ghostguy123
Footballguy
Say hypothetically the Steelers were to pull the tag and Bell became a FA, how much do you think a team would pay right now, and which teams would be most likely? San Fran? Gurley type deal?
Are you being stupid on purpose? I really hope so.So now he wants to get hurt to make more money. HFS
If that's true, then it was indeed a crap deal.It was originally reported in the 30ish million range, but Rapaport said it wasn't that much a day or 2 later.
Same question.Are you being stupid on purpose? I really hope so.
Not to mention how much guaranteed money a team would not be inclined to pay a RB with 2 straight seasons of 400+ touches.Because it's 10 fewer games? And 10 fewer weeks of practice?
I am on my phone, but I will try to search it later. It was in the thread started by Joe Bryant about how much should Bell be paid.If that's true, then it was indeed a crap deal.
I correct my previous thought.
Or he could get unlucky and blow out his Achilles and never be the same RB again.From a risk/reward perspective, I think it makes the most sense for him to play. Hell, he might get lucky and break his wrist like David Johnson, get his 15 million this year, then get paid next offseason.
I know what is in your head, it isn't possible to trump you.Maybe a little, but you have massively trumped me.
That could also happen when he comes back and plays this year, then he is out 9 million AND a future dealOr he could get unlucky and blow out his Achilles and never be the same RB again.
And not get paid except for this year's franchise tender.
That's why he skipped the banana with the Cheerios this morning. Banana peels are very dangerous when you're not under contract.Or he could get unlucky and blow out his Achilles and never be the same RB again.
And not get paid except for this year's franchise tender.
I can't compete with your troll job. You win.I know what is in your head, it isn't possible to trump you.
Not trolling, just not trying to mislead everyone with made up scenarios about Bell sitting out playoff games and acting like I know what Bell is planning.I can't compete with your troll job. You win.
I did not say that is what he was planning. At all. But go ahead and think I did. You are on a roll.Not trolling, just not trying to mislead everyone with made up scenarios about Bell sitting out playoff games and acting like I know what Bell is planning.
That’s the schtick.Not trolling, just not trying to mislead everyone with made up scenarios about Bell sitting out playoff games and acting like I know what Bell is planning.
It turns out it was $33 million in "rolling guarantees", which is just a fancy way of putting the word guarantee next to something without actually guaranteeing it. Only $10 million was actually fully guaranteed. The rest came via a roster bonus in year two that he could be cut ahead of. IE not guaranteed.I thought it was 33 million in guarantees. That's still a lot of coin for a RB. But it is much less than what Gurley got in guaranteed money......45 million.
And $9MM less. Seems like a bad trade off.Because it's 10 fewer games? And 10 fewer weeks of practice?
Thanks. Wasn't aware of the rolling guarantee. That is a crap deal.It turns out it was $33 million in "rolling guarantees", which is just a fancy way of putting the word guarantee next to something without actually guaranteeing it. Only $10 million was actually fully guaranteed. The rest came via a roster bonus in year two that he could be cut ahead of. IE not guaranteed.
This is why it was obvious that Pitt was just trying to sway public opinion. They conveniently leaked only parts of the offer ($70 million! $33 million guaranteed!) while leaving out important details like the above.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/7/18/17585956/leveon-bell-contract-steelers-offer-guaranteed-money-free-agency
So in reality the fully guaranteed money in the offer was actually $4 million LESS than he gets guaranteed by just signing the franchise tag, which is a laughable joke. The whole point in locking yourself into long term deals with big guarantees is to protect yourself against injury, but if Bell tore his achilles this year Pitt could cut him and he would actually end up with less money than if he just signed the franchise tender and then tore his achilles.
Really, even if the $33 million were an actual real guarantee he'd still probably be better off declining it. You to remember the franchise tender is already worth $14 million guaranteed, so you have to compare it to that. Even at $33 million guaranteed it's still only $19 million more than he gets guaranteed from the tag anyway. Even if he tore his ACL this year he'd probably get more than $19mil guaranteed in a new contract on the open market next year which combined with this year's franchise tag would get him that $33 million guaranteed anyway, and of course he stands to make a whole lot more on the open market if he stays healthy.
At his age a 5 year deal would be essentially the last deal of Bell's career. Even at $33 million guaranteed it makes little sense as he'll make that guaranteed over the next two years anyway even if he gets hurt. So why lock himself out of a huge deal on the open market next year for no gain in return?
Given that the actual number was $10 million and not $33 million, it just changes it from "probably not smart" to "so laughably terrible that they can't have even expected him to ever entertain it".
You act as if that article is the gospel truthIt turns out it was $33 million in "rolling guarantees", which is just a fancy way of putting the word guarantee next to something without actually guaranteeing it. Only $10 million was actually fully guaranteed. The rest came via a roster bonus in year two that he could be cut ahead of. IE not guaranteed.
