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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (4 Viewers)

Not if he hauls in 1000 yards and 10 TDs next year. Which is very possible. 
It's also very possible that he doesn't. Either way, his salary is his salary, and I didn't say it's "high" or "very high", I said "pretty high". Is that really controversial to say, lol? I'm glad they have 1 more year, the trade wouldn't have made sense without it.

 
4 million cheaper than Watkins' would have been (I think). 

Wasn't Watkin's 5th year option worth 12 million as a top 10 pick?

Benjamin's is 8mil and change.

They have very comparable stats, and that's with Benjamin missing all of 2015. 

 
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4 million cheaper than Watkins' would have been (I think). 

Wasn't Watkin's 5th year option worth 12 million as a top 10 pick?

Benjamin's is 8mil and change.

They have very comparable stats, and that's with Benjamin missing all of 2015. 
I've seen $13M as the projected number for what Sammy's option would have been.

 
I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams let Watkins walk too instead of paying him 13 million for next year. What, exactly, has he done for them? The guy has been outplayed by a rookie 3rd round draft pick. 

 
I didn't know this -

"The third-round pick acquired by Carolina was the one Buffalo added along with Matthews in a trade with Philadelphia. The seventh-round pick sent to Carolina was acquired by Buffalo in a trade that sent backup quarterback Cardale Jones to the Los Angeles Chargers in July."

So we got KB for Cardale Jones and half a Darby trade? 

Who wouldn't call that a win?

 
flysack said:
I didn't know this -

"The third-round pick acquired by Carolina was the one Buffalo added along with Matthews in a trade with Philadelphia. The seventh-round pick sent to Carolina was acquired by Buffalo in a trade that sent backup quarterback Cardale Jones to the Los Angeles Chargers in July."

So we got KB for Cardale Jones and half a Darby trade? 

Who wouldn't call that a win?
Actually, I read that the 3rd rounder was Buffalo's own. But don't forget that Jordan Mathews was in that trade.

If you count the 3rds as close to a wash, it basically comes out to:

Darby and Cardale Jones for

Jordan Mathews and Kelvin Benjamin

 
flysack said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams let Watkins walk too instead of paying him 13 million for next year. What, exactly, has he done for them? The guy has been outplayed by a rookie 3rd round draft pick. 
Only option Rams have is tagging Watkins. Since the Bills didn't pick up Watkins's option, he is a free agent after this year.

 
Let's not forget that Darby is a pretty good football player, he just got hurt. Matthews has done nothing, so it's going to come down to what Benjamin does.

These deals seem a bit strange but I think they honestly felt this would be a rebuilding year (as did pretty much everyone), and since they had soured on Sammy and knew they weren't bringing him back that deal made a lot of sense. Now that they are doing better than expected, they decided that they need a decent WR if they are going to compete, so this deal also makes sense.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
That's fine when you look at it like that, but I'm leery of KB's character. I have to defer to McDermot on that, since he know's KB personally, but the injuries, coming into camp overweight, lack of production lately make me wonder if his heart is really into it.
The injuries aren't anything character related. Being overweight is something that I immediately thought of as well. At least he got into shape this year, but he never should have ballooned up like that.

The lack of production isn't something I would knock him for. I didn't think the Panthers offense was good even in their SB year. They just aren't a very explosive offense. This year all they're doing is little dink and dunk passes. Cam has a rocket arm and they don't throw it down the field. They draft McCaffrey who was supposed to open their offense up, but all they did was make it even more of a short passing game. 

From what I'm reading from the PC by Carolina GM, they traded Benjamin because they wanted more speed on the field. So I would imagine they want to stretch the field more. They felt that Funchess and Benjamin are both big, physical WRs so having both on the field didn't make sense for them. I understand the thought process, but I don't understand how it took them 8 weeks to figure this out. Benjamin and Funchess were never burners. It seems as though they expected a lot more of their offense so now they're going to make some radical changes to try to fix it in season.

I'm surprised the Bills made this move. I was expecting nothing to happen, and if any moves were to be made I expected them to be low profile acquisitions only. 

The Bills just drafted Zay Jones, so he isn't going anywhere. We have Benjamin through 2018 at the least. So does that mean we are content with our WRs now? Or is Jordan Matthews gone after this year? 

