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Le'Veon Bell


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8 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

I might be in the minority, but I'm a Steelers fan who would be happy to see him back in the lineup. He stayed away and could have helped us had a better record, we'll never know. But as soon as he's back with the team, I'm willing to forgive and forget (any perceived slight even if it's not real). 

Reminds me of James Harrison. He was a bit of a jerk, went to our arch rival, and bad mouthed the Steelers. Now he's retired; idgaf what he did. He's a Steelers great and I'll remember him as such.

When Bell comes back, if he plays well, I'll welcome him back wholeheartedly. 

It will be interesting to see what he does in his return.  His averages were down last year, but his total numbers were boosted by an increase in volume.  Was it more caution not to get hurt, conditioning, or simply variance?

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3 hours ago, Dizzy said:

So to be clear... you are disputing (or dismissing) the report from Monday that specifically says that they did in fact contact Bell?

Interesting. What are you doing here with us schlepps if you've got this kind of insight?

Link? Everything I'm reading today says nobody in the organization has had any contact with him.

https://twitter.com/EdBouchette/status/1047570187057332230

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2 hours ago, Donkey Derp said:

The best piece of advice in this thread on what should be ignored is five years old.

Oh my.  You are so desperate to avoid admitting you were wrong, you go back through 5 years of my posts to find one you can take out of context & try to ignore your errors.  That reeks of sadness.  

Its just a FF message board; don’t take it so seriously.  You let an outlier of a ridiculously small sample size lead you to a bad conclusion.  There’s no need to go back half a decade to try to obscure that.

He’ll be back soon (although I’ll believe it when he actually reports); lets focus on the NFL & fantasy implications of that.

 

 

Edited by Bayhawks
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This has really turned into a labor/management issue, which, to me, doesn't recognize the ramifications of a lot of things within labor law. The Steelers are confined by the CBA. So is Bell. It's almost a no-fault divorce. Imagine a whole society has determined the rules you live by to be successful and if you can't do that you must part ways in order for one of you to thrive and you hate the other so much that you withhold labor and payment and...

Oh, wait. 

Nice predicament we've gotten ourselves into.  

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

Oh my.  You are so desperate to avoid admitting you were wrong, you go back through 5 years of my posts to find one you can take out of context & try to ignore your errors.  That reeks of sadness.  

Its just a FF message board; don’t take it so seriously.  You let an outlier of a ridiculously small sample size lead you to a bad conclusion.  There’s no need to go back half a decade to try to obscure that.

He’ll be back soon (although I’ll believe it when he actually reports); lets focus on the NFL & fantasy implications of that.

 

 

Actually, I was curious to see what people said in 2013 about Bell and not surprised to see you were annoying the #### out of people back then too.

:lmao: at admitting I am wrong after four games.  I love how you are a hypocrite when it comes to small sample sizes.  

Conner is the sixth ranked PPR RB.  Every player ahead of him was drafted in the first round.  Yeah, I am devastated about defending Conner so far. :lmao: 

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23 minutes ago, Donkey Derp said:

Actually, I was curious to see what people said in 2013 about Bell and not surprised to see you were annoying the #### out of people back then too.

:lmao: at admitting I am wrong after four games.  I love how you are a hypocrite when it comes to small sample sizes.  

Conner is the sixth ranked PPR RB.  Every player ahead of him was drafted in the first round.  Yeah, I am devastated about defending Conner so far. :lmao: 

All right; it’s OK buddy.

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Report: Eagles Have Been Mulling Trading For Bell ‘For A While’

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...a Wednesday report/speculation from Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports, the Philadelphia Eagles might be the team most-likely to deal for him.

“If I am the Eagles, who have been mulling the potential of a Bell trade for a while now, nothing I saw last Sunday would curb my interest,” La Canfora wrote on Wednesday about Philadelphia possibly trading for the Steelers running back. “In fact, it would only heighten my desire to acquire a player of this impact given the way the defending Super Bowl champions have limped through the first quarter of the season. A year ago, they stirred things up and dealt for Jay Ajayi; a Bell trade midseason this year could boost them even further.”

...the Eagles would probably be a reasonable trade partner for the Steelers when it comes to Bell, all things considered.

In case you haven’t been keeping up with the Eagles the last few weeks, their top three running backs, Jay Ajayi (back), Darren Sproles (hamstring), and Corey Clement (quad) have all been dealing with injuries to start the season. Ajayi, their top back, however, is not currently on the team’s Week 5 injury report, so there’s that to consider.

