses go. +2 in turnovers, the other teams commits a million penalties and you lose to a bad team in not all that dramatic fashion. Yikes. I guess we are who they thought we were.

 
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OC Zed said:
When will the injuries ever end? Every year the same thing.
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This is my biggest concern. I do think Hackett has been awful and needs to be replaced at the end of the year (did Bills fans think that someone could use Spiller WORSE than Bailey!?), but the injuries have been murder.

The Bills were missing Byrd, Gilmore and McKelvin and throw in Ron Brooks. So 3/4 of the starting secondary plus the guy who was supposed to be the nickel corner. Then they lose Dareus. And I just read that Mario was spotted hobbling badly in the locker room.

They have also been without their starting LG which has left them starting the worst guard in the league. Uribik then also got hurt and missed some time today. Spiller got hurt, Goodwin has been out, Stevie hurt his wrist. I mean, I know today was awful, but they just lose by a TD to a division opponent with all of those injuries.

We knew that it would talk time to build depth. A team without depth can't succeed when they have key injuries. And Buffalo has had an ungodly amount of injuries and to key players. It's downright unfair.

 
And seriously, just please cut Colin Brown and Justin Rogers. There HAS to be better players than that out there. Bring back Terrence McGee for crying out loud.

 
I went into this game cautiously confident, but wow. I've watched every Bills game and nearly every UB football game in the past decade, and today ranks right up there among the most abysmal team performances I've ever seen.

The Bills were beaten soundly in every facet of the game today, against an average - at best - Jets team. I tend to think the Jets are better that most pundits give them credit for, but they're certainly not a "good" team. This was the worst performance from the normally-solid O-line in years. Colin Brown is simply awful, and even Cordy Glenn looked bad. EJ played like a scared rookie for the entire game.

Rogers was horrid, but the D-line was getting very little push and the LBs are effectively invisible other than an occasional play by Alonso. They were soundly outcoached as well. It took three weeks, but the Jets finally keyed in on the Bills offensive gameplan and totally shut it down - and Hackett had no answers. Where is the creative, innovative offense that everyone talked about? Hint: running off-tackle out of the shotgun every other play isn't creative. The defense gave up a number of third-and-longs, and my god will someone please cover a WR down the field? Credit to the Jets, Geno did make some very solid deep throws. Rogers was in decent position on the late Holmes TD, I think, but the ball was on the money and Holmes made a great play on it.

But what really disappoints me is that this game was there for the taking. 20 (!) penalties, 2 turnovers deep in their own territory, 2 wasted challenges/timeouts. The Jets did their best to give the game away. But the Bills were so unprepared and played so poorly that they couldn't do it.

To me, this was a good barometer game. A division game, on the road, against an opponent who I had anticipated was on the Bills level. And it was a total tire fire. If the Jets were better, this could've been a 30-point blowout.

 
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Agree with everything Tasker said.

Also, I know it's just his third pro game, but I'm getting concerned about EJ's lack of field awareness. It seems like every other play he fails to see an open receiver, or simply doesn't throw the ball because the WR isn't wide open. The later is a confidence issue that can work itself out, but the former - the lack of vision - is really troubling.

I still think he can be a very good QB, but I'm not as optimistic as I was after week 2.

 
What we saw from EJ was very worrisome.

Not seeing a defender and Throwing an INT is one thing.

But too many times he did not throw at all. Or threw it way off target so the WR had no chance.

Will want to watch it again, I know the line did poorly and he had some pressure.

 
And on the topic of the lack of creativity on offense, say what you will about Gailey, but he figured out how to get Spiller the ball in space. I don't recall the Bills running a single screen play yesterday. Fitz had his limitations and the Bills had to stay within those bounds, which ultimately doomed them, but at least the offense did their best to get the ball into the hands of their playmakers in good spots. If anyone watches the game again, can you just document for me every time Spiller touched the ball on a play-by-play basis? I would be interested in that.

 
The Duff Man said:
What we saw from EJ was very worrisome.

Not seeing a defender and Throwing an INT is one thing.

But too many times he did not throw at all. Or threw it way off target so the WR had no chance.

