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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000205087/article/robert-kraft-pats-hope-to-have-gronk-for-full-season

Robert Kraft: Pats hope to have Gronk for full season

By Dan Hanzus

Around the League Writer

This year's Summer of Gronk will be significantly less fun than the previous edition.

Gronkowski underwent a fourth surgery on his troublesome left forearm on Monday, and now faces a lengthy rehab process. More surgery could be on tap to correct a lingering back issue.

Speaking at the NFL Spring Meeting in Boston on Tuesday, Patriots owner Robert Kraft acknowledged that uncertainty reigns in matters concerning his star tight end.

"I hope we have him for the full season," Kraft said Tuesday, according to The Boston Globe. "I know all the fans want that, and I as an owner surely do. We think long-term he still should be great, and we'll see."

Kraft said all the news was good following the fourth surgery on Gronkowski's forearm in six months. The infection is believed to be gone, a major cleared hurdle in the recovery process.

"I'm not a medical person, and things change day to day, but we were told it was as good a report as we could've hoped for," said Kraft. "That made me feel good. I've learned in the medical area you can't always predict everything, but it came out positive, and he's so positive."

It's amazing to think how much has changed since Gronkowski first injured the arm in a November win over the Indianapolis Colts. He's gone from the greatest tight end in the NFL to a legitimate question mark in the team's future.

Follow Dan Hanzus on Twitter @DanHanzus.

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Lost in all of this talk about whether he can be healthy by opening day is that he is not able to do his normal training during the offseason, so even if his forearm and back are okay by the start of the season, he could have lost a ton of strength and power, and that is not even bringing up the fact that he won't be in football shape right away (assuming training camp and preseason are both goners). In other words, his chances of having a big 2013 are not very high, IMO.

Dude, he's The Gronk.

I swear, I knew someone would post something pointless like that. :lol:

And I think the point made by Ghost Rider is valid. There will be atrophy of the muscle in his injured arm, possibly made worse due to an infection in the same area. If all goes well over the next month -- no residual infection, no new infection, bone stabilizes around the plate -- he should have 2-3 months before the season to rebuild the strength in his arm. It's unlikely he'll be at full strength by opening weekend, but there's a good argument (acknowledging that defeating jams and gaining separation could be more difficult) that he won't need a 100% recovery to be effective as a receiver.

Plus, if he has that back surgery, good luck lifting to stay as strong as usual and getting in football shape while you are recovering from that. Granted, he is such a physical freak that he could still be a huge red zone target while slowly getting into football shape, so touchdowns could still be had early, but it is still dicey.

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<p>

From today...PPR dyno:

[*]Team A gave up Miller, Heath PIT TE; Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.10;Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.12;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.05

[*]Team B gave up Smith, Alex KCC QB;Gronkowski, Rob NEP TE; Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.02

Sweet jeebus.

"I'll do it, but only if you include Smith and the 2.02."

This is one of the stupidest trades I've ever seen. And that's saying a lot.

ETA--Even better, if you click on the link, it's a salary league and Gronk's salary is $2 through 2014.

Edited by gianmarco
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Lost in all of this talk about whether he can be healthy by opening day is that he is not able to do his normal training during the offseason, so even if his forearm and back are okay by the start of the season, he could have lost a ton of strength and power, and that is not even bringing up the fact that he won't be in football shape right away (assuming training camp and preseason are both goners). In other words, his chances of having a big 2013 are not very high, IMO.

Dude, he's The Gronk.

I swear, I knew someone would post something pointless like that. :lol:

Schtick, sure. But he's a physical freak; what would need to happen for him not to put up top 3 numbers, assuming he's on the field? In my opinion - more than some rust and lack of a training camp. Again, dude, he's The Gronk.

Edited by Concept Coop
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I don't care if he is The Gronk. Five surgeries (assuming he has that back surgery) in a 7-8 month span is a major concern, no matter who you are. But feel free to overspend on him and think that just him being The Gronk will get you a championship.

There is concern, but I don't think it's him being out of shape. I think the concern is future complications with the arm. My understanding is that his doctors are optimistic, so I am too.

I place him in a category with Peterson and Calvin, physically, in that they're in my lineup if they're on the field, and on my team if others discount them.