 
The injuries aren't anything character related. Being overweight is something that I immediately thought of as well. At least he got into shape this year, but he never should have ballooned up like that.

The lack of production isn't something I would knock him for. I didn't think the Panthers offense was good even in their SB year. They just aren't a very explosive offense. This year all they're doing is little dink and dunk passes. Cam has a rocket arm and they don't throw it down the field. They draft McCaffrey who was supposed to open their offense up, but all they did was make it even more of a short passing game. 

From what I'm reading from the PC by Carolina GM, they traded Benjamin because they wanted more speed on the field. So I would imagine they want to stretch the field more. They felt that Funchess and Benjamin are both big, physical WRs so having both on the field didn't make sense for them. I understand the thought process, but I don't understand how it took them 8 weeks to figure this out. Benjamin and Funchess were never burners. It seems as though they expected a lot more of their offense so now they're going to make some radical changes to try to fix it in season.

I'm surprised the Bills made this move. I was expecting nothing to happen, and if any moves were to be made I expected them to be low profile acquisitions only. 

The Bills just drafted Zay Jones, so he isn't going anywhere. We have Benjamin through 2018 at the least. So does that mean we are content with our WRs now? Or is Jordan Matthews gone after this year? 
Does this mean Clay sees significant playing time for Carolina now?

 
Let's not forget that Darby is a pretty good football player, he just got hurt. Matthews has done nothing, so it's going to come down to what Benjamin does.

These deals seem a bit strange but I think they honestly felt this would be a rebuilding year (as did pretty much everyone), and since they had soured on Sammy and knew they weren't bringing him back that deal made a lot of sense. Now that they are doing better than expected, they decided that they need a decent WR if they are going to compete, so this deal also makes sense.
Darby is a good football player, but the report was that he is a much better fit in a man coverage scheme than a zone coverage scheme. That makes a lot of sense to me in that he was able to do a pretty good job sticking with guys as they ran their routes, but had a difficult time reading plays at times and definitely had issues locating the ball.

As for Matthews, I don't expect a ton from him, but I find it weird that you give Darby's lack of production a pass due to his injury but don't even mention that Matthews has been limited due to 2 different injuries.

 
I was figuring the Bills would trade for a Torrey Smith for a RT or a late round pick.  Very excited they went a few tiers above and ended up with Benjamin.  Very refreshing to see.

 
Darby is a good football player, but the report was that he is a much better fit in a man coverage scheme than a zone coverage scheme. That makes a lot of sense to me in that he was able to do a pretty good job sticking with guys as they ran their routes, but had a difficult time reading plays at times and definitely had issues locating the ball.

As for Matthews, I don't expect a ton from him, but I find it weird that you give Darby's lack of production a pass due to his injury but don't even mention that Matthews has been limited due to 2 different injuries.
It's really no comparison- Darby got hurt early in the 2nd qtr. week 1 and has been out since while Matthews has at least played in 6 out of 7 games. Plus they have Darby under a cheap contract for next year while Matthews is an UFA.

 
It's really no comparison- Darby got hurt early in the 2nd qtr. week 1 and has been out since while Matthews has at least played in 6 out of 7 games. Plus they have Darby under a cheap contract for next year while Matthews is an UFA.
Matthews chipped his sternum before the season started and then broke his thumb in Week 4. If you don't think that affected his play, I don't know what to tell you.

He posted between 800-1000 yards in every season with the Eagles. Those aren't #1 WR numbers, but they're solid #2 numbers. 

And again, I like Darby, but he isn't a shutdown CB and he wasn't a great fit in the new defense. Who cares if he is under control for 1 more year if he isn't a good fit? The Bills also got a 3rd for him in addition to Matthews. Peter King also reported that Darby didn't buy into the new front office and coaching staff and wasn't happy. To turn an unhappy solid young CB who wasn't a scheme fit into a solid #2 WR and a 3rd round pick really doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

 
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From the Bills standpoint, not fantasy, it certainly looks like a positive move on paper.  McDermott and Beane are familiar with Benjamin from their time in Carolina, so they must at least be reasonably certain that he will fit in culture-wise with what they're trying to build.  It gives Tyrod a viable #1 WR, assuming Benjamin stays healthy, and should only serve to make the offense better and open things up.  He'll draw much more attention than, say, Andre Holmes, and should open things up for McCoy a little bit. 

