What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (7 Viewers)

Because to the Steelers, it's not a negotiable rule.  They don't do it, period.  Just like for other than QBs, they don't renegotiate deals for players until they have 1 year left on their contract. The players know it, too.  It's the same rule that was applied to Antonio Brown and to Hines Ward before him.  And you know what?  It's worked very, very well for a long time.

And again, he had served a suspension in 2015 and 2016.  What in the world would make a guy like that worth a $30M guarantee the following offseason? C'mon now... look beyond the numbers and see the issues he had and the REASONS for decisions. 
I get all of that.  But here’s my point, and it’s based on the assumption that if they’d offered $30M truly guaranteed, Bell would have accepted.

The Steelers created this rule for themselves.  You believe that they would absolutely have paid the rolling guarantees for year 2, without question.  That means the only reason this happened is because the Steelers made up a rule for themselves.  None of what we’ve discussed in the last who knows how many pages matters: it’s not about the value of RBs, it’s not about the Steelers making sure they keep who they want, it’s not about the relative value of Conner at his rookie deal vs Bell on a big deal, it’s not about the franchise tag, it’s not about Bell being secretive about his plans-none of that matters.  If the Steelers didn’t have this self-imposed rule (which is meaningless in this case, because they absolutely were going to pay out the 2nd year rolling guarantees), this wouldn’t have happened.

 
I get all of that.  But here’s my point, and it’s based on the assumption that if they’d offered $30M truly guaranteed, Bell would have accepted.

The Steelers created this rule for themselves.  You believe that they would absolutely have paid the rolling guarantees for year 2, without question.  That means the only reason this happened is because the Steelers made up a rule for themselves.  None of what we’ve discussed in the last who knows how many pages matters: it’s not about the value of RBs, it’s not about the Steelers making sure they keep who they want, it’s not about the relative value of Conner at his rookie deal vs Bell on a big deal, it’s not about the franchise tag, it’s not about Bell being secretive about his plans-none of that matters.  If the Steelers didn’t have this self-imposed rule (which is meaningless in this case, because they absolutely were going to pay out the 2nd year rolling guarantees), this wouldn’t have happened.
It's not about the value of RBs. If the Steelers had the cap space and a RB they felt was worth it, they'd do it.  And personally, if you give me a choice between having Bell or Brown, I take Bell fairly easily.

It IS about the Steelers keeping who they want assuming they have the space to do it. Bell was not and is not a guy they felt was worth his asking price in guaranteed money.

It's not about Conner at all.  Never was. The Steelers are already seeing the limitations in Conner as a receiver, which is why there's been a bump in usage from Switzer. Not that Conner can't catch, but he's not dynamic as a receiver.

All of those factors contributed in a big way, especially the timing of Bell making his intentions clear.  I do believe that if the Steelers had known he'd sit out like this, he'd have been traded in July and would've already been paid, and the Steelers would've gotten a good pick plus more and the cap relief.

That rule only impacted Bell's decision to accept their offer LAST offseason, and in the end, the offer was strong given the circumstances.  You can argue the merits of the offer or what you think the Steelers could've done or would've done, but in the end, it was the strongest offer any RB had ever received at the time but not up to where Bell wanted it to be. So they moved on.

 
Why would bell come back week 7, well to still make close to 10 mill...get a week and a half with the team before the next game. Miss out on almost a half a season worth of touches and probably the biggest thing is to come back and get 1000 yards from scrimmage and show his next team why he’s worth a huge contract.

Yeah it could be to get traded but I’m guessing at the same time bell enjoys playing for the Steelers because he can put up such great numbers since they have so many other weapons and as I said above in the 10 weeks that would be left on the season if he gets 1000 yards from scrimmage then you can almost guarantee him getting the type of guaranteed money he is looking for in the offseason

 
So if he came back now they could still pay him the 14.5 million right?
God I hope not. If he wanted the full $14.5 million, he could've earned that by reporting week 1. They can take the money Bell doesn't get and roll it into 2019, which would be a far better option than paying Bell $14.5 million for basically half a season that isn't going anywhere.

Was kind of hoping he wouldn't report until week 11 so more money can carry forward. 

 
Fantasy dynasty wise...is he a buy, sell, or hold. If you can ge someone like Mixon or Fournette do you roll the dice? Do you hold and hope? Take less and move on from him. What are you doing?

 
It's not about the value of RBs. If the Steelers had the cap space and a RB they felt was worth it, they'd do it.  And personally, if you give me a choice between having Bell or Brown, I take Bell fairly easily.

