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I don't really think it's weird at all- they overpaid, so Cleveland made the deal. I don't disagree that they are snakebitten, but I think it's likely that they knew in advance, and they still figured they were better off making the deal. Just doesn't make sense that some people in the organization knew, but they didn't at a minimum insist that they draft Watkins even without "disclosing" the info.
if Spiller repeats his 2013 season, they will be very happy to have Brown around. also gives them insurance for next year since Spiller/Jackson are in the last year of their deals.
In fairness, Jackson isn't going to be around much longer. I will personally fly out to Buffalo and punch Brandon in the liver if they let Spiller walk.
Fred could fall apart at anytime. He did really well last year which stunned me because he looked downright sluggish in the preseason. But he played very well and I won't take that from him. But a lot of RB's just fall of the cliff, they don't always take gradual declines and I can really see that happening to Fred.
If you're looking at this move for 2015, why not just wait and use that 4th on an RB that year. It gives you more flexibility. Maybe you end up using a 2 or 3, if Fred finally breaks down. It is also safer. Who knows how Brown's health will hold up over this season of backup duty.
You guys forget how badly our third and fourth CBs got torched last year at key times. We also lost our starting FS with not much depth behind him.sure, DBs is a position you typically need to invest in and the Bills have done that. Do you think they need more DBs over a QB?We've spent the last 15 years trying to find guards, DBs, etc off the street and have yield awful results.
As for OL, my sense is there are a lot of starters at the position around the league that went undrafted. Or you can just pick up other team's scraps like the Bills did with Legursky, Urbik, Rinehart, etc. Wasn't the line pretty good under Gailey with mostly players that were undrafted by the Bills? I think a lot of it is coaching and scheme, as much as raw talent.
Undrafted Jason Peters also worked out a lot better than #4 overall pick Mike Williams.
so your position is you want to roll with Manuel, Thad, and Tuel and don't bring in any new competition no matter the cost? They spent late round picks on two safeties last year and a kicker. Why not take a lottery ticket QB at some point?
It's not just for 2015, both Spiller and FJax have some health concerns. Either way they obviously like him, they tried trading for him last year as well. Time will tell.
I'd offer a few reasons.
Exactly in re Jackson (who also hasn't been injury free himself the last few years). And it sounds like they are going to try resigning Spiller long-term after the draft. Even if they do, getting another talented RB on the cheap is not a bad thing particularly in re Jackson leaving after this year.
The reality is that it's very difficult to find impact players at any position on the 3rd day of the draft. There will certainly be some, but there will be many more who are not. Drafting for perceived need is something that the better teams in the league shy away from for good reason. If the BPA is a QB, it would be foolish to pass just because they have EJ.You guys forget how badly our third and fourth CBs got torched last year at key times. We also lost our starting FS with not much depth behind him.sure, DBs is a position you typically need to invest in and the Bills have done that. Do you think they need more DBs over a QB?
As for OL, my sense is there are a lot of starters at the position around the league that went undrafted. Or you can just pick up other team's scraps like the Bills did with Legursky, Urbik, Rinehart, etc. Wasn't the line pretty good under Gailey with mostly players that were undrafted by the Bills? I think a lot of it is coaching and scheme, as much as raw talent.
Undrafted Jason Peters also worked out a lot better than #4 overall pick Mike Williams.
so your position is you want to roll with Manuel, Thad, and Tuel and don't bring in any new competition no matter the cost? They spent late round picks on two safeties last year and a kicker. Why not take a lottery ticket QB at some point?
And thinking you can get an all-pro tackle as an UDFA every year (ie, Peters) is fools gold. Drafted players outperform undrafted guys by a huge percentage - and there's a reason for that.
With respect to the Gailey offensive lines, our tackles were competent and we had high round picks (Woods and Levitre) solidifying the middle. And even then, the line struggled with traditional blocking concepts and Gailey had to resort to a lot of misdirection and spread blocking. Fitzpatrick's hyper-quick release was also a gigantic factor in limiting sacks.
There's no point in wasting another pick at the QB position when you know Manuel needs another full season as the starter to determine if he's the guy. The team already spent late round picks on a couple developmental guys that have showed promise. Why go back to the drawing board just one year later?
The reality is that it's very difficult to find impact players at any position on the 3rd day of the draft. There will certainly be some, but there will be many more who are not. Drafting for perceived need is something that the better teams in the league shy away from for good reason. If the BPA is a QB, it would be foolish to pass just because they have EJ.You guys forget how badly our third and fourth CBs got torched last year at key times. We also lost our starting FS with not much depth behind him.sure, DBs is a position you typically need to invest in and the Bills have done that. Do you think they need more DBs over a QB?
As for OL, my sense is there are a lot of starters at the position around the league that went undrafted. Or you can just pick up other team's scraps like the Bills did with Legursky, Urbik, Rinehart, etc. Wasn't the line pretty good under Gailey with mostly players that were undrafted by the Bills? I think a lot of it is coaching and scheme, as much as raw talent.