The main concerns I have, which were also discussed by some Bills writers yesterday, are (1) that Benjamin is not the burner deep threat that the Bills really need, and (2) he doesn't get great separation from DBs but Tyrod doesn't often throw into coverage. 

Still though, even with these concerns, I can't see how it doesn't immediately make the Bills offense better.  Hell, they signed Deonte Thompson off the street a few weeks ago and he has been getting significant playing time.  Now you have a talented, potential long-term #1 WR, and you got him essentially using draft picks that you've assembled by shipping-off players who didn't fit your system (Darby) or culture (Watkins, potentially?) or who you simply don't think will ultimately pan out (Cardale Jones).  I think everyone in Buffalo is hesitant to see a GM come start trading away draft picks after the Tim Murray experiment, but I'm cautiously optimistic that they can get something out of this one.

 
Realistically, let's assume this (hopefully late) 3rd round pick would have been used on a WR.  How many receivers would have already been taken off the board by that time?  8 or 10?  

I'd certainly take Kelvin Benjamin over any WR available in the late 3rd round of a draft.

 
Matthews chipped his sternum before the season started and then broke his thumb in Week 4. If you don't think that affected his play, I don't know what to tell you.

He posted between 800-1000 yards in every season with the Eagles. Those aren't #1 WR numbers, but they're solid #2 numbers. 

And again, I like Darby, but he isn't a shutdown CB and he wasn't a great fit in the new defense. Who cares if he is under control for 1 more year if he isn't a good fit? The Bills also got a 3rd for him in addition to Matthews. Peter King also reported that Darby didn't buy into the new front office and coaching staff and wasn't happy. To turn an unhappy solid young CB who wasn't a scheme fit into a solid #2 WR and a 3rd round pick really doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.
Where did I say it didn't affect his play? The issue is, we have no way of knowing how much it has affected his play, when it's obvious how much it's affected Darby since he hasn't played.

We don't know that Darby wasn't a good fit in the new D because he didn't get a chance to play in it, but that's not really the point- Darby for 2 cheap years>Matthews for 1 IMO. I mean, that's the reason they got the 3rd rounder back, isn't it? Before you freak out again, that doesn't mean that overall I think they were bad deals for the Bills- I think they made out just fine and it could be great. I just don't think it's as lopsided as you are implying, and really it's all going to come down to how Benjamin does IMO.

 
Where did I say it didn't affect his play? The issue is, we have no way of knowing how much it has affected his play, when it's obvious how much it's affected Darby since he hasn't played.

We don't know that Darby wasn't a good fit in the new D because he didn't get a chance to play in it, but that's not really the point- Darby for 2 cheap years>Matthews for 1 IMO. I mean, that's the reason they got the 3rd rounder back, isn't it? Before you freak out again, that doesn't mean that overall I think they were bad deals for the Bills- I think they made out just fine and it could be great. I just don't think it's as lopsided as you are implying, and really it's all going to come down to how Benjamin does IMO.
They must have felt he wasn't  a fit in this d, or else he wouldn't have been shipped out as well as Seymour. I'm sure the coaching staff knows his skill set and the scheme they run and saw it in OTA's and practice if he'd be the corner they envisioned.  They brought Gaines in as more of a zone DB than man-man.  They must have felt a strong reasoning to overhaul the whole secondary.

 
What do y'all expect from Tyrod tonight? 

Considering starting him over Mariota. Not real comfortable with that idea but ty has scored better lately (granted MM was injured)

 
Lol, tonight is one of the only nights that Amazon Prime isn't broadcasting the TNF game. I can't blame them because this game looked terrible on paper before the season started. Turns out, it's actually pretty compelling heading into tonight.

 
-OZ- said:
What do y'all expect from Tyrod tonight? 

Considering starting him over Mariota. Not real comfortable with that idea but ty has scored better lately (granted MM was injured)
I'm forced to start Mariota this week vs BAL, but I would much rather take Tyrod vs NYJ. He's generally around 175-225 passing yards with 1 to 2 TDs. He's a pretty solid floor, low ceiling type of QB so you know you're going to get pretty much the same points from him week to week.