Will want to watch it again, I know the line did poorly and he had some pressure.
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I noticed a number of times that EJ was rattled by any sort of contact. And I mean any contact whatsoever. I recall one play (I had commented on it to my dad at the time) where EJ dropped back and stepped up in the pocket well. The Jets RE had gotten around LT Glenn, but Glenn still had position. The RE got an arm on EJ...nothing near enough to bring him down, just a flailing arm. It's like a gun went off, and EJ looked panicked and started to take off laterally, where he promptly got sacked by someone else.

That was a common theme from what I saw. Any contact or a collapsed pocket, and he panicked. Maybe it's because he was getting hit a lot more than weeks 1-2? Per the radio this AM, EJ was HIT on 1/3 of all of his dropbacks yesterday. Not just hurried, not pressured, but hit. If you've got a rookie getting hit that often, he's bound to get rattled. His footwork suffered. He wasn't setting, wasn't stepping into the throws, and that's why his throws sailed out of bounds or went into the dirt far too often.

I won't put all of that on EJ, that's on everyone. EJ needs to stand in there and not be afraid to take a hit, and fix those sloppy mechanics. The o-line, particularly the left side, need to provide better protection. And the coaches need to adapt to keep him from getting hit so often.

 
What frustrated me the most was on any crucial play when the Bills needed a first down, like 3rd and 7 in the Jets end of the field, the Jets would send everyone on a blitz. Manuel seemingly had no receivers running intermediate routes and every throw seemed to be a vertical route that EJ had to throw too soon.

 
the Bills receivers were blanketed by the Jets through most of the game. the line broke down repeatedly as well. EJ didn't play well either, but it certainly seemed like the Jets defense dominated in all phases to me.

 
The offense is just way too predictable. No RB screens, no TE over the middle, same basic formation every freaking snap and they kept trying to run into the pile despite not running a FB out there

 
Oh, and Justin Rogers gave up 246 yards yesterday. Plus a DPI. That guy is pretty much single handedly destroying the defense.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Oh, and Justin Rogers gave up 246 yards yesterday. Plus a DPI. That guy is pretty much single handedly destroying the defense.
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Brings back memories of Chris Watson.

I've been harping on this ad nauseum, but there is no good reason why the front office let the CBs and OL go unaddressed this off-season despite the loss in personnel. But instead they stockpiled ridiculous depth at WR and safety. Oh, and they even burned a draft pick on a ####ing kicker (who hasn't even been active yet).

Chickens are coming home to roost and it isn't even Week 4 yet.

 
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They might scale back blitzing this weak, even though they got limited if any pressure yesterday. Look for them to drop coverage this week and be picked apart by Flacco.

I did read McGee had a tryout with Miami this morning, They should have been looking for CB help anywhere after the Gilmore injury. They seem content with Adams and Burton on the practice squad.

If last week showed us anything with T-Rich being traded for a first, surely Byrd on a rental contract to a good team could net us a third CB that we'd play as a two.

 
If they can get ANYTHING for Byrd they should take it. He wont play much this year and will be gone. I would rather not tag him again and deal with this nonsense.

 
The contending teams won't offer much because it's a rental. I wish it was like hockey. Doesn't help that Byrd is hurt. Buffalo needs him back this week, he traveled last week and was questionable. Maybe he can have a couple good games before the deadline and the Bills can at least get a pick out of it. Would allow Aaron Williams to move over to keep Justin Rogers comfortable on bench.

 
Gottabesweet said:
Buffalo needs him back this week, he traveled last week and was questionable. Maybe he can have a couple good games before the deadline and the Bills can at least get a pick out of it. Would allow Aaron Williams to move over to keep Justin Rogers comfortable on bench.
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That would be a nice scenario.

 
Ok, I'll try to be optimistic here. While I agree with everything above (especially Tasker's take on EJ), keep in mind a few things -

Geno Smith is much better than advertised in preseason. I drafted the guy in a dynasty league and dropped him before week 1 because of how crappy he looked in preseason. Remember when he gave up a safety by stepping out of his own endzone? I don't know what happened, but he got his crap together quick. He's benefiting from a solid o-line that gives him plenty of time to make reads. While the Bills secondary is an injury plagued disaster, give Geno credit: he made some extremely accurate deep throws, the kind of throws we wish EJ could make if he had time.