Undrafted Jason Peters also worked out a lot better than #4 overall pick Mike Williams.
so your position is you want to roll with Manuel, Thad, and Tuel and don't bring in any new competition no matter the cost? They spent late round picks on two safeties last year and a kicker. Why not take a lottery ticket QB at some point?
And thinking you can get an all-pro tackle as an UDFA every year (ie, Peters) is fools gold. Drafted players outperform undrafted guys by a huge percentage - and there's a reason for that.
With respect to the Gailey offensive lines, our tackles were competent and we had high round picks (Woods and Levitre) solidifying the middle. And even then, the line struggled with traditional blocking concepts and Gailey had to resort to a lot of misdirection and spread blocking. Fitzpatrick's hyper-quick release was also a gigantic factor in limiting sacks.
There's no point in wasting another pick at the QB position when you know Manuel needs another full season as the starter to determine if he's the guy. The team already spent late round picks on a couple developmental guys that have showed promise. Why go back to the drawing board just one year later?
You can keep shaking your head, but you're way off base.The reality is that it's very difficult to find impact players at any position on the 3rd day of the draft. There will certainly be some, but there will be many more who are not. Drafting for perceived need is something that the better teams in the league shy away from for good reason. If the BPA is a QB, it would be foolish to pass just because they have EJ.You guys forget how badly our third and fourth CBs got torched last year at key times. We also lost our starting FS with not much depth behind him.sure, DBs is a position you typically need to invest in and the Bills have done that. Do you think they need more DBs over a QB?
As for OL, my sense is there are a lot of starters at the position around the league that went undrafted. Or you can just pick up other team's scraps like the Bills did with Legursky, Urbik, Rinehart, etc. Wasn't the line pretty good under Gailey with mostly players that were undrafted by the Bills? I think a lot of it is coaching and scheme, as much as raw talent.
Undrafted Jason Peters also worked out a lot better than #4 overall pick Mike Williams.
so your position is you want to roll with Manuel, Thad, and Tuel and don't bring in any new competition no matter the cost? They spent late round picks on two safeties last year and a kicker. Why not take a lottery ticket QB at some point?
And thinking you can get an all-pro tackle as an UDFA every year (ie, Peters) is fools gold. Drafted players outperform undrafted guys by a huge percentage - and there's a reason for that.
With respect to the Gailey offensive lines, our tackles were competent and we had high round picks (Woods and Levitre) solidifying the middle. And even then, the line struggled with traditional blocking concepts and Gailey had to resort to a lot of misdirection and spread blocking. Fitzpatrick's hyper-quick release was also a gigantic factor in limiting sacks.
There's no point in wasting another pick at the QB position when you know Manuel needs another full season as the starter to determine if he's the guy. The team already spent late round picks on a couple developmental guys that have showed promise. Why go back to the drawing board just one year later?
Good and bad teams both favor drafting for need in later rounds unless there is a clear outlier on your board.
There's no way you could trade into the top of the 1st round without at least a mid-to-late 1st. You'd need about 15 2nds.
Stopped reading here. Someone says "always" or never" whatever follows is meaningless.
Yup. Every single time.Christo said:
You're also the guy that told me back in October that teams routinely draft guards in the first round too.humpback said:You can keep shaking your head, but you're way off base.OC Zed said:humpback said:The reality is that it's very difficult to find impact players at any position on the 3rd day of the draft. There will certainly be some, but there will be many more who are not. Drafting for perceived need is something that the better teams in the league shy away from for good reason. If the BPA is a QB, it would be foolish to pass just because they have EJ.OC Zed said:You guys forget how badly our third and fourth CBs got torched last year at key times. We also lost our starting FS with not much depth behind him.Aaron Rudnicki said:sure, DBs is a position you typically need to invest in and the Bills have done that. Do you think they need more DBs over a QB?OC Zed said:
As for OL, my sense is there are a lot of starters at the position around the league that went undrafted. Or you can just pick up other team's scraps like the Bills did with Legursky, Urbik, Rinehart, etc. Wasn't the line pretty good under Gailey with mostly players that were undrafted by the Bills? I think a lot of it is coaching and scheme, as much as raw talent.
Undrafted Jason Peters also worked out a lot better than #4 overall pick Mike Williams.
so your position is you want to roll with Manuel, Thad, and Tuel and don't bring in any new competition no matter the cost? They spent late round picks on two safeties last year and a kicker. Why not take a lottery ticket QB at some point?
And thinking you can get an all-pro tackle as an UDFA every year (ie, Peters) is fools gold. Drafted players outperform undrafted guys by a huge percentage - and there's a reason for that.
With respect to the Gailey offensive lines, our tackles were competent and we had high round picks (Woods and Levitre) solidifying the middle. And even then, the line struggled with traditional blocking concepts and Gailey had to resort to a lot of misdirection and spread blocking. Fitzpatrick's hyper-quick release was also a gigantic factor in limiting sacks.
There's no point in wasting another pick at the QB position when you know Manuel needs another full season as the starter to determine if he's the guy. The team already spent late round picks on a couple developmental guys that have showed promise. Why go back to the drawing board just one year later?
