BobbyLayne
Footballguy
FTR, not bad reporting - just a BS post from another forearm.
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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The whole logic is faulty, even if the Jets were following Bell on IG.... so what.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That’s fair, but it’s also true of the team, if the risk exists it exists for them as well. And unfortunately as much as I love the golden age of RBs the NFL has concluded that special RBs... aren’t that hard to replace.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Riggins left camp one summer & the Redskins put him on the voluntarily retired list. Missed an entire season. Came back a year later & had 5 monter seasons in his 30s - think he still holds a bunch of “oldest RB to....” records, in addition to being one of the best postseason performers of all-time.
Yeah, totally different era & Bell is only 26, but from a long term, non-Steelers perspective, missing ten games could extend his career & will obviously make him way more attractive next year than another 420 touch season would.
I never begrudge players anything they try to get. Their world can be taken away from them in one play. Players have an extremely tight window to maximize their earnings & are at a disadvantage in negotiations far too often. Slotted into starting salaries, stars working through their prime on cheap rookie contracts, LT deals virtually meaningless because so little of the money is guaranteed, & the oft-heard “RBs are devalued in today’s NFL.”
Get all you can, Le’Veon. Do right by your family first.
Yeah, totally different era & Bell is only 26, but from a long term, non-Steelers perspective, missing ten games could extend his career & will obviously make him way more attractive next year than another 420 touch season would.
I never begrudge players anything they try to get. Their world can be taken away from them in one play. Players have an extremely tight window to maximize their earnings & are at a disadvantage in negotiations far too often. Slotted into starting salaries, stars working through their prime on cheap rookie contracts, LT deals virtually meaningless because so little of the money is guaranteed, & the oft-heard “RBs are devalued in today’s NFL.”
Get all you can, Le’Veon. Do right by your family first.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/leveon-bell-contract-holdout-steelers-options-choices-update/12a8dl9dofk5u1o7r2mmzsgu3x
Also Article 10 Section 2 of the CBA:
(k) Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year.
They can, see above, in the form of a 1 year contract.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Thank you for this one. I have been speculating for weeks/months in a few threads that this may be the case, so it's nice to see some confirmation on this.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I totally respect the points about Bell's health, future and his family. Totally.
Ok, but - how many RBs have had extended success in two places? Riggins was underutilized with the Jets. It was the Redskins who crafted that fantastic offense that he was so integral to. - Eric Dickerson comes to mind. Marcus Allen. Corey Dillon. Curtis Martin. Hmmm post Tiger game maybe the noggin ain't dialing up other names from the past but they are far between and few I think.
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H.Wiggen
Footballguy
Good point here but just for fun I'll add Otis Anderson and Jerome Bettis to the list. And Marshal Faulk.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Faulk, Dunn, McGhahee, Waters off the top of my head? McCoy? Lynch?
Moot point but Riggins was top ten in yds/g 3 of his 5 years with the Jets. Missed the club rushing record by 4 yards his second year, couple of injury plagued seasons, first 1K back his last year (only Pro Bowl.) His Redskins tenure was twice as long & far superior, but younger, mohawk John was a bad man.
Those were all losing teams, and as an expert in what bad franchises look like, I can tell you the Jets in the 70s were Lions-like in their futility - not one season above .500. IDK why because I’ve only always rooted for Detroit teams but I had a crush on the Jets, Mets & the Nets in junior high (B’way Joe, Tom Terrific & Dr J.)
Anyway, I think Bell will become the 37th player to have 1K rushing yards seasons with 2 or more teams. Only two guys did it with 3 different clubs.
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msommer
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
1. He doesn't need to have success at stop #2 to get paid.
2. Point #1 wouldn't be all encompassing if the Stillers hadn't lowballed the #### out of him up until now.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Yeah, there’s like no rbs that have had success in 2 different places. Except this list of hall of gamers. Even Ricky Williams, watters, Thomas jones, marshawn lynch, priest holmes, I mean, there’s like no chance he puts up any numbers. No one has ever done it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yeah maybe they are just doing it for the pictures of him wearing yoga pants.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Seems to me like both sides are doing the right thing.