I don’t expect everyone to agree. But, dude…

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Well, sure, if he is on your team and he is playing, you start him, without question, but again, I am not saying he will be out of shape. Re-read what I said. I questioned whether or not he will be in game shape when the season starts. There is a big difference between being in shape and being in game shape. It's why holdouts who report right before the start of the season often struggle early in the season; they simply are not in game shape. And if Gronk is not in game shape AND is getting over several major injuries, odds are that he will struggle early in the season (if he recovers in time to play Week 1).

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Well, sure, if he is on your team and he is playing, you start him, without question, but again, I am not saying he will be out of shape. Re-read what I said. I questioned whether or not he will be in game shape when the season starts. There is a big difference between being in shape and being in game shape. It's why holdouts who report right before the start of the season often struggle early in the season; they simply are not in game shape. And if Gronk is not in game shape AND is getting over several major injuries, odds are that he will struggle early in the season (if he recovers in time to play Week 1).

I agree with this for the most part. I simply think an out-of-game-shape Gronk is a top 15 re-draft player, still, in most formats. I could very well be wrong, and we'll see.

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I'm trying to sell, but not taking too much of a discount.

Can I ask what you're looking to get in return and your league settings? Trying to see what his market is.

For gronk (1.25 PPR TE / bonus 3 pts at 75 yards) and A Brown/D Wilson I'm asking for T-Rich / S Lee 2.11 / 3.03 / 2014 2nd

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This entire thread suddenly reminds me of about 2 1/2 years ago and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks was absolutely untouchable in dynasty unless you were willing to trade children and plasma. All these people were in threads talking it up and every time someone would post what they traded Nicks away from, the reactions were like "SHOCK! APPAUL! I Can't belive you traded Nicks for That! He's Young! There is Nothing like him!" and on and on.

But what we saw was that his cummulative injuries (and I think that is the key here) led to missed practice, missed time staying in shape, over compensation of one area and suddenly another is ailing and, before you knew it, despite people still hanging on and hanging on, he's been a relative disappointment for two years now.

And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

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This entire thread suddenly reminds me of about 2 1/2 years ago and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks was absolutely untouchable in dynasty unless you were willing to trade children and plasma. All these people were in threads talking it up and every time someone would post what they traded Nicks away from, the reactions were like "SHOCK! APPAUL! I Can't belive you traded Nicks for That! He's Young! There is Nothing like him!" and on and on.

But what we saw was that his cummulative injuries (and I think that is the key here) led to missed practice, missed time staying in shape, over compensation of one area and suddenly another is ailing and, before you knew it, despite people still hanging on and hanging on, he's been a relative disappointment for two years now.

And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

Nicks is still a pain in the ### to own

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And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

You could be right. But I think it's worth pointing out that he was on pace to have another all-time great fantasy season before the last injury. He's the only TE in history to open their career with 3 double digit TD seasons. He's averaged a TD a game over the last 2 years, and just under that when we include his rookie year. The hype might have been there with Nicks, but his actual value never matched Gronk's.

The hobby is so low on Gronk right now that I don’t think you can sell him, in general. I haven’t seen a deal in which I like the non-Gronk side in quite some time. I personally wouldn’t pass up Gronk’s freaky potential for any reasonable offer, given his market. And – not a doctor – but I’ll take Gronk and his injury history over someone like Nicks or DMC whose injuries all seem to be related to the same portion of the body.

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Nicks was never a rare talent, gronk is. His production on that offense for his position is like having 2 players on your roster. I think with the fact that NE just lost their best wr even bodes better for gronk.

2 years ago he went for 90-1327-17 (241 pts) and last year he was on pace for 80-1150-16 (211).

Edited by Banger
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I don't care if he is The Gronk. Five surgeries (assuming he has that back surgery) in a 7-8 month span is a major concern, no matter who you are. But feel free to overspend on him and think that just him being The Gronk will get you a championship.

It will considering league playoffs dont start week 1. Plenty of time to get all Gronked up.

Also, all these arm surgeries have not kept him from running. He wont be in "football shape", but he will be in good enough shape to be able to get into football shape a few weeks into the season

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This entire thread suddenly reminds me of about 2 1/2 years ago and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks was absolutely untouchable in dynasty unless you were willing to trade children and plasma. All these people were in threads talking it up and every time someone would post what they traded Nicks away from, the reactions were like "SHOCK! APPAUL! I Can't belive you traded Nicks for That! He's Young! There is Nothing like him!" and on and on.