Yet, despite Geno being good, 3/4ths of our starting secondary injured, and Spiller still going nowhere, the game was 20-27, not a blowout at all.

 
Calm down on EJ people. It's week 3 of his rookie year. Don't get too high, don't get too low on the kid. This is a year for development.

 
flysack said:
Ok, I'll try to be optimistic here. While I agree with everything above (especially Tasker's take on EJ), keep in mind a few things -

Geno Smith is much better than advertised in preseason. I drafted the guy in a dynasty league and dropped him before week 1 because of how crappy he looked in preseason. Remember when he gave up a safety by stepping out of his own endzone? I don't know what happened, but he got his crap together quick. He's benefiting from a solid o-line that gives him plenty of time to make reads. While the Bills secondary is an injury plagued disaster, give Geno credit: he made some extremely accurate deep throws, the kind of throws we wish EJ could make if he had time.

Yet, despite Geno being good, 3/4ths of our starting secondary injured, and Spiller still going nowhere, the game was 20-27, not a blowout at all.
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The Jets had a million penalties & Rex wasted his challenges which would've come in handy. And we were +2 in turnovers. They basically did everything they could to give us the game. So I'm not really feeling the "everything went wrong and it was still close" angle even though the secondary is a mess.

JayJay328 said:
Calm down on EJ people. It's week 3 of his rookie year. Don't get too high, don't get too low on the kid. This is a year for development.
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Yah it's just easier said than done when you haven't had a good QB in 18 years. He's the only reason to watch the games this year.

 
Bills_Fan11 said:
flysack said:
Ok, I'll try to be optimistic here. While I agree with everything above (especially Tasker's take on EJ), keep in mind a few things -

Geno Smith is much better than advertised in preseason. I drafted the guy in a dynasty league and dropped him before week 1 because of how crappy he looked in preseason. Remember when he gave up a safety by stepping out of his own endzone? I don't know what happened, but he got his crap together quick. He's benefiting from a solid o-line that gives him plenty of time to make reads. While the Bills secondary is an injury plagued disaster, give Geno credit: he made some extremely accurate deep throws, the kind of throws we wish EJ could make if he had time.

Yet, despite Geno being good, 3/4ths of our starting secondary injured, and Spiller still going nowhere, the game was 20-27, not a blowout at all.
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The Jets had a million penalties & Rex wasted his challenges which would've come in handy. And we were +2 in turnovers. They basically did everything they could to give us the game. So I'm not really feeling the "everything went wrong and it was still close" angle even though the secondary is a mess.

JayJay328 said:
Calm down on EJ people. It's week 3 of his rookie year. Don't get too high, don't get too low on the kid. This is a year for development.
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Yah it's just easier said than done when you haven't had a good QB in 18 years. He's the only reason to watch the games this year.
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To be fair, you can't dismiss the penalties on the Jets as something they didn't earn. The reason they got those penalties is because they were committing them. Frankly, there were a ton of offensive holds (just watch the Dareus got held by Mangold on Smith's TD run) and Graham and Woods were getting mugged downfield all game with no calls. So to act like the the game wasn't close because the penalties somehow weren't relevant is unfair.

 
Just to get this on record in this thread, Jairus Byrd has now said that he won't play until he is 100% and that it's his decision.

In that same conversation he said that he didn't like watching "them" struggle out there. Seems like a subconscious admission that he doesn't view himself as part of the team anymore.

 
What a surprise, Byrd still doesn't think he's 100%. Just stick the guy on IR already and end the charade.

McKelvin out too this week. Going to be ugly going up against one of the best deep ball throwers and deep ball runners today.

 
Game Time said:
Can any homers here explain why Spiller is not involved in the passing game at all???
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Thats a great question.

Spiller did some of his finest work in the screen game last season. He is one of the most deadly players in the league getting the ball in space. Overall, I've been pretty happy with what Marrone and Hackett have done but Spiller's involvement in the passing game has me scratching my head. Hell, the screen game has been almost non-existent this season. I haven't really heard the coaches address this so don't know why

 
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