Good and bad teams both favor drafting for need in later rounds unless there is a clear outlier on your board.
Thanks for the reminder. Of course I never said that, I simply pointed out that you were factually incorrect in saying that guards aren't drafted in the 1st round. You seem to enjoy making stuff up pretty regularly.You're also the guy that told me back in October that teams routinely draft guards in the first round too.humpback said:You can keep shaking your head, but you're way off base.OC Zed said:humpback said:The reality is that it's very difficult to find impact players at any position on the 3rd day of the draft. There will certainly be some, but there will be many more who are not. Drafting for perceived need is something that the better teams in the league shy away from for good reason. If the BPA is a QB, it would be foolish to pass just because they have EJ.OC Zed said:You guys forget how badly our third and fourth CBs got torched last year at key times. We also lost our starting FS with not much depth behind him.Aaron Rudnicki said:sure, DBs is a position you typically need to invest in and the Bills have done that. Do you think they need more DBs over a QB?OC Zed said:
As for OL, my sense is there are a lot of starters at the position around the league that went undrafted. Or you can just pick up other team's scraps like the Bills did with Legursky, Urbik, Rinehart, etc. Wasn't the line pretty good under Gailey with mostly players that were undrafted by the Bills? I think a lot of it is coaching and scheme, as much as raw talent.
Undrafted Jason Peters also worked out a lot better than #4 overall pick Mike Williams.
so your position is you want to roll with Manuel, Thad, and Tuel and don't bring in any new competition no matter the cost? They spent late round picks on two safeties last year and a kicker. Why not take a lottery ticket QB at some point?
And thinking you can get an all-pro tackle as an UDFA every year (ie, Peters) is fools gold. Drafted players outperform undrafted guys by a huge percentage - and there's a reason for that.
With respect to the Gailey offensive lines, our tackles were competent and we had high round picks (Woods and Levitre) solidifying the middle. And even then, the line struggled with traditional blocking concepts and Gailey had to resort to a lot of misdirection and spread blocking. Fitzpatrick's hyper-quick release was also a gigantic factor in limiting sacks.
There's no point in wasting another pick at the QB position when you know Manuel needs another full season as the starter to determine if he's the guy. The team already spent late round picks on a couple developmental guys that have showed promise. Why go back to the drawing board just one year later?
Good and bad teams both favor drafting for need in later rounds unless there is a clear outlier on your board.
Ya, some teams NEED to develop a backup QB behind their established starter, Ace.
Another moving of the goalposts, but like the Bills don't?Ya, some teams NEED to develop a backup QB behind their established starter, Ace.
Agreed 100%. The Panthers spent a first round pick 2 years in a row on QBs. Do you think they regret taking Cam with that second one? I mean, yeah, maybe it ruined Jimmy Claussen's confidence, but I think Carolina is OK with that.It's a QB league. You HAVE to have a good one to compete year after year. If a guy can't take some competition, then he doesn't have the confidence to be that longterm guy anyway. Murray and McCarron were great value picks in the 4th and the Bills blew it by not giving themselves the most possible chances to be better at the most important position in football.
If you don't see the differences between those situations and Buffalo's, then this conversation is pointless.Another moving of the goalposts, but like the Bills don't? You make less sense with every post, Ace.Ya, some teams NEED to develop a backup QB behind their established starter, Ace.
Again, that's not a comparable comparison to Buffalo. Clausen was an unmitigated disaster in Year 1 and the Panthers had an opportunity to draft a guy they thought was a franchise player head and shoulders above everyone else in that draft (and, safe to say, much higher than the Bills ever rated Manuel). Manuel at least showed some promise last year and the Bills were never in a position to draft a QB this year that was rated as highly as the Panthers thought of Cam. If Manuel completely falls on his face this coming year (which is possible), then yes, picking another QB should definitely be considered at that point. But Manuel is still in the stage of trying to build up his game and confidence. Bringing another young guy as competition and potentially stealing time away from him will only #######/stunt his development. You've made a huge investment in the guy - now is the time to try to maximize your value.
I am a big fan of the Baylor guard taken in the 5th round. Our guard play was poor last year and I'm not a believer in free agent acquisition Chris Williams. At least this draft pick will have the opportunity to crack the starting lineup before the end of the year.
as a browns fan, i fully endorse this strategy.
Hell, Washington took two QBs in the same draft who ended up contributing to a playoff run. It worked out well for them then. I got to agree: I really wish they would have taken McCarron. But then again, I understand why they went all in with 3 picks of O-linemen too. How long have we all been crying for them to address the offensive line's holes? Granted, they weren't BAD last year, but the right side was noticeably weak compared to previous years. They needed to do something about it before EJ died back there.to both of you. I agree completely.
Oh, the conversation is pointless for sure, but it has nothing to do with seeing the differences in situations. You've changed your story for why they shouldn't draft another QB late several times, and none of them make a bit of sense.If you don't see the differences between those situations and Buffalo's, then this conversation is pointless.Another moving of the goalposts, but like the Bills don't? You make less sense with every post, Ace.Ya, some teams NEED to develop a backup QB behind their established starter, Ace.