But what we saw was that his cummulative injuries (and I think that is the key here) led to missed practice, missed time staying in shape, over compensation of one area and suddenly another is ailing and, before you knew it, despite people still hanging on and hanging on, he's been a relative disappointment for two years now.

And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

most people said Adrian Peterson would have a very down year in 2012 also. Lot of people sold him very cheap.

My point is the elite of the elite athletes are different than other people. Nicks doesnt fit that category.

So what exactly is your point?

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I don't care if he is The Gronk. Five surgeries (assuming he has that back surgery) in a 7-8 month span is a major concern, no matter who you are. But feel free to overspend on him and think that just him being The Gronk will get you a championship.

It will considering league playoffs dont start week 1. Plenty of time to get all Gronked up.

Also, all these arm surgeries have not kept him from running. He wont be in "football shape", but he will be in good enough shape to be able to get into football shape a few weeks into the season

Back surgery will.

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I don't care if he is The Gronk. Five surgeries (assuming he has that back surgery) in a 7-8 month span is a major concern, no matter who you are. But feel free to overspend on him and think that just him being The Gronk will get you a championship.

It will considering league playoffs dont start week 1. Plenty of time to get all Gronked up.

Also, all these arm surgeries have not kept him from running. He wont be in "football shape", but he will be in good enough shape to be able to get into football shape a few weeks into the season

Back surgery will.

It's very minor with a 3-4 week recovery time, right?

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This entire thread suddenly reminds me of about 2 1/2 years ago and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks was absolutely untouchable in dynasty unless you were willing to trade children and plasma. All these people were in threads talking it up and every time someone would post what they traded Nicks away from, the reactions were like "SHOCK! APPAUL! I Can't belive you traded Nicks for That! He's Young! There is Nothing like him!" and on and on. But what we saw was that his cummulative injuries (and I think that is the key here) led to missed practice, missed time staying in shape, over compensation of one area and suddenly another is ailing and, before you knew it, despite people still hanging on and hanging on, he's been a relative disappointment for two years now. And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

most people said Adrian Peterson would have a very down year in 2012 also. Lot of people sold him very cheap. My point is the elite of the elite athletes are different than other people. Nicks doesnt fit that category. So what exactly is your point?
You can only lead a horse to water I suppose. It's real easy to sit back and make a sly remark and reference a great success story after the fact but those stories are far and few between. Terrell Davis was the greatest fantasy force of his time and people held him after his injuries. Why don't you reference that one? Doesn't fit your quip? The point is you either see it or you don't. If you are too scared to let a guy go because you don't want to risk being "that guy" that lost on a trade then just accept that and say so. But don't ignore the facts listed above. The situation has changed and will continue to change in New England. Gronk is great but it's silly to ignore all that surrounds him and keep assuming he is going to just give more seasons like the one two years ago
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I don't care if he is The Gronk. Five surgeries (assuming he has that back surgery) in a 7-8 month span is a major concern, no matter who you are. But feel free to overspend on him and think that just him being The Gronk will get you a championship.

It will considering league playoffs dont start week 1. Plenty of time to get all Gronked up.

Also, all these arm surgeries have not kept him from running. He wont be in "football shape", but he will be in good enough shape to be able to get into football shape a few weeks into the season

Back surgery will.

I agree, but as I was saying, the arm has NOT. He is in good enough shape right now to weather that storm and get himself back into good football shape fairly early on in the season.

So as I said in my post, he will be in football shape a few weeks into the season.