 

 

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Bell says - I’m reporting during the bye
Translation- I’m reporting before trade deadline, you have 3 weeks to work a trade

Bell says- I think a 2nd rounder too high a price to pay for a rental
Translation- lower your asking price, make a trade happen

Bell says- I want to retire a Steeler
Translation- Get me out of Pittsburgh ASAP

Bell says- I’m doing this for those who come after me
Translation- I’m doing this for me

Bell says- I believe I can work out a deal with Pittsburgh 
Translation- been 2 years, definitely can’t work out a deal with Pittsburgh but I can with another team

Such a shame Earl Thomas got hurt, that swap made so much sense on so many levels. 

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21 minutes ago, bigupsetter said:

Bell says - I’m reporting during the bye
Translation- I’m reporting before trade deadline, you have 3 weeks to work a trade

Bell says- I think a 2nd rounder too high a price to pay for a rental
Translation- lower your asking price, make a trade happen

Bell says- I want to retire a Steeler
Translation- Get me out of Pittsburgh ASAP

Bell says- I’m doing this for those who come after me
Translation- I’m doing this for me

Bell says- I believe I can work out a deal with Pittsburgh 
Translation- been 2 years, definitely can’t work out a deal with Pittsburgh but I can with another team

Such a shame Earl Thomas got hurt, that swap made so much sense on so many levels. 

:lmao:

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16 minutes ago, Donkey Derp said:

The Steelers implied team total of 30.5 tomorrow is higher than any game where Bell started.  He's so amazing you guys. :lmao: 

That is your argument? They have a higher implied total than anytime Bell played, for one game, that hasn't been played yet. You are really bad at trolling.

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“There is a new report out from Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk in which he claims the guaranteed money offered to Pittsburgh Steelers running back Le’Veon Bell was much more than the amount he has claimed.

Based on Florio’s sources, the offer Pittsburgh gave to Bell included a $10 million signing bonus in addition to a $10 million roster bonus. Once you figure in his base salary, he would have been looking at nearly $21 million guaranteed in the first year alone.”

Not that it matters at this point but the people implying the Steelers were screwing Bell by offering less guaranteed than the franchise tag were way off.

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

“There is a new report out from Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk in which he claims the guaranteed money offered to Pittsburgh Steelers running back Le’Veon Bell was much more than the amount he has claimed.

Based on Florio’s sources, the offer Pittsburgh gave to Bell included a $10 million signing bonus in addition to a $10 million roster bonus. Once you figure in his base salary, he would have been looking at nearly $21 million guaranteed in the first year alone.”

Not that it matters at this point but the people implying the Steelers were screwing Bell by offering less guaranteed than the franchise tag were way off.

Even if that is true. It still pales in comparison with the 30 million that Johnson got and 40 whatever Gurley got. If it is true. 

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Just now, msudaisy26 said:

That is your argument? They have a higher implied total than anytime Bell played, for one game, that hasn't been played yet. You are really bad at trolling.

:lmao: what does "hasn't been played yet" have to do with anything?  Before calling me a troll, maybe you shouldn't be clueless about what I said.

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Just now, Godsbrother said:

“There is a new report out from Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk in which he claims the guaranteed money offered to Pittsburgh Steelers running back Le’Veon Bell was much more than the amount he has claimed.

Based on Florio’s sources, the offer Pittsburgh gave to Bell included a $10 million signing bonus in addition to a $10 million roster bonus. Once you figure in his base salary, he would have been looking at nearly $21 million guaranteed in the first year alone.”

Not that it matters at this point but the people implying the Steelers were screwing Bell by offering less guaranteed than the franchise tag were way off.

Right it does not matter at this point but I always knew it was not $10M.

MJD gave an interview a few weeks ago, and he is notable because he shares Bell's agent, and he said it was $19M guaranteed and he said it in a way that was more like a fact and not him speculating.

 

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1 minute ago, Donkey Derp said:

:lmao: what does "hasn't been played yet" have to do with anything?  Before calling me a troll, maybe you shouldn't be clueless about what I said.

Everyone is clueless about what you said, because it makes no sense. Hope that helps. Have a good night.

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Just now, msudaisy26 said:

Everyone is clueless about what you said, because it makes no sense. Hope that helps. Have a good night.

:mellow: oh, I see your point.  Those guys in Vegas in charge of a multi billion dollar industry are a bunch of ####### idiots.  Any intelligent human being knows to follow random internet strangers and their patented eye tests.