It IS about the Steelers keeping who they want assuming they have the space to do it. Bell was not and is not a guy they felt was worth his asking price in guaranteed money.

It's not about Conner at all.  Never was. The Steelers are already seeing the limitations in Conner as a receiver, which is why there's been a bump in usage from Switzer. Not that Conner can't catch, but he's not dynamic as a receiver.

All of those factors contributed in a big way, especially the timing of Bell making his intentions clear.  I do believe that if the Steelers had known he'd sit out like this, he'd have been traded in July and would've already been paid, and the Steelers would've gotten a good pick plus more and the cap relief.

That rule only impacted Bell's decision to accept their offer LAST offseason, and in the end, the offer was strong given the circumstances.  You can argue the merits of the offer or what you think the Steelers could've done or would've done, but in the end, it was the strongest offer any RB had ever received at the time but not up to where Bell wanted it to be. So they moved on.
The rule impacted each year’s negotiations.  If Pitt has made the rolling guarantees in year 2 guaranteed (either year) I’m pretty sure Bell would’ve accepted.  But because they made up a rule where they wouldn’t guarantee that you are certain they’d have given him, they created this situation.  It’s on them, if that’s true.

 
The rule impacted each year’s negotiations.  If Pitt has made the rolling guarantees in year 2 guaranteed (either year) I’m pretty sure Bell would’ve accepted.  But because they made up a rule where they wouldn’t guarantee that you are certain they’d have given him, they created this situation.  It’s on them, if that’s true.
No.  They didn't even offer him anything until before the 2017 season, and that's because he had to serve suspensions in both 2015 and 2016.  Giving him a contract before that wasn't even a consideration, just like it wouldn't have been for virtually any other well-run franchise.

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong about what he would've or wouldn't have accepted.  He's openly said he's looking for $15 million a year with plenty of guaranteed money, and the Steelers would've been nuts to do that at any point.

 
No.  They didn't even offer him anything until before the 2017 season, and that's because he had to serve suspensions in both 2015 and 2016.  Giving him a contract before that wasn't even a consideration, just like it wouldn't have been for virtually any other well-run franchise.

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong about what he would've or wouldn't have accepted.  He's openly said he's looking for $15 million a year with plenty of guaranteed money, and the Steelers would've been nuts to do that at any point.
No what?  The last two seasons=before the 2017 season and before this season.  In neither case did Pitt guarantee any money in the 2nd year of the offer.  What are you saying no to?

Players say things;  he’s also openly said that he’d take less than $15M.  Why do you choose to accept 1 statement he made, but not the other?  If he would have turned down $30M fully guaranteed, I’m wrong.  We’ll see next off-season, I guess.  The fact remains, however, that the Steelers creates this artificial impediment to getting a deal done, and their unwillingness to break their self-created, unwritten rule got in the way of a deal from getting made.

 
No what?  The last two seasons=before the 2017 season and before this season.  In neither case did Pitt guarantee any money in the 2nd year of the offer.  What are you saying no to?

Players say things;  he’s also openly said that he’d take less than $15M.  Why do you choose to accept 1 statement he made, but not the other?  If he would have turned down $30M fully guaranteed, I’m wrong.  We’ll see next off-season, I guess.  The fact remains, however, that the Steelers creates this artificial impediment to getting a deal done, and their unwillingness to break their self-created, unwritten rule got in the way of a deal from getting made.
I think I misunderstood something.  Either way, the lack of fully guaranteed money likely spoke as much to their feelings about his reliability and the fact that Brown and Bell were signed long term already.  They weren't going to guarantee future years, but they could've done something with a signing bonus and a first year salary if they really wanted to... they didn't.  Don't know what he would've accepted and what he wouldn't have, and we'll never know because the Steelers didn't feel he was worth anything close enough. The Steelers made what I and most felt was a strong offer before 2017,especially given his circumstances, and after he rejected that they probably had no intentions of meeting his demands this year. It's all about guaranteed money with Bell, and that's fine... we'll see what his market value is next year maybe.

Argue the validity or sense of their rule all you want. It's worked for a long time and they've signed and kept a lot of great players over the years. The ones they've wanted to keep haven't gotten away.

 
ghostguy123 said:
If that was Bell, he gets 15 million this year, goes on IR, comes back fine next year with a nice deal.  He broke his leg.  He didnt die.  
Do you know how easy it is for a broken leg to end a career? Thomas was lucky it was a clean break.

