Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
The stretching of the truth to defend Bell is ludicrous. The offense has barely changed, the scoring hasn’t changed at all. They’re different backs sure but the offense is still targeting the RB at almost the same rate as if Bell was in the offense. Conner forced 12 missed tackles today, a feat only accomplished by Bell once... in his entire career. He has 3 20+ yd runs on the season, the same amount Bell had all last year. I don’t see what there is to argue. If you’re a dynasty holder of Bell, I’m sorry but you’re on the downside. What do you see a 27 year old Bell back at 240lbs doing behind a lesser OLine and an offense probably more reminiscent of Mike McCoy throwing Chase Edmonds out on the field on 3rd downs like a dumb dumb. The Steelers offense is designed to funnel targets to the RB.
Conner’s pace:
280 carries 1094 yds 3.9 ypc; 90 targets, 70 rec, 765 yds 10.9 ypc
Bell’s 2017:
321 carries 1291 yds 4.0 ypc; 106 targets, 85 rec, 655 yds 7.71ypc
There is nothing to argue. Your eyeball scouting, gut checking is wrong. If the argument is that Conner is average, that means Bell was an average back in a superior offense in 2017. So you’re telling me that in real life a team should over pay for an out of shape back that chose to ride around on jet skis during the season while his production was replicated in his absence? Or, in fantasy, that he will be the same back in some inferior offense with another year beyond the age of decline? You are angry bag holders or fan boys with an agenda.
Conner’s pace:
280 carries 1094 yds 3.9 ypc; 90 targets, 70 rec, 765 yds 10.9 ypc
Bell’s 2017:
321 carries 1291 yds 4.0 ypc; 106 targets, 85 rec, 655 yds 7.71ypc
There is nothing to argue. Your eyeball scouting, gut checking is wrong. If the argument is that Conner is average, that means Bell was an average back in a superior offense in 2017. So you’re telling me that in real life a team should over pay for an out of shape back that chose to ride around on jet skis during the season while his production was replicated in his absence? Or, in fantasy, that he will be the same back in some inferior offense with another year beyond the age of decline? You are angry bag holders or fan boys with an agenda.
Last edited by a moderator:
Gopher State
Footballguy
Memo to Bell don’t rush back, Conner is doing just fine.
matuski
Footballguy
Have people really missed the breakdowns every week on how teams are defending them this year versus last?
In short.. they get to have a linebacker cover the PIT rb, they get to play 2 deep and have the extra man on WR.
eta - I own Conner in subscriber. Neither anywhere else. They beat a bad team today.
etaa - and I'm a Lions fan.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
How long do you think that lasts at >10 ypr? You think the NFL isn’t slow to adjust? I’m anticipating the argument will be that Conner has posted a couple shoddy lines but it’s easy to do that and dismiss multiple games late in the season where Bell had less than 15 carries and was relying heavily on recieving stats. It is also easy to forget his below average games against Detroit and Indy, two bad defenses last year. NFL players are not judged by individual weeks when all is said at the end of the day. Conner has trended as profiling as similar to 2017 Lev Bell and that’s where we stand until Bell is back.
Last edited by a moderator:
matuski
Footballguy
I'm not arguing anything against Conner.
I don't find the emotional arguments compelling ("angry bag holders or fan boys with an agenda"). I don't really care aside from observing the obvious:
Bell is the better player. Teams are indeed defending PIT differently with Bell out. It really is that simple. I am not sure why people get personally invested in this.. it isn't controversial.
Last edited by a moderator:
ThanosX
Footballguy
I just traded Bell straight for Michel. What do we feel Bell's fantasy market value is currently? Is Michel an accurate reflection of his value? Caveat is I'm 1-4 and the other team is 5-0, clearly rolling the dice for a championship. Forgive me if this is the wrong thread for such questions, relatively new to posting.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Ok, what you are saying to me has no argument at all though. Do you think teams will continue to defend the same with Conner averaging what he is per catch and averaging such a high catch rate? I would actually expect regression there, even if they do, but it stands to reason if he is having such success there that the defense can no longer ignore or think of him as some below average threat out of the backfield when he’s been very good. I didn’t get to watch most of today’s game and I don’t scout X’s and O’s. I can say I haven’t seen Conner spread out wide as much as Bell or running some of the deep routes but the surface numbers kind of tell me it may not matter.
What offensive metric has suffered since Conner began starting this year vs. when Bell started?
