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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
That's why I said to trade Bell and the flip the pick they get for him to AZ in a package for Peterson.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Who said "high" pick? I don't know what teams are willing to deal for him. What if the Jets (for example) think or know he wants to play in NY? Maybe they would be willing to trade a 3rd rounder for the chance to get him in the fold now and sign him to a long term deal when the season ends? If they're hot for him and they think the Steelers are going to transition tag him (Bell already said they told him they plan to) and have the right to match, it may be worth a third to them to get him now and have months to iron out the terms of a long term deal they can sign him to as soon as the season ends.
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Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I really do not think Bell will have the success on another team that he has had in Pitt. Bell is good but Connor has filled in more than adequate for pennies on the dollar. Pitt can score more than enough without Bell...Bells $$$$ spent of defense will help more than spending more on offense.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Not expected to report this week according to an unnamed team source.
Thanks, Lev. Save another $850K rather than paying it to you to sit on ### for a week during the bye.
Thanks, Lev. Save another $850K rather than paying it to you to sit on ### for a week during the bye.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, PIT was smart to not pay Bell what he wanted. I’d go so far to say that even his franchise salary is too much to pay a RB in the current NFL. (That doesn’t mean Bell isn’t worth it, but from a roster construction and salary cap perspective it’s not the best use of resources to field a team.)
Where the Steelers stumbled was not trading him when he was under contract when he had a lot higher trade value.
Even those people that loathe NE should be able to identify that the way they handle contracts hasn’t really burned them. I posted inthe Patriots thread that the 10 big free agents or players they traded over the past 2-3 years signed for a combined $550 million. That list includes Jimmy G, Cooks, Butler, Lewis, Amendola, Jamie Collins, Chandler Jones, Logan Ryan, Martellus Bennett, and Nate Solder. All good players, but all costing a lot of money.
As I posted pages and pages ago, Conner and $14 million to spend trumps Bell by a country mile in terms of the value to the Steelers, even if Bell’s production might be slightly better.
Where the Steelers stumbled was not trading him when he was under contract when he had a lot higher trade value.
Even those people that loathe NE should be able to identify that the way they handle contracts hasn’t really burned them. I posted inthe Patriots thread that the 10 big free agents or players they traded over the past 2-3 years signed for a combined $550 million. That list includes Jimmy G, Cooks, Butler, Lewis, Amendola, Jamie Collins, Chandler Jones, Logan Ryan, Martellus Bennett, and Nate Solder. All good players, but all costing a lot of money.
As I posted pages and pages ago, Conner and $14 million to spend trumps Bell by a country mile in terms of the value to the Steelers, even if Bell’s production might be slightly better.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
It's not quite that simple. Exactly when should they have traded him? Back in 2016 when he was a great player on the last year of his contract who had served a drug suspension that year and the year before? Or in 2017 when he was on the franchise tag? He hasn't signed his tender this year, so trading him was never an option this offseason.
Heading into 2018, the Steelers liked Conner but he had been inconsistent as a rookie and there's no way the Steelers could've had these expectations for him this year. He got plenty of offseason buzz, but even still, even the most optimistic fans of Conner (and I was one) didn't expect this. So yeah, ideally the Steelers could've moved Bell, but that would've had to be done last year or even the year before, because he still isn't even eligible to traded this year. Given the Steelers' aspirations the last couple years, there's no realistic way that anyone could've expected him to be traded
In a perfect world, Bell would've made his intentions to sit out clear in June or early July and the Steelers could've worked out a trade for him to go somewhere to get the contract he wants before the deadline passed. He'd have gotten paid, and the Steelers would've had the extra money to spend and some compensation. Unfortunately Bell didn't do that, and maybe he didn't even intend for it to stretch out this way until later in the offseason. Who knows.
steelers1080
Footballguy
These stats aren't an even comparable at all. For James Conner's 20 games, he has only been a starter for 6. Leveon was the starter in all of his 62 games but was entrenched when Conner was drafted. It would be much more accurate to say:
- James Conner: 6 games - 453 rush yards - 7 TDs - 257 rec yards - 118 total ypg and 1.17 TD/game (first 6 games of second season)
- Leveon Bell: 6 games - 542 rush yards - 1 TD - 251 rec yards - 132 ypg and 0.17 TD/game (first 6 games of second season)
- Leveon Bell: 27 games - 2559 rush yards - 16 TDs - 1271 rec yards - 4 TDs - 141.8 ypg and 0.74 TD/game (Last 2 years)
When comparing their first 6 games of their 2nd year in the league, Conner had 103 attempts and Leveon had 105, they essentially had the same workload with slightly better production by Leveon. Also, Leveon had 582 attempts the last 2 years giving him a ypc of 4.4. James Conner is sitting at 4.4 ypc also so far this year.