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25 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Even if that is true. It still pales in comparison with the 30 million that Johnson got and 40 whatever Gurley got. If it is true. 

Different players, different situations, different money.

For me everything about this hurts Bell. The game is timeless and ageless. In contrast, he is a rapidly depreciating asset. Tick tock... tick tock..

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Just now, habsfan said:

Different players, different situations, different money.

For me everything about this hurts Bell. The game is timeless and ageless. In contrast, he is a rapidly depreciating asset. Tick tock... tick tock..

Agreed.  I thought from the beginning he screwed up not taking the 15 million.

He risks not only injury but if he doesnt play well when he comes back he is not getting a huge deal in the offseason.

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1 minute ago, ghostguy123 said:

Agreed.  I thought from the beginning he screwed up not taking the 15 million.

He risks not only injury but if he doesnt play well when he comes back he is not getting a huge deal in the offseason.

Ask Kaep or Ray Rice or countless others how fast the game moves on without you.

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9 minutes ago, habsfan said:

Different players, different situations, different money.

For me everything about this hurts Bell. The game is timeless and ageless. In contrast, he is a rapidly depreciating asset. Tick tock... tick tock..

How does everything hurt Bell? The Cardinals had a better reason to not pay Johnson compared the Steelers with Bell. The Cardinals are no where near winning anything. Johnson will most likely be close to 30 when they are close to winning. I am sorry you aren't going to convince me that he is a rapidly depreciating asset because of a 6 game hold out. He will get his money assuming he doesn't suffer a major injury in the last 10ish weeks. Between 2 franchise tags and whatever contract he gets next he is probably going to have 50 to 60 million in guaranteed money. Compared to the 5 year 60 million total contract the Steelers offered him before the start of last year. 

Edited by msudaisy26
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4 minutes ago, habsfan said:

Ask Kaep or Ray Rice or countless others how fast the game moves on without you.

Are you serious here? I am sure there are some comparisons to Bell's spot, but this isn't it and it isn't close.

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1 minute ago, msudaisy26 said:

Are you serious here? I am sure there are some comparisons to Bell's spot, but this isn't it and it isn't close.

If he is handsomely rewarded with a fantastic deal in the off season, I will be back to acknowledge it.

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7 minutes ago, habsfan said:

If he is handsomely rewarded with a fantastic deal in the off season, I will be back to acknowledge it.

We can agree to disagree on whether he gets paid, but you made the comparison of the game passing him by to a guy that opted out of his contract and is extremely controversial and might have been blacked balled, and other guy was out of the league because he knocked out his wife.

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After seeing what happened to earl thomas, what are the chances that when Leveon comes back he has a mysterious injury and can't play? Would he still be an unrestricted free agent as long as he reports? Just wondering because it seems if he sat out this long it would be foolish to risk an injury.

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1 minute ago, msudaisy26 said:

We can agree to disagree on whether he gets paid, but you compared to the game passing him by to a guy that opted out of his contract and is extremely controversial and might have been blacked balled, and other guy was out of the league because he knocked out his wife.

The comparison was an extremely general one. I'm not comparing them as people or players. I'm just saying that the game moves on and we forget about the vast majority of players - great, good or okay. Bell's approach to this is novel and we'll see if it was the right one. 

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Just now, habsfan said:

The comparison was an extremely general one. I'm not comparing them as people or players. I'm just saying that the game moves on and we forget about the vast majority of players - great, good or okay. Bell's approach to this is novel and we'll see if it was the right one. 

The only other person I can remember doing this is Vincent Jackson and it worked out great for him. 

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52 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Even if that is true. It still pales in comparison with the 30 million that Johnson got and 40 whatever Gurley got. If it is true. 

Not that it matters, but Gurley had just shy of $22M fully guaranteed at signing.  The rest were "practical" guarantees that he clearly could've have gotten... similar to what the Steelers offered Bell.  It was a very similar story for Johnson's contract. 

The Steelers offered Bell around $20M guaranteed on a $47M, 3 year contract contract. Obviously not what he wanted, but I'll be shocked if someone guys way above and beyond that when he'll be 27 years old already.

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1 minute ago, msudaisy26 said:

The only other person I can remember doing this is Vincent Jackson and it worked out great for him. 

I'm generally a "pro labour" guy. I just think this is a league that uses backs like Shake N Bake bags. I just don't think this is like a "black book" for cars where you run your finger down a column and see "touches" and assign a value based on that.