Bell should and maybe is doing what's best for him, and I think the Steelers are too. I can see not wanting to give big long-term guaranteed money to a RB. Just the way it goes with RB's, and IMO, the smarter teams are far less likely to do it. Honestly, I think it's generally something that poorly run teams that just need to sell jerseys do.
Just doesn't seem like a good player/team fit. It would've been nice if PIT had traded him in the off-season when they reasonably could've, but I guess they thought he'd be back (and I'd still guess he's back well before Week 10).
Football RB is a tricky career choice.
Bell should and maybe is doing what's best for him, and I think the Steelers are too. I can see not wanting to give big long-term guaranteed money to a RB. Just the way it goes with RB's, and IMO, the smarter teams are far less likely to do it. Honestly, I think it's generally something that poorly run teams that just need to sell jerseys do.
Just doesn't seem like a good player/team fit. It would've been nice if PIT had traded him in the off-season when they reasonably could've, but I guess they thought he'd be back (and I'd still guess he's back well before Week 10).
Football RB is a tricky career choice.
“I told you RB’s aren’t important in today’s NFL!”
”I told you RB’s are still important in today’s NFL!”
That one guy
Footballguy
I’m rooting for Bell in the grand scheme of things, though communication of intentions probably could’ve been handled better. I’m pissed the Steelers didn’t lock him down with a better contract. I understand the business angle arguments, mostly agree with them in general theory, but sometimes when you’re team is sitting prime in a short window for Super Bowl wins you throw caution to the wind and go for gold. It’s an unfortunate conservative approach, IMO (obviously if they win the SB I’ll be wrong, but won’t care because Go Steelers!)
From a fantasy perspective, I hope he sits out the extended period, Conner does well enough for the team not to bring in serious competition next year, Bell gets his big contract elsewhere, and I’m sitting on a top end RB1 and RB2 next year without having used any extra team capital
From a fantasy perspective, I hope he sits out the extended period, Conner does well enough for the team not to bring in serious competition next year, Bell gets his big contract elsewhere, and I’m sitting on a top end RB1 and RB2 next year without having used any extra team capital
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Have to think the DJ contract increases his resolve. 24 million at signing.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This is a really interesting situation. I see both sides and don't blame either side for their stance.
msommer
Footballguy
To some extent I agree. Where I differ is with Bell's assertion that he should be paid like a WR. Not because he doesn't deserve it to some extent, having been so prolific, but because one person does not a market make. We'll see if he gets WR money from his next club (I don't consider the Gurley or DJ contracts WR money)
Spike
Footballguy
As someone who drafted Bell early in a redraft, I will admit to being pissed off he's doing this.
To whomever it was who basically said, "It's the fault of those who picked him and didn't see he was going to do this holdout thing", I come back with Bell himself who had been saying multiple times the last few months, "I know I am not coming back in 2019 but I'm going to have my BEST season EVER!".
It's easy to find those comments by Bell.
To whomever it was who basically said, "It's the fault of those who picked him and didn't see he was going to do this holdout thing", I come back with Bell himself who had been saying multiple times the last few months, "I know I am not coming back in 2019 but I'm going to have my BEST season EVER!".
It's easy to find those comments by Bell.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Haha, pretty much.
It's easy to forget how their offense didn't miss a beat a few years back when DeAngelo Williams had to fill in for Bell in September. Heck, DeAngelo looked all-world. If Connor and Samuels do a good job at RB for the Steelers, which I suspect they will, the Steelers will look smart.
Titletown_Favres
Footballguy
Would Pit be dumb to restructer say a 1 year deal incentive base on number carries such as he can earn up to 18-20 M this year only if they run him into ground?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Bell seems to need the guarantee. That isn't a guarantee. If he sustained a serious injury at any point (or even a 2 week injury) along the way he wouldnt get those incentives.