I'm a Steelers fan and a Leveon fan, I think he's a special talent and I want him to be on my team so that they have more excellent players because more good players is better than less good players. But I think the argument that some make about him not being worth it has some merit. James Conner is putting up worse, but similar production and at a small fraction of the amount Leveon is getting paid.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
So basically, we look at some guy posting a stat line against defenses that are begging Pitt to use him against the stat line of guy holding out. That's essentially what's happening here for anyone who is saying Conner is better than Bell. We can argue that his ROI is better based on contracts (and contract demands), but to say Conner is better based on stat lines proves once again that the Sharkpool has a collective memory of about 5 weeks.
I seem to remember Conner and Bell playing for the same team in 2017. Surely the more talented Conner would've eaten into Bell's playing time? No he didn't because he's James Conner and he doesn't eat into Leveon Bell's playing time because he's just not as good and anyone with vision remotely close to 20/20 would know this and pull their head out of the box score and get back to reality.
What was the quote from Big Ben about if Bell comes back? That Conner should continue to be the starter and Bell should ride the pine? No, that's not what he said is it. But, but, but, box scores.
There are two different defensive game plans going on between 2017 and 2018. Conner could not remotely produce what Bell can if he faced the same focus from the defense that Bell did.
I seem to remember Conner and Bell playing for the same team in 2017. Surely the more talented Conner would've eaten into Bell's playing time? No he didn't because he's James Conner and he doesn't eat into Leveon Bell's playing time because he's just not as good and anyone with vision remotely close to 20/20 would know this and pull their head out of the box score and get back to reality.
What was the quote from Big Ben about if Bell comes back? That Conner should continue to be the starter and Bell should ride the pine? No, that's not what he said is it. But, but, but, box scores.
There are two different defensive game plans going on between 2017 and 2018. Conner could not remotely produce what Bell can if he faced the same focus from the defense that Bell did.
apalmer
Footballguy
So, you're saying that Brett Favre didn't eat into Chris Miller and Billy Joe Tolliver's playing time because he just wasn't as good? And Arian Foster and Priest Homes didn't eat into Steve Slaton's and Bam Morris's playing time because Slaton and Morris were clearly superior? Got it.
whole-show
Footballguy
Deleted because article was fake
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Moonshine
Footballguy
Unreliable source. That picture was actually taken (and posted) months ago and this guy decided to post the same picture again to stir up some drama.
SBNation actually dissociated themselves from him as a result of this whole thing. Pretty stupid thing for this guy to do. Clown move.
https://twitter.com/weiner_amir/status/1052270176270512130?s=20
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steelers1080
Footballguy
They wouldn't have had to pay him for the Bye, that was misreported before, that's why he's not showing up this week. I would be a little surprised if he didn't report next week. Not shocked if he didn't show up, but a little surprised.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
James Conner is not Brett Favre. I see where you want to go with this, but that's apple and oranges.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I don't see what sense it makes for Bell to report before week 10 unless he wants to come in time to possibly be traded.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
Jerry Glanville didn't think Brett Favre was Brett Favre. As talented as he proved to be later, Brett Favre couldn't cut into the starter's reps his rookie year, nor could Foster or Holmes jump ahead of established starters their rookie years. If guys that talented couldn't do it behind mediocre to poor starters, why does Conner not doing it behind an All-Pro mean he can't be as talented?
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
Sure but wasn't the whole point of holding out was that risk of injury and the impact that would have on his future contract being more important than money now? By reporting 2 weeks early he is taking more risk over a measly $1.6 million.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Idk about you, but I'm beginning to think that he maybe hasn't thought this out fully.
What it boils down to is:
- He said he was coming back during the bye. But he also said he'd be there week 1.
- He probably doesn't want to get traded because his best chance of playing well this year is with the Steelers, he could suck on a new team with a terrible QB or bad line.