 
I think I misunderstood something.  Either way, the lack of fully guaranteed money likely spoke as much to their feelings about his reliability and the fact that Brown and Bell were signed long term already.  They weren't going to guarantee future years, but they could've done something with a signing bonus and a first year salary if they really wanted to... they didn't.  Don't know what he would've accepted and what he wouldn't have, and we'll never know because the Steelers didn't feel he was worth anything close enough. The Steelers made what I and most felt was a strong offer before 2017,especially given his circumstances, and after he rejected that they probably had no intentions of meeting his demands this year. It's all about guaranteed money with Bell, and that's fine... we'll see what his market value is next year maybe.

Argue the validity or sense of their rule all you want. It's worked for a long time and they've signed and kept a lot of great players over the years. The ones they've wanted to keep haven't gotten away.
OK; good discussion.

 
Okay (& I know you haven’t said Conner=Bell); but if the Steelers were definitely gonna honor the rolling guarantees from year 2, then why not make them real guarantees?  The only reason would be to uphold their own self-imposed “no guaranteed $$ beyond year 1” rule.  In which case, they brought all of this upon themselves.  Bell would have signed (IMO) if the $30M were really guaranteed, and if they were gonna pay it, no matter what; they should have broken their little rule & this entire debacle wouldn’t have happened.
It would have helped but Bell said he wanted $17 million a year so I don't think a guarantee of less than 2 years would have done it.

 
No what?  The last two seasons=before the 2017 season and before this season.  In neither case did Pitt guarantee any money in the 2nd year of the offer.  What are you saying no to?

Players say things;  he’s also openly said that he’d take less than $15M.  Why do you choose to accept 1 statement he made, but not the other?  If he would have turned down $30M fully guaranteed, I’m wrong.  We’ll see next off-season, I guess.  The fact remains, however, that the Steelers creates this artificial impediment to getting a deal done, and their unwillingness to break their self-created, unwritten rule got in the way of a deal from getting made.
Bell's comments have been all over the place throughout this whole ordeal.   Putting stock in anything he says is foolish because next week he'll probably say or do something that contradicts what he said before.

 
Anarchy99 said:
One reason it benefits Bell is obvious. He would get paid $850,000 for the bye week. 
Probably but not necessarily.  When Bell finally does report the Steelers will likely get a 2-week roster exemption.  My understanding is that Bell is not entitled to the $850k until he is on the active roster.  Now the Steelers may pay him the full amount as a token of good will but I don't think they have to.

 
I think coming in during the bye week implies he intends to play for the steelers. That lets him rejoin the team without interfering with game planning for the week while he get reacclimated and saving his body from jumping right into a game. 

 
It would have helped but Bell said he wanted $17 million a year so I don't think a guarantee of less than 2 years would have done it.
Maybe you're right.  If you are, then I think Bell is in the wrong (not that it matters what I think, or if we'll ever really know what would have happened).

 
Bell's comments have been all over the place throughout this whole ordeal.   Putting stock in anything he says is foolish because next week he'll probably say or do something that contradicts what he said before.
That's what I meant; he's said contradictory things, so I don't see why we should accept one statement as true, but ignore it when he says the opposite.

 
It would have helped but Bell said he wanted $17 million a year so I don't think a guarantee of less than 2 years would have done it.
Bell is forfeiting almost 7 million in guaranteed salary this season.  So basically it would be the same as Bell playing for 7 million this year and just missing the first 7 games with a bad hammy.

If Bell rejected 30 guaranteed for 2 he will need 37 guaranteed for 2 to make up lost wages.  Maybe I am wrong but it is hard to see a team paying that to a RB as it will wreck havoc on the teams cap.  Bell has been very productive but I also think he is a perfect fit in Pitt.  Some RBs go to other teams and the fit is not the same.

Don`t know why people are bringing Thomas up..injuries in the NFL are random and players go down every week.  Some guys play every down and never get hurt and others may only be in for a couple of plays and get hurt.

 
Bell is forfeiting almost 7 million in guaranteed salary this season.  So basically it would be the same as Bell playing for 7 million this year and just missing the first 7 games with a bad hammy.

If Bell rejected 30 guaranteed for 2 he will need 37 guaranteed for 2 to make up lost wages.  Maybe I am wrong but it is hard to see a team paying that to a RB as it will wreck havoc on the teams cap.  Bell has been very productive but I also think he is a perfect fit in Pitt.  Some RBs go to other teams and the fit is not the same.

Don`t know why people are bringing Thomas up..injuries in the NFL are random and players go down every week.  Some guys play every down and never get hurt and others may only be in for a couple of plays and get hurt.
You are looking at the money wrong on how he can make it up or what he lost. There are variables we will never know and can't put a value on. 