If they offered Bell 18-20 million fully guaranteed starting in like week 3 or whatever, then who knows.
At this point though, even if their RBs all suck, I still cant see the Steelers make that kind of move.
Steeler
Footballguy
The Steelers have a long-standing policy that they don't negotiate contracts once the regular season starts. So even though they can give Bell more $ per the rules of the franchise tag, they won't do it. Also, it really doesn't make sense for them to all of a sudden change their minds about Bell's value to the Steelers after negotiating with Bell the last 2 off seasons.
Was the following ever confirmed (link is from July 17)?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leveon-bell-reportedly-turned-down-a-monstrous-70-million-deal-from-the-steelers/
"We can probably all agree that $70 million is a lot of money, but apparently, it wasn't enough to get Le'Veon Bell to sign a new deal in Pittsburgh.
According to NFL.com, the Steelers made one final offer to Bell on Monday, just hours before the NFL's 4 p.m. ET deadline for teams to negotiate a new contract with their franchise player. The offer from the Steelers was worth a total of $70 million over five years (or $14 million per season). Although the offer would have given Bell the largest multi-year contract of any running back in the NFL, he turned it down, and one reason he likely did that, is because it was nowhere near his asking price, which was reportedly in the neighborhood of $17 million per season.
One other reason Bell might have turned the deal down is because it apparently wasn't loaded with any substantial guarantees. According to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, the contract included $33 million in guaranteed money, which was going to be paid out over the first two years. Rapoport also noted that the first three years of the deal would pay out $45 million (or $15 million per season), but didn't note if all of that money was guaranteed. As for the final two years of the deal, it seems that Bell had no guaranteed money. Of course, none of this matters now, since Bell didn't take the offer. "
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leveon-bell-reportedly-turned-down-a-monstrous-70-million-deal-from-the-steelers/
"We can probably all agree that $70 million is a lot of money, but apparently, it wasn't enough to get Le'Veon Bell to sign a new deal in Pittsburgh.
According to NFL.com, the Steelers made one final offer to Bell on Monday, just hours before the NFL's 4 p.m. ET deadline for teams to negotiate a new contract with their franchise player. The offer from the Steelers was worth a total of $70 million over five years (or $14 million per season). Although the offer would have given Bell the largest multi-year contract of any running back in the NFL, he turned it down, and one reason he likely did that, is because it was nowhere near his asking price, which was reportedly in the neighborhood of $17 million per season.
One other reason Bell might have turned the deal down is because it apparently wasn't loaded with any substantial guarantees. According to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, the contract included $33 million in guaranteed money, which was going to be paid out over the first two years. Rapoport also noted that the first three years of the deal would pay out $45 million (or $15 million per season), but didn't note if all of that money was guaranteed. As for the final two years of the deal, it seems that Bell had no guaranteed money. Of course, none of this matters now, since Bell didn't take the offer. "
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
All speculative and all from Rapoport. No one knows the truth, yet, has the audacity to come here and say the Steelers low balled him which is bull ####. The Steelers may not go break the bank like the old Dan Snyder Redskins and current LA Rams are but they have maybe the longest history of getting long term deals done with their superstars. The faux shock and outrage at the Steelers is absurd. Just look at the way Gurley’s contract is structured: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/todd-gurley-16734/
It’s essentially a three year extension much in the same vein DJ’s contract which just happened to be a straight up three year extension. His full guarantees that aren’t roster bonuses is $21 mil. These arguments are lame and lazy. There is no way the Steelers weren’t at least doing $30 mil in the first two years of that contract offer if the offer is what it was said to be. And since it was Rapoport who will just put numbers in a tweet, #### up the details and fix it late hard to know what the truth is.
gethugefast1
Footballguy
yea, all you needed to comment was the first line... just like the speculation (flip a coin), he might show up yesterday
So, what you’re saying is you can’t find a link with any quote supporting your speculation that the Steelers offered more than $10M fully guaranteed?