This is why it was obvious that Pitt was just trying to sway public opinion. They conveniently leaked only parts of the offer ($70 million! $33 million guaranteed!) while leaving out important details like the above.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/7/18/17585956/leveon-bell-contract-steelers-offer-guaranteed-money-free-agency
So in reality the fully guaranteed money in the offer was actually $4 million LESS than he gets guaranteed by just signing the franchise tag, which is a laughable joke. The whole point in locking yourself into long term deals with big guarantees is to protect yourself against injury, but if Bell tore his achilles this year Pitt could cut him and he would actually end up with less money than if he just signed the franchise tender and then tore his achilles.
Really, even if the $33 million were an actual real guarantee he'd still probably be better off declining it. You to remember the franchise tender is already worth $14 million guaranteed, so you have to compare it to that. Even at $33 million guaranteed it's still only $19 million more than he gets guaranteed from the tag anyway. Even if he tore his ACL this year he'd probably get more than $19mil guaranteed in a new contract on the open market next year which combined with this year's franchise tag would get him that $33 million guaranteed anyway, and of course he stands to make a whole lot more on the open market if he stays healthy.
At his age a 5 year deal would be essentially the last deal of Bell's career. Even at $33 million guaranteed it makes little sense as he'll make that guaranteed over the next two years anyway even if he gets hurt. So why lock himself out of a huge deal on the open market next year for no gain in return?
Given that the actual number was $10 million and not $33 million, it just changes it from "probably not smart" to "so laughably terrible that they can't have even expected him to ever entertain it".
I think Le'Veon just crawled into the fetal position.And $9MM less.
Maybe it’s not, but Pittsburgh has not denied one bit of it. You’d think if it was inaccurate, they’d say so, especially since they had no problem letting the original report leak out.You act as if that article is the gospel truth
I can’t see that happening. If he sits out the season, he won’t be a FA next year. If he reports for 6 games, he will (unless Pitt franchises him a 3rd time for close to $25M).Rumor now has it that he is preparing to sit out this season.
No I would not in anyway expect the Steelers to validate a report on contract negotiations nor can I recall them ever addressing a report such as this or ever publicly discussing contract numbers. Now if the player or his agent publicly said false numbers then maybe the Steelers might set the record straight so on that note has Bell or his agent verified any of these numbers? I'm thinking no.Maybe it’s not, but Pittsburgh has not denied one bit of it. You’d think if it was inaccurate, they’d say so, especially since they had no problem letting the original report leak out.
Where do you think Rapaport got the initial $70M offer numbers from? Two sides knew of the offer; Bell turned it down-it would make no sense to leak those details while leaving out the fact that there was only $10M in real guaranteed money. So it had to come from the Steelers. And, Bell’s agent did verify that the reason Bell didn’t sign the contract is because there was no guaranteed money after year one. According to your previous post, the Steelers would correct a player/agent putting out false info, yet they have not done so, therefore it stands to reason that his agent (and this article) is accurate.menobrown said:No I would not in anyway expect the Steelers to validate a report on contract negotiations nor can I recall them ever addressing a report such as this or ever publicly discussing contract numbers. Now if the player or his agent publicly said false numbers then maybe the Steelers might set the record straight so on that note has Bell or his agent verified any of these numbers? I'm thinking no.
As a bell & conner owner, i will 100% welcome a bell trade ASAPSaboo said:The more I read about this, the more I think Bell will be missing some time this season. He has a valid argument and he may just be willing to miss a few game checks to point out the inequity of the the franchise tag. I’d be upset as well if I was being asked to put my long term health both physically and financially on the line in exchange for a single season of paychecks.
I think it’s likely that Bell is attempting to get himself traded.
You are probably right. It's just a rumor I was trying to get started.Bayhawks said:I can’t see that happening. If he sits out the season, he won’t be a FA next year. If he reports for 6 games, he will (unless Pitt franchises him a 3rd time for close to $25M).
You are probably right. It's just a rumor I was trying to get started.
Green Bay has the draft capital and cap space to make that happen. and especially the needSaboo said:I think it’s likely that Bell is attempting to get himself traded.
What does the article have to do with anything? The important part is the tweet where Rappaport admits that the fully guaranteed part was actually only $10m, which also falls in line with what Bell's agent said a few days later that the guaranteed money was poor.menobrown said:You act as if that article is the gospel truth
I have no idea where Raparport got he his info but let's not pretend he is always accurate either.Where do you think Rapaport got the initial $70M offer numbers from? Two sides knew of the offer; Bell turned it down-it would make no sense to leak those details while leaving out the fact that there was only $10M in real guaranteed money. So it had to come from the Steelers. And, Bell’s agent did verify that the reason Bell didn’t sign the contract is because there was no guaranteed money after year one. According to your previous post, the Steelers would correct a player/agent putting out false info, yet they have not done so, therefore it stands to reason that his agent (and this article) is accurate.
C my quote above... make it happenGreen Bay has the draft capital and cap space to make that happen. and especially the need
Rap's tweet is part of the basis of the article. I don't buy his tweet "reporting" as gospel.What does the article have to do with anything? The important part is the tweet where Rappaport admits that the fully guaranteed part was actually only $10m, which also falls in line with what Bell's agent said a few days later that the guaranteed money was poor.