Lot of people are stuck on his week 1 performance for some reason, like it is your leagues championship or something

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And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

You could be right. But I think it's worth pointing out that he was on pace to have another all-time great fantasy season before the last injury. He's the only TE in history to open their career with 3 double digit TD seasons. He's averaged a TD a game over the last 2 years, and just under that when we include his rookie year. The hype might have been there with Nicks, but his actual value never matched Gronk's. The hobby is so low on Gronk right now that I don’t think you can sell him, in general. I haven’t seen a deal in which I like the non-Gronk side in quite some time. I personally wouldn’t pass up Gronk’s freaky potential for any reasonable offer, given his market. And – not a doctor – but I’ll take Gronk and his injury history over someone like Nicks or DMC whose injuries all seem to be related to the same portion of the body.
Nicks picked right up where he left off too. I think there was one game last year where he hung 40 on the bucs. It's easy to see it in a vacuum but the bigger question now is can gronkowski come back AND sustain? That's a legitimate question because the injuries are starting to accumulate and they are not small ones.It's somewhat like Jarvis best. We all know he is flat out electric when he plays. But can he play 16? Fr best, sadly, it's obviously no. For gronkowski, his supporters win this argument easily if he can but that's the rub: he hasn't been able to lately and when you start having back surgeries that wipe out your off season training, it at the very least should compel you to think on it.
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This entire thread suddenly reminds me of about 2 1/2 years ago and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks was absolutely untouchable in dynasty unless you were willing to trade children and plasma. All these people were in threads talking it up and every time someone would post what they traded Nicks away from, the reactions were like "SHOCK! APPAUL! I Can't belive you traded Nicks for That! He's Young! There is Nothing like him!" and on and on. But what we saw was that his cummulative injuries (and I think that is the key here) led to missed practice, missed time staying in shape, over compensation of one area and suddenly another is ailing and, before you knew it, despite people still hanging on and hanging on, he's been a relative disappointment for two years now. And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

most people said Adrian Peterson would have a very down year in 2012 also. Lot of people sold him very cheap. My point is the elite of the elite athletes are different than other people. Nicks doesnt fit that category. So what exactly is your point?
You can only lead a horse to water I suppose. It's real easy to sit back and make a sly remark and reference a great success story after the fact but those stories are far and few between. Terrell Davis was the greatest fantasy force of his time and people held him after his injuries. Why don't you reference that one? Doesn't fit your quip?The point is you either see it or you don't. If you are too scared to let a guy go because you don't want to risk being "that guy" that lost on a trade then just accept that and say so. But don't ignore the facts listed above. The situation has changed and will continue to change in New England. Gronk is great but it's silly to ignore all that surrounds him and keep assuming he is going to just give more seasons like the one two years ago

For one, Gronk didnt have a major injury. He had a nagging annoying injury that lasted a long time and should not affect his future.

ALso, I never said he is going to do what he did two years ago (though he sure could). He doesn't ever need to approach that again to be an elite TE and lead a team to some championships as the TE-1 or TE-2 every year. And even in the years he does miss games his "points per game" are always going to be very high.

Of course Brady wont play forever, but I am not gonna sell low on Gronk because Brady might be done playing in 4-5 years, and because he MIGHT play with a crappy QB some day.

And as already stated, I am not referencing a success story. I was referencing an ELITE ATHLETIC SPECIMEN in Peterson. Gronk fits that mold. Those are the kinds of guys who tend to have a higher rate of success stories than the rest of the league.

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There is no such thing as minor back surgery. Anyone who has ever had back problems can testify to that.

Isn't Romo's surgery minor?? Kidding, different kind of surgery. I would call that more of a "surgery on his back" than "back surgery".

I would agree with the no such thing as minor back surgery for the most part, but NFL players are not the general public. The general public generally needs a much more significant back issue to be able to get surgery. We aren't sure if Gronk even needs back surgery yet, and won't know for a few weeks.

When we know what it is and what it's for, we can talk about it I guess. Until then, just pissing in the wind.

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<p>

From today...PPR dyno:

[*]Team A gave up Miller, Heath PIT TE; Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.10;Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.12;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.05

[*]Team B gave up Smith, Alex KCC QB;Gronkowski, Rob NEP TE; Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.02

Sweet jeebus.

"I'll do it, but only if you include Smith and the 2.02."

:lol:

That trade belongs in the "worst trade you have ever been offered" thread.