We are bringing up Thomas because he is in a similar spot and showing what might happen where Bell could lose value. 

 
Bell is forfeiting almost 7 million in guaranteed salary this season.  So basically it would be the same as Bell playing for 7 million this year and just missing the first 7 games with a bad hammy.

If Bell rejected 30 guaranteed for 2 he will need 37 guaranteed for 2 to make up lost wages.  Maybe I am wrong but it is hard to see a team paying that to a RB as it will wreck havoc on the teams cap.  Bell has been very productive but I also think he is a perfect fit in Pitt.  Some RBs go to other teams and the fit is not the same.

Don`t know why people are bringing Thomas up..injuries in the NFL are random and players go down every week.  Some guys play every down and never get hurt and others may only be in for a couple of plays and get hurt.
Agreed but I think they are bringing it up because it illustrates just how important guarantees are to players because they never know if or when they could be struck with a career ending injury.

 
You are looking at the money wrong on how he can make it up or what he lost. There are variables we will never know and can't put a value on. 

We are bringing up Thomas because he is in a similar spot and showing what might happen where Bell could lose value. 
Probably close to half the NFL is in similar spots though.

 
Agreed but I think they are bringing it up because it illustrates just how important guarantees are to players because they never know if or when they could be struck with a career ending injury.
On April 28, 2014, the Seattle Seahawks signed Thomas to a four-year, $40 million contract extension with $27.72 million guaranteed making Thomas the highest paid safety in the NFL. Thomas played out the whole deal so it was worth 40 million to him.

Thomas got paid when he deserved it.  At his age and injury history causing him to lose a step he was not going to get a hefty extension.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
On April 28, 2014, the Seattle Seahawks signed Thomas to a four-year, $40 million contract extension with $27.72 million guaranteed making Thomas the highest paid safety in the NFL. Thomas played out the whole deal so it was worth 40 million to him.

Thomas got paid when he deserved it.  At his age and injury history causing him to lose a step he was not going to get a hefty extension.
Players are never going to see their depreciating value the way that teams do, nor should they. For me the undercurrent / common theme to Thomas and Bell and the Legion of Boom story is the legacy and "culture" of players being semi-disposable, depreciating assets. If they feel like cheap lighters that get tossed when they run out of fluid, it's because the vast majority of them are. Some forget about the money they already made. They're the lucky ones because many never really made any...

 
Players are never going to see their depreciating value the way that teams do, nor should they. For me the undercurrent / common theme to Thomas and Bell and the Legion of Boom story is the legacy and "culture" of players being semi-disposable, depreciating assets. If they feel like cheap lighters that get tossed when they run out of fluid, it's because the vast majority of them are. Some forget about the money they already made. They're the lucky ones because many never really made any...
The players are semi-disposable.....but everyone in society is as well.   The game always goes on with or without Bell, Thomas, Peyton, Emmitt..whoever. 

Players are interchangeable with some better than others but the player pool is and always will be endless because another player like any industry will take your paycheck. Bells absence has allowed another player to on the roster getting a paycheck.

 
Do you know how easy it is for a broken leg to end a career? Thomas was lucky it was a clean break.
Name the last 5

Not to mention he could still have that happen while only getting like 6 million this year instead of 15 million.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree to a certain point, but the truly special players are the different. Bell us one of those guys. Like Gurley, like Peterson was. Etc. 
He's a special player, no doubt.  But the Steelers already have not one but two other special players locked up with huge contracts.

I've said it before - Gurley got his deal, but the Rams aren't paying a franchise QB yet.  Johnson got his deal, but the Cardinals aren't paying a franchise QB yet.  Mack got his deal, but the Bears aren't paying a franchise QB yet. Whether people want it to or not, the salary cap matters.

It's debatable as to what his value truly is because not all teams would even consider placing that kind of a premium on a RB, but what a team "should" pay a guy can't be looked at in a vacuum.

 
I seriously hope he goes to the Jets. It would be so...so Jet-like. You have two serviceable backs and stacked boxes because of your QB and you get Bell. 

That Mehta has reported that they're even thinking about it reeks of Woody Johnson fingerprints. 

Just no need for them to sign a back at that rate when they have line problems regardless.  

eta* We'd really see Bell's value behind a bad line then, because I think it's reasonably safe to say that the Jets have a bad line right now.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What am I missing here?

The Saints moved a 3rd rounder next year for Teddy Bridgewater, who's on a $6M contract and unsigned for next year. All they got for their 3rd round pick was a backup QB with no guarantee of him being willing or interested in signing long term before hitting free agency, and with Brees around, that's highly questionable. I guess there's always a chance that Teddy said he'd agree to sign long term, but I can't imagine a scenario where he agrees to hold a clipboard if he can start elsewhere.