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12 minutes ago, habsfan said:

I'm generally a "pro labour" guy. I just think this is a league that uses backs like Shake N Bake bags. I just don't think this is like a "black book" for cars where you run your finger down a column and see "touches" and assign a value based on that.

It only takes one though. McCoy got a 5 year deal at the age 27 for 8 million per. Which was considered a lot for a back at the time. 

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9 minutes ago, Saboo said:

If they Steelers lose the next couple of games what is the point of bringing Bell back? I would trade him for nearly anything once he signs and is back in camp.

They would lose a chance a comp pick. 

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2 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

Great for Jackson, not his team. He sucked and was hurt all the time. Exactly why teams like the Steelers dont cave & give ridiculous contracts.

Actually he was very good until he got hurt at the end. . Then injuries derailed him the last 1.5 years. He played the first 58 games of his deal and average 4.4 catches a game, 73.4 yards a game, and .34 touchdowns per game. Played 16 games the first 3 years and then first 10 the 4th year out of 5 years. So really he was pretty durable and good for most of his contract. Nice try though

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12 hours ago, msudaisy26 said:

Actually he was very good until he got hurt at the end. . Then injuries derailed him the last 1.5 years. He played the first 58 games of his deal and average 4.4 catches a game, 73.4 yards a game, and .34 touchdowns per game. Played 16 games the first 3 years and then first 10 the 4th year out of 5 years. So really he was pretty durable and good for most of his contract. Nice try though

I don't see what is so controversial about the suggestion that giving big money to players on the wrong side of [insert age here] carries a lot of risk. Sometimes the player plays out the deal and the team gets a reasonable ROI but plenty of times they end up with expensive, subpar performance. When they do work out okay, it's generally because the market moves past what they were given, so looking back and not adjusting for that "inflation" the deal ends up looking okay. If Vincent Jackson was "very good" for three and a half years of a five year deal, I don't think that's a shining example of value. If anything, it's example of a contract the team probably wishes had been three years instead. I guess you can throw in the "funny money" argument in football and how years are added to the end of deals that neither party expects to happen but even if you think bad veteran contracts are low frequency events, they're still high magnitude events.

I'm a Jays fan and they paid Donaldson, Tulo and Martin $60MM this year. In return they got an occasional catcher / utility infielder that hit .200, a guy who rehabbed for all but thirty odd games and a guy who didn't play at all. It gets better. They'll be paying two of those three guys this coming year too with little reason to believe they'll get any more performance than they did last year. All three are over 30, just saying'...

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15 hours ago, msudaisy26 said:

Even if that is true. It still pales in comparison with the 30 million that Johnson got and 40 whatever Gurley got. If it is true. 

In the article below it says Pittsburgh offered Bell 10M upon signing and an additional 10M roster bonus due Sept 1 2018 and 47M total in the first three years.  

From an article on SteelersDepot.com -

"

...  Before any of you start commenting about the contracts that were ultimately signed this offseason by fellow NFL running backs Todd Gurley and David Johnson, make sure you have your facts straight when it comes to the “fully guaranteed” money that each was given and the new money cash flow for each.

Gurley’s “fully guaranteed” money that he received when he signed his four-year, $57.5 million contract extension with the Los Angeles Rams on July 25, 2018 was all of $21.95 million and that includes the $21 million signing bonus given to him. The $45 million in total guarantees that was initially reported when Gurley signed his deal is a virtual guarantee total and I bet not many of you have taken the time to read the details of that contract Florio posted a while ago that explains the rolling structure. If you haven’t, shame on you.

As for the three-year, $39 million contract extension that Johnson signed with the Arizona Cardinals on September 10, 2018, his fully guaranteed money in that deal works out to be $24,682,500 and that includes a signing bonus given to him in the amount of $12 million. His injury guarantees work out to be just a little less than $32 million, the first three years of his deal.

From 2018 through 2020, Gurley and Johnson will have earned $40 million and $31.8825 million, respectively, whereas Bell would have reportedly earned $47 million in those same three years had he accepted and signed the contract the Steelers reportedly offered him.  ... "

Full article is here -  

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/10/new-report-says-steelers-final-offer-to-bell-included-47-million-in-first-3-years/

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20 minutes ago, habsfan said:

I don't see what is so controversial about the suggestion that giving big money to players on the wrong side of [insert age here] carries a lot of risk. Sometimes the player plays out the deal and the team gets a reasonable ROI but plenty of times they end up with expensive, subpar performance. When they do work out okay, it's generally because the market moves past what they were given, so looking back and not adjusting for that "inflation" the deal ends up looking okay. If Vincent Jackson was "very good" for three and a half years of a five year deal, I don't think that's a shining example of value. If anything, it's example of a contract the team probably wishes had been three years instead. I guess you can throw in the "funny money" argument in football and how years are added to the end of deals that neither party expects to happen but even if you think bad veteran contracts are low frequency events, they're still high magnitude events.