Deamon
Footballguy
I think this is an awful trade for you. If you're the 5-0 team I could get behind it. At 1-4, if you don't win the next 2 weeks your season is over. You just made your team quite a bit worse for the next 2 weeks.ThanosX said:
EDT: I misread the post. I like this trade for you. You had to do something, if you held onto Bell you're likely not making it to 3-4 before he's back and you're likely out.
Last edited by a moderator:
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Actually even if I’m the 5-0 team no way in hell am I making that trade. At 5-0, you’re in good shape for the playoffs so I would hold onto Bell assuming he’s the stud that you expect come playoff time
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Did you read this backwards? He’s desperate and thus trading for someone who can help now. Still agree with you that it’s a bad trade as I think he can do better than Michel
Deamon
Footballguy
Ya. Was weird wording. I meant if the OP was the 5-0 team, then I could get behind him making a trade FOR Bell (not for sure, but maybe).
Deamon
Footballguy
I for sure read that backwards. If I'm 1-4 I'd definitely trade Bell for Michel in a heartbeat. Especially with a juicy matchup next week. (Unless of course he could get more for him, but I'm not so sure any team is going to give up more than Michel for Bell with so many unknowns)
ThanosX
Footballguy
Correct, I'm the desperate team. Bell doesn't do me any good next week and I have to win. I also don't think Conner is going anywhere after his performance today. If Michel was low, what do you think Bell could have fetched in a trade? Do you think Conner's performance sinks Bell's value, or does it largely stay untouched?
Deamon
Footballguy
The Connor/Bell situation could go in a million ways, it's hard for anyone to even be sure. Besides that, that's not your problem anymore as he's off your roster.
I dunno, I like Sony ROS. I think you got good value. I doubt anyone would be willing to give up an RB1 for Bell at this point, and Sony seems to be a good RB2 ROS at the least.
It as not great for VJAX and it's inaccurate as could be to say holding out worked for him. He lost close to $3M in wages that year and no evidence exists he got back what he lost on his long term deal. People can argue he saved himself from injury but that's pure speculation and we've seen a lot of players suffer massive injuries and still get big contracts. Like Allen Robinson but he's not alone. Bottom line he lost $3M in wages and an attempt to frame that as a win for him is not a legit take, it's someone arguing in the face of facts.
You know someone who won by reporting? Earl Thomas that's who. Earl Thomas makes his full pay this year, pay he'd not make if he had no reported. As you will all see when he hits FA next year his injury won't impact him one iota and in fact he'll have had a long time to rest and reduce wear and tear on his body. Like Bell and like VJAX before him had he sat out 10 games that would just be throwing money away he'll never get back.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Situation is going to suck when Bell comes back. What are they paying him, like $850k a game? They aren't going to bench him, they'll play him, but they'll also play Conner as I think they are looking forward and want him to continue to develop in their scheme.
With that, I think they'll both become highly unpredictable, it could be a hot hand situation, and suck for both Bell and Conner owners. I don't think any trade gets done for Bell either, who wants/needs him for the back half of the season. Maybe if the Texans can get competitive, they're RB situation is terrible. Green Bay I'd think would be a solid fit for his skillset, but I don't see anything like that happening, wishful thinking.
Reality is, Conner/Bell owners, we're both ####ed.
With that, I think they'll both become highly unpredictable, it could be a hot hand situation, and suck for both Bell and Conner owners. I don't think any trade gets done for Bell either, who wants/needs him for the back half of the season. Maybe if the Texans can get competitive, they're RB situation is terrible. Green Bay I'd think would be a solid fit for his skillset, but I don't see anything like that happening, wishful thinking.
Reality is, Conner/Bell owners, we're both ####ed.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
It definitely will not have a positive effect. He might lose a little in guaranteed money. I would say though, that if this was a torn ACL instead of a fracture it would have a bigger impact on his next contract.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
After the first game (getting Bell up to speed), they will play Bell almost exclusively.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm a Bell owner and I think he's the superior talent - but at this point there's no denying this. Conner has kept the offense humming at an identical place and while he's a different runner, he's an effective one. In hindsight I'm sure Pittsburgh wises that it used that $14MM on a line-backer and let Bell walk. I'm sure Bell wishes the same thing. Would the Steelers be even better with Bell? I suppose that's possible, but what difference could it really make.Bojang0301 said:
TheFanatic
Footballguy
So this is what we are doing? Anytime Conner has a good game, it's Bell is average. Every time Conner has a terrible game, it's Bell racking up Benjamins?
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
Ideally Bell gets traded and all of us holding on to both he and Conner can actually use both.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think that is unlikely. Conner has shown that he deserves to play. Assuming Bell ever suits up with the team I do not see him getting more than 50% of the snaps on average unless Conner is banged up.
squistion
Footballguy
Crap, then probably neither of them will be worth that much in fantasy.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Ed Bouchette suggests Le'Veon Bell and James Conner could be used in a committee when Bell ends his holdout.