- He probably doesn't want to keep missing out on money.
- He realizes that Conner is playing well and if Conner keeps playing well it might lessen his value next year.
It remains to be seen how this whole ordeal shakes out, including his contract next year, but it would appear that his agent has given him poor advice.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Agreed. I really question whether the guy's heart is in football. That is not intended to be a knock but the guy made $12 million last season and could have pocketed another $20+ million this year by signing the long term contract offered by the Steelers or $14.5 million by signing the tender.
I understand he thinks he is worth more but that is still a ton of money to play a game you supposedly love.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
We both know that Running backs can learn the position WAY faster than QB's. But keep going with this line of 'reasoning.'
Nipsey
Footballguy
Who knows what he and his agent are thinking. They're making it up as they go. If I had to guess it's because he thinks there's a decent chance he'd be dealt if he showed up before the trade deadline and he doesn't want that. If he goes to another team this season and lays an egg it'd knock his potential future earnings down even more. Every week this guy lights almost a million bucks on fire as James Conner shows the entire world why the Steelers were smart not to lock up huge $$$ in Bell.
Buttonhook
Footballguy
You must not watch the Steelers much, they are one of the most stubborn teams when if comes to playing their rookies. So making a point that there's somehow a direct linear correlation between Conner (as a rookie) and Bell's carries last year and how the Steelers view their talent, doesn't hold water. It's also even less pertinent this year when comparing their talents considering how much Conner has improved from last year, particularly in pass protection and catching passes.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Hmmmm, that seems plausible. But wait. Why did Bell start 13 games as a rookie? Surely by the end of last season, Conner should've been starting since he is the far superior back. I mean, everyone here knows so much more than both the Steelers coaching staff as well as the players. This is a no brainer.
Doug B
Footballguy
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Le'Veon has put himself into a tough spot.
He didn't sign a contract in 2017 that even his agent thought he was going to sign, and then he turned down a contract this past offseason that had $20M fully guaranteed within 3 days of signing, which ultimately was only $2M less than the portion of Gurley's contract that was fully guaranteed at signing (the rest were rolling guarantees that Bell has said he doesn't like). Now he's backed himself into a corner on what he really thinks he's worth and what he'll be looking for next year as a 27 year old RB with a lot less money in his bank accounts.
He's watched Conner put up similar numbers in the Steelers' offense, and no matter what you feel about their relative talent levels, you can be sure that other teams are going to look at that (and now what a supposedly washed-up DeAngelo Williams did in that role) and have at least some reservations about how much was Bell and how much was the system and supporting cast.
He knows getting traded would be bad for him, he's already walked away from nearly $7M he can't make back, and every week he's away is another $855K.
He knows the Steelers can tell him that if he doesn't want to take a 2 week, unpaid roster exemption, he's free to wait until after week 10 to report. The team has clearly moved on, and they'll deal with him only if and when they need to.
The Steelers also have the power to say that no matter when he reports, they want the two week roster exemption, and if he doesn't like that he's free to not sign it at all... which would also be bad for Bell.
He overplayed his hand, lost millions of dollars, ticked off his teammates, has no leverage whatsoever, and only cares about his money. Not a good look for a guy who turned down $20M guaranteed a few months back.
He didn't sign a contract in 2017 that even his agent thought he was going to sign, and then he turned down a contract this past offseason that had $20M fully guaranteed within 3 days of signing, which ultimately was only $2M less than the portion of Gurley's contract that was fully guaranteed at signing (the rest were rolling guarantees that Bell has said he doesn't like). Now he's backed himself into a corner on what he really thinks he's worth and what he'll be looking for next year as a 27 year old RB with a lot less money in his bank accounts.
He's watched Conner put up similar numbers in the Steelers' offense, and no matter what you feel about their relative talent levels, you can be sure that other teams are going to look at that (and now what a supposedly washed-up DeAngelo Williams did in that role) and have at least some reservations about how much was Bell and how much was the system and supporting cast.
He knows getting traded would be bad for him, he's already walked away from nearly $7M he can't make back, and every week he's away is another $855K.
He knows the Steelers can tell him that if he doesn't want to take a 2 week, unpaid roster exemption, he's free to wait until after week 10 to report. The team has clearly moved on, and they'll deal with him only if and when they need to.