I'm a Jays fan and they paid Donaldson, Tulo and Martin $60MM this year. In return they got an occasional catcher / utility infielder that hit .200, a guy who rehabbed for all but thirty odd games and a guy who didn't play at all. It gets better. They'll be paying two of those three guys this coming year too with little reason to believe they'll get any more performance than they did last year. All three are over 30, just saying'...

There is nothing wrong with a ROI risk. That isn't what we were talking about. Jackson was really good until he got hurt and you can't predict injuries, it just happens. Especially with Jackson that was a guy that always played 16 games. Plus we weren't arguing ROI. He said Jackson was always hurt and sucked. That just isn't true and he wasn't a major injury concern signing the deal.

As far as your baseball example it is a bad one. The Bucs were so far into Jackson's contract I am sure they could have cut him if they thought he wouldn't return to form and they didn't. In baseball you are stuck paying the guy no matter what.

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2 minutes ago, moondog said:

In the article below it says Pittsburgh offered Bell 10M upon signing and an additional 10M roster bonus due Sept 1 2018 and 47M total in the first three years.  

From an article on SteelersDepot.com -

"

...  Before any of you start commenting about the contracts that were ultimately signed this offseason by fellow NFL running backs Todd Gurley and David Johnson, make sure you have your facts straight when it comes to the “fully guaranteed” money that each was given and the new money cash flow for each.

Gurley’s “fully guaranteed” money that he received when he signed his four-year, $57.5 million contract extension with the Los Angeles Rams on July 25, 2018 was all of $21.95 million and that includes the $21 million signing bonus given to him. The $45 million in total guarantees that was initially reported when Gurley signed his deal is a virtual guarantee total and I bet not many of you have taken the time to read the details of that contract Florio posted a while ago that explains the rolling structure. If you haven’t, shame on you.

As for the three-year, $39 million contract extension that Johnson signed with the Arizona Cardinals on September 10, 2018, his fully guaranteed money in that deal works out to be $24,682,500 and that includes a signing bonus given to him in the amount of $12 million. His injury guarantees work out to be just a little less than $32 million, the first three years of his deal.

From 2018 through 2020, Gurley and Johnson will have earned $40 million and $31.8825 million, respectively, whereas Bell would have reportedly earned $47 million in those same three years had he accepted and signed the contract the Steelers reportedly offered him.  ... "

Full article is here -  

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/10/new-report-says-steelers-final-offer-to-bell-included-47-million-in-first-3-years/

That is nice, we honestly don't know what he was offered. You have different sources saying different things and it changes weekly. Plus I would like to see the cap hit the Steelers would have taken by cutting him after 2 years, but it isn't likely we will ever find that out for sure.

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On 10/2/2018 at 0:45 PM, Bayhawks said:

How could they have?  Up to that point, as @Donkey Derpkept posting, Conner had been better than Bell for the first 3 games of the season, and for the first 3 starts of his career, and he had better numbers in college, and in HS, and in flag football, and in Madden.  So how could the Steelers have known that Bell was better than Conner, and that one outlier game was skewing the small sample size of Conner’s NFL games?  How could they possibly have known this?

If you weren't a clueless troll, you would have at least kept your mouth shut until after the Atlanta game.  

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On 9/27/2018 at 4:41 PM, matuski said:

It isn't even a debate.

No Bell, teams can focus on AB.  Really isn't something to argue.

Conner has been covered by a LB. :shrug:

Juju is indeed better, but that isn't the difference on offense.  Arguing Bell's absence hasn't had a huge impact on the offense is just a weird position to take.

:lmao: how will Brown and their offense ever score without Bell? :lmao: 

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16 minutes ago, Donkey Derp said:

:lmao: how will Brown and their offense ever score without Bell? :lmao: 

Bell >>>> Conner.  PIT with Bell >> PIT with Conner.  Fairly simple.

You know it, they know it, we know it.

But that isn't what you are after here is it?  

 

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