This is speculation from Bouchette, but he quizzed players in the locker room on the topic and makes several important points. Most important is the fact that Bell is concerned about his workload, not wanting to be overused by the Steelers as he prepares for 2019 free agency. Conner has been terrific in Bell's absence, more than earning a role in this potential RBBC. Bell also struggled initially to get into football shape following his 2017 training camp holdout.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Ed Bouchette suggests Le'Veon Bell and James Conner could be used in a committee when Bell ends his holdout.
This is speculation from Bouchette, but he quizzed players in the locker room on the topic and makes several important points. Most important is the fact that Bell is concerned about his workload, not wanting to be overused by the Steelers as he prepares for 2019 free agency. Conner has been terrific in Bell's absence, more than earning a role in this potential RBBC. Bell also struggled initially to get into football shape following his 2017 training camp holdout.
The General
Footballguy
Really hope Bell gets traded. Probably a 1% chance of this happening.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Buttonhook
Footballguy
For Bell's sake, he better hope he gets traded immediately.
If he plays a few games for the PS and Conner is just as effective (which is very possible), his Top 3 RB/WR argument gets blatantly exposed, even to those teams who were previously stupid enough to consider paying him Top 3 RB money.
I would say there's a > 50% chance he gets traded before he suits up for the PS, and when that happens the only thing I'll care about is determining where we're going to spend Bell's money on the defense side of the ball.
The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Meh - no reason to put excess wear and tear on Conner this season. Run Bell into the ground, and save Conner for next season...
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Howie Roseman on line 1
Steeler
Footballguy
Do the Eagles have the cap space to pay him the remainder of his franchise tag this year?
I never thought a trade would be possible because I assumed Bell would not show up until week 10. However, if the speculation is true and he reports during the Steelers bye week he could report as early as 10/15 which would give the Steelers 2 weeks to work out a trade. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I never thought a trade would be possible because I assumed Bell would not show up until week 10. However, if the speculation is true and he reports during the Steelers bye week he could report as early as 10/15 which would give the Steelers 2 weeks to work out a trade. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Steeler
Footballguy
So then not likely to happen IMO. Bell still needs to be viewed as a rental player for the team getting him, so I'm not sure the Eagles would be willing to make so many moves to acquire him with no guarantee he'll be back in 2019.
They need to trade Foles; probably to a different team-not sure Pitt will want him. He’s the most likely option that would free up the requisite cap space. Then, they’d have to give a pick; can’t imagine Pitt would take less than a 3rd-they’d likely get a comp pick at the end of the 3rd if they lose Bell to FA.
Not impossible, but difficult, IMO.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Eagles restructured contract of Pro-Bowl DT Fletcher Cox on Friday, creating $6.5 million more of cap space this season and $11.7 million more next season, sources tell @mortreport and me. But Eagles have not pursued a trade for Le’Veon Bell and have no plans to, per sources.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1049439935000924160?s=21
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1049439935000924160?s=21
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Schefter says no...
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Eagles "have not pursued a trade" for holdout Le'Veon Bell and "have no plans to do so."
Bell singled out the Eagles as a potential destination spot for himself when he spoke to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler last week, but the Eagles don't appear to be willing to pay the Steelers' asking price and then hand Bell a gargantuan contract. With Jay Ajayi done for the year with a torn ACL, the Eagles' initial plan looks to be to lean on Corey Clement and Wendell Smallwood. Oct 8 - 7:26 PM
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Eagles "have not pursued a trade" for holdout Le'Veon Bell and "have no plans to do so."
Bell singled out the Eagles as a potential destination spot for himself when he spoke to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler last week, but the Eagles don't appear to be willing to pay the Steelers' asking price and then hand Bell a gargantuan contract. With Jay Ajayi done for the year with a torn ACL, the Eagles' initial plan looks to be to lean on Corey Clement and Wendell Smallwood. Oct 8 - 7:26 PM
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
unckeyherb
Footballguy
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Last week we had one coach say "Royce Freeman will get more carries," and another say, "Chubb has earned more playing time." So there seems to be quite a bit of coach speak going on right now. Usually this much coach speak means it's pre-season, and more specifically, right after the draft. But here we have it. I agree. This deal will probably be announced on Thursday.
ffweasel
Weasel Power
Strictly from a fantasy foosball perspective, this would be more than ideal for owners of both Bell and Conner. Specifically, me!
Similar threads
