What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

North Korea thread (3 Viewers)

Weebs210 said:
Can you link some of those "facts" you claimed.
Click to expand...
Which part do you dispute?

This was, by what has already been posted, a liquid fueled test site.  Fact.

Fact...NK already has functional missles.  Do you dispute that?

NK has tested solid fuel weapons.  Another fact.

As posted already...they have not denuclearized and are wanting more to do so.

What is it you dispute?

 
sho nuff said:
Which part do you dispute?

This was, by what has already been posted, a liquid fueled test site.  Fact.

Fact...NK already has functional missles.  Do you dispute that?

NK has tested solid fuel weapons.  Another fact.

As posted already...they have not denuclearized and are wanting more to do so.

What is it you dispute?
Click to expand...
Oh, he hasn't really foolowed the issue so he can't really say but there is that one niggling unicorn with faerie dust on it that tells him it's gonna be alright, Trump really nailed it, hard.

 
Bucky86 said:
“Diplomats say the North Koreans have canceled follow-up meetings, demanded more money and failed to maintain basic communications...” “demanded more money” “more”
Click to expand...
As part of the talks NK wanted money to pay for the hotel.  Maybe he wants to stay at the Ritz again?

 
Joe Summer said:
I'm trying to imagine an alternate reality where a former hostage dies while Obama is president, and instead of attacking the country or instituting crippling sanctions, he submissively flies to them to meet with their leader, then praises him as strong, talented and honorable, then gets virtually nothing in writing, then lies about getting back the remains of dead soldiers, then allows North Korea to basically have free reign with their nuke program without any type of formal observation.

That's pretty much "Red Alert" conditions for conservatives. Congress would be holding hearings and demanding investigations on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
The sanctions are still in place.  And I'm not sure how he's allowing free reign more than has been the case for the last decade.  You're gonna have to show your work there, as that one is a honker (i.e. if you were in Russia you'd be fined).

 
So apparently we are starting to get some of the US soldiers' remains back tomorrow. I'm sure you guys will be happy about this(You won't be because Trump)

NYT

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Weebs210 said:
So apparently we are starting to get some of the US soldiers' remains back tomorrow. I'm sure you guys will be happy about this(You won't be because Trump)

NYT
Click to expand...
That’s NYP, not NYT, but anyway here’s the source report.

>>North Korea seems to have completed preparations for the transfer of the remains of American service members killed in the Korean War, as it has received wooden boxes from the United States, a diplomatic source in Seoul said Thursday. 

"North Korea recently took two truckloads of wooden boxes to be used for the remains repatriation. It's expected to hand over the remains on July 27 as agreed upon," the source said.

...The U.S.-led United Nations Command had stored the boxes at the border village of Panmunjom for weeks.<<

>>Earlier this week, CNN reported that a group of U.S. Defense Department officials is expected to visit South Korea soon to assist with the remains return. 

They apparently include representatives from the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency (DPAA), who will likely travel to the North for an initial inspection. 

The U.S. is planning to pick up the remains at the North's Kalma Airport along its east coast and move them to Osan Air Base, south of Seoul, by plane, where a ceremony is to take place, according to the source. 

The remains will then be airlifted to a forensic lab in Hawaii.<<

- Obviously it would be fantastic.

 
So if this ends up being confirmed as US soldier remains will you guys consider this progress with NK? Dismantling sites and no testing wasn't considered progress so I'm just trying to gauge here.

 
Weebs210 said:
So if this ends up being confirmed as US soldier remains will you guys consider this progress with NK? Dismantling sites and no testing wasn't considered progress so I'm just trying to gauge here.
Click to expand...
Uh yes I’d consider that an item of progress. I haven’t read the story about the dismantling of the site yet but that sounds promising. There are a lot of problems after that needless to say.

I think Pompeo’s testimony yesterday where he split out US policy from Trump’s was interesting though. I won’t get into further detail but obviously what Trump has said is pretty hollow nonetheless, but compare that vs Pompeo’s statements which are not.

 
Matthias said:
How much are the bones of long-dead US soldiers worth? How much do they cost NK to give up? How likely is it that they're legit? Do you think the Trump Administration is going to DNA test them?

I really don't GAF.
Click to expand...
So you went from calling out Trump based on the remains not being delivered to saying you don't GAF about the remains of US soldiers'. Classy as always.

 
Matthias said:
Bones which might be American soldiers. Might be foreign soldiers. Might be Korean locals. Might be animals. They've done this in the past and the North Koreans aren't the most good-faith dealers. And even if they are American soldiers, who knows who they were.