Underachievers
Footballguy
Can we all just agree that Bell is a whiny little ##### who isn't worth the money that he is apparently demanding?
gethugefast1
Footballguy
Football Jones
Footballguy
I haven't been closely following Bell's contract issues. How much different is DJ's contract than what Bell wants & what was offered by the Steelers?
Anybody know how much was guaranteed with DJ's contract?
Anybody know how much was guaranteed with DJ's contract?
We don’t know what he’s worth, because he’s never had the chance to find out.
We CAN agree that the Steelers are a cheap franchise that has put the ability to save a few bucks (relatively-speaking) over what had been a very realistic chance at another SB.
Steeler
Footballguy
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Steelers have no intention of trading holdout RB Le'Veon Bell.
Bell has yet to sign his franchise tender and has given no indication of when he might return. Despite his continued absence and the distraction it's created, the Steelers are "not even considering" a trade and are willing to wait as long as it takes for Bell to show up. Per Schefter, there's optimism Bell will report by the end of September. In the meantime, the Steelers will turn to James Conner at running back. Sep 9 - 10:12 AM
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell
Bell has yet to sign his franchise tender and has given no indication of when he might return. Despite his continued absence and the distraction it's created, the Steelers are "not even considering" a trade and are willing to wait as long as it takes for Bell to show up. Per Schefter, there's optimism Bell will report by the end of September. In the meantime, the Steelers will turn to James Conner at running back. Sep 9 - 10:12 AM
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell
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Underachievers
Footballguy
Titletown_Favres
Footballguy
Previously Pit offered Bell more than DJ ARZ just got ... LB is delusional
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Not sure he sees too much more than that. Will be 26.5 years old, with tons of touches and multiple suspensions on his record. Age and mileage will limit the duration of the deal, and I think history of suspensions/holdouts will limit the yearly rate.
I do think they’ll (have to) be generous with guaranteed money to land him.
massraider
Footballguy
The best RB in the league isn't with a big deal? That's an unusual stance.
Look, the nature of the RB position is that it's tough for them to get big contracts. There's always some rookie making 800 grand who comes in and kills it. It's smart business to do what the Steelers are doing. The market is saturated with good young RBs, and you can always pull a decent guy in free agency.
You take any other position, and if the NFL deemed their careers over at 28, like the NFL pretty much does, you would see a lot more whiny little #####es.
Just because the system currently allows almost every other position to cash in more than RB doesn't mean Bell has to like it, or accept it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don’t get why people seem ok with Sammy Watkins getting $16MM a year from KC but stick with a stance that Bell isn’t worth what he wants. Bell is not only one of the best runners in the league but will have receiving stats close to Watkins.
Wouldn’t give him $2M more to meet his needs, likely costing them a shot at SB?
Greedy little d*******s.
It works both ways, guy.
massraider
Footballguy
This reminds me of the Emmitt Smith holdout, 1993 or so.
Emmitt sat out two games, and the Cowboys ran out and gave him a big deal. This is very different, in that Bell CANNOT get a new deal, but if Bell is really angry he could be thinking this:
No long term deal, and they gonna run me into the ground, trying to win a title, then cut me loose? Maybe I'll sit out enough games to cost them home field advantage.
He's gonna cost himself 800 grand a week, and that's a lot, but you can cut that amount in half, with taxes and such. It's not like Bell is banking 800 grand a week. Maybe he figures he'll make it up, by not having 350 touches on his 2018 resume, and being more attractive in free agency.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I don’t understand why either side is being a turd. Steelers made a decision not to pay him what he wants and they probably have there reasons....maybe some of which the public may not be aware of. Bell thinks he is worth more money than his employer is willing to pay him. He has a great on the field resume and has every right to think what he wants in regards to what he is being compensated giving the violent nature of his position. Why does one side have to be right and the wrong? Can’t both have legitimate reasons for their choice? It is strange to me how in today’s society we all have to take a hard stance on one side or another. I agree with both sides as I wouldn’t want to commit a record breaking contract to the RB position and I understand Bell’s stance of wanting to be paid like the best at his position.
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