 
Lol, tonight is one of the only nights that Amazon Prime isn't broadcasting the TNF game. I can't blame them because this game looked terrible on paper before the season started. Turns out, it's actually pretty compelling heading into tonight.
I cut the cord this summer and have subscribed to the CBS All Access app on my Fire Stick. Sure enough, they aren't broadcasting this game either. So the 1 time the Bills are on National Television I have to watch illegal streams to catch the game

 
-OZ- said:
What do y'all expect from Tyrod tonight? 

Considering starting him over Mariota. Not real comfortable with that idea but ty has scored better lately (granted MM was injured)
I think you'll see what you've pretty much seen from him all year. 180-200 yards passing, 20-30 yards rushing and 1.5 TDs.

Bills will probably roll with a ton of Shady tonight, especially if Wilkerson is out. 

The NYJ secondary is young and inexperienced, but with Benjamin likely playing very little if at all, I don't think the Bills have any receiving options to really make the Jets pay for mistakes in the secondary.

 
I cut the cord this summer and have subscribed to the CBS All Access app on my Fire Stick. Sure enough, they aren't broadcasting this game either. So the 1 time the Bills are on National Television I have to watch illegal streams to catch the game
Yeah, I don't live in the Buffalo area at all, so I didn't realize that Rochester folks get totally screwed. If the game isn't sold out, it gets blacked out in Rochester, but if a game is on national TV, they don't get the local network broadcast like Buffalo does. That's straight up wrong.

 
Micah Hyde named AFC Defensive Player of the Month. 

Incredibly, Vic Carucci tweeted that Hyde is the first DB in Bills history to win the honor. That's hard to believe because they have had some really good DBs over the years.

 
Micah Hyde named AFC Defensive Player of the Month. 

Incredibly, Vic Carucci tweeted that Hyde is the first DB in Bills history to win the honor. That's hard to believe because they have had some really good DBs over the years.
What a chess-piece add he was this off-season.  Signed on one of the first few days of free agency.  Getting the money-worth for sure! 

 
What a chess-piece add he was this off-season.  Signed on one of the first few days of free agency.  Getting the money-worth for sure! 
Usually when your secondary has 4 all new starters, you are in a lot of trouble. But they have all been fantastic when healthy and they play really well together as a unit. 

 
Usually when your secondary has 4 all new starters, you are in a lot of trouble. But they have all been fantastic when healthy and they play really well together as a unit. 
Agreed. We need to lock up EJ Gaines. That should be our first priority. To have your secondary completely set and one of the best in the league is a great building block for this team. I don't care what he costs.

 
Agreed. We need to lock up EJ Gaines. That should be our first priority. To have your secondary completely set and one of the best in the league is a great building block for this team. I don't care what he costs.
Woah there, big fella. No problem trying to lock him up, but it has to be reasonable, especially for a #2 CB.

 
Woah there, big fella. No problem trying to lock him up, but it has to be reasonable, especially for a #2 CB.
I know right, we have time to lock him up as well.  Another soft, tissue injury or two and the price will become even better for us.  Young and solid in zone coverage.  I don't think Beane is going to extend anyone during the season so we can pump the brakes a bit.  Hopefully we get a deal on him.

 
I know right, we have time to lock him up as well.  Another soft, tissue injury or two and the price will become even better for us.  Young and solid in zone coverage.  I don't think Beane is going to extend anyone during the season so we can pump the brakes a bit.  Hopefully we get a deal on him.
I was talking off-season. First priority of off-season is to lock him up.

 
Just difference of opinion then. I like O'Leary ahead of all those guys.

And the Bills offense is built on the run game, but since they changed to a zone blocking scheme, this OL (the same for the prior 2 years in which they were one of the best running teams in the NFL) has struggled. It looks like Ducasse at RG and Jordan Mills at RT again this week. McDermott didn't sound too optimistic that Cordy Glenn would be starting at LT this week either, which would mean Dion Dawkins there. 

