Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Capella
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
I wouldn't equate the tampering that went on in the days before free agency opened with this Bell situation.
To me it's highly unlikely, borderline ridiculous to think that bell's agent is calling around the NFL, polling GMs on contact terms they'd extend to his client.
matuski
Footballguy
He may well not have called around the NFL, polled GMs... but I'm with Capella, the agent knows damn well what the market is.
There are a million + 1 ways for an agent to accomplish this without directly tampering.
Yes, after the July deadline passed, they couldn’t do a long term deal, but they were allowed to go above the $14.5M for this year.
DropKick
Footballguy
I tried to throw some numbers out there to move the discussion forward but people just want to go back and forth with the same arguments page after page.
Even if its all guaranteed, I suspect Bell wants more than 10M annually. I can't help thinking he sees himself as valuable as any other back in the league. My guess is he wants 4 years for 52M.
Just saw an article about Alex Smith’s leg and that it explains, to a large extent, why Bell sat. But then I thought (and this must have come up in the past 148 pages), isn’t there insurance for that kind of thing? What was stopping Bell from playing this year, squeaking by on $10milion until he hit free agency, but backing up his investment with a comprehensive policy? What would that have cost, under a half mil, I’d guess (the odds of sustaining a career ending or even contract-damaging injury feels under 20:1)? And how much did he cost himself in free agency by his decision? I’m guessing way, way more than a policy would cost plus he misses out on a chance for a run at a ring. Seems ill-advised.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Correct. Bell could have sustained a career ending injury, or he could have led the league in rushing and been Super Bowl MVP, most likely he would have had a typical LeVeon Bell year.
Anyway you slice it he would be $14.5 million richer right now.
I don't think the #'s are anywhere close to what you're suggesting. I'm only guessing but would think insuring 50M or more in earnings would cost way more than 1/2M to insure. He prob figured it wasn't worth knocking that cost off the 14 M to play this year.
And in early March, he expects to be significantly more than $14.5M richer.
If you would have put that much larger payday at risk by playing, that's perfectly understandable. He chose not to, and that's perfectly understandable too.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Agreed but then I don't understand why Bell was reportedly willing to if the Steelers agreed to not use the transition tag on him in 2019. Why risk injury when you're going to get paid anyway?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Don't you think it would benefit both the agent and the GM(s) to interact in an upfront and non-adversarial manner? Keeping up good relations and building trust is a huge part of "business".
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'll admit it's surely a grey area and I can't speak competently enough to comment further - but I would imagine "conversations" are taking place.
There's no gray area whatsoever. Bell and his agent can't discuss contract terms with other teams, period.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I am willing to concede that Bell is the better receiver but Conner is essentially a rookie -- he will improve. I also think his running style fits this Steelers team better than Bell and Conner is MUCH cheaper.
Barring injury to Conner I think the Steelers did quite well with the whole LeVeon Bell situation. Hopefully it turns out well for Bell next season -- I have no malice towards him.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
The Jets would be great... I fully endorse this particular rumor. No interference with other RB stocks I own (SF & Philly) and minimal competition for touches.
I posted earlier that this was a situation where I feel both sides won. That was before the reports yesterday that Pitt would use the transition tag. Assuming they use the tag & match a offer sheet, I'd have to re-think that. The Steelers' players' behavior last wednesday seems to be a crossing of the rubicon. I don't see how Bell could fit in that locker room next year. Assuming they do intend to use the transition tag, if they don't match an offer sheet and get no compensation, or they do match and Bell has to come back to those teammates, I don't think it's as much of a win for either side. What do you think?
ETA-Bell is a better receiver, but Conner (the drop yesterday not withstanding) has been impressive in that facet this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
matuski
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
I love this... very big of you.
Good to see Bell haters digging deep to find the kindness in their hearts to "concede" Bell is better than Conner at... anything.
Last edited by a moderator:
I truly don't think so in the slightest bit.
I think had that been the case Bell might have garnered more interest in the trade market, or any interest. Idea being if a team had an inclination they would be able to reach a long term deal with him they would have acquired him now. Granted that costs draft pick capital they won't have to use if they sign him as UFA but that's weighed vs fact he'd have helped a team now and something to be said for trying out the product before making a multi year investment. That's just one reason I don't think discussions have or are taking place.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
But Bell's YPC this year is 0.0. That proves that Bell is terrible and that Conner is going to the HOF. End of discussion.I love this... very big of you.