In Bell's case, I can't imagine why a team that feels they're a RB away from being a legit contender would be hesitant to fork over plenty more than that for Bell, who'd be owed roughly $8M or $9M for the rest of this season if he reports for week 8.  Bell can have an infinitely bigger impact on 2018 than Bridgewater will unless Brees gets hurt.

I'm probably missing something, but I really hope Bell doesn't suit up for the Steelers at all this year.  I don't think he can be trusted when he focus is entirely on his contract next year.

 
What am I missing here?

The Saints moved a 3rd rounder next year for Teddy Bridgewater, who's on a $6M contract and unsigned for next year. All they got for their 3rd round pick was a backup QB with no guarantee of him being willing or interested in signing long term before hitting free agency, and with Brees around, that's highly questionable. I guess there's always a chance that Teddy said he'd agree to sign long term, but I can't imagine a scenario where he agrees to hold a clipboard if he can start elsewhere.

In Bell's case, I can't imagine why a team that feels they're a RB away from being a legit contender would be hesitant to fork over plenty more than that for Bell, who'd be owed roughly $8M or $9M for the rest of this season if he reports for week 8.  Bell can have an infinitely bigger impact on 2018 than Bridgewater will unless Brees gets hurt.

I'm probably missing something, but I really hope Bell doesn't suit up for the Steelers at all this year.  I don't think he can be trusted when he focus is entirely on his contract next year.
Perhaps it’s that Bell could be out of shape. Or won’t give 100%. Or not report. Or fake an injury. Or fail a drug test. Or be a diva. Or be a cancer in the clubhouse. Or be a me first player. Or they know they aren’t going to pay him past this year. There are any number of reasons why a team wouldn’t offer much. If you watched football this past weekend, running the football didn’t seem like it was much of a priority.

 
First, I'll believe it when I see it. He originally said he'd be there week 1, so "something extraordinary" could happen again and keep him away. 

Second, if he does come back and isn't traded, I think he talks with his teammates and it's business as usual. I think the team doing terrible has softened, not hardened them. They'll want whatever they can get to try and win more games and will be more than willing to forgive and forget.

Third, at this point idk that I would even be shocked if he resigned with the Steelers next year. They Transition tag him, and then match whatever deal. It's not very likely, but this whole ordeal has been weird so I'm beginning to think that anything can happen.

Fourth, he could be traded at any time. 

 
So where is he going?! Thoughts?
Nowhere. Will report in few weeks... play out the season in Pittsburgh. And stay there (going forward).

I would be very surprised if he somehow ends up playing elsewhere for this huge, guaranteed, multi-year contract that he dreams about.

 
Seems somewhat similar to the Duane Brown situation last year, who sat out until the game prior to the trade deadline (which is essentially the case here) and was traded the day after he played.

Maybe Bell is doing this to showcase himself to potential trade partners, since the trade deadline is the Tuesday following week 8's matchup vs CLE? 

 
And again.......why would the Steelers put him on the field when he & his agent both said he is preserving his body. No way will there be any kind of honest effort.  Why do people not grasp this?

 
Perhaps it’s that Bell could be out of shape. Or won’t give 100%. Or not report. Or fake an injury. Or fail a drug test. Or be a diva. Or be a cancer in the clubhouse. Or be a me first player. Or they know they aren’t going to pay him past this year. There are any number of reasons why a team wouldn’t offer much. If you watched football this past weekend, running the football didn’t seem like it was much of a priority.
Agreed on all of that, to a point.  But I suppose the impact you can get from a starting, elite RB over a backup QB should mitigate at least a chunk of that risk.

And with Bell, it's not just about running the football.  His value is more because he's a great receiver, not just a good runner.

 
He is embarrassing himself at this point.  He is coming off as complete nut job. 
It is business.  They are negotiating.  What you see happening right now is a result of both sides looking out for their own best interests.  Both sides seeking to get the most they can out of the situation.

I negotiate a lot in my work.  I can't recall an adult ever calling the other side of a business negotiation names or insult them.... that would be nuts, and embarrassing.

 
And again.......why would the Steelers put him on the field when he & his agent both said he is preserving his body. No way will there be any kind of honest effort.  Why do people not grasp this?
Because they're currently below .500 w/ huge division games coming up vs CIN (wk 6), CLE (wk 8), and BAL (wk 9). They lose two of the three and they're chances of making the playoffs are likely shot. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top