I would imagine this is a low scoring game, which would favor RBs. With Fitzpatrick or an injured Winston at QB, they're better served with leaning on the run game. Their defense can't save them if they get into any kind of shootout (which this game should not be). So it would make sense for them to ride Doug Martin as long as they can. That type of game script would favor McCoy. But nonetheless, the Bills do have to throw the ball, and I see O'Leary as being one of the most heavily targeted players on the Bills, along with McCoy.

On a side note about the team in general, I'm really disappointed with the OC choice by McDermott. He's done a lot of things right, but Rick Dennison wasn't one of them. They took one of the top rated rushing attacks and made them mediocre with the same exact OL we had for the prior 2 years. I'm a firm believer of the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" philosophy. I'm sure that Beane/McDermott have plans in 2018 on how they're going to shake up the OL, but aside from gutting the whole damn thing, what small changes can they make to fix it? I don't see it. I would welcome a Cordy Glenn trade if we got good value in return. All last year I was hoping they would keep Kuoandjio at LT and trade Glenn to upgrade the team elsewhere as the dropoff from Glenn to CK wasn't huge. Unfortunately he's not even on the roster anymore.

2018 and beyond we have our work cut out for us. I don't have a good feeling that we're going to keep EJ Gaines. If so, why aren't we discussing a deal with him now? Poyer, Hyde, White are are great combination back there, but keeping Gaines would give us a very good secondary to build around. Humber has been doing well and Preston Brown isn't have a great statistical season but he's done well. Lorenzo Alexander and Kyle Williams aren't going to be with the team for much longer due to their age (I expect Kyle to retire after this season). Dareus is as good as gone IMO. We clearly need a whole new WR core, and in my opinion Tyrod is NOT the answer at QB. So to sum that up: QB, WR, WR, RG & RT (at minimum, regardless of scheme change or not), DT, DT, OLB, and potentially CB. We have a lot of draft picks next year, but that's a hell of a lot of positions to be addressing in one off-season.
More of an off-season type move.  We have some time.  I'm sure the first priority they'll have is seeing where Kyle Williams' heads at. They will make sure to figure out that vet first.  Will he retire and save us some money, or will he sign a small one year deal. I'm hoping he retires.  Not so worried about Humber or Brown.  I'd be fine bringing Matthews back.

I like Gaines, and for being the throw in on that deal as one of the bottom corners on their roster was a win in itself.

 
Agreed. We need to lock up EJ Gaines. That should be our first priority. To have your secondary completely set and one of the best in the league is a great building block for this team. I don't care what he costs.
Not picking a fight, but isn't this the guy that people were lambasting them for trading Watkins for (along with getting pick(s))?

 
Not picking a fight, but isn't this the guy that people were lambasting them for trading Watkins for (along with getting pick(s))?
I didn't but yes, I'd guess 75% of the fan base didn't understand the business part of what it would cost to keep Sammy and then the Bills made the 2nd trade with Matthews to replace him.   Turns out now they'll have Benjamin at ABOUT half Sammy's cost next year.  Picking up Sammy's option or franchising him would have cost the Bills 13-16M range. 

 
Thoughts on tyrods production tonight?


I think you'll see what you've pretty much seen from him all year. 180-200 yards passing, 20-30 yards rushing and 1.5 TDs.

Bills will probably roll with a ton of Shady tonight, especially if Wilkerson is out. 

The NYJ secondary is young and inexperienced, but with Benjamin likely playing very little if at all, I don't think the Bills have any receiving options to really make the Jets pay for mistakes in the secondary.

 
Not picking a fight, but isn't this the guy that people were lambasting them for trading Watkins for (along with getting pick(s))?
I would imagine that most people were upset with that trade when it first happened. We spent two 1sts on a guy that could never stay healthy, and then when he is healthy we trade him. That shouldn't change the fact that Gaines has been excellent though.

On a side note, doesn't it figure that Sammy goes to LA and has stayed completely healthy all year?

 
I would imagine that most people were upset with that trade when it first happened. We spent two 1sts on a guy that could never stay healthy, and then when he is healthy we trade him. That shouldn't change the fact that Gaines has been excellent though.

On a side note, doesn't it figure that Sammy goes to LA and has stayed completely healthy all year?
Nope. Sat a game due to concussion.

 
What a pathetic performance. Sloppy play everywhere.

It also makes you realize just how significant a +2/+3 turnover margin is in a game, especially for a team with no real passing game. And, you can't count on that sort of margin every game.