The fact that it was accepted almost sparks the need for it's own thread entirely called "how offseason news can ruin a dynasty team if you let it"

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And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

You could be right. But I think it's worth pointing out that he was on pace to have another all-time great fantasy season before the last injury. He's the only TE in history to open their career with 3 double digit TD seasons. He's averaged a TD a game over the last 2 years, and just under that when we include his rookie year. The hype might have been there with Nicks, but his actual value never matched Gronk's. The hobby is so low on Gronk right now that I dont think you can sell him, in general. I havent seen a deal in which I like the non-Gronk side in quite some time. I personally wouldnt pass up Gronks freaky potential for any reasonable offer, given his market. And not a doctor but Ill take Gronk and his injury history over someone like Nicks or DMC whose injuries all seem to be related to the same portion of the body.
Agreed. Gronk missed 5 games last year and was still the #2 TE (very nearly the #1!). If you got just 6 points a game out of your backup (about TE20 performance levels), then you got about as much VBD from your TE position (77 points) as you would have gotten from Demaryius Thomas (79 points). And that's with a zero in five weeks. Gronk could skip the entire first month of the season working himself into shape and still justify a 2nd round pick in redraft leagues.
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And in the end we DID see that even the young and great Nicks was able to be replaced by other young and great WRS. The people that sold Nicks back then got more than you can dream of getting for him. I think the same is true for Gronk (and don't get me wrong, he is awesome). But when the bar that has been set is not just a great season, but an all-time perfect storm of productivity that rivals the ages, AND he has these cummulative injuries, AND his HOF QB can't possibly be around for the next ten years, I think you sell Gronk and RELATIVELY speaking, you will be better off when you look back on it.

You could be right. But I think it's worth pointing out that he was on pace to have another all-time great fantasy season before the last injury. He's the only TE in history to open their career with 3 double digit TD seasons. He's averaged a TD a game over the last 2 years, and just under that when we include his rookie year. The hype might have been there with Nicks, but his actual value never matched Gronk's. The hobby is so low on Gronk right now that I dont think you can sell him, in general. I havent seen a deal in which I like the non-Gronk side in quite some time. I personally wouldnt pass up Gronks freaky potential for any reasonable offer, given his market. And not a doctor but Ill take Gronk and his injury history over someone like Nicks or DMC whose injuries all seem to be related to the same portion of the body.
Agreed. Gronk missed 5 games last year and was still the #2 TE (very nearly the #1!). If you got just 6 points a game out of your backup (about TE20 performance levels), then you got about as much VBD from your TE position (77 points) as you would have gotten from Demaryius Thomas (79 points). And that's with a zero in five weeks. Gronk could skip the entire first month of the season working himself into shape and still justify a 2nd round pick in redraft leagues.

In leagues that have playoffs, absolutely.

Value goes down in total points leagues though. BUt there is still a lot of value even there cause like you said, the weeks he doesnt play a backup will get SOMETHING. That is of course assuming he doesnt play week 1, which I think he will.

Edited by ghostguy123
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You can only lead a horse to water I suppose. It's real easy to sit back and make a sly remark and reference a great success story after the fact but those stories are far and few between. Terrell Davis was the greatest fantasy force of his time and people held him after his injuries. Why don't you reference that one? Doesn't fit your quip?The point is you either see it or you don't. If you are too scared to let a guy go because you don't want to risk being "that guy" that lost on a trade then just accept that and say so. But don't ignore the facts listed above. The situation has changed and will continue to change in New England. Gronk is great but it's silly to ignore all that surrounds him and keep assuming he is going to just give more seasons like the one two years ago

Your examples aren't holding much water either. His situation is nothing like Jahvid Best's or Terrell Davis'. Surely not enough to suggest we are ingoring facts. You didn't really present facts for us to ignore if we wanted to.

Dez Bryant was injury prone until he wasn't, just like Stafford, Taylor, Gore, etc. Players get hurt in the NFL. Maybe Gronk more than others. But the payoff is much greater with Gronk than the very large majority of the hobby.

ETA: And what situation is changing around Gronk? He was on pace for 16 TDs last season, too.

He might not ever repeat 2011, just like Adrian Peterson is not likely to repeat 2012. They're still elite and as likely as anyone else to turn in future historic seasons.

Edited by Concept Coop
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Offered Gronk / 3.11 for Bowe / l Miller / 2014 1st and got rejected w/ no counter. So people are scared

Apparently you are, too.