From a dealmaking standpoint, there's large arbitrage here. What value do the North Koreans put on these bones? Nothing. Other than their bargain value. They have no use for bones. So what sort of value should the US have to pay to get them back? From an economist POV, the Koreans should accept anything more than $1 for them since $1 has more value to them than the remains do. They'll hold out for more, because they view it as we'll pay for more. But there's still a rather low limit at which a good dealmaker would negotiate their return. And frankly I'd rather that we bargained for things that help people right now. To reduce the threat of nuclear weapons right now. To make the world safer right now.

But hey, slap a label on it. Call it a US soldier. Wrap it in a flag. And let people cheer on a "victory" no matter what it cost us or how much we did, or would have had to, give up.

Hard truths aren't always easy to swallow. That's what makes them hard truths versus happy propaganda.
Click to expand...
So you didn't even read the article? Sounds about right. Let me help you though. 

The remains will be airlifted to a forensic lab in Hawaii.

 
Weebs210 said:
So if this ends up being confirmed as US soldier remains will you guys consider this progress with NK? Dismantling sites and no testing wasn't considered progress so I'm just trying to gauge here.
Click to expand...
Yes, this would be a good thing for closure and a step in the right direction 

 
Matthias said:
What's worth more? The remains of 200 soldiers or 1 live child? How much did we give for supposedly getting the former? How many would it save of the latter?
Click to expand...
Why do we have to measure their worth? They both seem important.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Weebs210 said:
So you went from calling out Trump based on the remains not being delivered to saying you don't GAF about the remains of US soldiers'. Classy as always.
Click to expand...
I’ll say it.  If these are “remains” meaning the bodies or pieces thereof of US soldiers who died during the Korean War I will gladly say I was wrong and be genuinely puzzled how they were kept. 

If it’s a bunch of boxes full of personal effects like uniforms and lighters, that isn’t really something that gets me really excited, though surviving family will no doubt be glad to get them back. 

 
Henry Ford said:
I’ll say it.  If these are “remains” meaning the bodies or pieces thereof of US soldiers who died during the Korean War I will gladly say I was wrong and be genuinely puzzled how they were kept. 

If it’s a bunch of boxes full of personal effects like uniforms and lighters, that isn’t really something that gets me really excited, though surviving family will no doubt be glad to get them back. 
Click to expand...
You have definitely made it clear that you don't think any remains still exist. We will have to see. Yes the families will gladly take the personal effects if that is all that is left. 

 
Weebs210 said:
You have definitely made it clear that you don't think any remains still exist. We will have to see. Yes the families will gladly take the personal effects if that is all that is left. 
Click to expand...
Of course.  As would I if it were one of my relatives. 

But those aren’t “remains.”

 
We need a title change @timschochet

for a guy that has "blown it" with North Korea, Trump sure is getting a lot of concessions:

-3+ dismantled nuke test facilities

-dismantling of the Propaganda Speakers on the DMZ

-and now more remains of fallen War vets

All while keeping US Sanctions on NK and leaving troops and supplies in SK.

If that's blown then sign me up.

 
Matthias said:
A bit surprising. I actually feel the reverse. One of my grandmothers I'd play board games with as a kid. And when she died, I took her Scrabble board. (I also wanted her cookie jar, which she always kept stocked, but that went missing before I showed up). My other grandmother always had a little stiching of, "Uff Da" (Norwegian version of Oy Vey) hanging in her house and out of her belongings, I took that and hang up wherever I move to. Those mean a whole lot more to me than where their caskets are buried.
Click to expand...
Please go tell this riveting story to the families who want the remains back. Record it as well please.

 
Weebs210 said:
-3+ dismantled nuke test facilities

-dismantling of the Propaganda Speakers on the DMZ
Click to expand...
Is it three, or two? I think I have read about two.

I think the DMZ speakers thing was a result of SK-NK negotiations, but it is a nice result. As a side note the poor guys on both sides must be sick and tired of those things, even their own.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Weebs210 said:
-and now more remains of fallen War vets
Click to expand...
More from when? From the first time when Clinton brought some home?
Click to expand...
Fwiw:

North Korea has already handed back the remains of 340 soldiers since 1990, transporting them via the demilitarized zone.
Click to expand...
It's not a first, but honestly that doesn't matter. Hopefully they prove to be genuine. Though again Trump aside it's somewhat creepy that NK must be holding these in boxes to be dolled out for cash or whatever it is they demand for them. I'm sure they have much more.

