Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

***** OFFICIAL Rob Gronkowski - taking his talents to TB *****


Recommended Posts

My point was not that Gronk has a greater chance of re-injury, that he somehow is injury prone, or that he will get hurt again. It was that he has already had multiple surgeries, no matter how or why he needed them (fluky or otherwise). That could take its toll and he may never be 100% again in terms of skills, speed, strength, mobility, etc. I am certainly not a doctor, so I cannot say with any certainty that he is now 94.28% of what he used to be, nor can I say that his "aging" in terms of football will be more accelerated than a typical player. But IMO, it's certainly something to consider.

I don't think you're wrong in the above, per se; I just don't think it's worth our consideration, beyond the concerns associated with each individual injury--not a collection of procedures. I view him as a guy coming off of ACL surgery. Not much more than that, personally. I don't mean to tell anyone how they should measure his risk; just trying to express how I measure it and why. Like you, I'm no doctor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trucking defenders is extremely functional. Trying and costly, but functional.

That's not seeking out. Seeking out is creating contact where it's not needed.

And who are our historic TE/WR comps that cause this concern?

If you really want to play the semantics game, I'd disagree that the seeking out only happens "where it's not needed".

My point is that he plays very aggressively, constantly trying to gain an extra yard, even when that means taking an extra hit (or 3). Welker, on the other hand, picks and chooses when to be physical and when to slide/get down. Taking more hits would seem to lead to an increased risk of injury over taking fewer hits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really want to play the semantics game, I'd disagree that the seeking out only happens "where it's not needed".

My point is that he plays very aggressively, constantly trying to gain an extra yard, even when that means taking an extra hit (or 3). Welker, on the other hand, picks and chooses when to be physical and when to slide/get down. Taking more hits would seem to lead to an increased risk of injury over taking fewer hits.

I'm curious how an offensive player can seek out contact, when it's not need it, without it hindering his objective--score. Something Gronk does on close to 20% of his receptions.

If you're point is that he "fights for extra yards"--I'd say Welker is the exception then--If I were to agree with your statement on him; that's what football players do. Gronk doesn't do it anymore that most, to my eyes. He might be able to take more hits, but I have a hard time using his demi-godly build as a negative.

Edited by Concept Coop
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bavaro for one.

I have to be honest--I didn't know who the guy was. But a quick Google search suggests that he had a degenerative knee condition, which caused his early retirement. I'd question using him as a comp for a potential Gronk break down.

Fair enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really want to play the semantics game, I'd disagree that the seeking out only happens "where it's not needed".

My point is that he plays very aggressively, constantly trying to gain an extra yard, even when that means taking an extra hit (or 3). Welker, on the other hand, picks and chooses when to be physical and when to slide/get down. Taking more hits would seem to lead to an increased risk of injury over taking fewer hits.

I'm curious how an offensive player can seek out contact, when it's not need it, without it hindering his objective--score. Something Gronk does on close to 20% of his receptions.

If you're point is that he "fights for extra yards"--I'd say Welker is the exception then--If I were to agree with your statement on him; that's what football players do. Gronk doesn't do it anymore that most, to my eyes. He might be able to take more hits, but I have a hard time using his demi-godly build as a negative.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "when it's not needed". I mean, technically it's never needed, a player could just fall down every time they get the ball.

My point is, when players are faced with a choice of whether to go down fairly easily/get out of bounds or fight, Gronk generally chooses to fight. To my eyes, he does that more than most, which leaves him open to more hits and potential injuries. You brought up the Welker comparison, I'm just saying Welker doesn't have the same aggressive style. I don't think most guys fight this hard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJh7-pxrDy4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh, wow. Seems odd no one else has mentioned this.

After visiting Pats camp, Greg Bedard of the TheMMQB.com notes that Gronkowski was "favoring his right knee" and ran with a "decent but not terrible limp."

Please put a lid on your 'voice of reason' I need others to continue to throw themselves on this grenade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh, wow. Seems odd no one else has mentioned this.

After visiting Pats camp, Greg Bedard of the TheMMQB.com notes that Gronkowski was "favoring his right knee" and ran with a "decent but not terrible limp."

Please put a lid on your 'voice of reason' I need others to continue to throw themselves on this grenade.

What grenade would that be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really want to play the semantics game, I'd disagree that the seeking out only happens "where it's not needed".

My point is that he plays very aggressively, constantly trying to gain an extra yard, even when that means taking an extra hit (or 3). Welker, on the other hand, picks and chooses when to be physical and when to slide/get down. Taking more hits would seem to lead to an increased risk of injury over taking fewer hits.

I'm curious how an offensive player can seek out contact, when it's not need it, without it hindering his objective--score. Something Gronk does on close to 20% of his receptions.

If you're point is that he "fights for extra yards"--I'd say Welker is the exception then--If I were to agree with your statement on him; that's what football players do. Gronk doesn't do it anymore that most, to my eyes. He might be able to take more hits, but I have a hard time using his demi-godly build as a negative.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "when it's not needed". I mean, technically it's never needed, a player could just fall down every time they get the ball.