The Steelers also have the power to say that no matter when he reports, they want the two week roster exemption, and if he doesn't like that he's free to not sign it at all... which would also be bad for Bell.
He overplayed his hand, lost millions of dollars, ticked off his teammates, has no leverage whatsoever, and only cares about his money. Not a good look for a guy who turned down $20M guaranteed a few months back.
apalmer
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
You're arguing for no reason. Bell only played as a rookie because his only competition was Felix Jones and Jonathan Dwyer, and they drafted him with the intention of competing for carries right away. They didn't draft Conner with any thoughts of him taking carries from Bell, and I'm not even sure they necessarily drafted him to be their RB of the future either. They definitely knew Conner well though, because the Steelers and Pitt share training facilities.
In 2017, Conner was an overmatched rookie who didn't look especially good playing behind one of the best RBs in football. If Conner had looked this good in 2017, yes, he would've gotten plenty of playing time as Bell's backup.
In 2018, Conner has made massive improvements in his blocking, pass catching, and explosion, and his production most likely comes as a surprise to even the Steelers organization. They may have handled the situation completely different if they KNEW Conner was ready to step in the way he has, but 2017 didn't give them any indication that he could. He received buzz in the offseason, but so does everyone else.
I've stated that I think Bell is the clearly superior talent at RB simply because of his skills as a receiver, but I don't think the gap in their talent levels is so big that that Bell is worth anything remotely close to what he's asked for.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I don`t think anyone is saying he is a better RB....but the offensive numbers have not missed a beat. Connor averaging .4 yards a carry more than Bell and already has 7 TDs, Shuster and Brown are racking up TDs, receptions and yards as usual. James is averaging 16 yards a catch and the Steeler are like 4th in the NFL in scoring. Right now Bell will need 28-29 up front to make up for what he lost in turning down Steelers. Not sure Bell is getting the best advice. Injuries in the NFL are random. Bell could blow his knee out with 8-10 touches a game and be screwed.
It is all about ROI. Conner has provided close to the same production for pennies on the dollar. Bell has actually saved the Steelers millions out of his own pocket.
The offense is not the Steelers problem, it is the other side of the ball that needs addressed.
MarshallPlan
Footballguy
I have Conner and Bell. Was offered Mike Evans for Bell. Trying to think of a reason not to take it...
This entire situation was odd from the get go.
This entire situation was odd from the get go.
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creepythinman
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
He's also a year further removed from chemo, which is no small thing. He's breaking tackles and running over people now like he did as a sophomore at Pitt (ask Burfict), something he didn't do last year or the year before.
habsfan
Footballguy
It's also possible the agent has just been doing what his client is telling him to do since Bell chose not to sign that deal. Lots of real estate agents run into clients who want way more for their house than its worth. In that situation you don't tell them they're crazy, that's how you get fired. You let the market do it for you...
As a Bell owner, I hate to say this but I think his style of hesitating on runs is going to fail miserably when he's on a different team. I think he has started overdoing it and if the OL is not top notch there are gonna be a lot of hits in the backfield. As someone pointed out, Conner is averaging better YPC than Bell was last year.
zoonation
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Think so?
The Bell owner has sent me 5 different offers in the last 2 weeks.
ETA: sorry, I meant he keeps sending me package offers to take Bell off his hands. Latest one he wants Alshon & Goldin.
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zoonation
Footballguy
Yes. Things change fast. And Bell is elite. Connor is a good RB.
I see Bell hndming at least 80% when he is up to game speed.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
If your secure about the playoffs, I wouldn't make that trade. Bell will be more valuable in weeks 13-16.
Unless you're really hurting at WR.
matuski
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I would think when Bell is back, after about a week or so, he will get the huge bulk of the touches for a couple reasons. One, he will be gone next year so they will wear him out. Two, they will keep Conner fresh for the playoffs for when Bell sits again.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Haha, your improper use of statistics is annoying. The correct stats were there to compare and show that Leveon is better and has a much longer track record, why not just use them next time?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
This is Ben Roethlisberger's offense now and if you listen to what he has said over the past couple of weeks Conner is going to remain in the mix. It will really depend on 1) how quickly Bell can come up to speed and 2) the game circumstances each week. Of course all of this depends on when he reports (if at all).
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
He's going to report next Saturday - he'll get the week under his belt, paycheck for being there, & won't have to play a down.
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