You can only lead a horse to water I suppose. It's real easy to sit back and make a sly remark and reference a great success story after the fact but those stories are far and few between. Terrell Davis was the greatest fantasy force of his time and people held him after his injuries. Why don't you reference that one? Doesn't fit your quip?The point is you either see it or you don't. If you are too scared to let a guy go because you don't want to risk being "that guy" that lost on a trade then just accept that and say so. But don't ignore the facts listed above. The situation has changed and will continue to change in New England. Gronk is great but it's silly to ignore all that surrounds him and keep assuming he is going to just give more seasons like the one two years ago

Your examples aren't holding much water either. His situation is nothing like Jahvid Best's or Terrell Davis'. Surely not enough to suggest we are ingoring facts. You didn't really present facts for us to ignore if we wanted to.

Dez Bryant was injury prone until he wasn't, just like Stafford, Taylor, Gore, etc. Players get hurt in the NFL. Maybe Gronk more than others. But the payoff is much greater with Gronk than the very large majority of the hobby.

ETA: And what situation is changing around Gronk? He was on pace for 16 TDs last season, too.

He might not ever repeat 2011, just like Adrian Peterson is not likely to repeat 2012. They're still elite and as likely as anyone else to turn in future historic seasons.

It wouldn't take much for Gronk to go from elite to merely very good. His massive value is based on those extra 6 PPG he had over the TE3 in 2011. If he starts averaging 13-14 PPG instead of 20 PPG then he's just another good TE.

Edited by cstu
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It wouldn't take much for Gronk to go from elite to merely very good. His massive value is based on those extra 6 PPG he had over the TE3 in 2011. If he starts averaging 13-14 PPG instead of 20 PPG then he's just another good TE.

Going to 13-14 PPG from 20 PPG is a 6-7 point drop. That's what would happen if he didnt' score a single TD. I guess if that were to happen he'd be just another TE. But he's the best redzone threat in the NFL on a team who scores as many TDs as anyone. I don't know why we would project that.

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It wouldn't take much for Gronk to go from elite to merely very good. His massive value is based on those extra 6 PPG he had over the TE3 in 2011. If he starts averaging 13-14 PPG instead of 20 PPG then he's just another good TE.

Going to 13-14 PPG from 20 PPG is a 6-7 point drop. That's what would happen if he didnt' score a single TD. I guess if that were to happen he'd be just another TE. But he's the best redzone threat in the NFL on a team who scores as many TDs as anyone. I don't know why we would project that.
Heh, Gronk's been so good the last two years that you could apply "Gretzky Rules" (separate "Gronk's TD Catches" and "Gronk's non-TD Catches" into two players and have them drafted/started independently) and he'd still be a quality fantasy TE. Or, in this case, two quality fantasy TEs.
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Just to give a trade that just happened

12 team dynasty 1 PPR

Team A gave(league champ): Gronk

Team B gave(runner up): Kaepernick, A. Jeffery, VD, Eifert

This is even after Crabtree's injury? That's a huge haul for Gronk either way.

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Offered Gronk / 3.11 for Bowe / l Miller / 2014 1st and got rejected w/ no counter. So people are scared

Apparently you are, too.
:goodposting:

I'd rather have the Bowe/Miller/1st side personally.

The point was, he is saying the guy was scared since he didnt accept it.........................I am just saying the poster was also scared considering he OFFERED it.

The deal itself, I prefer Gronk, but I can't call it bad or anything

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000206092/article/mark-sanchez-will-have-to-battle-for-job-with-new-york-jets

Excerpt:

2) Taking the long-term view on Gronk

The first reaction to the fourth forearm surgery for New England Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski was a positive one. Doctors replaced the plate in his arm, which meant the infection had likely cleared. Thus, no need for a fifth surgery. It also meant that the focus could rightly shift to his back. In three or four weeks, Gronk is slated to get checked out by an expert who is not employed by the Patriots, with the hope that he could relieve the "chronic" pain that has bothered him for a year.

When I asked owner Robert Kraft about it this week, his response was, "I wish I knew as much as you'd like me to know." It seems that nobody really knows. Medical opinions haven't been formed. Kraft later told reporters that Gronkowski "still should be great. We'll see."

Clearly, there is uncertainty. The team does not know how bad Gronk's back is. And with his forearm healing for another two months at least, it might be time to start moving back his timeline. Ready for training camp? Seems like a long shot, in my opinion.