My point is, when players are faced with a choice of whether to go down fairly easily/get out of bounds or fight, Gronk generally chooses to fight. To my eyes, he does that more than most, which leaves him open to more hits and potential injuries. You brought up the Welker comparison, I'm just saying Welker doesn't have the same aggressive style. I don't think most guys fight this hard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJh7-pxrDy4

Fair enough. To me, it's not that Gronk seeks contact, fights harder, or wants the yards more than anyone else. He's just more capable of staying up. If Wes Welker was 6'6" 265 and explosive--he'd look like he was fighting harder too.

I think we're both seeing the same thing, though.

Edited by Concept Coop
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really want to play the semantics game, I'd disagree that the seeking out only happens "where it's not needed".

My point is that he plays very aggressively, constantly trying to gain an extra yard, even when that means taking an extra hit (or 3). Welker, on the other hand, picks and chooses when to be physical and when to slide/get down. Taking more hits would seem to lead to an increased risk of injury over taking fewer hits.

I'm curious how an offensive player can seek out contact, when it's not need it, without it hindering his objective--score. Something Gronk does on close to 20% of his receptions.

If you're point is that he "fights for extra yards"--I'd say Welker is the exception then--If I were to agree with your statement on him; that's what football players do. Gronk doesn't do it anymore that most, to my eyes. He might be able to take more hits, but I have a hard time using his demi-godly build as a negative.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "when it's not needed". I mean, technically it's never needed, a player could just fall down every time they get the ball.

My point is, when players are faced with a choice of whether to go down fairly easily/get out of bounds or fight, Gronk generally chooses to fight. To my eyes, he does that more than most, which leaves him open to more hits and potential injuries. You brought up the Welker comparison, I'm just saying Welker doesn't have the same aggressive style. I don't think most guys fight this hard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJh7-pxrDy4

Fair enough. To me, it's not that Gronk seeks contact, fights harder, or wants the yards more than anyone else. He's just more capable of staying up. If Wes Welker was 6'6" 265 and explosive--he'd look like he was fighting harder too.

I think we're both seeing the same thing, though.

That's a good way of putting it, but it does increase the number of times he gets hit. For a guy with multiple back surgeries and an ACL that's not a good combo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really want to play the semantics game, I'd disagree that the seeking out only happens "where it's not needed".

My point is that he plays very aggressively, constantly trying to gain an extra yard, even when that means taking an extra hit (or 3). Welker, on the other hand, picks and chooses when to be physical and when to slide/get down. Taking more hits would seem to lead to an increased risk of injury over taking fewer hits.

I'm curious how an offensive player can seek out contact, when it's not need it, without it hindering his objective--score. Something Gronk does on close to 20% of his receptions.

If you're point is that he "fights for extra yards"--I'd say Welker is the exception then--If I were to agree with your statement on him; that's what football players do. Gronk doesn't do it anymore that most, to my eyes. He might be able to take more hits, but I have a hard time using his demi-godly build as a negative.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "when it's not needed". I mean, technically it's never needed, a player could just fall down every time they get the ball.

My point is, when players are faced with a choice of whether to go down fairly easily/get out of bounds or fight, Gronk generally chooses to fight. To my eyes, he does that more than most, which leaves him open to more hits and potential injuries. You brought up the Welker comparison, I'm just saying Welker doesn't have the same aggressive style. I don't think most guys fight this hard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJh7-pxrDy4

Fair enough. To me, it's not that Gronk seeks contact, fights harder, or wants the yards more than anyone else. He's just more capable of staying up. If Wes Welker was 6'6" 265 and explosive--he'd look like he was fighting harder too.

I think we're both seeing the same thing, though.

I think he does do those things more than most, but it's really not important- whether it's by choice, freakish ability, or anything else, the bottom line is that he tends to get hit more times than most since he tends to "stay up" longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter King says he saw Gronk running with a limp.

I'm not concerned. I thought he looked a little tentative on the knee back when they were saying he was good to go. I slight limp is expected. RG3 limped through an entire season.

If that's supposed to be encouraging, it's not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when they send him for an MRI I'll be concerned. The Pats aren't going to mess around with their most important offensive weapon outside of Brady. If they aren't holding him back and aren't concerned then I'm not going to worry.

Define holding him back.

My understanding is the majority of the team is participating in contact practices, but Gronk is being held back from those.

Sure that is expected, but I don't think it's fair to imply that he isn't being held back.

Edited by Leonidas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

when they send him for an MRI I'll be concerned. The Pats aren't going to mess around with their most important offensive weapon outside of Brady. If they aren't holding him back and aren't concerned then I'm not going to worry.

Define holding him back.

My understanding is the majority of the team is participating in contact practices, but Gronk is being held back from those.

Sure that is expected, but I don't think it's fair to imply that he isn't being held back.

when I'm thinking holding him back, I'm thinking about him sitting out on the sidelines and not practicing....stuff like that. From what I've heard, he and Revis and Brady have been going to an adjacent field and working together even if he isn't in the contact drills.

I would expect that they would put him in bubble wrap and treat him with kid gloves. I have to think if there was a real concerning issue with the knee they would look to shut him down, get him off the field, give him rest days, get an MRI, etc.. That doesn't appear to be the case.