 
What a pathetic performance. Sloppy play everywhere.

It also makes you realize just how significant a +2/+3 turnover margin is in a game, especially for a team with no real passing game. And, you can't count on that sort of margin every game.
That has been my issue with this team. The turnovers won't always be there. When they aren't this team does not have the ability to score lots of points. Tyrod gets too much credit from a lot of people IMO. He got a lot of those stats against soft coverage in garbage time. He will make a good throw here and there, but too often he's checking down for 4-5 yards in the middle of the field or dumping off to McCoy. That dink and dunk type of offense will not get us down the field consistently.

This game reminds me of what the Bengals game could have been had we not had those timely turnovers. 

I understand Incognito #####ing about the TNF games. But the Jets were on the same amount of rest as us, and they showed up. Our guys were flat and just awful all game. There was absolutely no blocking, no pass rush, no tackling, and Tre White was burnt too many times. Just a piss poor performance. 

I'm okay with a loss to a division rival that has been playing other teams very tough. But not okay with a Rex Ryan-type of performance where the team looks like they were hanging out with the West Canaan Coyotes at the strip club the night before the game. Pathetic. 

This game was a must win, considering we have 4 divisional games ahead of us, 2 against the Patriots, and still have to play KC and NO. 

 
This one hurt a lot.  Out-coached, out classed.  Dennison was awful.  McDermott looked visibly frustrated.  Tyrod made some throws but had no time to do anything, yes maybe 1 or 2 sacks were his fault but he did stay in the pocket and make some nice throws.  Nothing was attempted to slow down the pass rush.  They contained yes, but they didn't get the LB's and DE's off their spots with any screens or sweeps.  Mike Tolbert is a waste on first and second downs.  He should be short yardage and goalline. We need a RB.  Jones getting some change of pace touches would be nice prior to his injury.  McCoy hobbling around didn't help either but Jamal Adams had him on lock down. 

I don't like Hyde back on Punt Returns.  He's too valuable on D to be back there.  With them not dressing Benjamin, was Tate injured or a healthy scratch?   Crushed in field position.

The pass rush doesn't get there.  Everything that could go wrong did.  O'Leary getting up and fumbling,  Matthews reaching for one yard when you were already in FG range.  Points cost us.  Just everything was an embarrassment. Jerry Hughes running his mouth in frustration, at least McDermott sat him for a couple series.  It was nice to see Zay show up big. Love that kids heart. Hopefully he's ok. 

My only hope is we have 10 days rest, come back home where we have been playing well and McDermott gets an opponent he's seen a bunch of times.  We've won two straight after both previous loses.  This could have been a special 10 days and a good feeling but now it's back to 2 very important games.  Obviously want them both but if you can guarantee me one give me the Chargers. 

Go Bills.

 
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I have been a football fan nearly all my life. A fantasy football fanatic for 20+ of those years until 2 years ago.  I've rooted for and against many teams at different times for various reasons and I've enjoyed the sport more hours than I'll ever put into most other things in my life.

That game last night might be "The night football died" for me.  I'm a realist.  I know there will be no call from Mr. Goodwill saying "please don't go, Mr. shutout. What can we do to make it better?". I know most people reading this right now won't care one bit (nor should you), but I wanted to mention it because I want to say I sympathize for the Bills fans.  I know you expected and needed more in that game.  It was an important watershed moment opportunity and it failed to deliver.  Very disappointing. 

But as I watched last night, I don't think I've ever been more disappointed/let down in the game, in general.  It seemed As if all the things that we read people writing about that they say is hurting (killing?) the game reared its ugly head last night.  All the warning signs we discuss. All the injuries that we cry about because it impacts a ppr league and, oh by the way, is literally crippling and damaging these men.  The bad refs, the commercials, the political undercurrents and overtones.  It was all there last night in ugly fashion and so I watched, said I'd sleep on it, and I did.

This morning, I'm here to say it's broken. It's not going to be better.  Ever.  The gambling angle might be enough glue for some.  It always will.  After all, people still "Bet on the ponies" here and there.  But the great run is over. I don't know how to take that first step into the unknown dark but I'm sure it will be fine.  Here's to find ding the next great thing.

 

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