I just figured of all the articles that contained the tweet I'd give this guy the link hit since he was one of the early ones to see through the illusion from Pitt. But the article really just conceptualizes the same points that several of us were making in the Le'Veon contract thread before this article even came out. Go back and read through the thread and you'll see I was suspicious of the initial report all along while Rappaport was using phrases like "as I understand it" and "rolling guarantee" even before it came out that the full guarantee was only $10m.
Bell’s agent said this during a Sirius radio interview in July; the 19th, I believe.I have no idea where Raparport got he his info but let's not pretend he is always accurate either.
Of course both sides knew the offers, does not mean the media knows the offers. Just a bunch of conjecture.
Can you cite me where Bell's agent said there are no guarantees past year one? Because if not there is nothing for the Steelers to confirm or deny and I'm guessing there is not anything you can find to back up this claim.
Been wondering same thing.I am sure this has been addressed, but if Bell is traded, can the new team negotiate a deal right away?
He can’t be traded; he’s not under contract.I am sure this has been addressed, but if Bell is traded, can the new team negotiate a deal right away?
I know this wasn't directed at me but while I don't think the agent necessarily specified how the guarantees broke down year to year, he did say basically the same thing we're all saying here (and were saying even before this report came out), that the Steelers were playing shenanigans with fake guarantee structures.I have no idea where Raparport got he his info but let's not pretend he is always accurate either.
Of course both sides knew the offers, does not mean the media knows the offers. Just a bunch of conjecture.
Can you cite me where Bell's agent said there are no guarantees past year one? Because if not there is nothing for the Steelers to confirm or deny and I'm guessing there is not anything you can find to back up this claim.
If they did a sign and trade thingHe can’t be traded; he’s not under contract.
Fair enough. Regardless the whole basis for the original discussion was that Bell was crazy to turn down the offer that Rap reported, and now that we know the full details of the offer Rap was reporting he was clearly not crazy to turn that down if that was in fact the deal. You're right that we can't verify the accuracy of Rap's report.Rap's tweet is part of the basis of the article. I don't buy his tweet "reporting" as gospel.
Was Mack?He can’t be traded; he’s not under contract.
Thanks and I see no place where his agent said no guarantees existed in year two. All I'm seeing is not enough guarantees or fully guaranteed and of course that's the reason he did not sign. If they tried to insult him wtih a $10M signing bonus when he was already guaranteed almost $15M I'd find that offer insulting and I don't think the negotiations went that direction.I know this wasn't directed at me but while I don't think the agent necessarily specified how the guarantees broke down year to year, he did say basically the same thing we're all saying here (and were saying even before this report came out), that the Steelers were playing shenanigans with fake guarantee structures.
“The Steelers have a unique way of structuring deals,” Bakari said. “These contracts are not fully guaranteed. Le’Veon plays a position that has one of the shortest lifespans in the league. We have to focus on the guarantee. It’s safe to say he’ll get a guarantee [as a free agent] that is more traditional, and he’ll be protected for the balance of his career.”
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/07/17/Le-Veon-Bell-Adisa-Bakari-Steelers-franchise-tag-running-back/stories/201807170123
There is also this report that stipulates that Pitt's unique contract structure only actually fully guarantees the signing bonus, and the signing bonus on this offer was reported as $10m.
"The structure of the offer was a big obstacle that couldn't be overcome. This is because Pittsburgh contracts typically have a vanilla structure. With the exception of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, the only guaranteed money in Pittsburgh deals is a signing bonus. Roethlisberger's base-salary guarantees are for injury only. The bigger deals contain a third- or fifth-day-of-the-league-year roster bonus in the second and third years. The roster bonuses are supposed to be substitutes for additional contract guarantees. The overall guarantees in Pittsburgh contracts are usually less than comparable deals to those of other teams.
Bell's reported $10 million signing bonus seems low by Pittsburgh standards. Brown received a $19 million signing bonus, which is his only true guaranteed money. His deal also had $6 million and $2.5 million fifth-day-of-the-league-year roster bonuses in 2018 and 2019. The $10 million-per-year extension All-Pro guard David DeCastrosigned right before the start of the 2016 regular season had $16 million treated as signing bonus under the salary cap."
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-why-there-isnt-a-new-leveon-bell-deal-and-what-comes-next-for-him/
Can you cite me where Bell's agent said there are no guarantees past year one? Because if not there is nothing for the Steelers to confirm or deny and I'm guessing there is not anything you can find to back up this claim.
I continue to say we don't know the full details, we only know what Rap is reporting.Fair enough. Regardless the whole basis for the original discussion was that Bell was crazy to turn down the offer thate accuracy of Rap' Rap reported, and now that we know the full details of the offer Rap was reporting he was clearly not crazy to turn that down if that was in fact the deal. You're right that we can't verify ths report.
yes.. he has to play 6 games.So if he can't be traded what are the scenarios that end with him on another team? Play enough to get credit for the season and then become a FA next year?