Edited by Banger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good way of putting it, but it does increase the number of times he gets hit. For a guy with multiple back surgeries and an ACL that's not a good combo.

His back surgeries have nothing to do with his ability to take contact, moving forward.

As for his ACL--I don't know. He's likely going to get less than a quarter of the hits AP took coming off of his.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he does do those things more than most, but it's really not important- whether it's by choice, freakish ability, or anything else, the bottom line is that he tends to get hit more times than most since he tends to "stay up" longer.

Fair enough. I don't agree with it being a realistic concern, but he is capable of taking more hits than the less physically gifted, and, thus, does. He's likely to take more to bring down than Calvin, whose likely to take more than Dez, whose likely to take more than Green, whose likely to take more than Hunter, whose likely to take more than Desean Jackson. It isn't considered when I rank these guys as dynasty assets, however.

Edited by Concept Coop
Link to comment
Share on other sites

His back surgeries have nothing to do with his ability to take contact, moving forward.

As for his ACL--I don't know. He's likely going to get less than a quarter of the hits AP took coming off of his.

TEs generally play many more snaps than RBs, and besides just getting hit when they have the ball they get hit a ton while blocking (even if you don't consider it a hit you can obviously get hurt blocking as Gronk has). You may disagree again, but that's another thing that I think Gronk tends to go all out doing when many others do not.

Fair enough. I don't agree with it being a realistic concern, but he is capable of taking more hits than the less physically gifted, and, thus, does. He's likely to take more to bring down than Calvin, whose likely to take more than Dez, whose likely to take more than Green, whose likely to take more than Hunter, whose likely to take more than Desean Jackson. It isn't considered when I rank these guys as dynasty assets, however.

Yeah, I began by saying I don't consider it to be a huge issue, but I do think there's something to the "style of play" argument. As far as being capable of taking more hits than others, that may be true, but he's obviously not capable of taking all of the hits he does.

Good discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good way of putting it, but it does increase the number of times he gets hit. For a guy with multiple back surgeries and an ACL that's not a good combo.

His back surgeries have nothing to do with his ability to take contact, moving forward.

As for his ACL--I don't know. He's likely going to get less than a quarter of the hits AP took coming off of his.

75% of ACL injuries are non-contact injuries, anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good way of putting it, but it does increase the number of times he gets hit. For a guy with multiple back surgeries and an ACL that's not a good combo.

His back surgeries have nothing to do with his ability to take contact, moving forward.

As for his ACL--I don't know. He's likely going to get less than a quarter of the hits AP took coming off of his.

75% of ACL injuries are non-contact injuries, anyway.

73.6% of all statistics are made up
Link to comment
Share on other sites

75% of ACL injuries are non-contact injuries, anyway.

73.6% of all statistics are made up

This is part of the 26.4% that is not made up.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/04/nfl-injury-increase-2013/

West says that studies show about 70 percent of ACL tears result from non-contact injuries; our unofficial sample, showing 75 percent non-contact injuries, is on par with that figure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After taking the chance last year on Gronk and it not working out, cant believe Im considering him again this year - at an even higher cost in 2014 than 2013. However this year right now for me this has more to do with the other options available in the 3rd round than Gronk himself. If Nelson and Brown are both gone, Im not particularly high on going with a WR until the 4th round. Im not averse to going with a RB such as AlfMo, Bush, or Ellington but Im not ecstatic with it either as they dont have the upside of Gronk. Damn you Gronk for giving me headaches again this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Albert Breer considers Rob Gronkowski's (knee) outlook for Week 1 "optimistic, but not certain."

Breer says "everything is still on course," with Gronkowski, but he will not play in Friday night's regular season dress rehearsal, and likely will sit out the preseason finale, as well. Gronkowski drafters should strongly consider using a late-round pick on Heath Miller to hedge their bets. Miller looked terrific last night, and is incredibly undervalued at his 13th-round ADP.

Source: Albert Breer on Twitter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your'e going to go with Gronk then you should really go for Heath Miller later. Miller is going to get a lot of targets and has TE1 upside. Miller is a solid start if/when Gronk is out, so you can manage that all year and be one of the better teams at TE.

If Gronk is playing every game and Miller hits his upside you can trade one of them 4 or 5 weeks in and grab a waiver wire backup.

Edited by 17seconds
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are people's opinions on Gronk playing week 1? He's done everything short of playing in a preseason game, correct?

I'd guess he'll play limited snaps as he eases his way back into the lineup to his usual (healthy) workload by about week 4. Unless you have Graham, Thomas or Cameron, I'd probably start him regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are people's opinions on Gronk playing week 1? He's done everything short of playing in a preseason game, correct?

I'd guess he'll play limited snaps as he eases his way back into the lineup to his usual (healthy) workload by about week 4. Unless you have Graham, Thomas or Cameron, I'd probably start him regardless.

Teetering on the decision with him in a TD only scoring league (no WR/TE considered the same).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"(I'm) definitely not (playing) every single snap," Gronkowski added, via ESPNBoston.com. "But just get out there, get my feet wet, whatever we game-plan this week, will be good."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...