 
Weebs210 said:
We need a title change @timschochet

for a guy that has "blown it" with North Korea, Trump sure is getting a lot of concessions:

-3+ dismantled nuke test facilities

-dismantling of the Propaganda Speakers on the DMZ

-and now more remains of fallen War vets

All while keeping US Sanctions on NK and leaving troops and supplies in SK.

If that's blown then sign me up.
Click to expand...
X2

 
Weebs210 said:
Regardless it is progress. Also, about the remains...You don't consider bones remains? Those should not have decomposed yet.
Click to expand...
In 60 years in a jungle with an average 60% humidity?  Yes, they should have.  We've gotten remains back from Vietnam where the only remaining human dna from a grave was in a small piece of a jawbone.

 
Weebs210 said:
Man it's like a ghost town in here today.
Click to expand...
Just an observation: live in the anti-MSM, anti-facts world, wither in the anti-MSM, anti-facts world. It's really Trump followers who should be posting this information. I think you posted something from NYPost, but claimed it was from the Times but it wasn't, and I posted the actual news source. If you do that sort of thing it undercuts your points, that's all.

 
North Korea Has Handed Over The Remains Of US Soldiers Killed In The Korean War

The Pentagon said 55 cases of remains were transferred from North Korea to the US and departed on a US military plane.

...North Korean officials handed over 55 cases of remains to the US, a Pentagon spokesperson told BuzzFeed News. The plane later arrived at Osan Air Base in South Korea where a formal repatriation ceremony will be held on Aug. 1.

...

According to the Pentagon, Pyongyang had indicated for a while that it has the remains of 200 of US service members — a number that Trump cited over a month ago when he falsely claimed that the remains had already been sent back.

Between 1990 and 1994, the US recovered the remains of as many as 400 people in North Korea. North Korea returned 229 caskets with remains of US soldiers between 1990 and 2005, according to Defense Department data. The last time North Korea handed over remains was in 2007, when Bill Richardson, a former UN ambassador and then-New Mexico governor, secured the return of six cases.

Many of the caskets transferred in the past contained “comingled” remains, according to the DPAA, meaning that they also contained remains of persons of other nationalities. More than 36,000 US troops died in the war from 1950 to 1953.
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
sho nuff said:
It’s sad that these soldiers are used as pawns in political games by NK and others...and are used to “spike the football” to want to cheer look at Trump did.
Click to expand...
The horrific thing is I suspect the Norks know where our (and others') soldiers are buried and they have almost a limitless supply of graves to go dig up in exchange for cash, or concessions or whatever.

 
Weebs210 said:
We need a title change @timschochet

for a guy that has "blown it" with North Korea, Trump sure is getting a lot of concessions:

-3+ dismantled nuke test facilities

-dismantling of the Propaganda Speakers on the DMZ

-and now more remains of fallen War vets

All while keeping US Sanctions on NK and leaving troops and supplies in SK.

If that's blown then sign me up.
Click to expand...
Well you were signed up a while ago so you being impressed doesn’t impress me.

And I’m not. Let’s put the remains issue aside-that’s a nice story, and important to the families, but in the larger question of North Korea’s future role in the world it’s entirely irrelevant. 

The reason I wrote that Trump blew this is because there was a chance at a real agreement, with specific promises made on each side and penalties if those promises aren’t kept- much like we had with Iran until Trump stupidly tore that up. But this would have taken an real diplomatic effort. Instead Trump settled for a quick photo op and a few generalities. North Korea can claim to dismantle whatever it wants but if we have no means of inspection then we only have their word for it, which isn’t worth anything. 

So I’ll keep the title. But thanks for the input. 

 
Matthias said:
Hey. Trump got something which there was no reason the other side had any reason to care about giving it up, the only value is emotional, and he can declare the victory without any regard as to whether it actually is or not, since it will take years to determine.

This is like the best thing that they can promote all year.
Click to expand...
Sad how little you care about fallen soldiers. You should take a step back and reevaluate.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Max Power
Every branch of the U.S. military is struggling to meet its 2022 recruiting goals
3 4 5
Replies
203
Views
6K
Max Power
Max Power
GordonGekko
Votes Over "Inclusion" - Transgender Women Must Register For US Selective Service (Draft), But Not Transgender Men (10/11/22 18:47 PST)
Replies
4
Views
434
FairWarning
FairWarning
Gopher State
  • Poll
Joe Biden as a war president
2 3 4
Replies
175
Views
4K
The General
The General

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Top