Good to see Bell haters digging deep to find the kindness in their hearts to "concede" Bell is better than Conner at... anything.
Bell blows away Conner as a receiver, not close and not as close as stats even would make it look as I do believe teams defend Conner differently then they would Bell. I don't view Bell as an elite rusher, very good but not elite. But as a pass catcher he is elite, not as dynamic an athlete as Barkley or LT but as good a route runner at the RB position as I've seen. I would both say that Bell is one of the most complete and versatile RB's I've seen in the last 20 years but also that he is NOT a generational type talent as I often see getting thrown around with him. But that's getting off subject. I just think to be a generational type talent at RB you need to be a great runner, not simply really good.
Last edited by a moderator:
How so?
I have been very intentional that I don't know what is or isn't being discussed behind the scenes.
What I do know is that what was suggested would be textbook tampering.
Dizzy
Footballguy
I'm guessing NYJ or PIT. We know (by his actions) that Bell only wants to get paid... no interest in competing for a Super Bowl... NYJ have the most $$$ to spend and no worries about having to play more than 16 games, especially if they invest all their money in a RB with that many miles on him.
I can't see any other team being able to pay him what he thinks he's worth, so I believe there's a 50/50 chance that he's a Steeler again in 2019 (at a lower price than offered in 2017).
Steeler
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Local reporters were saying the players were just having a bit of fun with it. I guess if he came back it would depend on what transpires between now and then.
I think the Steelers are just holding their cards and will keep all options open and make the decision after the season.
I saw the reports, but I also saw the videos, and I'm sure Bell did too. The situation was already bad, IMO, but that made it even worse, I'd think. Won't matter if Bell isn't back, but the application of the transition tag could change that.
I understand the idea of applying the tag to try to maximize what they can get in compensation, but everything I can find leads me to believe that IF Pitt applies the transition tag, and declines to match an offer sheet, they get nothing. From what I understand, the application of the tag would be for the purpose of extracting a pick from the team making the offer to Bell; i.e.-"give us a 3rd rounder, or we'll match the offer sheet." However, that strategy could backfire if the other team refuses to give up the pick. Pitt either has to admit their bluff and loses any compensation for Bell, or sign the offer sheet and spend a big chunk of money on a RB who they intended to use in the passing game and as a backup.
If they don't transition him, they get an extra $14.5 in cap rolled over to 2019, have a very good RB for very cheap, and get a (likely) 3rd round pick in 2020. If they apply the tag, they have to find a team willing to give up a pick AND give Bell a big deal, or risk being stuck with a back-up RB/slot receiver making big money, who very well could cause locker-room issues.
Applying the transition tag seems like a stupid decision that could mess up what turned out to be a very good outcome (thus far) for Pitt.
Good thing I didn't make the bet, because I was wrong, according to recent reports that he'd have been a receiver/back-up to Conner if he returned.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Again, the Steelers don't need to do anything now so they're just keeping all options available. It would be pretty dumb of them to commit to not using the tag on Bell in 2019 if Conner would sustain a serious injury in 2018.
Ok, then, call it a $5mill insurance policy. He plays this year and makes $14 million but pays $5M for insurance. If he gets injured, he limps away with $50 million. He doesn’t get injured and he gets a better deal in free agency (assuming he plays well) and isn’t remembered as a D-bag with a long shot of getting a ring. Legacy means something, Steeler legacy means a little more, imo, and he blew it with this decision.Tool said:
I thought we agreed this is tampering we're talking about.
Not sure why you feel the need to be a ##### all of a sudden.
DropKick
Footballguy
Yeah,thats BS. No way they would tag him at 25m SB win or not. They were just gonna run him in the ground & dump him if they won the SB. Pretty sure Ben would have retired and the teM rebuilding.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
I'm not a sports agent. But I negotiate contracts for a living, some of them associated with M&A and other activity where discussions are subject to actual force of law. SEC, FTC, and so on. Stuff that makes the NFL's rules look like fencepost signs by comparison.
I assure you that no matter what the circumstances, there are always, always backchannels through which discussion happens. Everyone knows the rules, and everyone knows how far you can take those discussions without running afoul of them, but everyone (even the regulators) acknowledges that business simply couldn't get done otherwise.
Well said, and I agree.
My only point throughout has been that direct contact between the agent and other GMs would constitute tampering.
That's somehow been misconstrued as, I don't think *any* communication has occurred, which has never been my position.
Similar threads