Think about it. Gronkowski hasn't been able to work out and lift like he's wanted. And with back surgery possibly looming, he likely won't for a while. Maybe it's time to turn the focus to a possible stint on the PUP list and a midseason return. Thinking of this situation in those terms might help for all parties.

Edited by Faust
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Offered Gronk / 3.11 for Bowe / l Miller / 2014 1st and got rejected w/ no counter. So people are scared

Apparently you are, too.

a>

I'd rather have the Bowe/Miller/1st side personally.

The point was, he is saying the guy was scared since he didnt accept it.........................I am just saying the poster was also scared considering he OFFERED it.

The deal itself, I prefer Gronk, but I can't call it bad or anything

The point I was making was that owners out there are scaried to take the risk, the guy had placed Bowe on his trade block and is looking to get a little younger. Should of been an easy accept or atleast counter followed afterwards.

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Offered Gronk / 3.11 for Bowe / l Miller / 2014 1st and got rejected w/ no counter. So people are scared

Apparently you are, too.

a>

I'd rather have the Bowe/Miller/1st side personally.

The point was, he is saying the guy was scared since he didnt accept it.........................I am just saying the poster was also scared considering he OFFERED it.

The deal itself, I prefer Gronk, but I can't call it bad or anything

The point I was making was that owners out there are scaried to take the risk, the guy had placed Bowe on his trade block and is looking to get a little younger. Should of been an easy accept or atleast counter followed afterwards.

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The point I was making was that owners out there are scaried to take the risk, the guy had placed Bowe on his trade block and is looking to get a little younger. Should of been an easy accept or atleast counter followed afterwards.

And again, my point was, YOU seem to also be scared, but for some reason you are acting surprised about the other guy turning down your offer.

Clearly you prefer the other side of it otherwise you would not be offering it. Apparently he does, too. Why are you surprised he agrees with you??

I HOPE HOPE HOPE Gronk does in fact need back surgery, and even goes on the PUP list. The way people value players in the "now" has helped me get players/picks much cheaper when they don't provide an immediate return, and helps me greatly not too long after.

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The point I was making was that owners out there are scaried to take the risk, the guy had placed Bowe on his trade block and is looking to get a little younger. Should of been an easy accept or atleast counter followed afterwards.

And again, my point was, YOU seem to also be scared, but for some reason you are acting surprised about the other guy turning down your offer.

Clearly you prefer the other side of it otherwise you would not be offering it. Apparently he does, too. Why are you surprised he agrees with you??

I HOPE HOPE HOPE Gronk does in fact need back surgery, and even goes on the PUP list. The way people value players in the "now" has helped me get players/picks much cheaper when they don't provide an immediate return, and helps me greatly not too long after.

I don't view asking for Bowe, Miller and a 1st as being scared, more like being smart. Anything could happen between now and the start of the season. Maybe that isn't a good offer to you but to act like Gronk has 0% risk and is untradeable sounds like denial.

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Just to give a trade that just happened 12 team dynasty 1 PPR Team A gave(league champ): Gronk Team B gave(runner up): Kaepernick, A. Jeffery, VD, Eifert

This is even after Crabtree's injury? That's a huge haul for Gronk either way.
Just traded for Gronk. Now might be the only time you can land him at a semi discounted price. Traded Michael Crabtree (post injury), Jared Cook, Alshon Jeffery, and Rookie Pick 12 for Gronk. I am happy!
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NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports the Patriots "(don't) know" how serious Rob Gronkowski's back injury is."I wish I knew as much as you'd like me to know," were the words of owner Robert Kraft. Rapoport believes the Pats should consider placing Gronk on the reserve/PUP list, which would hold him out for the first six games of the season. Depending on how Gronk's expected back operation goes, they may not have a choice. May 24 - 12:31 PM

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Just to give a trade that just happened 12 team dynasty 1 PPR Team A gave(league champ): Gronk Team B gave(runner up): Kaepernick, A. Jeffery, VD, Eifert

This is even after Crabtree's injury? That's a huge haul for Gronk either way.
Just traded for Gronk. Now might be the only time you can land him at a semi discounted price.Traded Michael Crabtree (post injury), Jared Cook, Alshon Jeffery, and Rookie Pick 12 for Gronk.I am happy!

You stole him for that. Congrats.

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